U.S. troops endure 125 degrees in Iraq

[deadparrot]

RAMADI, Iraq - After a long day searching homes in suffocating Iraqi heat, Lance Cpl. Mike Young saw a most surprising source of relief — a sprawling Wal-Mart had appeared in the distance.

"No joke — looking through the haze I thought I saw a Wal-Mart. I said to myself, 'I bet they got some cold water in there,'" Young said, recalling a mission last year in a rural area west of Baghdad.

He contemplated running over to fetch water for fellow Marines who were "staggering like dead men." Three of them had collapsed in the heat.

Young soon stirred from his heat-induced hallucination and returned to the struggle of enduring summertime in Iraq.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060807/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_scorching_heat

[adriennui]

1. this is cruelty

why are we in iraq? i still don't understand why the hell we don't get out. let the iraqis sort things out among themselves.

[leesa]

2. Cheney and his buddies are not finished looting our treasury.

[gratuitous]

3. Patrolling in the middle of the day?

Are the insurgents particularly active when it's 125° out? What in the world is the CO thinking, sending his men out at that time? And without adequate hydration?

Appalling. But Bill Kristol could show all us lazybones how it's done, if he could just arrange to get over to Iraq, I bet.

[MADem]

5. They do the siesta/riposo thing like other hot countries

The shops close down in the worst of the heat, say, a bit after noon or one PM, and open around four and stay open until late in the evening in the hot weather.

You'll ALWAYS see people going to and fro during the day in large cities, but it's way, way fewer than in the morning or later in the day. Of course, if I were an insurgent and I KNEW that the forces took an afternoon nap, that's when I'd be doing nefarious deeds.

What they need is AIR CONDITIONED APCs, is what they need.

[gratuitous]

6. I suppose

I'm sure the insurgents are very meticulous in their observations of our military's habits and procedures, and if there were no patrols out and about during the hottest part of the day, they'd notice that and respond appropriately.

But for heaven's sakes! Sending out patrols to go through houses all day long? Seems to me you'd get a much better result rotating shifts for one hour, maybe two, or having overlapped, staggered shifts of folks out on patrol. But then, that's probably more of a manpower equation, and the way the Bush administration has spent military personnel, that's a luxury we can no longer afford.

[MADem]

7. If they can't give them air conditioning, they can give them

a massive cooler full of water, AND one of those Sharper Image neck fans (they work great over there). The latter item ought to be standard issue in this heat, along with serious sunblock. And they oughta have a beeper that goes off every twenty minutes/half hour or so to remind people to DRINK WATER. Ya GOTTA stay hydrated; it will mess you up if you don't.



It wouldn't hurt if they shortened the patrols, either, or had two watch sections switch off over a longer period of time. Don't know if they are doing that, but it would make sense.

[davepc]

13. They have hydrations systems.

http://www.camelbak.com

The US Army standard is a 100oz unit.

[MADem]

18. Bet they don't carry those, though

Between the body armor, the hot vehicle...I'm trying to recall the last time I saw a photo with those in use in the papers or on the net.

And when you think about the drill kids had getting body armor, why do I wonder if these are a priority for distribution? I'm picturing the junior guy having to swing by the mess tent before duty and grabbing the 24 packs of bottled water for the rest of the crew....

But who knows. I'm not there, maybe someone who's just back can tell us...

[Skittles]

19. no, they don't have them

read anysoldier.com, they are always requesting misters and fans

[davepc]

20. Every single US soldier in theater is issued one of those

So I don't know what you're talking about when you say they don't have them. If a US soldier doesn't have a camelbak then he lost it or threw it away.

[Skittles]

21. well they must want more than one then

because it is a common request

[Lorien]

15. Those Sharper image devices work well. I use them here in Florida

and they really do make it seem 10-15 degrees cooler.

But Wal-Mart as an oasis? that's just sick! Sounds like that guy was delusional before the heat rolled in!

[adriennui]

9. what does bill kristol have to do with this thread.

please explain.the non-sequitors are bizarre.

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. He's a chickenshit, chickenhawk, PNAC member

Who is convinced that we had to invade Iraq and that we must stay there.

[adriennui]

14. but why single-out kristol?

oh, nevermind.

[gratuitous]

16. Whoops, sorry

Kristol has a recent rant (I'll try to find a link) wherein he said basically that Democrats are such scaredy-cats that they don't have a bold, audacious plan like the Bush administration for getting us out of Iraq. My immediate response that Kristol, being the visionary man of action that he is should sign up, get trained, get armed, and teach all us Democrats a lesson about how to conduct foreign policy. Which is to say, that I don't think Mr. Kristol has the least idea what sort of conditions our military is coping with in Iraq, and that it's quite easy to sit on one's overpaid and overpampered duff stateside and issue diktats about how inept the opposition is.

ON EDIT: Found it, link and money quote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/weeklystandard/20060807/cm_weeklystandard/antiwarantiisraelantijoe

But at least we have a president who knows we are at war with jihadist Islam. And he is willing to stake his presidency on that fight, and to support others, like Israel, who are in the same fight.

It's become clear, by contrast, that the Democratic party doesn't really want to fight jihadism. It's just too difficult.

***

Yeah, Mr. Kristol, tell us all about how you're going to strap on a sidearm and face down "jihadist Islam" like in the old west. Chickenhawk pantywaist.

[Toots]

24. We suffered similar temperatures in Vietnam

Only we didn't ride around in humvees. We humped and we humped mountains, some so steep we needed ropes to aid in climbing them. Insects were in everything and every place and snakes and leeches. When we climbed to the top of the mountain we had to cut a field of fire and dig a foxhole and cut an LZ. The next day we climbed down the mountain and up the other side because it was against policy to camp in valleys where we would give up the high ground. I just can't find the sympathy for these guys some of you all feel. Remember also they volunteered for this stuff..

[Felinity]

26. Two wrongs make a right?

You suffered in Vietnam, so no grousing about the heat in Iraq?

You suffered, so you have no compassion for others who are suffering from the hubris and corporate agenda of another failed attempt at teaching the world Democracy by force?

BTW, ever been in the desert without water for say, 3-4 hours? Even with shade, as I was in, you will dehydrate to the danger point.

Thank you for your service. I did my best to help bring you home.

[Bandit]

28. Why should volunteers bitch?

Are they so stupid they didn't know what they were volunteering for? You want the pat on the back without doing the deed that warrants it..

[Felinity]

29. Weak argument, try again.

I might suggest you go for "you sign away your rights when you enlist" or some of that nonsense. Steer clear of "defending your country," since it is now clear that the country needs defending from the liars that started this war.

OK, I'll give you a sentence on why your argument above is dumb. Our military is full of individuals who joined out of socio-economic desperation, who trusted our government to honor and defend the constitution, not the neo-con oil and war mongers' agenda.

Do you have any idea what percentage of the troops in Iraq enlisted within the last 24 months? The last 12 months? Get back to me on that, and I'll spare you another two sentences.

[stanwyck]

31. Disagreeing with the war

which is the highest form of patriotism, doesn't mean we need to consider those who have joined the military "stupid". My son, a Marine with two tours in Iraq, joined the military for his own reasons. He's a liberal who voted for Kerry. (and, twice, for Cynthia McKinney). He is not stupid. He is not a babykiller. I'm sure you realize that the military is used for many purposes. Some better than others. If you were an American stranded in Lebanon, you might have a different view of a "stupid" Marine who has been sent to get you and your children to safety.
And yes, my son does bitch about the heat in Iraq. Just as everyone living here in Atlanta does. Every day. It's what we humans do when it's hot.
It's a way of coping with difficult circumstances.
We should have legitimate, reasoned arguments against the invasion of Iraq.
But just calling people "stupid" for their career choice is, well, stupid.

[Bandit]

33. You need to learn how to read

I did not call anyone stupid. I asked a question whether that other poster considered them stupid. When a person volunteers for something they are usually pretty much aware of what they volunteer for unless they are stupid. I do not tolerate fools easily.

[Felinity]

34. In the world I live in we have this thing called logic

1, If you volunteer for something, you are stupid if you do not accurately predict your future.

2. You have no right to complain if that which you are experiencing as a result of your volunteering is hideously uncomfortable, AND a direct result of decision making by your superiors--decision making that does not align with the oath you took upon volunteering.

3. If you complain about the conditions "in the trenches" you are stupid for not being psychic enough to have anticipated that your country would dishonor your service by wasting one or more years of your life destroying a foreign country and dishonoring our own.

To respond directly to your question, no, I do not consider our troops stupid for volunteering. I consider the decision making by the Administration regarding this war Stupid. I consider Donald Rumsfield Stupid.

I do not suffer fools well, either. I am suffering just a wee bit right now.

[stanwyck]

37. "are they so stupid"

those are your words.
Intolerance and lack of empathy are not attractive qualities on the left, either, though generally less expected.

[SpiralHawk]

4. Meanwhile, back at the ice-cold air-conditioned splendor of the

Imperial Pig Farm Upon Crawford, pResident AWOL continued to pretend he did not lie to Americans about WMDs -- and to count the Massive Profits that he and his republicon oil cronies have been raking in while hard-working Americans pay and pay and pay at the pump.

P.S. "I don't believe all that global waming BS. Just go AWOL from your responsibilities like me, and max out the AC and everything is cool." Commander Deserter

[Malva Zebrina]

8. Jesus--and with all that body armour on all over their whole body

just so they can bring democracy to a country that has marched in the streets by the thousands, against Bush and Israel.

There is no two ways about it. Bush is using our troops to "stay the course" and die just to prevent any criticism of his kingly regime--meaning he thinks he is a dictator. He abuses his own troops, but then, what does he know? He did not even know that Shiites and Kurds and Sunnis were diferent sects. He DID NOT KNOW THAT and thuis is the idiot we have calling himself a "war president"?

And where the hell is he? IN crawford--on f*cking vacation--booZIng it up probably and leaving all the hard decisions to who? Why to the neoc ons who most likely are advising him to do nothuing ABOUT the chaoes going on in the ME and getting worse by the day. No, our dear, spoiled, college frat boy, is on a gaddam frikken vacation--and C ondi joins him , pumpging in her daily workout, and he on his daily bikey ride--and where the hell is Cheney,BTW?

Had enough yet? Apparently not. We just sit and type and think someone is listening to these rants. What on earth is the matter with you young people that you cannot get up enough gumption to storm the streets in protest? Where the hell are you, except in front of your computers, ranting and raving?

He has bludgeoned us all. He continues to be out of the loop, he is nothuing but a trained monkey following the neo con agenda. He is despicable.

And all our letter writing and protests, were in vain. And now we have a new contender on the horizon--Hillary Clinton--who firmly supported the action and the invasion and the slaughter in Iraq. Will she be the next one we will be forced to vote for, via the "committees" who will propel her forward--AGAIN? Forced to vote for a person who supported the idiot to invade and kill and destroy and who has refused to address that gawn awful, disgusting vote?

Move on. We need to get beyond what is being forced upon us. and as I type, I am hoping and wishing that Lamont overtakes the war mongering LIeberman tommorrow. This is democracy and no soldier in Iraq is fighting to defend this democracy. They are fighting because a stupid man, a cowardly man whose own service in tegh militarty is tainted, sent them there to die, and for his own greed--they are NOT defending this democracy at all. Get that out of the military's head. They are merely pawns in the game of a little rich boy, who does not even have a resume and who arrogantly declares he is a "war president"

Well, anyhow, he is now on vacation. Ain't that grand? Condi too. Aint' she grand?

[im10ashus]

10. I don't know what's worse.

Them having to endure such cruel circumstances as the heat or hallucinating that Wal-Mart is the only source for relief.

[Canuckistanian]

25. Now people are seeing Walmarts in their mirages?

It used to be oases or cool streams or mountain lakes.

Now they're seeing big-box stores as paradises?

There's something seriously wrong with this picture.

[maxsolomon]

12. such a poverty of imagination

i'd hallucinate something better - the bagdhad deja vu.

[NoSheep]

23. My thoughts exactly. Wal-Mart is probably where his recruiter

found him.

[lonestarnot]

17. Got another $500.00 a plate lunch coming up this week in an airconditioned

Phoenician, Biltmore or some other lahteeda, $3K a night a night no doubt. I will be there to welcome to enjoy their lunch. I hope the motherfuckers choke.

[Vinca]

22. During last week's heat wave, I was thinking of our soldiers in Iraq.

The weather we were experiencing would have been comfortable to them and the poor souls are loaded down with almost a hundred pounds of gear, flack jackets, helmets, weapons. It's inhumane. It's also inhumane for Iraqi citizens to be living without electricity to run air conditioners.

[stanwyck]

27. My son lost 20 lbs. during his last tour

not due to lack of food. He says there is plenty of food for the troops. But because it was so hot he just didn't have that much of an appetite.

[Felinity]

30. Perhaps you can help out above

Any response for comment #28?

[stanwyck]

32. Done.

I'm resigned to the realization that some of our liberal brethren will never have any understanding that the military is made up of individuals with their own personal reasons for choosing the military. And, unfortunately, it is these closed-minded brethren who so often get quoted by the rightwing as examples of liberal snugness and intolerance.

[Felinity]

35. Thanks for the assist

As you see above, it did not do much to dissuade.

[stanwyck]

38. well, even at DU

we have our spoiled children.

[Megahurtz]

36. This is beyond insane. n/t

[Lisa]

39. remember Bush's "Hundred Degree Club"?

He makes a big deal about going out jogging in Crawford when the temperature hits 100 degrees. I bet he would change his tune if he had to live in a tent with no showers and not enough water, when the temperature was higher than that, night and day, for 6 months! I hope he gets to experience that someday, I really do.

I don't do well in heat -- I really feel sorry for those troops out there ... and for the Iraqi people, who often don't have access to electricity and water during the summer.