BBC: Venezuela 'to sever Israel ties'

[Monkie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5258722.stm

Venezuela 'to sever Israel ties'

The President of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, has said his country is likely to sever ties with Israel in protest at its military offensive in Lebanon.

Mr Chavez said he had "no interest" in maintaining relations with Israel, whom he has accused of committing genocide.

~snip~

In a televised speech, Mr Chavez said he had "no interest in maintaining diplomatic relations, or offices, or businesses, or anything with a state like Israel".

Mr Chavez rounded on Israel at the weekend, accusing the Jewish state of committing a "new Holocaust".

"Israel has gone mad. It's attacking, doing the same thing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people that they have criticised - and with reason - the Holocaust. But this is a new Holocaust."

Chavez has spoken!

[evox]

1. Chavez is a free man

A free man can speak the truth.

[jpkenny]

20. Speaking truth to power. He hasn't said anything different than some

Israelis and supporters have said.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Chavez is a propagandist!

He is a liar, to boot!

[Oversea Visitor]

6. He is an opportunist

But he smart enough to see which way wind blowing.
Liar he is not

When ever we do something we start a ripple.
That action and ripple create a reality.
Like it or not one need to think of what our action will result in.
Present path by Isreal foolhardy.
In trying to defend themself this way them might have instead created a reality much worse for themself.
Time will tell.
We might see war between the ARAB LEAGUE of 22 countries and Isreal.

In event that is happen the US will be alone in support of Isreal.
But will US risk a war with all 22 countries.
Better you go ask bush.
No one going to bail him out on this one.

Isreal sadly might be the ultimate loser in all this.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. He is a liar.

And, I agree...he is an opportunist.

As for the rest...I think that is the ultimate plan...rid the world of Israel. It will make so many happy...it might even make some :rofl:.

[Name removed]

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[KaptBunnyPants]

38. Care to provide an example of him lying.

Or is this just like how he is anti-semitic, he is because you say he is?

[Bretttido]

50. He doesn't like Israel killing people, therefor he is a Liar!!!!

:shrug: Just condemn Israel's actions and the same group of 3-4 people come out of the woods to defend them to the death. It's quite sad really.

[Behind the Aegis]

52. That is not what makes him a liar...

...but then again, hate blinds some so completely they can't see the writing on the wall, or the OP, as is the case here.

[Bretttido]

56. Instead of empty rhetoric, how about pointing out the lies?

[Behind the Aegis]

58. It is in the OP!

[Name removed]

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[0007]

73. I'm waiting!!

[Behind the Aegis]

75. for?

[0007]

80. ....for another asinine statment.

[Behind the Aegis]

89. .

"Mr Chavez said he had "no interest" in maintaining relations with Israel, whom he has accused of committing genocide.

Mr Chavez rounded on Israel at the weekend, accusing the Jewish state of committing a "new Holocaust"."

Israel has not committed genocide. There is no "new Holocaust." Those are untruths, which is another word for "lies." A person who says lies is a "liar."

[dionysus]

103. thats right, those lebanse don't count as people,

and destroying their access to water, food, and medicine is just brotherly love, right?

[Behind the Aegis]

104. Yes, that's clearly what I said.

:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

51. It is in the OP snip.

I said nothing about him being anti-Semitic, now did I? Conflating.

[KaptBunnyPants]

55. So that is a no then.

Very gracious of you to agree that you have absolutely zero examples of Chavez lying. Maybe there is hope for the Middle East, rarely do two sides come to such a robust agreement on a political discussion board.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. It is in the OP.

There is no "new Holocaust." That is a LIE! Can you not comprehend that fact?

[Name removed]

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[GuillermoX71]

95. Chavez said

that Israel was committing genocide and a "new holocaust."

Those are the lies.

[KaptBunnyPants]

100. Genocide and ethnic cleansing are often used interchangably

For example, see the Bosnian campaign. At worst, one could accuse him of hyperbole. Suffice it to say that we know Israel is systematically destroying the quality of life in Lebanon by targeting civillians and civillian infastructure, and when Serbia was doing that to Kosovo, few had any qualms about calling it genocide. Whether of not this turns into a Holocaust is an open question; if one has to make historical comparisons this looks more like the cleansing of the Americas of its indiginous populations to me.

[lumpy]

45. What has Chavez lied about ?

Precisely ?

[Behind the Aegis]

53. It is in the OP.

[TheWatcher]

86. Then copy and paste it or point it out.

You're cornered.

Put up or shut up.

[Behind the Aegis]

90. .

"Mr Chavez said he had "no interest" in maintaining relations with Israel, whom he has accused of committing genocide.

Mr Chavez rounded on Israel at the weekend, accusing the Jewish state of committing a "new Holocaust"."

Israel has not committed genocide. There is no "new Holocaust." Those are untruths, which is another word for "lies." A person who says lies is a "liar."

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

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[ERF]

15. The Arab League and for that matter any Arab nation will

not attack Israel. This is a speculation not based in reality. They would get annhilated alone and crushed all together. And, different from previous wars, they wouldn't have the Soviets to rearm them at a low cost.

Besides, the American military now stands between them and a lot of countries, so there would be complete air superiority on the part of Israel. And that would not make the strategic situation of any Arab country look very promising.

Moreover, what could war aims possibly be? Israel is currently the only nation in the region with nuclear weapons. It is estimated that they have between 120 - 200 warheads. If an Arab attack progressed to the point of threatening the existence of the Jewish state (an almost impossible scenario), they would use these bombs to destroy all of the major population centers in the Arab world and devaste the regimes.

Thus such a war is currently impossible. The biggest true danger for regioinal conflict would be if Syria or Iran were to arm a terrorist group with chemical or nuclear weapons. Then Israel would have to choose a response in which the Jewish state itself would launch a strike against all of the hostile Arab nations.

[Oversea Visitor]

16. Likely they can

Loose all their nuclear
But that will assure their complete destruction.
A nuclear bomb might be mighty but it does not kill all.

The fear of a nuclear threat is real but at some point if one does not stop the bullying one got nowhere else to go.

The world witness Afghanistan
Does not matter if there is proof of OBL guilt or not
Now even your own FBI say got no evidence
So now spin Taliban evil, it is such a transparent lie.
Then Iraq and the none existance WMD.
Now Lebanon and the excuse of provocation to destroy anyone country.

If you think the ARAB LEAGUE don not see this as back into a corner you are WRONG.
They wont back away from this.
The question is what happen when both side wont back down.
How far the ante be up
It might be the ARAB LEAGUE goverment has no choice in this
They either act or see themself drag into street by mob and hang high and dry.
As for the American you take a hand in this way other players jump in.
So it is 22 against Isreal or if US come in who knows how many against 2.

What ever it might be when the chip are down all look at what is the best outcome and pick side to acheive best outcome.
At the present scenarioes Isreal/US rogue nations.
Maybe when chips all down other decide better course to remove such threat.
So who end up winner.

Life will just carry on you know
With or without US/Isreal.
The question here is wheather it is a life of peace or perpetual war.
The choice here very simple and it is peace.

[ERF]

19. First even OBL himself has taken credit for the 9/11 attack

so to imply that there is no proof is absurd and get you quickly labelled as a kook.

Secondly the Arab league is nothing. It has no political power to act, it is even more of a paper tiger than the EU. 22 nations will not attack Israel.

Lastly, the Israeli military is so far superior to all of the others in the region that it would easily win a conventional war. Perhaps this is something you are having difficulty comprehending.

That much said, I agree that peaceful solution would be ideal.

What do you think it would take for Israel to live in harmony with its neighbors?

[Bretttido]

82. Not True

"First even OBL himself has taken credit for the 9/11 attack".

FAT OBL took credit for the 9/11 attacks. Do some research with regards to facial comparisons between FAT OBL and the real OBL and you'll probably feel pretty duped.

[ERF]

94. If the conspiracy is as grand as you imply it is and

the administration is in total control of everything what do you think the true aims are? What is the end game?

[Bretttido]

96. I'm not into conspiracy theories

So I don't have a frickin' clue. All I know is that FAT OBL admitted to 9/11, not OBL.

[MrPrax]

24. Don't give them any ideas...

The puppetmasters can't be trusted -- the 'nuke' thing might actually be the end game in all this...we ARE dealing with fanatics who ultimately believe in sacrificial calculus.

But welcome to DU -- :hi:

[ERF]

28. Finally a welcome. Thanks.

Oh and nuclear war in the ME is exactly what "THE BASE" wants in America.

[martymar64]

27. Israel may have alot of toys but

Who do they get their oil from? Escalating tensions could possibly lead embargos against them. No fuel, no war.

[ERF]

29. Israel gets is oil from a lot of places. Primarily Russia and

the former USSR states. They generally purchase it on the world market.

Since they don't have diplomatic relations with most the countries that export it, you are right, it would be complicated.

However, I don't believe that Israel's allies in Europe and North America would let them run out. Just won't happen.

Also on the world market it is often difficult to identify who the end buyer is. A global embargo would be necessary to create a shortage dramatic enough to cut the supply for military needs and the Saudis arent going to play that game. Besides, securing the Saudi fields is a relatively easy thing to do.

A naval blockage wouldn't work because Israel has air and naval superiority.

So, your scenario represents a lot of fantasy, but not a major strategic concern.

[Name removed]

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[ERF]

31. What do you mean? I really don't understand your comment.

[Name removed]

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[Phx_Dem]

43. Your "point" is wrong.

There is no ethnic cleansing in Leb or the OTs. The "slogan" you are repeating is an anti-semitic slur.

[Name removed]

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[Phx_Dem]

49. familiar with site

they represent far right settlers. They don't represent the other 90%+ of Israelis.

I did not call you anti-semitic, but you stating that I enjoy death is certainly an unwarranted attack.

[martymar64]

54. I apologize for that second remark, it was unwarranted

There's alot of emotion going around with this issue and unfortunately, I'm not immune to it. My anger is more out of despair for the lives of children lost on both sides and the loss of any chance at real peace.
I have been called antisemitic by others here, so I'm a little sensitive to it.
With the way things are spinning out of control over there, I'm having a hard time seeing how this will possibly end positively. The whole religious dynamic is what partially justifies my atheism. No god would approve of any of this.
IMO, everything has gone downhill since Rabin was assassinated. The opportunity for peace is gone for at least another generation or two. It makes me very sad.

[Phx_Dem]

61. Thanks for the explanation

My way of coping has been to avoid threads that upset me a lot. Thanks for the apology, btw.

[martymar64]

63. I wish I could avoid it, but I can't

My conscience won't allow me. I'm sure it is the same for you and many others here on both sides of the issue.
The whole situation definitely upsets me but I wouldn't want to know the person that would be cavalier about this.
My one hope is that those of us here in the US on opposite sides of this issue can see past our differences to do what needs to be done here, defeat the * Evil Empire.

Peace to You and Yours

[Phx_Dem]

64. Agree with you 100%

If people like us don't stand up to the neo-cons who will?

[Behind the Aegis]

59. Mexico, Norway, and the UK.

[gorbal]

35. No, but countries like Iran just might

And if Iran and Syria gets pulled into the war....what will happen next?

[ERF]

62. Oil will go up to about $200 dollars a barrel if Iran

cuts is supplies. The war would then be over in about 2 weeks and Israel would have completely destroyed those two countries military (and a great deal of their infrastructure). That is the best case scenario. Worst case Iran has some tricks up their sleeve and then the US military would get involved with greater loss of life, the destruction and occupation of Iran.

Syria has no real military capacity to speak of. Both nations would be destroyed even in a best case and they know it. Thus, they will not choose those options.

[Name removed]

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[damntexdem]

70. Hmm, from the evidence, he is a truth teller --

as seen in his characterization of Israel. I hope more countries follow Venezuela's lead.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. No, I don't think so.

Just because you buy his propaganda, doesn't make what he said any less of a lie.

[TheWatcher]

87. And you can't seem to point out the lie, so therefore you aren't an more

credible.

[Behind the Aegis]

88. Watch THIS

"Mr Chavez said he had "no interest" in maintaining relations with Israel, whom he has accused of committing genocide.

Mr Chavez rounded on Israel at the weekend, accusing the Jewish state of committing a "new Holocaust"."

Israel has not committed genocide. There is no "new Holocaust." Those are untruths, which is another word for "lies." A person who says lies is a "liar."

[Oversea Visitor]

3. He is not going to be the only country to do so.

He is just damn early with it.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[HongKonger]

10. Good

And so he should. He's broken the back of the oligarchy in Venezuela - a very Bolivarian move on his part. He doesn't like what he sees (as most people in the world don't) and has stuck his middle finger up at Bush and Olmert because... because he can.

Venezuela has more oil than any country in the world if one includes the Orinoco thick oil (tar sands) on top of tap ready crude.

[Oversea Visitor]

11. Woah

From Hong Kong
:hug:

Welcome, here got 2 reality

One side got feet on ground
One side mind in box.

[tritsofme]

12. Methinks Chavez doesn't live in a reality based community

A "new Holocaust"? Absurd.

I don't think Mr Chavez understands what the Holocaust actually was.

[LostinVA]

13. Of course he understands what the Holocaust was

And, he is correct that the situation in Lebanon is turning into a holocaust. And, what is going on in Lebanon is definitely ethnic cleansing, and hopefully won;'t turn into all out genocide.

The bombing of the refugee center yesterday is the final straw with me. The Israeli government's actions have went from war crimes to all-out evilness.

[Name removed]

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[Aridane]

23. Hear hear!

I couldn't agree more!
And the sheer arrogance of the Israeli government is nothing less than despicable!

[Hoping4Change]

44. Hi Aridane welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Aridane]

92. Thank you!

It's good to be here!

[Nihil]

93. Thank you for responding ...

.. before our resident zealots deleted my post.

Nothing offensive in it. Nothing that contravened DU rules.
(Except possibly the new rule that one cannot dare to criticise Israel)

Welcome to DU but be warned that free speech is a little less so at
the moment.

[Name removed]

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[NoodleyAppendage]

67. Holocaust result of dehumanization. Israel has never dehumanized...

I mean, who would dare state that Israel's entrenched approach to non-Jews was evidence of dehumanization. We all know that the lives of Lebanese are not as valuable as those of Israelis. That's not evidence of an undercurrent of dehumanization, is it?

J

[Onlooker]

14. Chavez's reactionary foreign politics

I think he was right to pull his ambassador, but to compare Israeli action to the Holocaust is simply sensationalism. Let's not forget that Hezbelloh is a reactionary religious group that subscribes to the brand of Islam espoused by Ayatollah Khomeini. Also, a large number of Lebanese want the military wing of Hezbelloh out of Lebanon so that Lebanon become a free and indepedent state again. While Chavez' domestic policies seem to be really good, his foreign policy is sure to alienate a large number of progressives and replace them with religious nutcases.

[lumpy]

48. Since when has Lebanon been a free

and independent state ? Israel has been invading Lebanon since 1978, 1993, 1996. Finally Israel got the hell out in 2000 giving up control of a portion of Lebanon that they held for 18 years.

[Aridane]

17. The way I see it President Chavez is free to make his own decisions!

If he chooses to sever ties with Israel, that is his right, as the leader of an independent country!

I don't always agree with everything Chavez does (like his recents trips to Iran and Belarus) but I think more countries should follow suit and join him in condemning Israel for its heinous war crimes (not that I IN ANY WAY, condone what Hezbollah is doing either). ¡Viva Chávez!

I am truly appalled to see the way the world stands by and watches a country being systematically destroyed by its neighbour. It is just SICKENING!!! Support for Hezbollah by the Lebanese can only grow now and I very much doubt that is what Israel had in mind at the outset.....

Peace!

[cali]

18. For the sake of consistency

shouldn't Chavez and other nations do the same regarding the U.S.? Iraq after all, is far worse even than Lebanon?

[Aridane]

21. Good point!

You make a valid point there. But which nations have the cojones to stand up to the US in such a way?
And what's more, there would be very little room left for diplomacy if we all went round severing ties with countries we strongly disagree with. But in this particular case, I can't take issue with Chavez's actions.

[MrPrax]

25. Yup n/t

[gorbal]

36. Then he would lose his last barganing chip

What I think he should do is sell his oil to us CHEAPER! That way he will tick off Bush's oily buddy friends who are partly responsible for at least half the devastation in the middle east, plus it will further win the hearts and minds of Americans, who will come to see him in a totally different way at the gas pump:)

[Phx_Dem]

77. Great idea! nt

[Name removed]

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[Snivi Yllom]

32. meanwhile Chavez kindles a Bush-Lieberman like relationship w/ Iran

Chavez and Ahmadinejad are becoming quite the close buddies. What's wrong with this picture?

Chavez loves Chavez.

[KaptBunnyPants]

39. Chavez likes for people to run their own countries.

Support for national governments is hardly an unusual position. He, and all other people of vision, recognize that empire is a foolish idea which is doomed to fail, and has wisely decided to provide support for those countries that do not rely on imperial forces to maintain their current government. So anywhere that we go trying to knock someone else's country down, he's already there trying to work with them to provide a united front against invasion. I'm glad someone out there has that kind of courage.

[Snivi Yllom]

41. So why is Chavez so insistent on knocking Israel down?

inconsistent at best

[KaptBunnyPants]

42. He's not, he just won't support their slaughter of civilians

and the targeting of civilian infrastructure - war crimes at best. America is the last great Imperial power, and unless the situation has changed drastically in the 15 minutes it has been since I last checked, we have no plans on invading Israel. Hence no sign of solidarity with Israelis.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

69. Well, Chavez just said something Ahmadinejad will not like.

He called Israel's action "a new Holocaust."

Therefore, he believes there WAS a Holocaust.

Ahmadinejad's not gonna like that. Oooooooo.

[Snivi Yllom]

72. true, another thing

at least Chavez is only severing ties.

Ahmadinejad puts his fingers in his ears, and goes LA LA LA LA LA Israel does not exist as a state.

[Matilda]

33. Self-deleted.

[Tom Joad]

37. What is taking place in Lebanon and Gaza is a great crime against

humanity, no doubt about that.

[David__77]

46. Excellent!

Egypt, Jordan, and others should follow suit. Why maintain the illusion of normalcy? Isolate Israel to the maximum possible extent.

[Phx_Dem]

79. Egypt and Jordan have important economic ties to Israel

So don't hold your breath waiting for a boycott.

[Endangered Specie]

65. ah the world doth seem to be divinding itself in two pretty well.

[NoodleyAppendage]

66. Well..he's clearly anti-semetic. How DARE he criticize Israel!

See. Here's how the game is played.

1.) Israel gets a complete pass on any and all behavior.

2.) Those who do not support or dare to criticize Israel are anti-semetic.

3.) "Anti-semetic" thought is banned, which allows Israel to perpetuate its behavior without criticism.

J

[jseankil]

76. He's goes over the top again and again

This time he's claiming Israel is committing genocide, the guy needs to give it a rest. Don't like the military operation fine but to claim genocide or and a "new holocaust" is taking place causes him to lose his credibility...not that he had any left.

[breakaleg]

78. He's not the first.

Here is a strong argument for just that fact.


http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis1.html

[gula]

99. Hear, hear

Hopefully he won't be the last.

[hogwyld]

101. The world would be a LOT better off

If the rest of the world severed it's diplomatic relations as well. Israel need to be severely punished for it's atrocities, and brought to it's knees. But, that will never happen with the evil empire in power.

[Megahurtz]

68. Hugo a-Go-Go!!!

:applause:

[DemReadingDU]

81. K&R

[IndianaGreen]

83. Viva Chavez! (The Israeli Left opposes the war too!)

Last update - 00:41 10/08/2006

Meretz: Cabinet's tragic mistake may unnecessarily lengthen war

By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Service

The political left in Israel slammed the Wednesday afternoon cabinet decision to widen the military ground offensive in Lebanon.

Meretz MK Ran Cohen called the move "unfortunate and dangerous." He said continued operations will "increase the large number of victims and will not solve the problem."

Meretz MK Zehava Gal-On added the decision "will distance the chances of a cease-fire and of quiet in the northern communities."

Meretz Chairman MK Yossi Beilin said the cabinet "made a tragic mistake that is liable to unnecessary lengthen the war? Rather than taking advantage of the opportunity to leave Lebanon and let its army deploy in the south, Israel is entering deeper into Hezbollah's trap on the verge of a war of attrition on the ground."

Hadash MK Mohammad Barakeh said the cabinet decision is "insanity testifying to military arrogance." He said Israel was closing the window of opportunity that was opened by the Lebanese government.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/748413.html

[stepnw1f]

84. Kick for Hugo....

"Israel has gone mad. It's attacking, doing the same thing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people that they have criticised - and with reason - the Holocaust. But this is a new Holocaust."

Yes it's getting there. The Israeli government's hatred has become a monster.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[RCinBrooklyn]

102. Israel is clearing the way for a U.S. attack on Iran. I'm with Chavez.

[Judi Lynn]

105. Venezuela to send 20 tons of humanitarian aid to Lebanon

UPDATED: 11:20, August 08, 2006
Venezuela to send 20 tons of humanitarian aid to Lebanon

Venezuela will deliver to Lebanon more than 20 tons of humanitarian aid, coordinated by the country's Foreign Ministry and the Disasters and Civil Protection Administration (DCPA), the DCPA said on Monday.

The DCPA national director, Antonio Rivero, said food, drinking water and medicines would be sent using the same Boeing 707 and Conviasa 737-300 of the Air Force, which repatriated more than 500 Venezuelans fleeing Israel's bombardment of Lebanon.

Doctors and paramedics will travel with the aid.

"This is the aid that we have been requested due to the armed conflict in the Middle East," Rivero told reporters at Simon Bolivar International Airport in Maiquetia, just outside the capital Caracas.
(snip/...)

http://english.people.com.cn/200608/08/eng20060808_290988.html

[PATRICK]

106. So which is it?

Chavez allying himself with the Islam-fascists or the commies? You won't see any direct discussion of this because it would entail the anti-Chavez rhetoric canceling itself out until some unpleasant truths remain, namely a smart, aggressive realignment against the Us by threatened nations, threatened for their resources not because of their ideologies(unless you generally mean populism or just a nation concerned about it sown citizens).