Earth's future under a cloud -Climate prediction most comprehensive so far

[bennywhale]

More than half of the world's major forests will be lost if global temperatures rise by an average of 3C or more by the end of the century, it was claimed yesterday. The prediction comes from the most comprehensive analysis yet of the potential effects of human-made global warming

Dr Scholze's work shows that this so-called "tipping point" could arrive by the middle of this century. His scenarios echo research from the UK's Hadley Centre, a world leader in climate change modelling. In a report published last year called Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change, scientists at the centre predicted that a 3C rise in average temperatures would cause a worldwide drop in cereal crops of between 20m and 400m tonnes, put 400 million more people at risk of hunger, and put up to 3 billion people at risk of flooding and without access to fresh water supplies.

He added that a rise of 3C was not inevitable. "We can't just do what we do at the moment, what we call business as usual. We have a few decades - we have to do something before 2040."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1844789,00.html

What are we going to do about this people????
Any suggestions????
Where's the anger for this?????

[soothsayer]

1. We can certainly reduce human global warming, but what about

natural global warming (and freezing) cycles? Not sure we can do much about them.

[trotsky]

3. Let's control those factors we can.

Clearly right now we are the #1 contributor to the problem.

[bennywhale]

6. No we can't. But that is the natural cycle

of temperature fluctuatuion which takes place over thousands of years.

Man made global warming is taking place over decades. The planet and people won't be able to react. Billions will be at risk from famine, eco-systems will collapse.

in previous cycles, animal and even plants had the time to adapt over thousands of years.

The tipping point we are approaching will produce rapid and catastrophic climate change endangering nations, socities and civilistaions themselves.

[whosinpower]

2. I'm no scientist

But, nature has a way of overcoming. And if the increase is slow and moderate - nature WILL adapt. Will we? That is the question.

[bennywhale]

7. The increase is not going to be slow and moderate, please

read the article, it is going to be rapid and catastrophic.

Civilisations and eco-systems wil have relatively no time to react as the droughts, famines, floods and rising seas consume us.

we are approaching a tipping point that may change the face of the earth as we know it. It may not, but we can't be complacent and take that risk

[Javaman]

15. Of course nature has a way of over coming, it will kill off the humans...

remember, we are part of nature.

[On the Road]

26. Natural Cycles Resulted in "Snowball Earth"

in the distant past. There's nothing sacrosanct about the current average temperature, and nothing to assure that it will stay in equilibrium. The same greenhouse effect that's raising temperatures slightly on Earth has raised temperatures on Venus by eight hundred degrees.

[leftchick]

4. The USA could quit ignoring the issue as a first step

but then that would mean a Democratic president.

[acmejack]

5. We all have a rough idea of what is required.

Do we have the political will to implement it? Or will it be like the current Administration, it will "damage the Economy"? They'd obviously rather be rich now and to hell with the future.

[nodehopper]

19. "apres moi, deluge"

that should be their motto. that is certainly their policy.

[Teaser]

8. What are we going to do?

Why, we're going to do nothing. And we're going to cause a lot of death and destruction.

There really isn't much hope. We're up against the limitations of our cerebrum, folks. Better hope we evolve right quick, because our short-term optimized brain wasn't made for this kind of medium term to long term problem.

[bennywhale]

10. You must take personal responsibility

and take actiona and pressure your elected representatives and the businesses you consume from.

please act

[Teaser]

29. done it to death.

but we're still doomed.

[bennywhale]

33. Thats the spirit. IOf all else fails

blind optimism

[Karenina]

36. Here ya go, Bennywhale! An oldie but goodie...

[dipsydoodle]

9. Plant trees which grow deep roots.

At the risk of oversimplying this - tree roots help ground retain moisture and hence prevent run off of rain water into rivers and then into the sea.

Now go here and read all of the postings when you have the time : http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=115

One of thr most recent highlighted problems concerns drought in the Amazon - the trees may not stand a further year of drought. Lose those forests and the problems of climate change will be brought forward.

[LiberalEsto]

32. I'll plant orange trees in Maryland

Maybe bananas, avocados, lemons, and other warm-climate fruit trees will do well here in a few years.

Seriously speaking, I've been planting like mad in recent years. Tree saplings and shrubs in every available space on our 1/3 acre. They all absorb CO2 and release oxygen.

[paparush]

11. Bush: What does that foot doctor, Dr. Sholz, know about global warmings??

[theophilus]

12. Don't be a YOYO! Fight Catastrophic Climate Change!!!!!

Job 1: Quit squeezing out kids! Adopt, adapt and impove! The world needs to pull together on this one. Sorry hawks, but the time has come to beat that sword into the ploughshare thingy!


The GOP has become the “YOYO” party………..”You’re On Your Own”. They would love to undo every liberal/progressive accomplishment of the last century. No sir, I don’t like it! I am against the YOYO party. I want to form the Anti-YOYO party. The emphasis will be liberal/progressive and environmental. The symbol will be a Tree.
I want all of the citizens of this country to know that they are NOT on their own. The government can care and the government can be made to work to the benefit of all. It will take some work, but it CAN be done. It will need a Rooseveltian program to save the country and, indeed, the WORLD. Climate change will kill us all. We CAN reverse what we have caused if we hit it quick and hit it hard. Details are in the Anti-YOYO Environmental Party platform. Let’s look at some of the planks, shall we?


1. Plant trees in every possible open space between the Mississippi and the East Coast. We need to restore the old ability of a squirrel to go from the Mississippi to the Coast without setting a paw on the ground. The trees will tie up carbon and put oxygen into the air. Fruit and nut trees should be planted in all public areas and along highways, etc. The populace is welcomed to use the fruit for their personal use. Animals will use the rest. Grassy areas need to be done away with except for designated natural meadows for wildflowers, etc. No lawns will mean no mowing. Think of the gas it will save. The shade from the trees needs to cover everything possible….houses, roads, buildings. There will be less runoff containing fertilizer and pesticide so the water will be cleaner.

2. Out west there needs to be a massive deployment of windmills for electric power generation. Farms that are struck with drought can still hold windmills and generate electricity. The farmers will be paid by power companies for excess power produced. A portion of that money will go to pay the government for the wind turbines, etc.

3. Out west and wherever possible there needs to be solar panels put on every structure that is above the trees or in the open to generate power. Same principle as wind mills, the owners will sell power to the electric companies and repay the government with a portion of the profit.

4. Plants will be built by the government, or private industry if they will do it right, to produce seedlings, build wind turbines, and build solar panels. Jobs will be significant and carry full health benefits. More jobs can be created to plant trees, tend to the forests, and help distribute needed parts of the process.

5. Organic farms, using the minimum pesticides and fertilizers need to be established and employ as many as possible with good salaries and health benefits. The food will be sold directly to the public at the lowest prices possible.

6. Universal single payer healthcare (Surgically Remove the Middle Men). This will allow a burst of entrepreneurial spirit never before seen. There will be more tax dollars taken in and the middle and lower class will do better and better. Believe me, it can work.

Some things we will ALL need to do:

1. Be happy with less. We need to realize and point out that GREED is a planet killing problem. For the religious, it is a mega bad SIN.

2. We have to be willing to tax the Corporations and the Rich in a fair way. They need to all give their fair share to save our country and our world. (They won’t be making much when their customers are all dead. To live a few months/years longer than the vast majority of the world is a silly goal.)

3. We must embrace environmentally friendly technologies, whether they are our first choice or not. Once again, your hummer won’t be much use when you’re dead or out of gas.

4. Stop wars of aggression and aggrandizement. Everyone should have clean water, clean air, AFFORDABLE and dignified healthcare, and a life suitable to pursuing happiness.

Make Government actually WORK for the people. Make it accountable and make it honest. (We might have to tinker with the Constitution a bit, but mostly we just need to enforce laws we already have.)

Possible slogans:

End War and Save Our Planet
Less is More (At Least You’ll Be Alive!)
Greed Kills Planets
Greed Kills People

Remember: If we do nothing, we are going to have to change. There just won’t be nearly as many of us to do it. Let’s make the choices now, hard as they may be, and live to pat each other on the back!

[sweetheart]

13. "Be happy with less."

This is just a non-starter, for all the altruism.

A tarriff system of taxes imposed on the prices of economic life, that includes the
full public-goods costs, so that by being merely economic and rational, your
objective in "be happy with less" is achieved economically rather than through
rules, rationing or legislation, the leftist authoritarian solutions.

I love your ideas and agree with your approach, but without fixing the
federal reserve and the monetary system that favours wars and exploitive
development externalizing all public interests, the can be no goodwill.

A lot of people want a new constitution around here, the neo-chartists, and
more power to 'em.

[theophilus]

16. You are right, up to a point. There needs to be a rallying of the

people around this issue. I know quite a bit about the subject but I couldn't understand much about the concepts you just threw out and I shudder to think what "Joe Six Pack" would get out of it. Let my plan work with the folks to get the ball rolling and you go and tinker with the important governmental stuff behind the scenes. It might all work out that way.

Letting the "market" or economic forces deal with problems seems like a loser to me, though. Look where it has gotten us at this point. People understand "sacrifice" and have done it many times, if asked to do so. You don't need a lot of regulation to get the people off the tracks if they can SEE and HEAR the train coming.

[sweetheart]

18. I'll retry that

"public goods" is the way economics talks about free things like "silence", "air", "ocean water".

These are at risk because they are perceived by our economy as "free". This is because of failed
market intervention on behalf of the public, when a tax should be applied to make polluting industries
pay their debt when you purchase from them.

And example to joe sixpack, is that cotton shirts should include the costs of the subsidy given from the
taxpayer to recover it at the cash register. Gasoline should charge at the pump for the wars, the pollution
and all the public goods that are paid for by joe sixpack, but only profit oil executives.

Our capitalist system is largely based on finding a public goods externality you don't have to pay for,
and exploiting it. This be true of most resource industries like forest and mining, coal burning, forest burning...

The problem is not that capitalism or markets are not working, but they are not accomodating the real
prices, and if you really did pay for all the wars at the gas pump, you wouldn't be driving a gas vehicle.

You can't make people behave with less, but you can make a fair resource allocation system where people
spend their relative social merit to achieve a just and equal solution through markets regulation.

The subsidies to gas and war are killing us, as you point out, and they just won't stop on their own
unless people see how expensive they REALLY are.

[amandabeech]

28. Don't forget bushes and other ground cover.

No, not the bozo in the White House and the rest of his moronic family.

Lower growing perennials and annuals provide good food and cover for birds and animals. They also trap water in their many stems and rougher lower branches.

[paparush]

35. Didn't some guy named Jesus say "give everything you own to the poor"

That guy Jesus...he said the wackiest things like:

LOVE your enemies
PRAY for those who persecute you.
Treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated.

That guy Jesus, he was just FULL of crazy talk...

[YankeyMCC]

14. People have to recognize national governments

are not going to act. It's not in their interest yet...they will not act until it starts eating into the profits of the corps and industries they are supporting. And that will probably be to late.

There needs to be a people's environmental movement much like the populist labor movement in the late 19th early 20th century. Get people to make changes in lifestyle, provide community support to people for making the most difficult lifestyle changes and put pressure on the profits (boycotts, changing purchasing patterns, etc...) industries and national governments.

[theophilus]

17. Amen. It's gonna have to come from the grassroots. I believe Al Gore

realizes this and that is why he is trying to raise consciousness on the movie and book level. The corporate govt. ain't gonna do squat until they are scared into doing it. This is too important to leave to the Corporate gov't. People Power!

[YankeyMCC]

21. Unfortunately

I'm not optimistic about it happening.

And as evidence of my pessimism look at the number of votes this thread has? 8? I know there's a lot of important things going on but Nothing is more important in terms of the lives of everyone on the planet than climate change.

:shrug:

[bennywhale]

22. I constantly try to get this issue going on DU but

like you say its difficult.

it ain't exciting, and it ain't simple.

Its a complex issue that needs serious debate, that is why i keep plugging away.

We need to begin debating this now, the sad thing is, no-one seems to give a shit.

[theophilus]

23. I'm only optimistic because it is, "Change or Die!".....of course

it is also, "Don't Change and Die". So, anyway.....But, yes, this is THE MOST IMPORTANT subject on DU or anywhere but a miniscule amount of attention is being paid to it. This will change but will it be too late? Everything we talk about should be viewed through the lens of our planetary collapse: How does Ned Lamont feel about Climate Change? Look at the environmental disaster the Israeli/Hezbollah war is creating! The money we're pouring into Iraq needs to be available to stop CO2 production and to help with the (soon to be) Americans threatened with death by heat, cold, starvation, etc.

You see the point. Others don't seem to be looking.....

[YankeyMCC]

25. Exactly n/t

[stubtoe]

27. We need a leader to get us organized.

I really do wish Al Gore would run in '08.

[leftofthedial]

20. How about that American Idol?

And I think this is finally gonna be the Bears' year.

Damned Democrats want to take my gun away and force my wife to have an abortion.

[halobeam]

24. It is sad that this thread only has nine votes.

Excellent ideas are put out and disappear, until the next nine vote thread comes along...and so on. I can see both sides, the optimistic and the pessimistic accounts of where we are headed. I believe we can do it, I'm not sure we will do it, therefore if we didn't do it, we obviously couldn't.. so really, can we?

It's so messed up. It seems like there are ten #1 priority issues that need addressing simultaneously. Global warming, the government CHANGE, War, Health care, etc...

Some days when I get up, my heart is pounding within' a minute. I have to pay (HOW?) bills.. feed my family, get dental work (another how?).. fill my empty gas tank to go to school, to get a better job down the line, if my house is still here after hurricane season is over, and if we didn't get blown up by then. There are daily living priorities, short term plans and long term plans.... and thats my mantra... to balance myself, or I BECOME pessimistic, because I understand the days, I fall short on anything other than survival of my family already. I know I'm still better off than many, so, I know they must not be able wrap their head around anything other than immediate survival. Therefore, how can I not think people can't possibly do all these things to save our earth?

There are the other days, too. I wake up and the first thing I do is one action for our environment, one to change government, another to speak out against the war and then I don't know.. help planned parenthood, or fight/petition against a law that would do the middle class harm... then I get on with my day of trying to survive. (Sometimes I or my family comes up short on these days, because I spent time on the "big" picture).. like voicing/connecting to people either here or somewhere else, trying to come to some terms with all these feelings..

as I've stated, I can see both sides, I feel them both. Don't most people? I wouldn't think everyone else gets up feeling the same way, every single day. Would that be healthy/or even normal? There are better days than others for me anyway.

I guess if everyone did the best they could, but REALLY did the best they could, and provided a more balanced approach to their lives, this world would be in better shape a lot sooner. Not everyone could even take the time to dig into this subject as we have, and that doesn't make them not care, they may just have more on their plate than we do. I don't know.

I don't claim to have the answers, I can certainly be of assistance to those though, that have some excellent suggestions as to actions I can take in order to help. Some of the suggestions on this thread have been amazing IMO...

I think this should be kicked until each member of this site have at least read and kicked it. Doesn't DU have a member call or something, where, when subjects that are really a matter of life and death, that all members, just make it their obligation to this community to circulate the information... ?? Just another thought.

Gore has it right. Grass roots. Well, that would be us..we are here. How does all and I mean ALL of DU get together on this? If we can't get ourselves in 100%... how do we get others involved in this REAL FIGHT FOR LIFE?

[redqueen]

30. What are we going to do?

Change our lifestyle, for one thing. We must move closer to work. We must use public transport if at all possible. We must use more efficient vehicles. We must use energy more wisely. We must use recycled goods and recycle our garbage. We must buy locally-grown or manufactured goods whenever possible.

For another thing, we must lobby our elected representatives for action NOW. Here in TX we're stopping the construction of 11 new coal-fired power plants that TXU is trying to push through for approval.

Every little thing helps, but we must do EVERY thing we can every chance we get.

[Megahurtz]

31. It's the Fucking Oil.

If everyone would seriously stop using this shit then there might be a chance.
Of course I'm talking about the big corporations shifting everything over to alternative sources,
such as solar power for one.

But I have no hope for that, there are too many $GreedyFucks$ in the world.

[Delphinus]

34. Kick...

for more eyes to see this important subject. I'm grateful it's in LBN and not relegated to the Energy/Environment Forum.

[alfredo]

37. Tax cuts for SUV customers!!!!