Indians Once Again Challenge Redskins Name

[Rose Siding]

A group of Native Americans filed a new legal challenge yesterday to trademarks for the name and logo of the Washington Redskins, saying the team's name is a racial slur that should be changed.

A petition filed at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office by six Native Americans represents a second chance for Indians to challenge the football franchise's name. The team prevailed in an earlier fight when a U.S. District Court judge ruled that the plaintiffs waited too long under trademark law to object. This time, the complaint was filed with a new set of plaintiffs.

In the petition, the six Native American activists say that the football franchise's name breaks a 1946 federal law prohibiting the government from registering a trademark that disparages any race, religion or other group.

"The term 'redskin' was and is a pejorative, derogatory, denigrating, offensive, scandalous, contemptuous, disreputable, disparaging and racist designation for a Native American person," the complaint says.

Jillian Pappan, 19, of Sioux City, Iowa, one of the six challengers, equated the name Redskin with the "N-word." "You're not going to call me a redskin, and they shouldn't be allowed to have that as a copyright," she said.,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/11/AR2006081101045.html

[MADem]

1. Ya know, I agree with them--about the only way I think DC should keep the

name is if they change their LOGO to this: http://www.artofthemix.net.nyud.net:8090/uploadimages/95867_cd135-potato-head.jpg

[NVMojo]

2. I am totally wiith the Indians on this issue ...

I mean, I dare any team to be called the Detroit White Guys or the Tampa Bay Honkeys ...it just would be absurd ...

[silverojo]

4. Um, hello...there already is such a thing

The Notre Dame "Fighting Irish" perpetuates a negative stereotype of Irish-Americans like myself. I'm gonna sue!!!!!!!

Or maybe I'll just grow up and realize it's an honor to have my people being used to represent victory.

That's what's been done by the Redskins and Cleveland Indians. Just MAYBE the Native Americans ought to view it as the honor it is, and focus their energies and money on something productive, like helping the impoverished people on reservations live a better life.

[eridani]

5. Here's a deal for you

Make the Vikings change their name to the Squareheads, and you can keep "Redskins."

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demosincebirth]

7. Also the San Diego State Aztecs.

Bet many Mexicans Americans are part Aztec.

[Zhade]

39. "Aztec" is not a deragatory term. Redskin or Viqueen is.

NT!

[fishwax]

14. "redskins" is no honorific

and to pretend it is is thoroughly absurd.

[theHandpuppet]

18. Thank you!

The term "REDSKINS" is disgustingly racist! Why do people even try to defend this?

[LostinVA]

26. I agree -- "Redskins" is like saying

"Spics" or "Niggers." People who frame this as the Native Americans being too "sensitive" are being a bit too purposely obtuse.

[fishwax]

27. purposely obtuse

great phrase :) There seems to be an american epidemic ...

[northzax]

55. hey, you wanna know the major difference?

there are a lot of Irish Catholics who operate and attend Notre Dame. (even though it was founded by French Catholics) a lot. the school has strong ties to the Irish Catholic community in the US. Just like the 'Skins have many Native American employees and owners, and strong ties to the Native Commutity in the US. Oh wait, no they don't.

see how that works? one is a stereotype employed by the group itself to defang it. When you buy a Fightin' Irish shirt, the money goes, in large part, to help Americans of Irish descent. when you buy a Redskins shirt, your money goes to line a white guy's pockets. it's why I, as a white guy, can't put on black face and do a song and dance routine, no matter how good I am, but Eddie Murphy can do the same routine and it's funny.

on edit: I seem to recall that the University of Notre Dame was not amused when in both 1991 and 1997 the Stanford band employed both catholic stereotypes (in 91 the drum major dressed as a nun, in 97 they did a routine based on fighting irishmen and the potato famine) So even the saintly fighting Irish realize that it's one thing to make fun of yourself, a whole different thing when someone else makes fun of you, using the same stereotypes. So dressing as a nun for a parade is unacceptable to Notre Dame, but dressing in sacred garb and mocking native rituals is perfectly ok. can you explain the discrepancy?

[Blue State Bandit]

68. Good point. Go Washington Waseechus?

The use of a derogatory term to highlight self pride by the original target of such slurs should be left to their sole discretion. As you can see, I choose to reclaim one of the other "unsavory descriptions" assigned to Native Americans.

I sport this moniker as a badge of honor. But, I have the right to do so. The Blackfoot and Cherokee blood in my veins, as well as those whom lost their lives in battle, or souls at the Carlisle School (for NA assimilation) give me this right.

Personally, my only problem with a sports franchise using the term "Redskins" to name their football team is the fact that it is the official team of Washington D.C. The very city that the genocide of Native American peoples was coordinated from. If it was the "Sioux Falls Redskins", or the "Washington Wahseechus", I wouldn't really mind.

Football is a worthy sport to be associated with Native Americans. But this is a touchy issue.


http://home.epix.net/~landis/
http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/CarlislIn

[sofa king]

62. I've got a better deal.

Let's send all the Irish to dusty shitholes in the middle of nowhere, put the federal government in charge of their limited autonomy, then reneg on all agreements we make with them and steal the cash we're holding for them.

Then we'll name a football team the "Fucking Micks" instead of Fighting Irish, and we'll make sure to locate that team in the same city which is actually responsible for redressing the wrongs done to the fucking micks. And when opaque assholes who find that amusing start buying Fucking Mick merchandise, we won't actually share the revenue with the fucking micks. Instead, we'll use our massive media power to convince non-fucking micks that "fucking mick" isn't an offensive term.

And if the fucking micks buck up about it, who gives a shit? If the fucking micks mattered at all we wouldn't have named a football team after them.

[Nevernose]

90. ND was founded by Irish Catholics, and therefore makes sense

When you show me a picture of Geronimo in a football helmet playing quarterback, you'll have a point.

[toopers]

20. There was a team called the Atlanta Crackers.

eom

[One_Life_To_Give]

76. Didn't you hear about "The Fighting Whites"?

And their motto "Everything is going to be all White"

IIRC A native american professor at a Colorado institution (Don't remember which) put this on an intramural team. Unfortunatly the name was latter changed, before I could even get myself one of their T-Shirts.

[fishwax]

85. university of northern colorado

Here's a fan page--apparently you can still buy apparel ...http://www.robotwisdom.com/issues/whities.html

[Lindacooks]

3. Good for them.

And the Cleveland Indian's logo is equally as offensive.

[ktlyon]

86. more

[Craig3410]

104. I believe Cleveland, however, pays a tribe for use of the image.

nt

[Theodolite]

6. DC racism

I hate to introduce this into the argument. I am a card carrying indian of a federally recognized tribe, I also live in DC. One thing that confuses me is how so many black DC residents wear the Redskins hats and shirts. If I were to go to certain parts of DC with a negro-skin shirt or hat, I could be beaten severely. This is my complaint: DC blacks love to wear Redskins paraphernalia all the while demanding respect for their racial issues. I accuse the DC black population of hypocrisy. It disturbs me to see a black person sporting the Redskins logo. It lessens my respect for those blacks with a Redskins fetish and leads me to suspect they are just as racist or misguided as any negro-hating white person.

[rumpel]

12. I presume it is more ignorance

than anything else.

Many people neither know nor are informed, much less would ponder about the pain of other peoples that could possibly be associated with this objection, because they do not think it directly relates to them. Their only concern is probably "a team" to which they can pledge allegiance.
Your analogy could be the first step towards enlightenment.

[MzShellG]

28. Raise Awareness

I am sure most people are not familiar with derogatory meaning of the term "redskin". It's even news to me and I consider myself of average intelligence. Culture barriers appear to be the issue in this case as oppose to direct racism. I'm not aware of any particular conflict betwen the african-american and native-american communities. If I were a sports fan in that area, I might wear that as well, but after being enlightened about the true meaning, I would definitely throw it away in protest.

[Omaha Steve]

33. You could wear a negro league throwback jersey with pride there

Other than that, you are correct. I'm only 1/4 Cherokee. My Dad had to be pulled off and uncle of mine once that called him a half breed. My Dad was the product of a bigamist bootlegger in Southern Indiana. One of 13 kids between two wives. He never got past the third grade as he went to work to support the family in the time of the great depression. As a dumb Indian he was looked down on all his life, until he was drafted just before Japan bombed Pearl. The army made him an equal. His surviving family members still don't talk about the native part of their heritage.

The term "redskins" does bother many of my fellow native brothers and sisters. For that reason alone I say RENAME THE "REDSKINS. That is how things are done in a land of people that are equals.

[theHandpuppet]

43. Do you think geography is part of this problem?

That is, if you took a survey of folks living in D.C. how many would say they know any Native Americans? Or have Native Americans that live in their neighborhood, work at their places of employment, etc? In many eastern states, especially urban areas, Native American peoples are virtually "invisible" as it were. Some of this may be due to the fact that the native peoples in the eastern U.S. are more integrated into the more Eurocentric culture, having been dispossessed and displaced for much longer than western tribes. In the western part of this country you may find attitudes much different, I don't know. But certainly the identity of native peoples thrives in the plains and West as it does not in the East; the life and culture of the Native American is inexorably linked to what we all regard as the culture of the West.

So when you have little exposure to Native Americans as REAL people -- your neighbors, friends, co-workers -- perhaps this leads to what I would describe as a type of racial and cultural blindness.

I hope this doesn't come off as totally ignorant on my part, but you brought up a really interesting observation which has always puzzled me and I've wondered about this disconnection myself.

[Phoenix135]

9. Ah, I hate it when they refer to Native Americans

as "Indians", many NA I know find it offensive.

[rumpel]

11. Thank you, I was going to mention the same thing. n/t

[fishwax]

15. welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Frank Cannon]

24. I find the term "Native American" offensive...

for all the reasons cited below by American Indian activist Russell Means:

http://www.russellmeans.com/russell.html

---------------

I AM AN AMERICAN INDIAN, NOT A NATIVE AMERICAN!
January 16, 1998

I abhor the term Native American. It is a generic government term used to describe all the indigenous prisoners of the United States. These are the American Samoans, the Micronesians, the Aleutes, the original Hawaiians and the erroneously termed Eskimos, who are actually Upiks and Inupiaqs. And, of course, the American Indian.

The statistics used by the United States government to tell you how many "Native Americans" there are in this country include all of the above, the misnomer is everyone assumes, in the contiguous 48 states, that the total number of "Native Americans" is the total number of American Indians. Not true. There are approximately 1.7 million "Native Americans", of that number, there are approximately 1.2 million American Indians of which less than 600,000 live on Indian reservations.

I prefer the term American Indian because I know its origins. The word Indian is an English bastardization of two Spanish words, En Dio, which correctly translated means in with God. As an added distinction the American Indian is the only ethnic group in the United States with the American before our ethnicity.

At an international conference of Indians from the Americas held in Geneva, Switzerland at the United Nations in 1977 we unanimously decided we would go under the term American Indian. "We were enslaved as American Indians, we were colonized as American Indians and we will gain our freedom as American Indians and then we will call ourselves any damn thing we choose."

Finally, I will not allow a government, any government, to define who I am. Besides, anyone born in the Western hemisphere is a Native American.

[Odin2005]

34. LOL, What BS. They were called Indians because Colombus thought...

...he was in India. That guy is making shit.

[Zomby Woof]

37. Means is correct

India was called Hindustan in Columbus's time. There was no such thing as "Indians" as we know them today. The 'En Dios' explanation is actually correct, and therefore, 'American Indian' is not demeaning with this context in mind.

"Redskins" IS demeaning, and I hope it does change.

A Duwamish Indian (which are sadly not recognized by the federal government, despite their own Chief Seattle being the namesake of one of the largest cities in the U.S.) once told me he was not against Indian mascots as long as they are respectful. Therefore, "Chiefs" or "Braves" are okay, because they are positions of authority, power, and respect among their related tribes. "Thunderbird" is okay for northwest Indians because they are a positive symbol. "Redskins" is not, for racist reasons cited by others in this thread.

Indians are not some monolithic entity, and opinions certainly vary among various tribes and their members.

[Odin2005]

44. "India" has been used in Europe since Roman times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_India%27s_name

The name India is derived from the river Indus.

The original name of the river came from the fact that in the north-west of the subcontinent, there are seven main tributaries of the one river. The local inhabitants therefore called it Sapta-Sindhu, meaning the seven rivers. As the seven tributaries are part of the one river, the entire river system came to be known in time as Sindhu. In general, Sindhu also means any river or water body in Sanskrit.

Persian explorers visited the area even in ancient times, and the Iranian 'h' is cognate with Sanskrit 's'. Thus Sindhu became Hindu. Similarly, Sanskrit Asura (a spirit, later an evil spirit) is cognate with Ahura, the Supreme God of the early Iranian people.

The name of the river entered Greek from Persian, with the loss of the initial 'h', to become Ίνδός Indos, from which the Greeks derived their name for the region, Ίνδια India. The Latin form of Indos is Indus, the name by which the river system is still known in the West. Its name was given to the entire subcontinent by the Romans, who adapted it to the current India.

The word India is the form used by Europeans over the ages.

[JohMunich99]

58. This could be true

But it is Wikipedia. I mean you could have typed that in just now yourself. Better to find another source.

[ecstatic]

67. LOL nt

[Nevernose]

89. I have never met a single NA who found AI offensive

The refrain I've heard more than once, in fact, is, "Don't call me a native American. I'm an INDIAN, damnit!"

I think that by the end of the seventies, thanks to people like Leonard Peltier and the American Indian Movement calling attention to the plight of native peoples, the word "Indian" or term "American Indian" were largely reclaimed from the racists to reflect indigenous pride instead of Anglo racism.

That having been said, "redskin" is still used pejoratively, and thus the name of the team should be changed.

[Solon]

95. I use Native American because it is easier...

OK, let me see if I can clear things up, my first Girlfriend was Native American, my Best Friend in High School was Indian. Do you know the difference?

[Nevernose]

100. But that's context; also Colbert: "Which kind, Gandhi or Geronimo?"

In the situation you used, differentiating between the two "types" of Indians makes sense. But when I'm talking to someone who's either A)from India or B) of native descent, and we're both on the same page, what difference does it make?

I met a nice Indian girl at a Bollywood film I showed a few years ago, and I never gamble at Indian casinos. Do I really need to spell out the difference? It's about context, audience, and intent.

I mentioned Colbert mostly because I thought it was a funny line, and I really DID meet a nice Indian girl at a Bollywood show my old theater was playing. Her parents didn't mind that I wasn't Indian, wasn't Hindu, or that I had a kid: they had a major problem with the fact that, at the time, I was a slacker with a total lack of ambition. :)

[Solon]

102. Problem is this...

If I said my first girlfriend was Indian, and that my best friend in high school was Indian, as a statement of fact, that is true, however, it is also confusing. Unless I elaborated in that my Indian high school friend always brought lunch to school because we put beef in EVERYTHING, then its cleared up. For example, if you left out Bollywood in that comment you made, then about half of people would think American Indian, and other Indian nationality.

I remember a conversation I had with my buddy in high school where he was getting aggrevated when people asked him what tribe he was from, you have to understand that for most people in my area, most never met a Native American OR an Indian, talk about ignorance!

[Nevernose]

103. This is the Internet, of COURSE it's vague

And that's why I'm talking about context. It's only;y confusing unless the context in which it is being discussed is confusing, such as over the Internet(s) or the case of your friend in high school. We're beginning to see a different world, however. For instance, at the admittedly limited experience at the high school I teach at, we have not one single Indian. We do, however, have about 150 American Indians, about 5% of the student populace -- more than the white kids or the Asian kids. They prefer to be called Indians, or at the very least AMERICAN Indians.

And though these kids generally have never met a person of South Asian descent in their lives, Gandhi was an important part of middle school, and so they all know the difference between a Native American and an Indian.

Even on the INternet, if I posted a thread about Kashmir, would you assume "Indian" meant Native American or American Indian? And if I posted about the land rights of inhabitants prior to Anglo settlers, would you probably be correct in assuming that I was talking about the US?

Columbus was a putz, a genocidal maniac, and/or longitudinally challenged, but I don't think that changing the entire language of the last 500 years will overall help. We as a society need to work more on our attitude toward one another than our opinions on linguistics.

[Solon]

105. Maybe its a different experience than here...

Actually the context can be much different IRL. That is what I'm talking about, at my High School, my buddy was the ONLY Indian in the school, and my GF at the time the ONLY Native American. This was a school that was at least 90% white at the time(Mid-90s). The odd thing was that my GF would complain that people thought she was Asian, usually Japanese, talk about confusion and ignorance!

[elocs]

10. I went to college at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse

At that time, in the early 1970s, our nickname was the Indians, which is not uncommon here in Wisconsin. They eventually changed it to the Eagles and nobody has missed the Indians nickname. Eagles as a name is perfect since you can see so many Eagles here. In the late winter and early spring I can walk a block down to the river and see maybe 20 eagles or more on the ice or flying around. The funny thing is to see the gulls sitting in a group on the ice at the same time, constantly and nervously looking over their shoulders at the eagles. The eagles are waiting for fish, but every once in awhile one will dive bomb the gulls just to see them scatter. It's better than tv.

[w4rma]

13. Indians are from India. Native Americans are from America. (nt)

[Frank Cannon]

25. Actually, EVERYONE born in North, Central, or South America...

is a Native American, regardless of ancestry or skin color.

Which is just one reason a lot of American Indians I know hate the term.

[MUSTANG_2004]

60. Native American was a poor choice for replacement

I'm not sure what they should have used, but "Native American" isn't very precise. I mean, everyone who was born here is a native American. But the alternatives aren't all that great either:
"Indigenous American" Too weird
"American Aborigine" Too easily confused with the Australian aborigines

Personally, I don't see anything particularly offensive about "American Indian" but I'm also of the opinion that people should be able to decide what they want to be called, and if "Native American" is it, then so be it.

[fishwax]

16. I don't see how they're allowed to trademark redskin

it's history as a pejorative is scarcely in doubt, and yet some exception seems to be made for the NFL team.

[pokercat999]

17. Duh, exceptions are made for rich white guys in almost

everything in LIFE!

Think about it.......almost everything (in America)

I'm white
I'm a guy

if I was only rich.....sigh

:shrug: :shrug:

[fishwax]

23. true enough

I hope that they lose again this time around, though, without relief on appeal.

[robcon]

19. It's a trademark like Aunt Jemimia.

It's got a racist history. But trying to change it is difficult. Redskins (like Aunt Jemima) was never used except as a derogatory term.

The name should be changed.

[fishwax]

21. I remember when the trademark board ruled against the trademark

in the late 90s. It seemed clear enough at the time. I guess I missed it when that ruling was overturned on appeal, but apparently (according to the article) it was because the complainants had waited too long after the trademark was granted to raise the issue. I hope the trademark loses again this time around.

[toopers]

22. In the case of Aunt Jemima . . .

which came first, the name of the product or the derogatory application based upon on the image promoted by the company?

[Robb]

35. Interesting question, so I did some reading

Apparently the first Aunt Jemima was clearly a white man in blackface and a dress. One sociologist said it was an interesting paradox, as it "represented what white America celebrated about African American womanhood while simultaneously reinforcing the confining and controlling stereotype image of the Mammy."

[theHandpuppet]

46. The female version of "Uncle Tom"

At least according to this website: http://www.answers.com/topic/paki

Aunt Jemima / Aunt Jane / Aunt Mary / Aunt Sally / Aunt Thomasina
(U.S. Blacks) a black woman who "kisses up" to whites, a "sellout", female counterpart of Uncle Tom

Then there's this:

http://www.answers.com/topic/aunt-jemima
Aunt Jemima

Aunt Jemima is a trademark for pancake flour, syrup, and other breakfast foods. The trademark dates to 1893, although Aunt Jemima pancake mix debuted in 1889. Quaker Oats bought the brand in 1926. Aunt Jemima frozen products were licensed out to Pinnacle Foods Corporation in 1996.

The impetus for Aunt Jemima comes from a minstrelsy/vaudeville song of the same name. Chris L. Rutt of the Pearl Milling Company saw the song being sung by blackface performers Baker & Farrell wearing an apron and kerchief, and appropriated the character.

Aunt Jemima is depicted as a plump, smiling, bright-eyed black woman, originally wearing a kerchief over her hair. Originally, she was represented as a slave and was the most commonplace representation of the stereotypical "mammy" character.... MORE

[Zhade]

41. STOP IT!

That's TWICE I've agreed with you. It worries me.

:D

[Maine1991]

29. Not all Native Americans Find the Nane offensive.

I used to live in New Mexico, were I saw lots of Navaho's wearing Redskin sweatshirts. Not all Native Americans find the name offensive.

[LostinVA]

31. I know quite a few Oglala Lakota, and they all do

[robcon]

40. Of course, "not all" of any group think only one way

For me, it's the history of the name that decides it. Whether people currently are offended by it or not, no football team should carry a name that carries a pejorative history, IMO.

btw, you can see my logo - born in DC and a "Redskins" fan, but I think they should get another name.

[theHandpuppet]

73. There are also Log Cabin Republicans

Who didn't mind voting for Bush and Cheney. Should we abandon fighting for gay rights because some gay folks embrace the Republican platform, including some who are vehemently opposed to gay marriage?

BTW, I agree with you, robcon, but the point seems to be lost on too many folks. Maybe it's time to play the "substitute the word XXXX for XXXX" game. To be perfectly honest, though, I find some of the comments in this threads so offensive I wish it had been locked.

[smtpgirl]

63. My grandmother was half Blackfeet Indian & half French

I don't find the term "redskin" offensive either.

I am a native of the WDC area and I love the Resdkins.

BTW, I prefer the term American Indian too

[High Plains]

30. Most Indians I know could give a shit about this issue.

I live in South Dakota and know lots of Lakota folks. They say they have better things to worry about.

[Zhade]

32. They're both racist, but the Cleveland Indians mascot is way more so.

That offends me every time I have to run a game at work.

[brentspeak]

36. "Redskins" is offensive, but so is enforced political correctness

And there are much more pressing issues within the native American community that need attention.

[Raydawg1234]

48. yeah, Didn't Prescot Bush and his S&B buddies steal Geronimo's head?

[Zhade]

64. Are you native?

If not, should you really be telling us what we should focus on?

[Solon]

96. No offense, but anyone who complains about Political Correctness...

has been, in my experience, bitter white guys who are closet racists. Just my opinion of course.

[Raydawg1234]

38. Yeah, imagine a team calling themselves the "fighting negroes"

I can see where the native americans are coming from.

[robcon]

42. Huh? I don't think you get it at all.

Raydawg wrote: "Yeah, imagine a team calling themselves the "fighting negroes""

I'm Irish-American, and I am not offended by the name "Fighting Irish" of Notre Dame University. AFAIK, it has no history of ethnic disparagement.

The idea that someone who is "offended" by a name should have some right to change it is silly, IMO. Do Southerners get to be "offended" by the name NY Yankees?

The problem with the name Redskins is that it was ALWAYS used pejoratively against a group in the past, and so is not a worthy name today, whether some of today's Native Americans are "offended" by it or not.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northzax]

56. and if the team were owned and operated

by someone who could claim the term 'redskin' for their own, I'd have no problem with it. but since it is owned by a rich white guy, I have issues.

the Yankees, of course, are owned by yankees and in a yankee area of the country, the people who go to the games are yankees, etc. And Notre Dame has a strong affiliation with the Irish Catholic community in the US (although it was founded by French Catholics, of course) so if they want to use a name that is empowering for them, that's fine. the Redskins have no real connection, anymore to the Native community in teh Chesapeake region, and therefore, the name is exploitative.

[Raine]

45. TOTALLY agree

it's really offensive and should be changed, why go on with a name that is so insulting.

[Raydawg1234]

49. New name ideas: Washington Crooks, Washington Scumbags,

continue the list

[theHandpuppet]

50. The Washington Lobbyists, D.C. "Uniters", Washington Partisans...

... the Washington Scandals (or Scoundrels), Opus D.C., the Filibusters, the Washington Insiders, the Capitol Hill Connection, etc

[Blue_Tires]

51. Washington Senators

quick and to the point

[LostinVA]

71. That one's been taken

[Blue_Tires]

80. but it could still be used again

more than a few cities have shared football/baseball names--ala the St. Louis Cardinals, the Boston Braves, and the New York Giants

[Raydawg1234]

52. Washington Intern Boners

[northzax]

57. well, since the team plays in Maryland

and is based in Virginia, how about a name that recognizes that, instead of my fair city?

[Blue State Bandit]

69. The Washington Waseechus

[underpants]

79. He should just get it over with and name them the " Snyders"

EGomanical POS

[KamaAina]

94. Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons

Gregg Easterbrook, now at nfl.com, changed it from "Chesapeake Bay Region Indigenous Persons" after the Ravens arrived in the Chesapeake Bay Region. This one solves both the ethnic and geographic ssues, while also managing to be utterly ridiculous.

[Endangered Specie]

53. What about the Atlanta Braves "tomahawk chop"?

That one is gonna be hard to give up.

[Raydawg1234]

54. I don't think the braves is an offensive name. you see Washington

focuses on the "red skin" stereotype. That is what is offensive.

[LostinVA]

72. Some Native leaders have come out against that already

[cory817]

59. hogs/pigs

I always thought if they changed the name they should use Hogs or something else pig related, that's already pretty much their second nickname anyway with fans wearing hog noses etc, and it can be a subtle stab at those politician pigs in Washington D.C. The Washington Senators also works but with the color scheme and Senator mascot they might look too much like USC.

[KamaAina]

93. Yes! The Washington Swine!

:rofl:

[yurbud]

65. can't we throw them a bone after genocide of 95%?

[yurbud]

66. most indians aren't picky about name, so

When they say something is offensive, we should pay attention.

I haven't run into any that care if you call them native american as opposed to indian, which is why I think we should take redskin more seriously.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

70. Next target -- the state of Indiana

Home of the "Native Americanapolis 500"

[trogdor]

74. Call 'em the Washington Mice.

Horray for the pink and white!

/carlin

[FredStembottom]

75. How 'bout a quick change to: RedNECKS ?

I love it! They could have Daisy Duke as their mascot!

[electron_blue]

82. perfect!

[ItNerd4life]

83. I love it!

I wonder if anybody would oppose the name?

[ileus]

77. Hope they make it to the playoffs this year...

[warrens]

78. Redskin is ridiculous

They're hurting their cause by trying to stretch it to Braves, Indians, etc. are also derogatory. Redskins is a slur, and it always has been. It has never had a positive connotation. I have no idea who thought that up as a name for a team, but they must have been racist, stupid or both.

[Mabus]

81. The term "redskins" means a bounty paid for the head/scalps of Indians

That's why it is so offensive. Up until the early 1900's, if you turned in a scalp or the head of American Indian to the proper authorities, you were given money. Often there were price differences between the amount paid for women and children and adult males.

Proclamation issued in 1755

Given at the Council Chamber in Boston this third day of November 1755 in the twenty-ninth year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord George the Second by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France, and Iceland, King Defender of the Faith.

By His Honour's command
J. Willard, Secry.
God Save the King

Whereas the tribe of Penobscot Indians have repeatedly in a perfidious manner acted contrary to their solemn submission unto his Majesty long since made and frequently renewed.

I have therefore, at the desire of the House of Representatives ... thought fit to issue this Proclamation and to declare the Penobscot Tribe of Indians to be enimies, rebels, and traitors to his Majesty. And I do hereby require his Majesty's subjects of the Province to embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing, and destroy all and every one of the aforesaid Indians.

And wereas the General Court of this Province have voted that a bounty.... be granted and allowed to be paid out of the Province Treasury.... The premiums of bounty following viz:

For every scalp of a male Indian brought in as evidence of their being killed as aforesaid, forty pounds.

For every scalp of such female Indian or male Indian under the age of twelve years that shall be killed and brought in as evidence of their being killed as aforesaid, twenty pounds.

http://www.aics.org/mascot/redskins.html

Redskins = genocide.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

97. Thank you for bringing that up....

Anyone who knows the history of the bounties put out for dead "redskins" can't help but be offended by the term. :mad:

[Mabus]

98. I remembered what my elders told me

One day, when I was in college, I decided to look it up. They were right. I remember one book that I ran across that said bounties were still being paid into the early part of the 20th century.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

99. The bounties are one of the most disgusting things ever done...

by our country. I am a big believer in karma, and have long felt the troubles experienced by the US have a lot to do with its cruel and violent beginnings. America was born out of a lot of suffering, pain, and injustice.

It's long past time we correct the karmic balance towards the peoples who were here before. :(

[minkyboodle]

106. thanks for posting

This is an angle to the story that is not
emphasized enough in this discussion. IMO once
you take the bounty part into consideration there
is just absolutely no way to justify the name
(not that there ever really was).

[SaveElmer]

84. "Doc" Walker...former 'Skins star refuses to use the name...

He is a co-host here in DC on the John Thompson show...calls them the Burgundy and Gold...thinks real name is offensive...

[minkyboodle]

107. thats for pointing that out

I noticed Doc said Burgundy and Gold a lot but didn't realize it was by a deliberate choice.
Way to Doc!!!

[barb162]

87. I agree with the Native Americans.

They're perfectly right to challenge this and I hope they win.


"The term 'redskin' was and is a pejorative, derogatory, denigrating, offensive, scandalous, contemptuous, disreputable, disparaging and racist designation for a Native American person," the complaint says."

[fishwax]

88. Bill Plaschke just gave some pub to this lawsuit on ESPN's Around the Horn

For those unfamiliar with the show, it's a loosely scored competition involving four sportswriters. The winner at the end of the show gets 20 or 30 seconds for the soapbox of their choice.

On today's show, the winner was Plaschke of the LA Times, and he used his face time to agree with the lawsuit and explain why he thought the name should have been removed long ago. A pleasant surprise, I thought.

[snooper2]

91. Just call them the Redscabs..

Peel them back and watch em' bleed....

[bmbmd]

92. Along the same vein, the NCAA

has decreed that my alma mater, the McMurry Indians, are insensitive and the name denotes racist overtones. The NCAA has decreed that tiny McMurry change mascots and refrain from calling our home stadium "The Reservation". Having exhausted the appeal process, McMurry now faces a decision to leave the NCAA or comply with this edict. The Pride of the Western Prairie, spirit of honour, truth, and right-must make fundamental changes to her athletic program.

Meanwhile, the Florida State Seminoles get to keep their name.

[5thGenDemocrat]

101. Central Michigan "Chippewa" alumni here

The NCAA tried that shit with us (for, I think, the third time) and we shut 'em down (for the third time). Of course, we asked the Chippewa elders some thirty years ago if they were cool with the name and they were/are -- provided we don't dress some white kid up in greasepaint and regalia.
We don't have a "mascot" at CMU and we wear our name with boundless pride. As it should be.
John
In fact, the Chippewas give the university thousands and thousands of dollars a year from the proceeds of their Mount Pleasant casino. It's a healthy, symbiotic relationship.

[HuffleClaw]

108. that fact that the article itself illustrates how SOME terms are verboten

with this, "equated the name Redskin with the "N-word."", is just funny. that there is even a debate about this astounds me.