Johnson declares victory over McKinney

[onehandle]

Henry C. “Hank” Johnson declared victory soon at 11:05 p.m. in his campaign against U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney.

Johnson had 59 percent of the vote compared with 41 percent for McKinney, with 89 percent of precincts reporting.

“I feel really good about where are,” Johnson said about 11 p.m. He said he believes that “soon we will be able to declare victory.”

Supporters like Brandon Bragg were thrilled by the results.

“I think Hank is the right man at the right time for the right job,” he said. “I was energized when I heard his message.”

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/elections/entries/2006/08/08/mckinney_losing.html

[leesa]

1. There's something real funky going on with this election

Like her or hate her, this election is not clean.

[natrat]

2. what do you expect ? it's the american south meets diebold

[Dob Bole]

117. So you're saying that computers and slavery caused McKinney to lose?

I thought it was race-baiting, hitting a policeman, and being out of touch with her constituents.

But that's just me. I like my Georgia Dem. congressman just fine, and I'll vote for him in the fall.

[GeorgiaDem69]

121. Outstanding!

Couldn't agree more.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

134. It really is time for you to get behind the Dem candidate

anything else is disloyalty to the party.

[EFerrari]

141. Loyalty isn't the issue here. The issue is corrupted elections

which usually occur at the expense of brown people, and which now, thanks to vapor voting machines, can happen at the expense of Democrats, period.

[Critters2]

143. So, Johnson isn't brown enough for you? nt

[EFerrari]

145. Excuse me?

:shrug:

[Critters2]

147. How was a race which chose a "brown person"

at the expense of brown people? Or don't you consider Johnson sufficiently "brown"?

[EFerrari]

149. I was talking about the systematic disenfranchisement

of minority VOTERS in these heah United States.

[Critters2]

151. You weren't talking about the McKinney/Johnson race? nt

[EFerrari]

155. See #130. n/t

[muryan]

152. I'm fairly sure that Johnson won by a large enough margin

to silent any "voting irregularities" argument. Mckinney is just trying to play the victim...again. I'm glad that she was ousted from her incumbent chair and happy to see a competent candidate in her place. I understand there are some minorities that are turned away, but it is not in the extremely large number that you are implying. Voter fraud has been a popular theory since the 1800's and I'm sure it will stay that way.

[EFerrari]

154. There is a mountain a literature which shows it is clearly

not a theory.

[muryan]

161. Id like to see this mountain of literature

But im guessing its all from third party websites, which have the same credibility as bush in my opinion. So im guess that mountain is just really all mole hill of conspiracy.

[illumn8d]

162. I would like to see ONE credible source

That this election was rigged.

[EFerrari]

165. Voters started calling in complaints within the first hour

of voting that their votes were registering for the other candidate. The McKinney campaign didn't start this, the VOTERS did.

The point is, we don't know. Is that good enough for you? It isn't for me. If I work my tail off for a candidate, I'd like to know if we win or if we lose, straight up.

[illumn8d]

167. None of those complaints have been substantiated

This is from Raw Story:

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/McKinney_campaign_claims_name_left_off_0808.html

[EFerrari]

172. It an interesting situation. SOS Cathy Cox seems to have a

special relationship with Diebold, so she's not exactly neutral on this issue. A DUer in the Election Forum posted a picture of Ms. Cox on a piece of Diebold promotional lit. This isn't it but, has some of the flavor.

Finally, the fact that those complaints can't either be substantiated OR dismissed should make us stop and think. What happens in November? What about November 2008?

[illumn8d]

178. This proves nothing

You have not supplied any evidence of your claims regarding THIS election. These allegations can be dismissed, because there is nothing to back them up.

And yes, it should make us think about November and 2008. We should think about the consequences of crying wolf.

[EFerrari]

180. I haven't made any "claims" about this election. I have

pointed out that there were complaints from voters and that we have no way of verifying the election results.

[Critters2]

185. Well, you lost, straight up nt

[EFerrari]

193. What a great non sequitur. n/t

[Critters2]

195. You wanted to know whether you won or lost.

I'm letting you know...You lost. How is that a non sequitur?

And why don't you accept that your candidate lost?

[EFerrari]

196. Um, because I was speaking in general terms about any election

not about this election.

lol

[Critters2]

201. This thread is about this election

lol :eyes:

[EFerrari]

202. "This thread is about this election."

There's that darn "election" word again.

[Critters2]

203. Okay, I concede

Every bad thing that ever happened to McKinney has been a racist, GOP conspiracy enabled by Diebold. She's never made a single misstep--not that fight with the cop, not her father's anti-Semitic remarks, not her friendship with Farrakan, nothing. She's the greatest political mind to ever hit the Democratic Party and the South is completely lost without her.

And Hank Johnson is a GOP mole and full member of PNAC. He calls * several times a day for marching orders.

And all elections that your candidates don't win are stolen. People you like are absolutely unable to lose without the help of Diebold.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

204. I think you are responding to the wrong poster. n/t

[EFerrari]

164. You might start with Mr. Conyers' report;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/089733535X/sr=1-3/qid=1155149579/ref=pd_bbs_3/104-0212387-0820731?ie=UTF8&s=books

You could then move on to the GAO report. That would be a good place to start.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf

No one that I know of has called Mr. Conyers or the GAO "conspiracy theorists".

If you prefer video, there's a good short documentary called "Got Democracy" that has been running on LINK this week. And, most anyone in the Election Reform forum could give you more. There are at least three other works that came out this year by very credible academics and elections observers. And a host of videos, panels on BookTV, etc.

[muryan]

166. Im talking about this particular election

not a history of diebold (i already know it).

[EFerrari]

169. You said:

"Voter fraud has been a popular theory since the 1800's and I'm sure it will stay that way."

[muryan]

173. Yes

Whether is be fraud on the democratic side or republican side, it seems to come up at EVERY election. My point is that during this election its a non factor because she lost by so much.

[EFerrari]

175. But we don't know that. We can't prove that. That's the only

point that I'm making.

And, frankly, I'd like to expect more from something as important as our election system than, "she probably lost".

[muryan]

207. She was down in every poll prior to the election

by the same amount that she lost the ACTUAL election. She lost its over and done with. most conservatives i've talked to are disappointed she lost because she was such an easy target to pick on us democrats for.

[EFerrari]

234. That doesn't take away from my point: the systems used in GA

are untrustworthy and the opportunity to defraud voters is there.

Are you sure you're from OH?

:)

[Critters2]

159. .

:eyes:

Whatever.

Sometimes people lose elections. Even people you don't like. It isn't always a conspiracy.

Oh, okay, if it'll make you happy...it IS always a conspiracy.

[EFerrari]

174. But, I haven't claimed there is a conspiracy. lol

I said we have no way of knowing if results from those machines represent votes or vapor.

[illumn8d]

179. Then what are you claiming?

If it's that Diebold machines can be hacked, you won't get much of an argument here.

[bilgewaterbill]

3. Lemme guess- you liked her? nt

[maseman]

5. Thank God

She was an absolute nut-case. She made Kathrine Harris almost look normal. We need to clean house including Dems (Like Lieberman) to move forward with real progressives. Good riddance.

[CottonBear]

12. She is most certainly not a "nutcase." She is a fellow Georgian

and a patriot. DUers in her district voted for her today.

McKinney is a progressive.

[BushOut06]

33. Will you support her opponent?

I see all this hand-wringing for McKinney, and not one ounce of support for Hank Johnson coming from some of you. Are you folks going to get behind Johnson, or are you going to spend the next few months trying to prove these conspiracy theories about how she was robbed?

[daveskilt]

39. If you dont like lieberman running as an independant....

People here talk the talk about getting behind the candidate once nominated, but I saw the same Kerry bashing post primaries in 04. And people wonder why democrats are seen as divided and squabling off message incoherent etc.

I worked for another candidate in 04 but when Kerry was the nominee I worked and campaigned and bust my ass to try and get him elected. McKinney lost - she was a lightning rod, people loved her or hated her but she lost and for her supporters it is too hard to accept that she is way too small potatoes for diebold type conspiracies - those guys didnt give a crap who won there ( 04 presidential is a different story) and certainly not enough to fake a huge margin. truth be told the GOP might have wanted her in the race to exploit her misteps and unfortunate public image.

let the McKinney supporters vent tonight and I for one will offer them consoloation. If they are still bitching about it by tomorrow and not getting behind the nominee I for one will roast them alive for not being loyal democrats or loyal americans.

[Stevepol]

59. McKinney was not too "small potatoes" to arouse the Diebold riggers.

I would bet that an exit poll would show she got something like 90% of the black vote. Everything she's supposedly done to irritate the voters has all tended to endear her to her constituents.

I saw the debate with this Johnson, and he reminds me of Jefferson from LA and I'll bet that in a couple years he'll be in the same shape as Jefferson. He has very little comprehension of the reall issues IMO. I could be proved wrong.

McKinney did the research, she knew Greg Palast, used his figures and data, read the English newspapers. She really was and is a progressive voice. She's being pilloried by the same type of white Repub spirit that pilloried Clinton for his sexcapades. How dare you resist the (probably racist) actions of the capital police. You know your place woman, etc.

The only way she lost by this margin is if half the Repub constituency in her district came out to get her out. The Dems voted overwhelmingly for her. Of course there's now way to know since GA uses Diebold touchscreens and doesn't have a democracy.

[klook]

61. Absolutely correct on all points.

As in 2004, when the Republicans in her district have a compelling reason not to cross over and vote in our primary, Cynthia stands a much better chance of winning. But, as you say, with easily hackable Diebold machines doing all the oounting, it's hard to tell how people really voted.

For the time being, the pro-Bush forces have won another round, by keeping one of their fiercest critics from returning to Washington. I hope Ms. McKinney will find a way to make a strong contribution outside of Congress.

In the meantime, the people of the 4th district get Stammerin' Hank instead, who's greatest "strength" is his apparent unwillingness to offend--even to offend the criminals who've taken over our government.

[CottonBear]

108. You are correct about the cross-over Republican voters.

The posters from other states do not understand the Georgia primary election system and voter-party dynamics here in GA. Republicans (voting in a Democratic primary) voted Denise Majette into office and voted McKinney out. John Barrow (D-Athens) won a Congressional seat, in part, because Republicans were unwilling to cross-over and vote against him in the primary because Barbara Dooley (wife of a former UGA football coach and minor Athens, GA celebrity) was running in a Republican primary. One of the reasons that Ralph Reed lost his primary because of cross-over Democrats who voted in the Republican primary.

Let's hope that Johnson steps up to the plate and votes as a progressive Democrat in Congress. (BTW, I'm in GA but not in the 4th district.)

[EFerrari]

132. I just remembered that Andy showed Cynthia how to flip the vote

on those diebold machines. There's a pic floating around here somewhere.

[rinsd]

229. LOL. Again with 2004

George Bush ran unopposed so what mysteriously motivated these Republicans to vote in their primary as opposed to the Dem one?

Could it be that McKinney ran against 5 known political quantities who split up the vote?

That takes nothing away from her win in 2004 but these claims that the GOP was more motivated to vote in their own primary because it was Presidential is laughable.

[klook]

231. Uh, U.S. Senator, maybe?

Isaakson, Cain, and Collins.

[mom cat]

82. And here is why they went after her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvLL--vSsA

She dared to speak out!

[daveskilt]

106. As a progressive who used to live in her district

I would have voted for Hank this time.

[mom cat]

62. Go ahead and let the vote be stolen. I guess you don't care if a

candidate's name was not on some ballots or that input was flipped so that votes foe McKinney showed up as votes for Johnson. The vote cannot be trusted anymore. Does that matter to you or are you pleased with having two repuke brothers count most of the votes in America?
Someday. it will be your ox that gets Gored.
We need to stand up and fight for our democracy and not dismiss the very real threats to our freedom as Conspiracy Theory.

[Swede Atlanta]

120. Not a nut case but not good for the 4th District

Fundamentally I agree with pretty much everything McKinney does. The problem I have with her is that in Congress you have to cooperate and build alliances and relationships in order to benefit the district. Cynthia's confrontational style doesn't lend itself to the kinds of compromises, etc. that are, even if I don't like it, necessary to get anything done in Washington. I live in her district and have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but this time it was time to see her go.

[LostinVA]

63. She isn't a nutcase and she IS a Progressive

Comparing her to Lieberman could be taken as nutty, though.

[WHAT]

6. it really makes me sad...

I don't think it's clean, either

a type of effete assassination?

it feels wrong...

[Tarc]

7. sour grapes

To paraphrase Dr. Freud, sometimes an election loss is just an election loss.

[BooScout]

51. Or sometimes people know more than you do...

I lived in McKinney's district for a long time. I know for a fact the GOP was heavily financing Johnson just as they did Denise Majette. They want her out at any cost. They don't like that she will not toe the line in Congress and cower before them.

[coalition_unwilling]

176. Small point, but you're not "paraphrasing," you're "alluding to".

[BushOut06]

8. Why is it when McKinney loses, it's fishy?

Yet when the incumbent LIE-berman loses, it's perfectly fine? Is it only fishy when the candidates we like lose?

[Up2Late]

10. Because ALL elections in Georgia are rigged. Period.

I don't understand how so many of you still don't see that.

McKinney is from a "Safe" gerrymandered district where her people LOVE her. Yes, it was rigged, I guarantee it, and I'm absolutely sure you can't prove it wasn't.

Go ahead, try. I'll wait.

[MidwestTransplant]

11. If it was up to the GOP she would stay in Congress

She lost because she is an embarrassment and her challenger wasn't. Clearly you don't think too highly of the people in her district.

[Mike Daniels]

85. Agreed...If this was a fix the Repubs would have had her WIN....

She's a freaking poster child for the Republicans.

Anyone who thinks the majority of the country sees McKinney as some sort of crusading hero who was brought down by a fixed election is in serious need of a reality check.

[BushOut06]

13. Prove it.

You're the one making the claim that her election was rigged. Therefore, the burden is on you to provide the evidence. It's not like she lost to some rich white corporate billionaire. I don't know a whole lot about Johnson, but as I said, I'm sure the people in that district do. Do you think that maybe - just maybe - the people in her district were fed up with her shenanigans? I'm sorry, but you can speak the truth about issues without carrying on the way she has in the past.

If the voting in Georgia is so rigged as you claim, how in the hell did McKinney even win in '04? How do any Democrats win in Georgia?

[bilgewaterbill]

16. I need to learn how to type faster. nt

[Up2Late]

18. You prove it wasn't. The burden is always to prove the election fair.

You know you can't don't you?

Put up or shut up. I'll be waiting.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Taoschick]

29. Actually,

It is up to the person making the allegation to prove their case.


McKinney no longer has any clout in Congress and it's time for another Democrat to take her place. The people of the 4th district deserve effective representation, not showboating.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BushOut06]

32. Six out of 13 US Representatives from Georgia are Democrats

If EVERY election since '02 has been rigged as you claim, how come nearly HALF of Georgia's seats in the House are filled by Democrats?

Unless you want to go on record as saying that the Republicans actually wanted those Democrats to win.

[illumn8d]

34. Actually the burden of proof is on who makes the statement (EOM)

[Critters2]

27. !!

:spray:

[Nederland]

23. You first

Since the election of 2004 happened first, we should start with that one.

I say the election in 2004 that she won was rigged.

The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate otherwise.

Put up or shut up.

We'll be waiting.

[BushOut06]

24. You make the accusation, you prove it. That's how it works.

Why should the burden be on me when YOU are the one making the accusation? Try taking that case to court, and see how far it gets you.

You never bothered to answer a crucial question - if Georgia elections are so unfair, how was McKinney even able to win her election in '04? I'm not talking about just the primary, I'm talking the general election, when she actually ran against a Republican. If the elections were rigged, how was she able to win back then?

You know DAMNED well that if I were making claims that Lieberman's election was rigged, you'd be demanding proof.

[ovidsen]

54. You can't prove a negative

That's logic 101.

No, my friend. The burden is on you.

[Stevepol]

60. It can't be proved either way. There's overwhelming circumstantial

evidence of fraud in GA, esp in 02, but you can't prove the machines are miscounting when there's no way to recount. It can't be done.

Crowing about McKinney's defeat or worrying about her loss are equally pointless since the machine obviously decided the election. It coulc be that she lost (due to a large crossover vote in an open primary) or it could be she won.

The facts: she's very well-liked by her black constituency, she's practically hated by the Repubs in the state and thru-out the country for her uppity ways.

I wish she would find a way to sue in court for a recount using some exit polls as a basis, if they are still doing exit polls in GA, just as the other GA candidate is doing, for get her name. McKinney could get Palast to help her in the court case.

[mom cat]

64. Uppity ways? I guess if she had gone to the back of the bus that you would

approve of her.
I haven't heard the charge "uppity" since I was growing up in Texas. It was considered a very racist slur and was ment to keep "those n...ers" "in their place".

[dsc]

I think he was being sarcastic

[mom cat]

81. Where I come from "uppity" is the kind of hate speech that preceeds

hate crimes against people of color.
Please let the poster defend himself. There was no indication that his use of the word uppity was meant as sarcasm, and even if it was, it is racist language.

[dsc]

84. The last sentence of his post leads me to believe him to be

a McKinney supporter who felt she had won. I might be wrong admittedly. Hopefully he will reply to you and we will both know. You are correct I should have probably stayed out of it though and that uppity is clearly not proper language.

[mom cat]

104. You may be right. i re read the post. I am sorry, but I just start

seeing red when I hear hate speech. One of my daughter's best friends was murdered by a racist. She was only 14. Still makes me crazy!

[dsc]

182. I very much understand

[daveskilt]

109. no racism in that context IMO

of course just my opinion thers no accounting for what will offend someone. the poster did not characterize her with that word but charachterized the repub reaction to her as her being that word. which im sure is the racist reaction from many white repubs in her district. racism must be confronted and identifying it is the first step - I belive this was someone identifying racism not displaying it.

[illumn8d]

183. I haven't seen any exit polling data for the runoff

I think there was some for the initial primary, but I can't find the data anywhere.

[Zynx]

90. Ummm...No. Since most elections are relatively clean the burden is

on YOU to prove massive fraud. From all outward appearances, this election appeared clean. Also, elsewhere in Georgia earlier this year, Ralph Reed lost despite being the candidate of the establishment Republicans. I think that disproves vote fraud.

[drm604]

98. Burden of proof.

"You're the one making the claim that her election was rigged. Therefore, the burden is on you to provide the evidence."

I think that rule doesn't really apply in the case of elections. It's applicable in science and in criminal cases but I think there are a whole class of cases where it isn't really applicable, where we have to assume the worst and make sure there are mechanisms in place to prove that things are working correctly.

For example, for a new bridge or high-rise the engineers have to prove that the structure is safe rather than the other way around. Would you want to move into a high-rise apartment building if you were told that the only safety procedure was "nobody's proved it's not safe"? The same is true for new auto models and new pharmaceuticals. The burden of proof in all these instances is on the ones making the claim that something functions correctly, not the other way around.

The public must have faith that elections are fair. This can't be based on "nobody's proved anything". That faith has to be based on proper procedures and audit trails, including some kind of voter verified paper record and a proper statistical sampling of that record. Anything less than proof of a fair election is unacceptable. "Nobody's proved that it was rigged" is not enough. Every election has to be proved fair and un-rigged.

[glitch]

114. Very well said. nt

[Nederland]

122. You don't understand

It's not a matter of what application we are talking about, it's a matter of logic. You can't prove a negative, period end of story. Sorry, but that's just Logic 101.

Moreover, your building analogy is completely wrong. What actually happens in construction (I know, I've built four houses) is that you complete a portion of work and then have a government inspector come out and look at your work. It is the inspectors job to find mistakes, and if s/ho finds no mistakes, that portion of work is declared "safe". Just like everything else, the burden of proof is on the inspector to find errors and proof that something was done wrong.

You claim that every election has to be proved fair and un-rigged. How exactly does that work? How would you, for example, prove that Bill Clinton's victory in 1992 was un-rigged?

[drm604]

135. When I said every election

I didn't mean literally every election, even including past ones like Clinton's 1992 victory. It's obviously not possible to look at the past and prove every election was legit. I'm talking about current and future elections.

I understand logic. I have a Comp-Sci degree, I took Logic 101. I'm not talking about absolutes. I 'm talking about how we need to operate in a real and imperfect world. The burden of proof is on those who claim an election was fair and honest.

We need voter verified paper trails and proper auditing. We need proof beyond a reasonable doubt that elections are fair and un-rigged. To simply say "you can't prove it was rigged" isn't sufficient to maintaining our Democracy. The public needs to be assured beyond a reasonable doubt that elections are not rigged.

I wasn't talking about houses. I mentioned high-rises and bridges. When an engineer is creating a design for a bridge he has to show that, mathematically and by the laws of physics, it is sound for it's intended use. He can't just willy-nilly throw a design together with no thought and then challenge others to prove it's unsafe. I'm sure that examination by others is also part of the process, but it starts with a provably sound design.

Once we have elections that are rig proof beyond a reasonable doubt then you can require people to prove fraud. Until then, there's no reason to have faith in any election.

[Nederland]

171. Fair enough

Now that you've backed off a bit from the notion of "proving" something and are willing to settle for "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" let's talk specifics. What does proof that an election was not rigged look like? What would it take for you to say: "this election was not rigged"?

[drm604]

225. I don't think I backed off from anything.

IMHO at least, when we're talking about "proof" in real world situations, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is implied. But it seemed like it was necessary to make it explicit in my reply.

What it would look like is what I've already stated - voter verified paper ballots combined with a hand count of a randomly selected statistically significant proportion of those ballots. This would of course be combined with constant monitoring of this process by members of all involved political parties as well as members of the press and general public.

This should be combined with strong properly enforced laws regarding the right to vote, the availability of sufficient ballots or equipment, proper information about correct polling places and times, the availability of provisional ballots for when questions arise, and the fair and correct consideration of those ballots. Violators should be punished to the full extent of the law.

There should also be valid exit polling by non-partisan organizations with a mandatory recount of the paper ballots if these polls show statistically significant discrepancies.

I know it's a lot to ask for, and I'm not hopeful that we can get it anytime soon, but it is what we need.

[Up2Late]

208. Thank you!

:applause:

[DaDeacon]

99. I live in her district ...

And sorry to to tell you we really do like her. The rest of the cuntry sees what they want we know her for what she has done for us not what some parties would like to say she was. Funny how North Dekalb (mostly white & upper middle class) was willing to send money and support in Hank Johnson a Couny Commissioner who has for the last 5 years set by and allowed for poor interior develpment and road work choke out the financial growth of South Dekalb County (One of the wealthiest black areas in the nation) Now I'm not saying, but I'm just saying.

[bilgewaterbill]

14. ALL the elections are rigged? Period?

Does that include the elections McKinney won up to this point? And what evidence do you have to support your claim that the elections are rigged? Since you're making the accusation, you should provide some evidence beyond the ?fact? that "her people LOVE her." Irregularities in the voting process are serious. This constant claiming that the vote is rigged when a preferred candidate loses is akin to crying wolf.

[Up2Late]

19. See response above. eom.

[bilgewaterbill]

21. See response above. nt

[index555]

40. obviously mindless circular logic

n/t

[bilgewaterbill]

214. Not mindless. Deleted. nt

[mom cat]

65. Does it bother you that her name was not on some ballots?

[Critters2]

188. Again, for clarity

The ballots on which her name did not appear were either outside her district or Republican ballots. Exactly as a sane person would expect.

[Zynx]

91. How about Ralph Reed losing his primary?

Where was his rigged election to save him?

[Critters2]

119. Stop with the logic already!!! eom

[Up2Late]

209. That was a fight between Republicans, they didn't want him to win...

...ever since his involvement with Jack Abrimoff and the Indian Casinos came to light.

I'll bet Kathryn Harris doesn't win her primary (SEPTEMBER 5, 2006) either.

Here's some background info from Brad (of "Brad Blog"):

<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-friedman/on-electronic-voting-we-_b_20890.html>

<http://www.whoseflorida.com/kharris.htm>

[bilgewaterbill]

215. Diebold hates Ralph Reed. nt

[TrogL]

44. You can't prove a negative

[Stevepol]

58. I absolutely agree the election was probably somehow rigged BUT

the whole point is that when you vote on electronic voting machines, in this case touchscreens without even a paper trail (there's still no paper trail in GA I assume) and thus without any verification of the vote, YOU DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY, and there's is absolutely no reason whatever to have confidence in the figures whatever they are.

What that means is that you can't prove ANYTHING! You can't prove McKinney won, you can't prove she lost, you can't prove it was rigged, you can't prove it wasn't.

YOU CAN'T PROVE A DAMNED THING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A DEMOCRACRY.

[mom cat]

67. So true! We must fight these hackable machines and this might be a test

case that can help get rid of them forever. Or should we just sit on our hands, ignore another theft and let the machines steal another presidential election in 08? If she fights this one, she will be fighting for all pf us.

[GeorgiaDem69]

70. A little over the top there

"the whole point is that when you vote on electronic voting machines, in this case touchscreens without even a paper trail (there's still no paper trail in GA I assume) and thus without any verification of the vote, YOU DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY"

That's a bit strong. You might not be able to verify the outcome of the vote but that doesn't necessarily mean the vote was rigged or incorrect. All it means is that you can't verify the outcome. Sun came up this morning and far as I can tell we still live in a democracy.

[Up2Late]

210. Exactly my point, Thank You!

And Yes, still no paper trail here in Georgia. :pals:

[michreject]

78. Because ALL elections in Georgia are rigged. Period...quote

I suppose you can offer proof to back up this allegation?

[INDIA]

88. Instead of us trying to prove that is wasn't rigged...

Which is by far the most likely and universally accepted possibility, why don't YOU prove to me that it WAS rigged. Go ahead, try. I'll wait. :eyes:

Seriously, has it been proved that any recent election was actually rigged? And no, I'm not talking about shady dealings carried out by opposing sides,(registering in both states, felons or too young voting, suppressing minority votes) I'm talking about a full blown voting conspiracy with rigged machines that many around here seem to accept as fact.

[muryan]

156. Thats always an easy way out

instead of you proving something sensationalist, you ask us to prove that it didn't happen. That sounds like a creationist argument to me.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tarc]

36. Ignorance? Find a mirror.

*IF* there were some vast Diebold conspiracy here, then it'd be in the GOP's best interest to field a candidate against McKinney. They'd play up the cop-slapping incident and her other past incidents of nuttiness and run away with it.

[mom cat]

68. They did it to her before in the primaries when they had Repuke

cross-over.

[Critters2]

138. Repuke cross-over is very different from rigged machines

Which was it? Or maybe, just maybe, she lost the election the old fashioned way.

[Joe Chi Minh]

71. You don't get it, do you? The vast majority hate the right, and love

the people who have proved that they will stand up to the criminals, instead of sucking up to them. It would be strange if it were otherwise, since this regime came power.

How is it you can't understand the majority really aren't masochists, even if they have been politically naive enough in the past to be hoodwinked by the establishment's demonisation of the left?

[Up2Late]

9. NO! REALLY! We haven't had a real Election here in Georgia since 2000...

...if then.:argh:

The only one who wins here in Georgia is who the GOP and the Diebold Corporation say who wins. :rant:

I don't know why I even bother to vote anymore, but it does get me out of the house while it's still light out.

[Critters2]

25. Stolen elections look close

This looks legit to me.

Sorry.

[BushOut06]

31. So are you saying the GOP wanted McKinney to win in '04?

Please don't expect us to believe that the GOP preferred McKinney over whoever the GOP candidate was.

As of now, 6 out of the 13 US Representatives from Georgia are Democrat. Kinda blows the whole "all the elections are rigged for the GOP" argument right out of the water, doesn't it?

[mom cat]

69. Not if the GOP picks off Dems who dare to ask the real tough questions

like Cynthia.

[GeorgiaDem69]

73. Or, in this case,

Dems who are nutcases.

During a nasty 1996 congressional campaign with racial tension on both sides, she called supporters of her Republican opponent "holdovers from the Civil War days" and "a ragtag group of neo-Confederates." Never mind that her opponent was Jewish. And during the 2000 presidential campaign, she wrote that "Gore's Negro tolerance level has never been too high. I've never known him to have more than one black person around him at any given time." Never mind that Gore's campaign manager was black.

...

She employed a similar strategy in '96 when her father repeatedly called her opponent a "racist Jew." (When asked about his comments by the New York Times, he replied, "He is a racist Jew, that's what he is, isn't he?") After ignoring his comments for a week, she distanced herself from them and "fired" him from her campaign, though he had no formal role.

http://www.slate.com/?id=2064530

[Mike Daniels]

87. You have to be respected by a good majority for tough questions to matter

I don't think the mass majority of the public would even know who McKinney was if it wasn't for her antics.

[EFerrari]

111. Like being a black woman and so targeted by the Capitol Piggery?

You mean, those antics?

[Up2Late]

206. Yes, that is what I'm saying. She is an embarrassment for Democrats...

...because of all the trouble she always seems to get into, the GOP LOVE Democrats like that. They needed a easy target for Fox "news" until 2004, but they terminated her in the primary, when fewer people vote or pay attention, because in a high turnout, November 2006 election, the vote switching is much more obvious.

Plus, now they can laugh and ridicule anything she says from now until January, instead of her giving campaign speeches and campaign commercials aimed at the Republicans.

Believe me, I'm not a McKinney fan, but I hate these rigged Diebold elections worst.

BTW, bookmark this post, here's my prediction for the Georgia Governor, Lt. Governor and Secretary of State (the last two currently held by Democrats). I predict on this August 9, 2006, Republicans win all 3, which will complete the 6 year ReThuglican take over of Georgia's State government and Federal representation.

They will never steal ALL of the house seats, that would be too obvious, and at least 2 of the Dems are running un-opposed, but they will rig the elections they want to win.

Democracy is dead in Georgia until we get rid of the Diebold AccuVote TS machines.

[EFerrari]

49. Hang in! This will not stand.

:hi:

[Mike Daniels]

83. Given the margin of victory in both races....

Don't you think Bush and Co. would have been more inclined to fix the CT election so that Lieberman won vs. wasting their time defeating a person most people in the country see as a race-baiting nut-job?

So when are Cynthia and her father going to get around to blaming the Jews for her loss this time around?

[Benhurst]

86. Computer voting did not take place in Connecticut . It did in Georgia.

It would have been next to impossible for the Republicans to fix the election in Connecticut.

Any Georgia Diebold election is suspect.

Bring back paper ballots!

[Snivi Yllom]

96. pure horseshit

McKinney got her clock cleaned. Plain and simple.

[OG Yankee Patriot]

137. GOOD RIDDANCE to Her AND Lieberman

let them get together and start a radio talk show.
hopefully she will slink away into quiet obscurity, perhaps working the counter at the DMV.

[Critters2]

139. Not likely to happen

She's an outspoken anti-Semite.

[muryan]

157. Ah

thats why she has so much support from the tinfoilhat brigade.

[Critters2]

187. Yeah,

apparently "they" own the elections process, too. :sarcasm:

[YDogg]

4. Wow. Not even close.

[dailykoff]

15. I guess Georgia isn't Connecticut.

Chalk another one up to Diebold. Too bad for all of us.

[Renew Deal]

17. McKinney was ultimately a disaster.

Good luck to Mr. Johnson

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

28. On Democratic Underground

we support Democratic candidates. That means Ned Lamont.

And Hank Johnson.

It's time to get behind him.

[onehandle]

35. Yep. nt

[laugle]

37. AMEN TO THAT!!!!!! Out with the same old and in with the new!! n/t

[daveskilt]

38. AMEN! and the diebold for mckinney thing is a bunch of crap

the negative spin in the press of her unfortunate incidents had more to do with mckinney losing.

Ned Lamont and Hank Johnson in 06!

[EFerrari]

46. Great. When Diebold votes Republican in 2008, I hope

you remember that it's just negative spin.

[daveskilt]

105. you really think diebold or the GOP gave a crap about McKinney?

of all the races to fix that would not be high on the list.

[EFerrari]

107. There's a list? I didn't realize they were bothering to be exclusive. nt

[unda cova brutha]

116. cynthia was debolded last night

heres the proof:


Provided By: The Associated Press
Last Modified: 8/8/2006 11:18:03 PM

Technical problems in DeKalb County are delaying the vote count there, including vote count reports in the U.S. House District 4 race between incumbent Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and Hank Johnson.

Poll workers were having difficulty uploading memory cards from electronic voting machines, said Chris Riggall, a spokesman for the Georgia Secretary of State's office.

It is not known how long it will take to get vote totals from DeKalb County. http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=83122

Why was the vote count delayed? hmmmm, maybe so when the repugs saw she was winning they could start up the debold virus to switch her votes over to her opponent.

We need to take to the streets like they are in mexico and demand a recount. This is not fair. They keep stealing from us.

[EFerrari]

123. Yes, they do. There is one lady in GA that is challenging her

election results but I can't remember her name.

That's what has to be done -- every time.

[muryan]

160. Mckinney lost by 18%

that means almost 1 in every 5 votes that was meant for her, went to johnson. Or about 1 in 10 if you wanted them to be practically tied. I know diebold machines are definitely vulnerable and were suspect in elections here in ohio (where i live). But 1 in 5? sorry but that is just a bit ludicrous. Mckinney lost because she made an embarrassment of herself constantly, and her constituents got tired of it.

[EFerrari]

194. You may be right. But doesn't it bother you just a little

that we can't know? That there's no way to really know?

I don't live in GA, and this won't affect me -- until it does. Regardless of your (or my) take on McKinney, it's the vote. That's all we have.

[Up2Late]

212. Thanks for all your help sfexpat2000...

...I'm so sick of have to deal with all these election night lurkers. They all came out of the wood work last night.

BTW, if you want to read 3 very good post which say exactly what I was tring to say, but far more clearly, check out these by
"drm604"
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2444511&mesg_id=2445377>

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2444511&mesg_id=2445906>

and "Stevepol"


<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2444511&mesg_id=2445066>

[EFerrari]

233. Hey, thank you for the links.

:hi:

[rodeodance]

45. nicely said.

[EFerrari]

48. Good luck supporting Democratic candidates on Republican machines.

[jayfish]

41. Oh Oh, Does This Mean We Are Doomed In Nov. Becasue...

the party is being dragged to the right? Are we moving so far to the right as to make other Democratic candidates unelectable this fall? Are Liberal Democrats no longer welcome in the party?:eyes:

[orleans]

42. i'm gonna miss her. i'd love to have her represent me.....

i've got judy bitchert (biggert) and she's a total repuke asshole and a fool as big as they come

[SoCalDem]

43. I like Cynthis's spunk, BUT.. she needs to regroup..write a book

go on a speaking tour.. I really think she can be more effective OUT of office in some ways..

When she's there, she's such a lightning rod for the bolts that republicans regularly throw her way...so perhaps a few year out of office could do her some good.. '


Who knows... if democrats manage to out diebold the republicans this fall, perhaps there's a job waiting for her in DC...or when Saxby's term is up, maybe she'll aim higher after a few tempering years...

[EFerrari]

47. Wtf? You know this election was crooked.

It's not my concern who the citizens of GA choose. It is my concern that they be allowed to choose.

[maddezmom]

50. I guess it would have been considered crooked if McKinney won, too

If Diebold is the issue, I just hope she continues to work on it.

[EFerrari]

52. You're so right. And, as a lightening rod, Cynthia becomes

the issue, unfortunately.

I hope we *all* keep working on it. The days when voters start the day watching their vote default to someone else's choice need to stop.

[Critters2]

115. Somehow I doubt it nt

[EFerrari]

124. Well, you don't visit the Election Reform forum very often

do you? :)

[Critters2]

133. I do occasionally

but every lost election is not a stolen election. There's no evidence this was stolen, unless you consider McKinney losing evidence. I don't.

[EFerrari]

142. Since there is no transparency, there is no evidence that

it was clean.

Do you trust Republican voting machines?

[Critters2]

144. I trust Democrats

and Hank Johnson is a Democrat.

The Repugs would have worked in favor of McKinney.

[EFerrari]

150. Does Johnson own a controlling share in Diebold?

That argument makes no sense.

The thing is, we could be having this same conversation if Cynthia had won.

[Critters2]

153. I don't believe for a minute that you'd be ranting like this

if McKinney had won. This is about your candidate losing. Period.

[EFerrari]

158. I didn't have a "candidate" in this race. I like Cynthia and

I don't know her opponent.

[SoCalDem]

53. Just like 2002 was crooked, but there will be nothing done about it

except to paint Cynthia as a sore loser..The democrats gave up on the south too soon, and unfortunately the loony republicans down there have had a field day getting all their ducks in a row..:grr:

[EFerrari]

56. The Democrats have no business "giving up" on the South.

:mad:

[SoCalDem]

184. That was my point.. They willingly ceded it to the repubes.

and are now trying to get it back..but in the meantime, the repubes got their "macheeeens" (channeling Strom Thurmond)..

Until we get paper ballots back, will we ever really know who really won?

I don't believe that Ole Sonny Perdue really won....nor did Saxby...but after 4 years of grumbling about it, we have gotten nowhere, because the courts have all been "pre-tweaked" as well..

I don't know what will happen in 06, but I am uncomfortable with the way things are..:(

[Critters2]

190. This was a race between two Dems

Oh, why do I waste my breath...?

[SoCalDem]

198. Have a kitty..

apparently I cannot seem to make my point today..




the point I was trying to make is THIS..


when the dems "gave up" on the south, it SET THE STAGE for permanent shenanigans by the republicans who now control the way they vote, the way votes are recounted (or not) , who on the bench hears the cases of voter disenfranchisement, etc..

I KNOW this was a democratic primary.. (there's no harm in it from a republican standpoint if they let the Democrats run in races...they just don't have any intention of allowing them to actually "win" or serve the terms they might deserve..)

[Blue_Tires]

55. I've been a McKinney supporter

and I'm sad to see her go--I hope she remains active in politics, as maybe a TV commentator or activist...I've always appreciated her unwavering convictions to truth and liberal principles and her brash, straightforward (and sometimes tactless and standoffish) style...Congress needs more people willing to fight, make waves and bring up difficult questions, especially when everyone else in the house and senate are sitting on their hands and worrying about their poll numbers back home...True to her nature, she did things her way until the very end, and even though I may not have agreed with everything she did, I loved her for it....

Sadly, this style will generate more enemies than friends (more than a few of them are celebrating in GD now), and added to McKinney's frequent self-inflicted wounds, proved to be her undoing...

that being said, it is time to support Johnson, and all i can say is that in the tradition of the district, i hope he is a boat rocker and not one of those "go along to get along" types

[BooScout]

57. I'm familiar with Johnson.....

He's definately a 'go along to get along type'.

[DaDeacon]

103. That's not good...not now n/t

[seleff]

136. Same here

I was a McKinney supporter. Just moved out of her district so I couldn't vote. I don't find her an embarrassment at all, rather a well read, highly educated outspoken women that we need more of in Congress. I hope she stays active, perhaps as a Pol Sci professor, NGO employee and citizen. If we can't have an outspoken Dem from GA#4, where can we have one from? That said, I wish Johnson the best in defeateing his Republican opponent, whoever that may be. I also hope that he shows some growth in representing GA on National and International affairs. Jury is out on that so far as I can tell. Meanwhile, I put my vote to good use here in PA to get rid of Santorum!

[GeorgiaDem69]

66. I can't believe the nutcases on here

that think the election was rigged so that a Dem would beat a Dem. There's a lot of crazy conspiracy theorists on here but that takes the cake.

McKinney lost because she has turned a lot of people off and the incident with the Capitol Police was the final straw. She was an embarrassment to Dems and Georgians and I'm glad she's out.

[Joe Chi Minh]

72. 94 posts and rising. Congratulations and welcome!

[GeorgiaDem69]

74. Thanks, I thought you were going to be the first

to rip into me for calling some folks nutcases for the conspiracy theories floating around.

Won't be long...

[Joe Chi Minh]

77. Thank you for the tribute...

[onehandle]

75. She was our Bob Barr.

Provided good red meat for the party, but was raised huge amounts of cash for the opposite party.

McKinney's photo on a fund raising letter for the GOP paid off for them, big time.

Our district will be Democratic no matter what. The GOP will hate to see her go.

[GeorgiaDem69]

76. I live in Atlanta, so got to follow the campaign some

and I think Hank Johnson will be a much better representative than McKinney.

[DaDeacon]

102. You live in Atlanta huh?

Drive down 85, take it to 20 east going to Decatur set off on Wesley Chapel and just drive around to say Memorial Drive. THAT's ALL Hank Johnson. Nothing to be proud of, and nothing to elect him for.

[onehandle]

213. You mean "Cynthia McKinney Parkway."

Nope. Nothing for anyone to be proud of here.

[DaDeacon]

227. Yep ..planing and develpment by "Hank Johnson" and friends!

[KoKo]

79. Cynthia was one of our most progressive Reps in her voting/Rove set

her up. Capitol Police incident was a set up. She was stalked constantly and if you don't know yet the dirty tactics that Repugs use on Progressive Dems...then I don't know what to tell you. Media is in the Repug/Corporatists pockets. When the Repugs say to play up a story they snap to it. Cynthia's problem was that she was so progressive that she annoyed the hell out of Pelosi and Hoyer and the Repugs too. So she got no support to get the facts out. But Media and Repugs also have gone after Dick Durbin one of our most progressive Senators.

Connecticut used the old "lever machines" and Georgia is all DRE machines which are easily manipulated. I have no doubt that if Connecticut was DRE that Lieberman would be a very happy guy this morning.

[mom cat]

80. Here is why the Repukes hate her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvLL--vSsA

[daveskilt]

112. and people wonder why they make fun of infighting dems

crazy crazy people.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

89. Thanks a lot, Pelosi...

Cynthia was not given her seniority back when she returned in 2004. It was like she was a first-time Representative again. This gave her opponents the stupid "power ranking" talking points. Did they do this to Lautenberg when he came back to the Senate? What's wrong with our leadership that they treat a real Progressive this way?

[Politicub]

93. I proudly voted for Cynthia yesterday

and I'm glad that I did.

I hope Hank Johnson does a good job, but after what I've seen and read about him, he seems very lackluster to me.

I have to give him credit on his GOTV efforts. On my way home from work yesterday, there must have been two or three Johnson supporters at every intersection holding signs reminding people to vote for him. I didn't see any, not even one, McKinney supporter.

Curiously, I didn't see one black supporter of Hank Johnson, at least on the street. I guess those who hated McKinney got their chance to punish her for being too uppity.

We lost an effective and powerful voice in congress yesterday. I hope McKinney decides to make another go at it, and I wish Johnson the best of luck because, well, I live in his district.

[GeorgiaDem69]

94. She didn't get punished for being "uppity!"

Come on, she lost because she's a nutjob who hit a policeman. She's also a race-baiter. I'm glad she's gone.

"Around every corner, McKinney sees a secret cabal plotting her demise. After the majority-black district that first elected her to Congress was struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutionally gerrymandered, she lashed out at the court as racist. She compared the verdict to Dred Scott, the decision that declared slaves were nothing more than chattel, and Plessy v. Ferguson, which legitimized separate-but-equal American apartheid."

http://www.slate.com/?id=2064530

"The bizarre scuffle Wednesday between Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) and an unnamed U.S. Capitol Police officer is winning the spirited congresswoman few new friends in her caucus. In fact, some Democrats are trying to distance themselves from her."

http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/040406/news4.html

[Politicub]

95. No one is perfect

And I don't expect them to be. The police officer scuffle was badly handled by her, and probably cost her the race. I don't worship at the altar of authority, so I don't place the police on some kind of untouchable pedestal. But it's useless to hash it out again. She lost, and now I'm supporting the Dem nominee Johnson.

But on balance, Cynthia has carried the progressive torch proudly and I'm sorry to see her go.

[EFerrari]

126. IndyOp posted an article on another thread where

Capitol police admit to targeting black members. I'll see if I can find it.

[EFerrari]

129. Here's that link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1859540#1859905

[EFerrari]

125. A nutjob race baiter.

Well, that just about says it all, doesn't it. :sarcasm:

[durrrty libby]

110. I am so sorry she lost

I am not in her state and don’t know her. However, even a casual observer

could see she is a tough, take no guff kinda gal, and very smart.

I believe the Capital Police incident really hurt her. Even if it were a set up, if she had just sucked it up and apologized, rather than getting defensive, this thread would be
celebrating her victory.

She knows how her enemies operate, why did she fall into a trap?

But still……..we need 100 more like her.

[unda cova brutha]

97. fukc!.

that's all I can say about this.

[DaDeacon]

100. If you know like I know ....

This had less to do with policy and more to do with politics !

[Strawman]

101. Good. She's a trivializer

She trivializes important issues and does more harm than good. Her ridiculous behavior with the Capitol Hill police trivializes real racial discrimination and her ridiculous claims about election fraud trivialize the real thing. I like her votes, but there's more to consider sometimes.

[EFerrari]

131. Now *there* is an excellent illustration of trivializing.

Do you have any clue what happened on those machines?

And, tell me, what happened on Capitol Hill that day?

I love these threads.

[Strawman]

163. whatever it was, I'm sure she'll blame somebody else

Two incumbents who thought they were unaccountable to the people got tossed out yesterday, one in CT and one in GA. I am more happy about CT, but I also think that the GA choice was a good one.

I don't have to refute specualtive claims of widespread fraud in a Democratic primary (that would account for what? a double-digit margin?). Please. When you toss out fraud theories, it's your burden to prove them. That's hard when they have little face validity and come from someone who has as little credibility as McKinney. She's an asset to the Republicans. They can paint liberals as ridiculous and non-credible. It's harder to do that against incumbents who aren't missing key votes, slapping people in the face. If that's being nitpicky (becuase I would like more congressional Democrats to vote like McKinney), so be it. I just think there's a greater cost in the court of public opinion than there is a benefit gained from symbolic protest votes cast by her in the current Congress.

It's admirable to stick up for the person perceived to be the underdog, but by doing so blindly you risk being played for a sucker.

I don't know everything about every incident involving Cynthia McKinney and her strange behavior. There sure are alot of them. I'm certain you and her other defenders are armed with all sorts of details that you can spin to believe whatever you want about her and I'm neither prepared for nor interested in engaging in a point by point refutation of any of them. But I sure see a pattern of unimpressive behavior, and I'm going to defer to those who know her best: the Democratic voters who just voted her out in a primary. If they give her another chance in a couple years, (like they did once before already..oh shit, that was a consipracy too), maybe I will too.

[EFerrari]

181. I haven't thrown out any claim of widespread fraud. lol

I think we're spinning our wheels here.

[Critters2]

186. You've claimed that every election in Georgia is rigged

Where I come from, we'd call that "widespread." And paranoid.

[EFerrari]

189. Ah, no, I haven't. You may want to go back and see if you can

find such a claim.

And, nice personal attack, mycritters2! :hi:

[illumn8d]

191. So why are you in this thread?

You don't claim to have a candidate in this race, and you don't claim that this election was rigged.

In one of the responses above you said you were talking about the 'systematic disenfranchisement of minority voters'. That, combined with your other statements in this thread make it seem somewhat disingenuous that you aren't claiming this election is fixed.

Please, what am I missing?

[EFerrari]

192. You are missing that I work on election reform, something

that was indicated in nearly every post. But, that's okay.

And, there has been systematic disenfranchisement of minority voters in the US. That's just history and, unfortunately, not history. Remember the Civil Rights Movement? Remember Ohio 2004?

So, now, I'm disingenuous for not claiming what I haven't been claiming? :crazy:

[illumn8d]

197. Oh, no I get that part about working on election reform

I think it's disingenuous to state that you don't claim this election is rigged when you constantly post statments that are inferring it was.

[EFerrari]

199. Gotcha (I think). There is a difference between saying

THIS election was rigged and saying, this election was riggable and we should be concerned about that.

That difference may get lost on these threads or via the small screen or when we're so interested that we're looking for a place to hang our concern.

Thanks for helping me clarify.

[illumn8d]

200. No problem

I agree with this 100%.

[EFerrari]

205. Okay. Whew!

:)

[7P Dude]

113. Republicans Lose a Poster Child n/m

[Tsiyu]

118. Johnson shouldn't be there

But it is what it is.

How much you want to bet those Cox sisters won't pay as much attention to this seat - or its occupant? How much you want to bet the media will merely forget this seat ever existed?

Time will tell.

A mumbling coward won, but Georgia sure enough loves its mumbling cowards. Glad I left that pisshole. :yoiks:

[retread]

127. Maybe this isn't the right thread to ask this question but: There are

those who say McKinney's problems are due to her "attitude" and this is illustrated in the incident with the capital policeman. If I get the story correct this wasn't the first incident and he claimed he didn't recognize her because of her new hair style. My question, leaving aside the "uppity" and the "They all look alike" flags raised by the previous, How do you reconcile the difference in treatment between Congresswoman McKinney and Congressman Kennedy by police?

[EFerrari]

128. This is precisely the thread to ask that question.

And ask why it's okay for GA residents to be forced to vote on hackable machines.

And ask why the Democrats are content to "give up" on "the South".

All good questions.

[7P Dude]

168. Nobody is giving up on the South in this one...

...the gentleman elected is almost certainly going to win the general election (do the repubs even run a candidate in that district?).

Please don't forget that this isn't the first time that she's been voted out of office. Anybody who thinks this is the result of only her recent run in with the cops has to ignore her long history.

She was a favorite icon of the Republicans long before she slapped a cop. I swear, sometimes it seems like she thinks she only has to stop at stop lights because she's a black woman and the light is racist.

[EFerrari]

177. Okay. The upside is, there are challenges to these machines

being mounted all over the country by people who prefer transparent, verifiable elections. Here's one in GA:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x445151

[illumn8d]

140. You can't

It's not fair, I won't argue that.

What I argue, is that McKinney doesn't have the right political instincts. While many DUers love her mercurial nature, you have to temper it and pick your spots. McKinney didn't do this. Now she's out of the seat and isn't helping anybody.

[EFerrari]

148. But, you are making the assumption that McKinney's

political instincts somehow lead to her "defeat" in this "election". That can't be proven.

[mvd]

146. I like McKinney

And who's to say she won't be back. Her district gets mad at her and then recognizes what a strong voice she is. We need more outspoken people. Yes, there have been a couple incidents with McKinney that I wish were avoided, but even in those cases, I'm not sure it was all her fault. I'm more concerned with Repuke corruption with guys like Abramoff.

[Endangered Specie]

170. I think the Democratic party (especially in GA) is better off without her.

and seriously folks, not EVERY election where 'you' or 'we' lose is rigged... sometimes you just LOSE.

[RDU Socialist]

211. IMPOSSIBLE

don't you know that 99% of Americans are Democrats who vote for Democrats and support every position a Democrat has?! No Democrat has lost a race ever, it was either stolen or... stolen. Nixon's defeat of McGovern, it was electronic machines which gave him the victory.

This was legit, the margin of victory was too great, this was no defeat of Coke Stevenson by LBJ.

[RestoreGore]

216. How was McKinney An Embarrassment?

She was against the war in Iraq. And she most definitely was not a Bush buttkisser either. Sure, she questioned 9.11, so I'm sure that cooked her because as we know asking questions on that topic in this country is tantamount now to committing a deadly sin. I remember her giving it good to Rumsfeld though in a Congressional hearing about Bechtel contracts, and she knew her stuff. Sad to see some only spouting the same soundbites over and over again. And yes, the incident in DC recently with a guard was something to care about for all of five minutes...Big deal. Bush lied about WMD and killed thousands of people, and HE IS STILL IN THE WH. Did she not have a solid Progressive voting record? Are we then into candidates that now just "look good" or do we want candidates that truly espouse Progressive values? She may have been controversial, but at least she was a true Progressive and frankly I don't give two farts in space what Republicans thought of her. And I absolutely don't trust the machines in Georgia. I hope she at least conducts an inquiry, and hope she continues to seek out the truth.

[NYCGirl]

218. Cynthia McKinney on Al Gore:

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (10/3/00): To her friends, Cynthia McKinney is a refreshing new face in a sea of congressional clones.

She's a single mother raised in the heart of the civil rights movement who is unafraid to speak out—even against fellow Democrats...

Just over a month ago, an embarrassing blunder jeopardized McKinney's relationship with her party's own presidential candidate.

Late one Friday afternoon, McKinney's office faxed news organizations a statement blasting Vice President Al Gore's low "Negro tolerance level" and accusing him of seldom having more than one black in his presence.


More here:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh040606.shtml

[RestoreGore]

226. And?

What did Al Gore say in return, and was she taken out of context? And you bring this up because of my name to do what exactly? Again, she was a good Progressive voice and had a solid Progressive voting record. I'm not going to sit here and nit pick with you over a link to an article. it didn't seem to bother Al Gore, but maybe that is because he knows what is truly important besides the BS that is slung out here. No wonder he said this process is toxic. He is exactly right.

[NYCGirl]

228. It may not have bothered him, but it may have bothered his campaign.

Taken out of context? She FAXED A WRITTEN LETTER to the newspapers!

[RestoreGore]

230. Again, And?

You obviously don't know if it bothered the campaign as you said "may." If you know for sure of any response, please post it. And you know what, people in the RW are saying worse about him now. Have you done anything to respond to any of them? I have. Perhaps you should also concentrate on the races now that really matter since you obviously got what you wanted here. I know he isn't what she supposedly claimed and if she really believes that she is misguided about him, but again, she was still a good Progressive voice in Congress for us NOW, which was really the point I was making.

[NYCGirl]

232. You asked "How was Cynthia McKinney an embarrasment?" and I answered.

BTW, you have no idea what I'm doing politically (although I think I may have posted about DFA).

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYCGirl]

219. Care to elaborate on that or are you just visiting briefly? NT

[Name removed]

222. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

220. This was a Democratic primary.

Both candidates are Democrats. It's okay to prefer one over the other. It's really unfortunate that some here think the candidate they prefer is THE ONE. That's as much nonsense as it is bullshit. Save the vitriol for the general election where it belongs.

[LetsGoMurphys]

223. much like in PA I had to hear about Chuck Penacchio

being the only viable candidate. spare me.

[AtomicKitten]

224. hang in there

wade through the silliness - there is intelligent life out there

:)

[LetsGoMurphys]

221. THANK GOD n/t