Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

[BushOut06]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2313135,00.html

<snip>
Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
THE Government is discussing with airport operators plans to introduce a screening system that allows security staff to focus on those passengers who pose the greatest risk.

The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background.

The system would be much more sophisticated than simply picking out young men of Asian appearance. But it would cause outrage in the Muslim community because its members would be far more likely to be selected for extra checks.

Officials at the Department for Transport (DfT) have discussed the practicalities of introducing such a system with airport operators, including BAA. They believe that it would be more effective at identifying potential terrorists than the existing random searches.
<snip>

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. It has begun all over... they just aren't admitting it yet.

Here in Michigan, especially Dearborn, Arabs are subjected to all kinds of crap...for no reason other than who they are and where they live. :(

[saigon68]

96. If I see someone come in that's got a diaper on his head

President Bush may be trying to quash anti-Muslim bigotry, but that didn't stop Rep. John Cooksey (R-La.) from telling a Louisiana radio network this week: "If I see someone come in that's got a diaper on his head and a fan belt wrapped around the diaper on his head, that guy needs to be pulled over."
Yesterday Cooksey spokesman Bob Anderson told The Post's Juliet Eilperin that his boss was making a larger point -- that turban-wearing airline passengers should be taken aside and questioned: "Obviously suspicious people should be checked out."

Rep. John Cooksey
113 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
202-225-8490 phone
202-225-5639 fax

[spindrifter]

2. Nothing like making an outraged group

feel more outraged. Exactly how many incidents will be thwarted as a result of racial/ethnic/religious profiling and how many totally innocent people will be demeaned?

[Kailassa]

23. Not nearly as many as will be caused by making people feel

demeaned, we can be sure of that.

I wonder if the admin aren't banking on that happening, trying to drive Muslims in Australia, England and America into becomong terrorists to give everyone else a group to focus their hatred on.

I know that comparing anyone else to the Jews in Nazi Germany is verboten, but the margenalization of Muslims, and the increasing distrust and even hatred towards them, is getting to be like the start of antisemitic stuff all those years ago. We must take note of history, and keep in mind where this can lead to.

[Snivi Yllom]

60. every international already gets profiled when they pass through customs

at the customs line when they ask you where you have been, what you bought, and what was the purpose of your travel.

The difference is now they will ask you before you fly.

[spindrifter]

72. Yes, this is a message that needs to

be spread.

[Kutjara]

3. I wonder what they'll have to wear on their jackets this time around.

Little crescents, I guess.

[gratuitous]

35. That was my first thought

I'm not sure how you determine just by looking who is a Muslim. If I flew with any regularity at all, I'd seriously consider wearing one of those checkered kerchief things, just to see if my Anglo looks were proof against suspicion of being a terrorist.

[marmar]

4. Where's V when you need him?

And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance, and depression. And where once you had the freedom to object, think, and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillence coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

[saltpoint]

5. Tony Blair is now watching what precious little remains of his legacy as a

promising, magnanimous leader go straight down the toilet.

[sandnsea]

6. they'll just recruit non-ethnic folks

I don't know why that is so hard for these people to figure out. Not to mention the fact that we're doing absolutely nothing diplomatically to marginalize these extremists which is what really needs to happen if we're ever going to stop this.

[Tellurian]

11. And perhaps purchase surplus weapons from Israel geared to

precision targeting of government buildings and empirical infrastructure such as the Golden Gate Bridge.

There are millions of Arabs living in the country who support their native country stateside.

Bush, Cheney and Blair have duly stirred the pot and instigated enough hatred of Americans, we're lucky if we last until year' end.

[MADem]

14. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it at all; remember Richard Reed?

How about Jose Padilla??

And then there's the poster boy, John Walker Lindh.

Muslims come in all colors, shades, nationalities. The deciding factors are religion (Muslim) and travel to countries with militia training camps, often via Yemen (or Yemen is the fake stop and the trainee is spirited on without passport stamps).

[maxsolomon]

45. leave JWL out of it

he never did shit to Murka, he fought with the Taliban & was never a member of Al Queda, & is getting a really bad deal. His unfortunate existence allowed the GOP to stick him alone with the meme "American Taliban" just when it was starting to adhere to the religious right.

99.99% of Al Queda members or would-be members are Muslims of Middle Eastern or Asian descent. Just because blond muslims exist doesn't mean that nationality or ethnicity does not play a part in this fake war of mutual paranoia & religious ignorance.

[MADem]

70. Oh, come on, there have been plenty of high profile 'non-swarths'

Richard Reid--English and Jamaican. http://www.terrorismcentral.com/Library/Biographies/Bios/Reid/RReidList.html

Adam Gadahn--white bread American boy: http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/gadahn.htm

Jose Padilla--not to be confused with the musician of the same name: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2037444.stm
http://i.cnn.net.nyud.net:8090/cnn/2003/LAW/03/11/padilla.decision/story.padilla.jpg

Jack Roche--Aussie with a grudge: http://www.inq7.net/wnw/2004/may/29/wnw_5-1.htm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/media/images/40108000/jpg/_40108315_roche203.jpg

His compatriot, Joseph "Jihad" Jack Thomas: http://www.theage.com.au/news/War-on-Terror/Jihad-Jack-to-stand-trial/2005/04/01/1112302212871.html

Lionel Dumont, a French laddie: http://thestar.com.my/news/list.asp?file=/2004/10/21/nation/9125003&sec=nation

http://thestar.com.my.nyud.net:8090/archives/2004/10/21/nation/dumont.jpg

Steven Smyrek--German operative for those charmers in Hizb'Allah: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-993566,00.html

http://www.bambili.com.nyud.net:8090/data/news_pic/upload_photo_uploadzz29010023.jpg

Domenico Quaranta, incompetent Sicilian terrorist: http://reddingpalm.com/newsarchive/20020911world022.shtml

Ryan Anderson, a home grown National Guardsman and ex-Lutheran:
http://cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Ryan_Anderson.htm

http://graphics10.nytimes.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/02/13/national/13sold1.184.jpg


Clement Rodney Hampton-El; an original WTC crewmember: http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/dr-rashid/
(picture accompanies article)

There are plenty more, as well--Phillipines, Singapore, Indonesia, Chechnya, Bosnia...you can't judge simply by 'swarth' and an Arab name. In fact, in these times, that might give one a pass.

Here's a list of American 'jihadists' from four years ago--I'd guess it's a bigger list nowadays: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/020610/archive_021602.htm

The best candidates for mayhem are the Padillas and the Roches and Reids, because an untrained screener won't take note of them. A trained screener, using intelligent profiling, might not be so quick to be fooled, though.

[MadMaddie]

7. I have to say I go both ways on this....

For example if a cop is patrolling a black neighborhood and the number of people he pulls over are black is it racial profiling or is it that the probability that most people in the area are black....

So I will use the same argument here.....All of the terrorist were of Middle Eastern descent and specifically the majority of them from Saudi Arabia.....is it racial profiling or is it that all of the terrorist were from the Middle East...?

I honestly think in immediate aftermath if they would have focused on Saudi's we might have had a chance to catch more possible terrorist but now it nearly impossible to say how many different cultures have taken up Bin Laden's call....

I don't pretend to know all of the answers but I think sometimes we have to look at the facts......

[Megahurtz]

68. Sounds logical to me!

It's refreshing to see some actual logic around here sometimes!:)

[MadMaddie]

71. Thanks!!

:hi:

[AZBlue]

75. Thank you!

Thank you for the wise post!

[FredScuttle]

118. Er....

[flamingyouth]

8. Please change your subject line to match the headline of the article

Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

Per LBN rules.

Thank you. :)

[BushOut06]

9. done

Sorry.

[flamingyouth]

10. Thank you

:)

[ShockediSay]

12. wonder how many Muslims get extra checks on their freedom of speech

what with warrantless wiretaps, data mining of internet postings and the like

[MADem]

13. I support this, IF they do it like Israel does

You take likely age range plus religion plus unusual travel pattern that includes a trip or trips to countries that have militia training camps in them (or if they go to Yemen to study and kind of disappear for awhile) and those folks should be flagged. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then, they are questioned. If they don't perform well, they get questioned some more....

Look, if blond haired Episcopalians who wintered in Aspen were running around blowing up planes, it would be foolish not to note the Episcopalians carefully, check their roots to ensure their hair isn't suspiciously dyed to make them appear to be, say, Catholic redheads, and run a check to see if they'd been to Aspen. It's just COMMON sense.

Instead, we hassle grandma and grampa, children from three months to sixteen, mothers who have flown five times in their lives, business people, the famous, like Al Gore and Ted Kennedy (likely bombers, them!)...it's STUPID. And we do it to be "fair" because we don't want to hurt people's feelings. Bullshit. We piss everyone off with this nonsense.

Far better to politely inconvenience a group than go after the core of that very group AND a bunch of unlikely people just to pretend that it's not about what it is--religion, because it isn't Episcopalians blowing up those planes. It's exclusively Muslims. Now, we KNOW "all" Muslims aren't terrorists, but we also know the vast majority of terrorists (in this era, right now, anyway) are Muslims.

It just makes sense to zone in on the groups doing the deeds, and skip the PC nonsense. No one buys it, and they resent it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

15. Then You Will Risk Alienating The Muslim Community

especially since cooperation from the Muslim community that exposed the plot in the first place. And this is how you reward them? Plus we've already saw what profiling has done to a "muslim" like Charles de Menezez.

[MADem]

27. So you are saying EVERY Muslim has had suspicious travel

to countries that have militia training camps, and/or visit Yemen, that garden spot, though they have no family background there, AND they stay for the appropriate length of time to receive training, AND they exhibit other characteristics that trained (not these TSA goons, TRAINED) screeners can identify during questioning?

Not every Muslim would fall under this umbrella. And if the screening became onerous, say, the person is nailed ten times or so in two years, the government ought to offer to pay for a background check and put them on a 'trusted traveller' list. I really think the government should do that for ANYONE who gets stopped all the time, me included.

It's where we are headed anyway, like it or not.

Why are you thinking that 'profiling' means 'swarthy Middle Easterner?' Bali bombers, Singapore plotters, Jose Padilla, John Lindh, Richard Reed.....

[wellst0nev0ter]

51. No, Dave Chappelle.

If that's where you like to see this country headed, then I guess I can't stop you.

[MADem]

80. Dave Chappelle went to S. Africa, not Yemen or points beyond

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&%09s=1045855936372&c=MGArticle&cid=1149189892497&path=!flair!ae

[wellst0nev0ter]

102. No He's A Muslim Too

Do you want him profiled every time?

[MADem]

103. Yes, he is a Muslim. and he went to South Africa, not Yemen

What is your point?

I'd call travel to South Africa interesting, but not "suspicious"--unless there is a madrasah and a terrorist training camp outside Cape Town, and his credit card showed payments to these outfits.

[RobinA]

110. Frankly,

I would assume that the "Muslim community," the majority of members of which are not fundamentalist terrorists, would be just as unwilling to be blown out of the sky as I am. I mean, some members of a specific ethnicity are committing atrocious acts. It makes no sense NOT to pay close attention to what members of that ethnicity are carrying onto an airplane. If middle-aged white woman start bombing supermarkets, I'm willing, as a middle-aged white woman, to be given a second glance when I walk into the Acme. It's only sensible.

[Bacchus39]

21. during the DC sniper attacks there was blatant declaration

that the sniper "had to be" a white guy. that profile was proven wrong. however, I do not recall any outrage expressed over the profiling of white men.

nevertheless, profiling people from muslim countries with muslim names isn't exactly unjustified considering muslim radicals call for the destruction of the USA. Certainly grandmothers don't deserve the same scrutiny.

[MADem]

29. I was one of those bastards doing the broken line run to the GIANT

to do my shopping when that event went down....at night....and parking far from streetlights!!!

As I've said, I don't advocate broad brush profiling, but 'intelligent profiling.' You start with male, and Muslim. You look at age, you look at travel, you look at a host of other factors, and you screen.

We HAVE to do better than shaking down grandma and that kid, in dusty uniform, just off the plane from Baghdad....and we can.

[Kailassa]

24. And it's common sense that girls are whining wimps

who just need a good whuppin'n fuckin' to keep 'em in line .... isn't it?

:sarcasm: - just in case anyone wants to pretend the sarcasm is not obvious

Many "facts" and "solutions" labeled as common sense are not factual and solve nothing.

Sorry, Madem, but toeing the GOP line in this area is going to incite so much hatred on both sides,
it will cause terrorism, not prevent it. Think about this. How many Muslims live in America, and how many American Muslims are going to be targeted by this? Already in Australia Muslim children are growing accustomed to being hated and forced into their own little groups in regular schools. These kids have done nothing wrong, but, unlike their parents, they are growing up hating western society.

The policy you are so keen on can become a self fulfilling prophesy. We all know what happens to a dog that is beaten and hated while it's a pup.

[MADem]

26. Good grief, I don't even know what to say. Sarcasm or not, that

opening remark is pretty far afield. You need to check yourself.

We're gonna have to disagree on this one.

[Kailassa]

48. As soon as you lump an entire section of humanity into one box,

that is the type of garbage that comes up.

And it is no more pleasant for Muslims to be continually slandered
than it is for women when we are.

And no more apt.

[MADem]

64. Lumping is what people DO, it's part and parcel of policework

Like it or not, deny it if you will. All wife beaters are men. If you are looking for a wife beater, you aren't stopping grandma or little Bobby from grade 2.

We even lump in medicine--we don't screen northern Europeans for sickle cell, now, do we?

It is a waste of time, and an affront to the intelligence of all of us, that if they are looking for a person with particular criteria, a criteria that is ALWAYS present, that others must be harassed just to make folks "feel better" by PRETENDING that they aren't looking for Muslim males, 18 to 45, recent travel to Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria, the Baka Valley in Lebanon, and so on. Go after grampa, that nun, the six month old...in the interests of equality and wasting time and resources.

They'd be able to screen more efficiently, and make less of an impact, if they screened "smart" as opposed to forcing people to line up in great groups (fantastic targets, those lines and crowds) for equal-opportunity nonsense.

[FredScuttle]

119. Er....

[MADem]

121. And that's apropos of what?

McVeigh had the biggest body count, and he's a piker compared to the Nine Eleven crew. And none of those guys blew themselves up while taking lives, did they? And they didn't commit their crimes in the air, surrounded by a few hundred fellow passengers who just want to get to their destination.

These guys acted alone. They didn't line up and subject themselves to examination, like one does boarding a plane. Different crimes entirely. Different modus operandi; the only similarity is murder. But these guys weren't asked to take off their shoes and stand and be wanded before they killed people.

Here are some photos--spot the Muslims:






The first three are an American, an Australian, and a Jamaican, respectively.

All Muslim. Oh, and all terrorists.

The last two are a Lebanese and a Palestinian-Israeli Christian, respectively. Not terrorists.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5074719
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3748471.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/bucks/herts/4689757.stm
http://www.mari.org/JMS/october99/The_Maronite_Hermits.htm
http://www.wolfmanproductions.com/isrpal.htm

Ethnicity is NOT the issue. It never was. People want to MAKE it the issue, but the terrorist examples above certainly don't fit the stereotype, do they?

Religion is the STARTING point (not the only criterion) for intelligent profiling in this era, against this particular threat. If circumstances change, profiling should adjust to meet the new threats.

Right now, everyone who wants to blow up planes is Muslim. You start with that fact, and you profile based on curious, unaccounted-for travel, an inability to explain the purpose of the travel, unearned income, nervousness and sweating while being questioned, the usual profiler techniques.

[FredScuttle]

122. "Everyone who wants to blow up planes is Muslim"...

You must be reading from the George Bush Guide to How to Win Friends and Influence People.

That's as ridiculous as me saying "Everyone who wants to blow up abortion clinics is Christian"

[MADem]

123. Who, other than Christians, ARE blowing up abortion clinics???

It's fundie Christians, surely, but the common denominator is they all profess to be CHRISTIANS. Just as these un-Islamic bastards blowing up planes all profess to be MUSLIMS. Thanks for proving my point, there!

By ignoring reality, you don't make it go away. But if you INTELLIGENTLY profile, you don't harass that Muslim individual strictly for their 'appearance' or their manner of dress, but instead you check for alarms that might merit pulling that person out of line for a chat.

And if they ever create "Sky Abortion--Travel Coast to Coast, Terminate your Pregnancy--All at ONE LOW PRICE!!" you can be damned sure that "intelligent profiling" would have the capacity to cull out anyone wanting to do harm on THOSE flights, as well...

[hedgehog]

124. Oddly enough, my sister-in-law knows a kid with sickle cell

whose parents are both Irish as they come! I've heard of smart profiling based on behaviours rather than ethnicity. If it works, it sounds like the way to go .

[Solon]

30. If we are to be equal here...

Then the same checks should apply to White Christian Men who visited or live in areas of Montana, Idaho, Minnesota, etc. I mean, it wasn't Muslims who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in OKC.

[MADem]

Certainly. If that's what they're going after, they should do it just as

you postulate.

But the fact of the matter is, no Murrahs have blown up lately. I think they've put a box on those groups for now. If they start up again, hey, they should go for it. That's why it's INTELLIGENT screening--you start with likely suspects.

[Solon]

40. Just a few years ago...

The Krar couple were caught with explosives, and the ingredients to make a large Cyanide bomb. They were affiliated with militias and Christian Identity groups. I say the only difference between such groups and groups like Al Queda is competency, I mean, c'mon, Aryan Nations was taken down for an armed car robbery because one of its members left his REGISTERED handgun at the scene of the crime. They may think they are superior, but in reality, they are a bunch of dumbfucks.

ON EDIT: Also another thing, concentrate on one ethnic group, and terrorists from other groups end up slipping through, do we forget easily, that Rabin was killed by an Israeli student, or that the shoe bomber wasn't Middle Eastern?

[MADem]

42. I've said this ten times in this and other threads, ETHNICITY has NOTHING

to do with it.

It's white Christians who seem to think all Muslims are swarthy Middle Easterners. They aren't.

Sheesh.

[Solon]

44. Just so there is no misunderstanding...

Let's see, ok the Krar's are Christian, the Shoe Bomber was Muslim(converted in prison), and Rabin's assassin was Jewish. Problem is, ANY profiling will end up increasing the chances of someone NOT fitting said profile will slip through the net.

[MADem]

65. Member of Brixton Mosque, in south London

That was the extra-special thing the shoe bomber had going for him. That joint isn't sweetness and light. It's where they preach the London Burning sermons, and talk about plucking out the eyes of infidels.

Rabin's assassin wasn't getting on a plane and trying to blow up a few hundred people. He was motivated to kill one guy. I don't see what he has to do with the subject of discussion. Rabin died because his security forces dropped their guard and failed to keep their subject safe.

[Solon]

73. You support profiling, I was pointing out a danger of using it...

You know that Rabin's security folks were SO SURE that a Palestenian would try to take him out that they were totally unprepared and blindsided when the assassination happened. The same thing can happen on an airplane.

[MADem]

78. I do think the Security Detail profiled the crowd, I think they got it

wrong, AND I think they were LAZY and inattentive. Israel has the same mix of drama king and queens on either fringe of the political spectrum, conservatives, liberals, moderates, a mushy middle, special interest groups (rabid, won't-leave settlers; religious nuts; the Russian lobby) as we do. There's a lot of variety there, even though the bulk of the nation is united by religious similarity (though not uniformity in practice). The danger from one of their own was always there, but they were still a relatively new country, and yes, they were more used to threats from outside. But surely, post Kennedy, post Martin, post Bobby, they HAD to know better. They had to see the danger, simply from the political perspective (and they can get very exorcised about their politics). Never mind a bullet, a tomato, an avocado...a pie in the face.

Nothing will convince me that the security team didn't just screw up...of course, that leaves room for the tin foil set to say they were in on it...

[hedgehog]

127. Someone up thread referred to the Lackawanna 5

I apologize for not being able to find the comment. I just wanted to point out that it very likely that these guys thought they were going to Yemen to learn more about being a good Moslem and that they never had any intention then or later of becoming terrorists. They're in jail now because they were given a choice of pleading guilty or vanishing into the anti-terrorist gulag Bush has set up. They never had a fair trial.

[FredScuttle]

120. It's been 5 years since 9/11

What's the problem? No scary swarthy Muslims flying planes into buildings, so what's the big whoop? :sarcasm:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. I think it meets the textbook definition of bigotry.

And cowardice, and stupidity, and...

[MADem]

36. I don't..

You aren't screening EVERY Muslim. You are screening every Muslim who also matches a set of factors that set an alarm off. Those factors can and will change over time based on intelligence reports. If done right, as it is in Israel, it's not especially onorous or intrusive.

When the police say "Be on the lookout for a fat white woman wearing a purple bikini" they don't run around stopping old men and children, just so that everyone will feel as though they are being treated "equally."

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kailassa]

50. The posters who argue the most strongly against antisemitism,

always seem to be the same ones who are championing the GOP's efforts
to tar all Muslims with the one brush.

But I guess the arab semites don't matter.

[MADem]

66. What's that whining comment supposed to mean?

Are you obliquely trying to call me an Arab hater?

You obviously know little about me. If you knew my history, and where I've lived in the ME, you'd feel a bit foolish.

But hey, enjoy the view from that high horse.

[Megahurtz]

69. LOL! Perfect! n/t

[Love Bug]

87. How will the airlines tell if someone is Muslim? Do we have to put

our religion on our passport or driver's license? Without some kind of identification showing religion (being named "Muhammed" should not be enough), the airlines or law enforcement cannot even begin to use that for profiling. (I'm not justifying profiling, but just questioning the practicality of this.)

Now, if the government decides "in the interest of fighting terrorism" that all Americans need to declare their religion on their identification, then FUCK THAT SHIT. But don't be surprised if they try.

[MADem]

97. Did you know the IRS sells your personal data unless you opt out?

They can derive that info from your tax return in a brutal DARPA-ish database. Your charitable contributions will be noted for your deduction. Your credit card records, too, might tell the tale...or your bank statements. All of this can be researched and pinged without the intervention of a human, to be pulled up by a screener/profiler if it marries up with suspicious travel, unearned income, or some other aspect that causes concern.

In Germany, people do declare their religion. And the government takes the cash out of your paycheck FOR you, to give to your church. It's why so many Germans have no religious preference. They're cheap, ya see.

[Bretttido]

88. If it's not degrading and can be applied to innocent muslims,

then it should be applied everyone REGARDLESS of their religion. The idea of profiling with religion as one of the basis factors directly contradicts freedom from religious persecution. If we do not respect and abide by our Bill of Rights, what the hell will we respect?

[MADem]

111. How many Prebyterians were involved in 911?

I know, the conspiracy theorists will leap up and yell "Poppy!!!" (though he may be Episcopalian, actually).

Intelligent profiling will START with religion in countering ISLAMIC terrorism, which is the Threat Du Jour. Note I said START.

If the person does not meet other criteria, to include (but not limited to) age and gender (not disqualifiers in any event, but probability indicators), unearned income, suspicious travel, and bad body language if a profiling interview is instigated while checking in or on line at security, then off they go. No hassle, no trouble, no nothing.

Why waste time deliberately missing your target? For faux fairness? That is a waste of time and resources.

When Catholics start blowing up planes, buses and subways (they did do that, in UK, years back) then they need to be "intelligently profiled" as well.

By starting with the lowest common denominator, which IS religion now (later, it could be something else, depending on what the threat is), and adding factors which increase probability, then profiling can be done INTELLIGENTLY.

Screeners have a limited time to check the people boarding a plane. Every time they hassle that grandmother, or that six month old with the unfortunate name, that is time wasted that cannot be recovered to do a proper screening of that flight before it boards.

Yep, we do have freedom of worship in this country. But we TELL the government what our religion is. On our tax returns, when we take that charitable deduction. Our contributions to houses of worship are a matter of record, in databases ranging from credit cards to bank statements. Your religion is NOT a secret to the US government, for the most part. But in the event that they can't determine your religion, well, assume you are Muslim, and screen you from there. If you have the suspicious travel, the unearned income, the curious trips to Yemen or the Baka Valley in Lebanon, or perhaps a sixteen week visit to some out of the way madrasah in Pakistan...well, you're up to bat! Even if you are some undeclared religion that doesn't have tax-exempt status...!

[manhunter2006]

16. Whats your point?

The reality. 99.999999 percent of the Islamic Jihadists waging war
against western countries, (i.e blowing up planes, trains and automobiles)
are arab and middle eastern men from 17 to 40.

To not scrutinize those who fit that category would be
stupid and negligent. Its not racism, just survial.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Of the 24 arrested in Britain at least 1, if not 2, was a woman

and 2 were of 'white' descent. Of the 4 bombers on July 7th, one was born in the West Indies. People have already mentioned Richard Reid and John Walker Lindh. I presume you count Pakistan as "the Middle East", since most of those arrested this time, and the other 3 from July 7th, were all of Pakistani descent. All, except the West Indian (who came to Britain when he was 1) were born in Britain.

It will be effective racism if you base the searches on their 'race'. And such racism will increase the likelihood of future attacks, by alientating the victims from our society, adding to the pool of people who feel tehy're in a war against "the west".

[ninkasi]

28. There is also the problem

that many Americans can't tell the difference between people from the Mideast, and people from India, say. I've overheard stupid, clueless customers at a convenience store I go to make snide comments about the owner, calling him Ali, but he's actually from the same area of India that Gandhi came from.

The sad truth is that many people not only mistrust anybody who looks, or acts different, but they make no effort to become friendly, and learn a little bit about other cultures. I have a 15 year old great-nephew whose father was from Lebanon, and he gets some really hateful things said to him, even though his father has been out of the picture since he was a baby. He's an all American boy, but has dark hair and eyes, and is sometimes on the receiving end of insensitive remarks.

[CJCRANE]

34. Not to mention Brazilians...

Just look at the Menenzez shooting in London.

Or Sikhs getting beaten up because people think they're the Taliban.

[ninkasi]

46. Exactly

I wish more Americans would try to become more knowledgeable about other countries and other cultures. No wonder many in Europe consider us barbarians.

[ConcernedCanuk]

62. Military taught recruits to think of "Easterners" as "Ragheads"

.
.
.

Ergo,

The USA is fostering hatred and dehumanization of our own species, _ HUMANS!!

Makes it easier to kill them that way - -

Makes me SICK!!!

[MADem]

31. The issue is RELIGION, not ethnicity.

But we're so damn odd in this country about "faith." You're either having the Xtian version of religion shoved unwillingly up your ass everywhere from schools to baseball games, or you have to TIPTOE around anything that doesn't involve Jesus.

The race or country of origin can and does vary with the Terra Crowd. Indonesia, Singapore, Chechnya, you name it.

The common thread is RELIGION.

[CJCRANE]

38. That's the crowd the MSM pays attention to -

there are wars and terrorism all over the world that don't involve muslims.

However, I will agree that most who target Western interests are muslims (although western intelligence agencies have a hand in many of the big attacks). The only way to profile them will then be to have a database of muslim names as I'm not sure if all passports contain some-one's religion in them.

[High Plains]

22. What's your point?

99.99 percent of Muslims are not Islamic jihadist terrorists.

[manhunter2006]

74. Yeah,but..

Yes, but the majority of Muslims worldwide are supportive of Islams jihad against the west.
How then can you explain the majority of Pakistanis regarding a degenerate mass murderer
like bin laden a hero??

[Bretttido]

90. "majority of Muslims are supportive of Islams jihad against the west"?

WTF is wrong with you? Did you get all these "facts" from freeper-ville and expect to pass off bogus xenophobia to a much more descerning audience without any objection? You were mistaken, my friend.

[Richard Steele]

76. You have a poor grasp of the facts. Your "99.99999% " is nonsense.

[Bretttido]

89. Let me guess, you pulled that statistic directly out of your ass

because if you came up with a number REALLY close to 100%, it would justify your argument?

[athena]

115. 99.999999% ?

Do you even know what 99.999999% means? It says that out of every 100,000,000 Jihadists, 1 is non-Arab. Since Jihadists come in whole numbers (as opposed to fractional), it implies that there are at least one hundred million Jihadists. That's 1.5% of the world's population -- i.e., 3 out of every 200 people, Muslim or non-Muslim.

You should read the book "Innumeracy".

[dipsydoodle]

17. Senior UK Police Officer who is also a Muslim

has said this will effectively create an offence of "travelling while Asian"

edit - see note on this link : http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13537570,00.html

[The Stranger]

18. Maybe they should be required to wear a badge in public, so we know

who they are.

I don't think stars or triangles are en vogue any more -- how about a yellow little crescent?

:sarcasm:

[cap]

19. what would be so wrong with working with the community

to identify the "evildoers" and develop a system to target THOSE people instead of selectively picking people in the community. Why cant we invest in a scalpel instead of a lawn mower?

[Kailassa]

25. "Why cant we invest in a scalpel instead of a lawn mower?"

Because the purpose of this is not to catch terrorists.

The whole purpose of this is to label Muslims so the majority in our Western countries will not object to us taking their countries from them and treating them like dogs.

And if you want to thoroughly control society, you start one group at a time.

[MADem]

33. That's what INTELLIGENT Screening will do.

Muslim is only the starting point...the other factors (age, gender-though not exclusively, and travel, especially) will determine if that person is even pulled out of line and questioned.

[Kailassa]

49. That would make it so easy for terrorists ...

Just pick people who look caucasian,
give them caucasion names on their fake passports,
and they get a free pass ...

Such "solutions" are drivel for the simple minded.

White sheep go "ba-a-a-a".
Black sheep go "baa-a-a-d"
- don't they?

[MADem]

67. One more time--ETHNICITY has NOTHING to do with it.

White and black sheep? Come on.

I give up. Why must people focus on the GOP 'swarthy' theme? It's NOT what intelligent profiling would do.

Muslim does NOT mean MIDDLE EASTERN. Only to people who haven't been around Muslims much, it does.

Try being in Meccah at the Hajj. There's Islam for you. Every ethnicity in the world is represented. You'll see blue eyed blonds, chinese folk, Africans, Indonesians...it's a mixed bag.

[cap]

86. the key is working with the Muslim community

there is no such thing as Hindus for bin Ladin...

The profiling will include ethnicity...just as if you are screening for the IRA, it will be Catholic Irish who are included in the dragnet. There are no Muslims in the IRA.

The key thing is not to drag in every Muslim or even a significant number of Muslims who are innocent. If the Muslim community is involved in the hunt for terrorist, they will finger the criminals more effectively than any computer program written by people who are not working with the community. The Muslim community must be involved.

[MADem]

99. Now, see, I say, be WARY of relying on ethnicity

While I am inclined to think that the MIAMI arrests were a joke; a bunch of idiots shooting off their mouths, you can't tell a Muslim by ethnicity alone--you have to tease out that RELIGIOUS info by using existing databases (tax returns, credit cards, travel, and so forth):

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0626/p01s01-ussc.html.html?s=widep

Other recent arrests include:

• Two Georgia men arrested in March, both Muslims, are accused of being involved in international terrorism activities, making greater Atlanta the site of three recent antiterror arrests. Authorities have linked them to those arrested in Canada in an alleged plot to attack targets in Toronto.

• In Torrance, Calif., a group of gas- station burglars were arrested last summer and charged with plotting to finance the destruction of military-recruitment offices. Three of the four are US citizens.

• Though not classified by the FBI as a terrorist act, a Muslim student's March rampage across the University of North Carolina quad in his Jeep Cherokee injured nine people. He is reported to have told investigators he was "avenging the death of Muslims all over the world."

Experts cite cultural alienation, the influence of radical clerics, and even youthful rebellion run amok as motivations for these plots and misadventures. But what ties many of them together is the idea of defending a religion under attack.

"One fundamental common denominator of these cases is the belief that there's a war against Islam and therefore you have to avenge it," says Steven Emerson, author of "American Jihad: The Terrorists Living Among Us."

Many of those arrested were not seen as threats by those who knew them. In an earlier case in Lackawanna, N.Y., the six men who ultimately pleaded guilty to providing material support to terrorists grew up watching football, played sports, and enjoyed barbecue. In the Miami case, one of the suspects is a musician who also worked at an Abercrombie & Fitch store.

"These folks have various jobs, including ice-cream truck driver. A lot of them are students, a lot of them are Muslim converts or their parents came from Middle Eastern countries," says Oren Segal, director of the Center for the Study of Left-wing and Islamic Extremism in New York.

Particularly disturbing for law enforcement is that so many, like the London subway bombers last summer, are citizens without rap sheets whose violence seems to come out of nowhere. The FBI's Mr. Mueller said Friday that the bureau met with Muslim organizations as recently as last week to discuss issues in a community with as many as 7 million members in the United States, nearly half of whom are African-Americans.

"You're getting people who aren't connected to particular groups, and they seem to be moving very rapidly from a period of having no criminal record to suddenly being willing to use violent methods to make a political point," says Gary LaFree, director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism in College Park, Md....

We need to be scared to death of the fat, pimpled, blond kid from Bakersfield, who has emerged from Mama's basement, tossed away his XBox, toddled down to the local mosque (the one with that group of oddball guys who don't mix well with the rest of the congregation), starts wearing a crocheted fez on his head, grows his five hairs on his chin, and suddenly, without so much as a J-O-B at Burger King, finds himself with the dough to prance off to Yemen to "study" at a madrasah.

[hedgehog]

125. No Muslims in the IRA?

That depends, are we talking about a Catholic muslim or a Protestant Muslim?

(old joke, couldn't resist, sorry.)

[Bretttido]

92. You seem to be of the mindset that the ends justify the means

Do you stop to think of how degrading and incriminating that feels to every single muslim who visits family in the middle east? To be singled out and searched infront of all other passengers? I don't know what freedom of religion means to you, but to me, it means the government does not and CANNOT treat people differently based on their religion.

[MADem]

95. Oh, please....give me a break

Not every Muslim will be targeted. Ones who have had plus-ups of their bank accounts, have no apparent source of income, who have odd travel patterns and a host of other alarms WILL be pulled off for additional questioning. The businessman and family who live in the States and visit Mama every year in Iraq, Syria, the UAE, or Saudi will be sent on their way without problem.

And if a sect of Catholic-Luddite mongrels or underwater basket weavers decides to join forces with these 'terrists,' or open a new front, they should be 'intelligently profiled' as well.

Yes, you CAN treat people differently; and you should if their difference is a predictor that will help stop them from trying to kill you.

[Bretttido]

107. You seem to think that government institutions will not abuse power

The Bill of Rights was written because history has shown that if government CAN abuse power, it WILL abuse power.

Consenting to this kind of profiling is giving into fear and allowing terrorist actions to further intrude on our freedoms and liberties. I am not afraid of terrorists. I will not be manipulated by terrorists. And I will not allow fear to coerce me into giving away the liberties of myself and others for a false sense of security.

If the correct security precautions are in place that apply to EVERYONE; ie. metal detectors, 100% baggage detection, etc... I couldn't give a rats ass if a terrorist got on board my plane, because he/she wouldn't be able to do shit. Britain showed that what stops them is good POLICE work; the fuckers never even got to the airport.

Further, if this profiling affects people who are deemed to be muslim that have "odd travel patterns and a host of other alarms", where does the government get this information? Do they begin infiltrating mosques and acquiring enrollments? Do they clear a check-box for all people who voluntarily tell the government they attend a Christian church? Do they require our religion to be printed on our drivers license and ID cards? What kind of country are we creating if we would give up such liberties for a short-term perceptions of security? IF the terists did hate us for our freedoms, they will not hate us for long...

[MADem]

113. As I have said elsewhere

The agency that does this work, TSA or DHS, or someone else, needs to ensure that the people doing this job have a serious degree of both independence AND oversight. There needs to be an avenue for complaint set up first, before the agency even goes on line.

I don't mean or intend to be rude or snarky to you, but you surely must know that you already have consented to be profiled in a thousand documents you've filled out and signed over the years. You have cable tv, a phone, a bank account?? You own or rent a house? Your info is EVERYWHERE, like dogshit on a hot summer's day. It can be accessed with very little effort...and not just by the gubmint...by ANYONE who wants a handle on you.

Begin by infiltrating mosques? It's DONE. It's been done for YEARS. But even without that, your religious affiliation can be divined by seeing where your charitable contributions go--your bank statements, your credit cards, debits, and your charitable deductions on your tax return.

The London bombers were stopped because of PRECISELY the sort of profiling I'm talking about--and quite frankly, it was probably MORE onerous than what I am proposing. Good police work, sure, that involved PROFILING, targeting, and spying on a mosque. Let's start with a MUSLIM, with suspicious travel patterns (the ringleader directed all from PAKISTAN, his little brother carried out the plan and went back and forth), mosque infiltration, and even infiltration into the very group planning the deed. You KNOW phones were tapped. They've likely got HOURS of tape. They probably have video of these guys buying the materials for their little bomblets.

And according to some, the plot was brought down too soon because George wanted Tony to wrap it up, toute suite. The Brits, say some, wanted to actually let them get TO the airport before they hauled them in.

[hedgehog]

126. Infiltrating gathering places and meetings has a bad history inthis count

All too often, the infiltrators decide to get a conviction by hurrying things along. The people arrested in Miami (remember them?) had all their equipment provided by the friendly FBI agent who joined their group and encouraged them to develop a plan.

[MADem]

128. But the good ones don't. They just track, inform, and use anecdotal

evidence to OPEN an investigation managed by someone else. Then they step back, or continue to stay in place to see what else might turn up.

Unless an agent/informant is planning on pretending to be a foot soldier, as opposed to a planner, in an undercover venture, they shouldn't go near any mission implementation.

That Miami thing was a farce. A bunch of not-too-bright loser/wanna bees without even the bus fare to go do their grandiose and horrific deed. Completely DISGRACEFUL. Public incompentence, that.

The dumbass agent working THAT waste of time likely was enjoying the hell out of his Miami posting (he probably was out clubbing when he wasn't hanging around with those losers--odds are those two worlds NEVER collided), and trying to toss any bullshit he could at his bosses to keep collecting that per diem and separation pay, and enjoying that nightlife.

[Bretttido]

91. It's good to know that since I'm not a muslim, I have a free pass at

blowing shit up. :sarcasm:

[MADem]

100. What are you planning on blowing up?

What is your motivation? What cause would propel you to kill yourself and take a few hundred people with you?

Look, if people like you (who are NOT Muslim) start blowing things up, intelligent profiling will add your characteristics to the database. And then, gee whiz, you'll get to be checked out, too, if you have sufficient criteria to merit further scruitiny.

[Bretttido]

109. I'm part of a new underground group called

White Christian Women Veterans for Truth. You better add us to that all encompassing database too. Maybe if we get lucky, someday.. everyone will be applicable to atleast one group in the fear-these-people-database.

[MADem]

114. Well, you can be happily underground, but if your group starts

killing people by the hundreds, then white Christian women will start getting the once-over, too, if they exhibit other factors particular to your organization that suggest means, motive and opportunity to do harm.

[ItNerd4life]

39. I don't understand why people would disagree with this policy

Over the last 10 years most terrorist acts have been from islamic zealots. Security checks for all people will still occur, but extra security precautions against certain profiles I think makes sense.

If the profiles change, then so should the security measures.

If a white gang is terrorizing a neighborhood, should the police hassle everybody even young black men? Okay, so some police departments would only round up the black men. I hope everyone agrees that wouldn't be right, so what is the difference? :shrug:

[CJCRANE]

41. You're right

in a sense but it's a slippery slope. The Murdoch media regularly run stories about how muslims are planning apocalyptic attacks and about how islamo-fascists want to take over the world, kill all unbelievers etc etc.

Muslims are on their way to becoming the new Jews, except there's more of them so this 'long war' will go on a lot longer than the Nazis took.

[MADem]

43. Now there's a GREAT point...it IS a slippery slope, but only because

we cannot trust our government.

Who here doesn't think Al Gore would run a similar program in responsible fashion????

[Solon]

47. Problem is, it doesn't MATTER who is in the White House...

not really, because if Gore ran it responsibly, the next person probably wouldn't. That's why such power shouldn't be the government's in the first place. This is damned near as bad as all other profiling ever done, like DWB, etc.

[Bretttido]

93. If Gore were in the white house, it would not even be an issue

We would not be in Iraq and Muslims around the world would not despise the US (as much) for its reckless anti-Arab foreign policy.

[ItNerd4life]

52. I can understand it being a slippery slope, look at WWII

and how the Japanese Americans were treated and profiled.

I just think it's also a slippery slope when you profile everybody as being a suspect.

Also, I do agree with another poster's sentiment that there is a Bush factor involved and that's why people don't trust the government doing the job the right way.

[The Stranger]

53. The profiled are never going to be the empowered race.

Never. It is inherent in the institutions of power, and it is racism. Do try to read up on all of the connotations of that word.

(Now let me :puke:. I cannot believe I am reading someone's justification for racial profiling on DU.)

[ItNerd4life]

83. I do understand racism. This isn't. Here is definition and reasons.

From Dictionary.com.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

I never claimed any race is superior. I asked how is this profiling is bad. Again, Here is the question I asked earlier, please answer the question.

If a WHITE gang is terrorizing a neighborhood, should the police search everybody in the neighborhood, even the black people? I don't see how searching the white people is racism. It seems to me that it's smart police work. That's protecting the neighborhood.

I consider it racism if the police DID search the black people in the above scenario.

[The Stranger]

85. The empowered race is never going to be the subject of the profile.

It is about institutionalized racism and the subjugation and exploitation of minorities.

You need to do much more research. Then come back.

[MADem]

104. ?????????

That makes absolutely no sense.

Is Adam Gadahn a subjugated and exploited minority?

Intelligent profiling would have nabbed him before he became Tony Snow to Osama Bin Ladin...

[The Stranger]

116. Learn about institutionalized racism and racial profiling.

(I don't know if Adam Gadahn is a subjugated and exploited minority or not.)

[MADem]

117. Google is your friend.... NT

[Megahurtz]

106. So.......

is it racism if someone from a particular race commits a crime?:think:

[Snivi Yllom]

55. Tweety was all in favor of profiling last night

Including his two guests, one who suggested this is a slam dunk winner issue for the first Democrat candidate who makes it an issue for 2006/2008.

[Snivi Yllom]

54. This is 1000 times more effective than banning deodorant or lipstick

unfortunately profiling does make sense

[PsychoDad]

56. So... Will we have to declare our religion

Before we can fly?

Will we be forced to declare our faith at the customs or counter? I declare there is no God but Allah?

Will we be given little cresent badges?


I thought the whole purpose of the "no fly lists" was to keep as many Muslims off planes as possible. :P


Peace.

[MADem]

105. You already DO declare your religion in many, indeed most, cases

It's on your tax return, in your "charitable contributions."

Or it's on your credit card, if you debit to your local house of worship.

Or, in your bank account, if you write that check to your religious affiliation.

Recent convert? If you don't think there are people who check the rolls of mosques, especially mosques featuring 'fiery' Imams, regularly, I've a bridge to sell you.

The IRS is already selling your information to private contractors unless you've opted out. To do that, there's gotta be a database already up and running.

You don't think the TSA and DHS couldn't figure out your particulars with the right motivation and equipment?

[PsychoDad]

108. They could look at what books I buy....

Or check out from the local library.

Not only am I sure they have noted the rolls at my Mosque, but we know they have also investigated the Quakers, and who knows who else?

You are right, God help all of us, muslim and non-muslim.

Big Brother knows who and what you are.

[MADem]

112. They've tried that already--ask Monica Lewinsky, and the Librarians'

associations....

People get angry because the government has so much information on us. But like it or not, we are not about to unring that bell. We can try to hold back the tide and limit their access to our financial histories and our interactions with state, local and federal governments, but unless one 'goes off the grid' in every respect, to include eschewing a life that requires you to be billed for ANYTHING, from phone to cable tv to credit card statements; does everything in cash AND is self-employed, never drives a car (no license, no database information), never buys or rents a home and lives in a cave or a tent in the wilderness, then one has no privacy.

I'd rather they use the information INTELLIGENTLY. Stop with the broad brush, and TARGET to the actual threat--and if the threat changes, ADJUST. That way, the Muslim doctor making his annual trip to Iran to see grandma in her dotage would NOT be hassled. OTOH, the fat, pimpled, attitudinal blond kid who changed his name from Wallace to Walid, and now wears a the crocheted fez and full costume, growing five chin hairs, who has recently converted to Islam, has no source of income, yet somehow has a bank account full of dough and found the cash to go to a madrasah in Yemen or Pakistan, will be given a good look-see.

Of course, the real challenge is that we have no INTELLIGENT people in this administration...any profiling agency within TSA or HSD will need to have a strong degree of both independence from the pressure of politicians AND Congressional oversight to ensure that they don't get all jackbooted in doing their work. There would need to be an IG and a complaint procedure set up FIRST, before the agency ever does their first 'intelligent profile.'

If President Gore were setting up something like this, I'd have more confidence in the checks and balances proposed for the outfit.

[MasonJar]

57. That has to be unConstitutional!

[nsd]

79. This is being discussed in Britain, not the US.

So our Constitution doesn't apply.

[sarcasmo]

58. When do they start filling up those Halliburton Detention camps?

Being an Atheist I wonder if I will be checked more closely.

[Zhade]

59. Codified bigotry. Disgusting.

NT!

[countryjake]

61. And acceptance of fascism marches on...

we are being conditioned to feel it's fine to "examine" the papers of those who look as tho they originate from another land, that it's only right to intensify the questioning of anyone who may hold beliefs that "seem threatening" to the good old American way of life; in effect, that citizens who may disagree with policies of our government or don't fit "the mold" are to be looked upon with suspect and treated as such.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, was learned from the lessons of WWII!

I wonder what these newest badges should look like?


First they came for the Eagle feathers
and I did not speak out...

[Alameda]

63. Muslims face extra checks

May I point out that there are other groups who terrorize people who are not Muslims?

n April 10, 2003, a team of federal agents armed with a search warrant entered a storage unit in a small Texas town and were stunned to find a homemade hydrogen cyanide device--a green metal military ammo box containing 800 grams of pure sodium cyanide and two glass vials of hydrochloric acid. The improvised weapon was the product of 62-year-old William Joseph Krar, an accomplished gunsmith, weapons dealer, and militia activist from New Hampshire who had moved his operations to east central Texas just 18 months earlier.

more.....

http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=nd04reynolds

[Bill McBlueState]

77. How do they tell?

Seriously, how are Muslims identified? Does everyone have to take a quiz about the Qu'ran?

You can't tell someone's Muslim by looking at them. It's a religion, not an ethnicity.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nihil]

82. No ... that's not the "no-brainer" ...

> What is more important, saving the lives of innocent people
> of all races, religions and cultures from being slaughtered by
> death worshiping Islamic killers immersed in an ideology of hate,
> or bending over backwards not to inconveinence people of middle
> eastern descent?

What is more important is that bigots who support the killing of
innocent people are stirring up even more shit against a particular
target again. Or don't the "innocent people of all races, religions
and cultures" who need to be protected include those in Iraq, Lebanon,
Afghanistan, Sudan or anywhere else that the fascists deem "foreign
lands"?

Last time it was the Jews. This time it is the Muslims.
There is very little difference in the aggressors though
(or in the tactics used).

> The western world is under assault from militant Islam

Islam is under assault from the militant western world.
It is just as entitled to "self-defence" as any other religion.

> To ignore that is to play PC games with the lives of innocent people.

And "PC games" is about the limit of your experience with life
by the sound of it.


Welcome to DU ... enjoy your stay ...

[noonwitch]

84. If we single out muslims/arabs, then the terrorists will just recruit

people who look like americans (i.e. caucasian) and don't identify themselves as muslims.

I think it's more important to not single any group out, both because it's wrong and because security needs to be more comprehensive.

I wonder if the people who are screaming for racial and religious profiling are just too impatient to wait in line like everybody else.

[ItNerd4life]

94. Consider this thought: Is it police work, instead of racism?

If you ever get a chance to talk to a police detective ask them if they ever catch the bad guys because the bad guys were behaving suspiciously and fit a profile.

Some people on here have claimed the empowered race never gets profiled. I'm assuming they mean the 'white' race.

In my neighborhood, a white teenaged kid was seen breaking into 2 houses. Along that time a total of 8 houses had been broken into. When the police patrolled the neighborhood, they started paying extra attention to the teenaged white kids. A week later, my neighbor was out for a walk (who is a narcotics detective) and started questioning a couple of teenagers based upon in his own words 'they were acting suspicious'. He talked to the kids. The vandalism stopped.

Never did anybody consider this racial profiling, they considered it police work.

I don't trust Bush to handle it like a police investigation, because he is a racist. And maybe that is where the disagreement lies. I just think our airport security people would handle it as a policing situation.

[specimenfred1984]

101. Then chimp-faced war criminals need super attention

--- The Constitution in Crisis; The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Coverups in the Iraq War, and Illegal Domestic Surveillance ---

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/iraqrept2.htm

[Tight_rope]

98. America has turned into a land of discrimination and not democracy!