Reuters: Peaceful succession underway in Cuba: official

[Up2Late]

(Wonder how Fox "news" will distort this?)

Peaceful succession underway in Cuba: official

Mon Aug 7, 2006 1:16pm ET136

By Anthony Boadle

HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuban officials on Monday mocked opponents who had hoped that unrest would erupt in the Communist-ruled nation following the hospitalization of veteran leader Fidel Castro.

In the latest of several messages from Washington aimed at encouraging Cubans to push for change, President Bush said Cubans should decide their own form of government.

A leading intellectual and Cuban government member said the country had set in motion a "peaceful succession" -- the first official to use the word succession. It was not clear whether his use of the term implied that Castro's handover of power to his brother Raul will turn out to be permanent.

Fidel Castro remained convalescing out of sight on Monday, one week after surgery for internal bleeding forced him to put Raul Castro provisionally in charge of the island he has dominated for 47 years.

(more at link) <http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=TopNews&storyID=2006-08-07T171636Z_01_N01421207_RTRUKOC_0_US-CUBA.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsArt-L3-Top+NewsNews-4>

[On the Road]

1. If Cuba Is a Dictatorship,

one would expect unrest and a power struggle to erupt. I think RWers (and a lot of Democrats) who are used to referring to Cuba as a dictatorship are going to be surprised at how unified the country is and how smooth the transition goes.

[SteppingRazor]

3. The USSR was essentially a dictatorship -- or at least an oligarchy...

and power changed hands there just fine, several times.

Dictatorships don't always come crashing down upon the death of the dictator -- otherwise, we wouldn't have had nothing but monarchies for more than a thousand years. Just sayin'.


Oh, and The Band rules! :thumbsup:

[John Q. Citizen]

7. I agree. Mexico was the world's longest dictatorship (75 years)

until The Pan took power with V. Fox.

Now they are headed back to the "old" model.

[Endangered Specie]

70. Same logic also applies to North Korea...

relatively smooth transition, outright dictatorship.

[Up2Late]

5. I just want to know how the Bush Cabal are going to explaine all these...

...4 and 5 star, $200-$400 per night, all inclusive Beach resorts, after telling us for over 40 years that Cuba is a tropical waste-land, full of poor, angery people, check it out, I found this website this weekend:

<http://www.cubahotelbookings.com/default.asp?lID=1>

<http://www.cubahotelbookings.com/hotel-list.asp?lID=1&tID=23>







Hotel Melia Las Americas ***** (5 Star) <http://www.cubahotelbookings.com/hotel-view.asp?lID=1&hID=145&show=1>







Hotel Paradisus Varadero ***** (5 Star) <http://www.cubahotelbookings.com/hotel-view.asp?lID=1&hID=153&show=1>







Hotel Sol Cayo Guillermo **** (4 Star) <http://www.cubahotelbookings.com/hotel-view.asp?lID=1&hID=157&show=1>

Looks like they have as many 4 and 5 Star Beach Hotels as Florida! :crazy: :party:

Here's a website that has good maps of Cuba, since they are rather hard to find here in the U.S. of A.:
<http://www.cubamapa.com/>

[SteppingRazor]

8. I would point out, though, that Havana slums look quite a bit different...

than these picturesque resorts.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Have you ever been to Liberty City?

Everyone has slums.

[SteppingRazor]

15. Sure I have...

I'm just saying that Cuban resorts don't paint a picture of everyday Cuban life.

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. Neither do ours

I really don't know what Cuba is like, since I've never been there. Have you?

I don't think Cuba is any better or worse then most other 3rd world countries.

[SteppingRazor]

21. Yes, I have been there...

which is why I feel qualified to discuss Havana's slums. I could go into more detail about the prepubescent prostitutes on the street corners -- something I found lacking in Liberty City, I'd point out -- but why get into the really ugly side of things?

The only place in the Caribbean that I find to be worse than Cuba, economy-wise, is Haiti. Jamaica's desperately poor, but my couple of times on that island have led me to believe it's in better straights than Cuba. Of course, I have to admit, I didn't go into Trenchtown in Kingston, the way I've been to areas around Vedado in Havana, Cuba or the aforementioned Liberty City -- but, hey, there's only so much a white boy can do. They don't exactly appreciate "chalky baldheads" in Trenchtown, savvy? ;)

[mitchtv]

43. the worst I've seen were in Argentina (Tucuman)

ut no, haven't been to Cuba. The fabellas of Brazil seem to be reputedly, the worst.

[SteppingRazor]

44. Alas, never been to El Sur...

but I hope to go someday soon! :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

48. Well, I've got to give you credit then

I didn't mean to get on your case about it, it's just so many people buy the M$M version of things and not from first hand experience.

As for prepubescent prostitutes in Liberty City, I'm sure there are at least a few but you have to get past the crack dealers on every corner first.

I didn't get to go to Kingston when I visited Jamaica, but I did get away from the tourist areas. Took a trip down to Savannah del Mar, which is probably more similar to Kingston but on a smaller scale. Interesting place. One of the weirdest things I had happen was in Montego Bay while waiting for a bus. A black woman came by with a beautiful little girl about 3 years old. She asked me to take her. I told her I couldn't possibly do that. She said again, please just take her, she'll have a better life. Things must suck when you're willing to just give your child to a stranger.

I have one friend from So. FL, who was one of the Pedro Pan kids. Talk about desperate. These are kids whose parents were willing to given them up to strangers just to get them out of Cuba. It's a crazy world.

[Judi Lynn]

50. You might find this interesting, concerning the Pedro Pan children,

from wikipedia. It has been discussed on Cuban/US relations boards for years:

Many observers and participants of Operation Pedro Pan have speculated that the operation was contrived by the United States to strengthen anti-government actions and activity in Cuba. Cuban radio reportedly made references to fears that the new government would remove children from their parents, one such broadcast in 1960 is said have stated "Cuban mothers, don't let them take your children away! The Revolutionary Government will take them away from you when they turn five and will keep them until they are 18." <2> Professor Maria de los Angeles Torres, herself a "Peter Pan child", attests that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) initiated the visa waver program and deliberately spread the rumors that Cuban children would be taken from their parents by the Cuban government. The CIA has denied this claim. <3>

In 1962 the US government commissioned a documentary film created for the children who came to Miami, called The Lost Apple. The film was anti-communist in nature, explicitly naming Cuban premier Fidel Castro as being responsible for the parents' non-appearance. According to Torres, then-Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy approved making the documentary as part of the US government’s campaign against Communism. <4>
(snip)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Peter_Pan

Senator Mel Martinez who was also _Bush's Secretary of Housing was a Pedro Pan child.

[Up2Late]

22. What I'm saying is, the Havana slums are all the U.S. media ever shows...

...us when they talk about Cuba, they never mention that that is only a tiny part of Cuba or show us the huge amounts of non-U.S. investment in Cuba.

It's very similar to what they did during the Cold War, If you go back and look, you will find very few pictures of Pretty, Young women in the old U.S.S.R. or Eastern Europe.

Think back, all we get is pro-American propaganda about our "enemies."

[SteppingRazor]

24. Your point is certainly well taken...

but the fact remains that Cuba is, indeed, a desperately poor country, the U.S. media's insistence on documenting this segment of Cuban society notwithstanding.

[MrPrax]

33. But a lot of that poverty

can be placed on the fact that Cuba can't trade with the region's largest trading partner?

That explains a lot of it -- how then do you explain the abject poverty in say Puerto Rico that freely trades with the US? So does the Dominican Republic and a staggering number of dictatorial shitholes that freely trade with the US? Is poverty there DIFFERENT? Parts of the US midwest rust belt look like parts of the Eastern Bloc.

It's fine to root for the home team -- but let's not kid outselves about the causes of poverty and the lack of adequate safeguards to protect the socio-economic hazards associated with it.

How do you think poverty is created? The world is mostly ALL capitalist countries and yet there are nearly 4 billion people living on less than one US dollar a day? What is the excuse here -- they are all losers that don't work hard enough? They choose to be poor? They all live in dicatorships?

Come on you can do better

[SteppingRazor]

35. I'm finding a hard time disagreeing with anything you say...

I didn't lay the blame for Cuban poverty at the feet of the Castro regime, or the United States embargo, or anywhere else. I just said the place is dirt poor. And yes, the other places you named aren't a whole lot better, economically speaking. I guess I just fail to see how we're disagreeing here. Enlighten me? :shrug:

[MrPrax]

38. If you notice I didn't use claws...

but you can find slums anywhere...poverty is poverty

Being a socialist...I tend to see them being the same; the only big difference is ownership.

One is private, one is state.

That's all...I just never bought the 'our side is better than your' garbage when both sets of systems tend to do the exact same thing; unending growth based expansion, exploitation and power based largely upon elite ownership that is inequitable. Capitalist regimes tend to be focused on consumption, commie regime tend towards production.

Cuba is hated because it's a competitor and has found an angle to make itself rise above the other ten thousand sandy beaches in the world that fancy themselves tourist countries. If they are working on creating a more benign 'revenue model' based on something different than what the US is offering, then viva le difference, I say. If working people like me make out better, then I favour it.

If it were really up to the Cuban people, most would reject both models and probably think that one of those boring little social welfare states in Scandinavia is a good compromise. But the US wouldn't like that either...so what are you going to do.

Whether Cuba is commie or not is really irrelevent in light of the trade with Vietnam, China, or a whole slew of shitty little hellholes that have a class of dictatorial elites who don't even bother providing basic medical (which Cuba does)...objectively speaking, there isn't anything that Cuba does anymore that is being done in spades and then some by our so-called allies.

The Cuba thing is pure political cynicism and should have been normalized years ago.

[TomClash]

47. Santo Domingo is worse than Havana economically

SD slums are worse. Havana is nicer than Telgucigalpa or San Salvador, but not as nice as San Jose.

[SteppingRazor]

54. Alas, I was only in Havana ... can't comment on the rest of the island...

or on the Central American towns you named, for that matter. Havana's a big place, and I only had a few days to see everything!

[Mika]

57. "I only had a few days to see everything!"

Oh. Then you are most eminently qualified.

A few days is all one needs to be qualified in anything as complex as Cuba and its infrastructure. Right.

Must've spend 100% of your time investigating the intricacies Havana's "slums".. oh.. that's right.. you didn't.

--

At least you have been in Cuba. :thumbsup:

--

I've been to much of Cuba on many trips - some extended stays too. I have also been around much of the Caribbean and Latin Americas (doing work for charitable dental groups). I can assure everyone reading this that Cuba does not have the levels of desperation and abject poverty that I've seen in the D.R., Guatemala, Salvador, Brazil, to name a few places. In those places few poor have access to any kind of health care and/or quality education. This is just not the case in Cuba. So, when some discuss Cuba's "poverty" one must keep in mind that Cuba spends a disproportionate amount of its GDP (in comparison with the other aforementioned countries) on its high quality universal education and universal health care systems. There are no homeless in Cuba - housing is a fundemental right, and achieved, there. There are no glue huffing swarms of street kids begging or robbing tourists and citizens on the streets anywhere in Cuba. In this regard Cubans are not poverty stricken nor desperate. Now, you won't find a single post of mine where I define Cuba as some sort of paradise, BUT, Cubans in Cuba are certainly not desperately poor and suffering for social infrastructure that protects them in times of need and that educates them.

I have been there, and I have seen it function quite well. Castro didn't do this. The Cuban people have done this, and continue to do these things, with sweat and toil and hard work and investment in their children's future.

[SteppingRazor]

58. Your sarcasm is greatly appreciated n/t

[Judi Lynn]

71. Nothing substitutes for actual experience.

I would trust the words of someone who really knows what he's talking about.

Appreciate your reality-based comments always.

On edit: adding photos of Carnaval in Bayamo, Cuba I found on the internet! (You remember I asked you how if you'd ever been to Bayamo recently, after running into someone's travel comments on the place.)




Some travel photos from a search:
http://perso.orange.fr/a.mi.danse/Photo/photo-cuba-ete-2004/Cuba-ete-2004.html

[RebelOne]

56. Yes, I lived in Miami and I avoided Liberty City whenever possible.

[Marie26]

9. How many Cubans stay there?

These hotels are mostly for the many Europeans who vacation in Cuba. Cuba is a very poor country, due either to Castro's policies or the US sanctions (I mostly blame the sanctions.)

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. How many people do you know that can afford to stay here?

The Breakers - Palm Beach, FL

[SteppingRazor]

16. It's also a bit far fetched to compare Cuban resorts to The Breakers...

resorts in Cuba are far more reasonable, actually. Although, to be fair, The bar at The Breakers makes the best damned martini I've ever had.

[Marie26]

23. When you were at

Cuban resorts, who were the majority of the clientele?

[SteppingRazor]

26. Never been to a Cuban resort...

I don't like resorts in general. I find them too confining. They sort of sequester you in this tiny place, and you don't get to see much of the real country. I stayed at the Tryp Habana Libre in the Vedado area of Havana (fun fact: it was the Havana Hilton pre-revolution).

[Marie26]

52. Sounds like fun

I don't like resorts either - they all seem so artificial & fake; like a Disneyland for US tourists. That's no way to experience a country. One of my dreams is to go to Cuba someday - maybe I should try the Habana Libre!

[SteppingRazor]

55. If you can get in, go for it!

It was easier for me, being a journalist. But you can always make a Mexican or Bahamian stopover and then get in the country. It's not as hard as people make it out to be. I met a few American tourists while I was there -- though there were many more from Europe.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yupster]

62. Do Cubans have the hard currency

needed to stay at them?

Only if they have relatives in the US sending it to them.

Otherwise those nice resorts are off-limits to them unless they work there, which many do since you can make more driving taxis for foreignors than as professors or doctors.

[Nederland]

32. I wonder...

...how many Cubans can afford to stay in those hotels. I'm thinking...none?

[Up2Late]

42. That's not my point, I explained my point above in a reply to S.R....

...and to add to my reply above, they provide a lot of jobs you never hear about in the U.S. media too.

It's very much like Orlando, Florida (where I did "live" for 5 years), most of the people who live near Orlando can't afford to stay at the resort Hotels near Disney and Orlando either, let alone, afford to go to the the Disney Parks now, the average pay in and around Orlando is very low for most people who work in most resort areas.

I bet their is at least as much poverty and "Working Poor" living in Central Florida, per capita, as there are people in the same financial situation in Cuba.

I bet there are far more people without access to basic preventative Heath Care in Central Florida too (due to no affordable heath insurance, let alone affordable heath care without heath insurance).

[Yupster]

63. How many Cubans have

hard currency to pay for the resorts regardless of price?

Maybe if you have relatives send it to you from Miami.

[davidinalameda]

68. and these are open to the average Cuban?

[Taoschick]

73. I've heard

The resorts in Cuba are beautiful.

It's too bad the only time Cuban's are allowed in them is when they show up for work. So much for egalitarianism.

[Akim]

31. Fidel Was Elected By the Love of His People

Cuba is not a dictatorship if you mean that it is ruled without the consent of the people. The people gave their consent 47 years ago in the most democratic process imaginable -- a popular revolution where people did not just drop a slip of paper in a ballot box to signify their assent, but put their lives on the line to affirm their support for Fidel and the Revolution. Elections (and crooked ones, at that) result in mediocre men like Bush coming to power. Revolutions validate the rule of extraordinary men like Fidel. With a leader of Fidel's stature is it a surprise that the Cuban people have not wanted any other in 47 years. Or that they still cling to the hope that they will have Fidel for many years to come?

[Marie26]

36. "Elected by Love."

C'mon. I agree that he is loved by many in Cuba, but that doesn't change the fact that he is not an elected leader. Revolutions don't always make democracies.

[hughee99]

45. Yes, 47 years ago, the people consented to Castro

And when Castro took over, he abolished elections...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/1/newsid_2479000/2479867.stm

"Cuba's prime minister, Dr Fidel Castro, has proclaimed Cuba a socialist nation and abolished elections.
Hundreds of thousands of Cubans attending a May Day parade in the capital Havana roared with approval when their leader announced: "The revolution has no time for elections. There is no more democratic government in Latin America than the revolutionary government."

Since the mean age of the people of Cuba is 35.9, more than half of the population wasn't even around 47 years ago to consent to his leadership, and given that Castro is only reelected by the Cuban legislature (all 609 of which are members of the Communist Party of Cuba (Cuba's only legal political party, which Castro is the head of), and ran uncontested), and not by the people of Cuba themselves, can you really say that the people have consented?

I'm not saying that Castro's a bad leader, or that the Cuban people don't want him to continue as president, I'm just saying that it seems a stretch to say that the Cuban people have much say in who rules their country.

[Judi Lynn]

49. There are DU'ers here who have been in Cuba DURING elections.

Nice try.

[hughee99]

53. Sorry, I don't think I was really stating my point clearly.

Castro, was elected by the 609 members of the National Assembly of People's Power (the Cuban legislature), all of which ran uncontested in the last election (yes, they do have elections now), and all of which are members of the Communist Party of Cuba (Cuba's only legal political party until 1992), which Castro is the head of. While it is no longer illegal to form political parties in Cuba, it is illegal for political parties to campaign, so even if a candidate comes from such a party (and is approved by their local Candidacy Commission), they would not be allowed to present their views to the voters with any kind of campaign.

To me, this system seems pretty well rigged to maintain the status quo, and whether Castro was popular in Cuba or not, the elections would produce the same result.

[Yupster]

64. Oh please

Castro had about 1,000 fighters when Batista left. The population was excited to be rid of Batista for sure, but they had little idea of what he would do once he took power.

So 47 years later that is his legitimacy?

I'm reminded of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail," where the king tells the peasant that he was selected by some mythical woman who emerged from the lake and gave him a sword and the peasant says something like "getting a sword handed to you from a tart in a swamp doesn't make you a legitimate ruler," and then the king swats him and he says "I'm being oppressed, did everyone see that?"

[Spinoza]

75. The succession in N. Korea

from father to son was bloodless and without overt unrest. Perhaps the successin in Cuba from brother to brother will be the same. That proves nothing.

[gratuitous]

2. Oh, just you wait, Cuba

The Bush administration has all kinds of plans that have been mouldering on the shelf for decades for just this moment. A "peaceful" succession just isn't in the cards for the GOP and its batshit insane pals in the Cuban expatriate community, Mas Canosa Wing.

[kurth]

4. Cuba will be Communist for a long time - like China and Vietnam

It's not ideology, it's inertia and power.

[Up2Late]

6. China is not Communist anymore, I'm not sure what to call it now...

...but it's definitely NOT Communist, and Vietnam is moving in the same direction too.

[kurth]

10. Well, all run by the Communist Party

Basically just a brand name for a one-party system.

[rayofreason]

40. China is an Imperial Capitalist Oligarchy.

Old patterns of behavior die hard, especially when they are thousands of years old. Anyone who has been to Beijing or Shanghai recently (as I have) will attest that China is anything but a communist/socialist state. The economy is definately wild, no holds barred, on steroids, with everyone trying to make a yuan. That said, it is still a very controlled society, with little political freedom outside of the corporatist party environment. Much like the Mandarin class of old, really. Except without the exams.

[Robbien]

12. True, it is a mixture which seems to work

While the people cannot participate in the government, the government does seem to work for the people.

Not too bad in comparison to the US. We may or may not get to participate in the government and the government works for the rich elite.

As a tree hugging progressive, their's sound more to my liking.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. The government of China is most certainly not...

...working FOR its people, as anyone who's ever traveled to one of their filthy new industrial cities will tell you.

[Robbien]

28. I agree with you about China, but we are talking about Cuba here

and Central and South America governments are a completely different story than East Asia.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. Sorry.

Thought your response was directed at the previous post about China. Disregard.

[Johnyawl]

25. And yet China and Vietnam are STILL ruled by the "Communist Party"...

..with no opposition. In both China and Vietnam at the moment, all the political struggle is taking place within the Communist Party between reformist elements and the old guard, hardline marxists. Those hardliners who would undo all economic and political reform have not disappeared, they are merely in the minority at the moment. Give them any glitch or hiccup in their national ambitions, say an economic crises, and they will reassert themselves.

I would imagine a post-Fidel Cuba is going to look pretty much the same, at least in the short term. From a recent post here on DU listing who's who in the Cuban Government, it appears that there are no shortage of reformists within the upper echelons of the Communist party.

One of the legacies of 47 years of Communist Rule in Cuba is a virtual 100% literacy rate. I can't help but feel that statistic bodes well for the people in Cuba, and frustration for the cubanos in Miami.

[Xithras]

30. True, and speculation is that Raul wants a China type system.

One of the problems that Raul Castro is going to face is his lack of emotional support among the population. What many on the right here in the US fail to understand about Cuba is that most Cubans adore Fidel. He is seen as an almost grandfatherly figure who may not always be right, but who must always be respected and who has their best interests at heart (no arguing his intents please, I'm talking about perceptions here). Raul Castro doesn't have any of that cache with the people of Cuba. Sure, he's Fidel's little brother and he is well represented in the countries history books, but he doesn't have that reputation as being the countries savior or grandfather.

For Raul to maintain the support of the people, he will have to win their affection differently. Allegedly, his communist ideals have swayed more towards socialist over the past few decades, and he's been the driving force behind opening Cuban export markets to other central American nations to improve their economy. When he takes over permanently, the informed speculation is that he intends to gain the peoples support by dramatically improving the economy of the country, both by opening up trade and by soliciting foreign investment. Basically, most people who have really studied his recent political actions (starting with the fall off the USSR) assume that he will adopt a benevolent version of the China model.

[ronnykmarshall]

11. Is Raul taking over for good?

Fidel must be worse off than reported.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. Butbutbut... Hugo said he was OK!

Fidel Castro and Ariel Sharon, the two Terri Schiavos of the political world. It couldn't happen to two nicer people.

[Marie26]

20. Ya think?

It sounds like they've already transferred power permenantly to a new leader. Though it's a little odd that the successor wasn't named in this article.

[Akim]

34. Was Fidel Poisoned by the CIA?

There are two possible causes for intestinal bleeding -- a malignant tumour or poisoning. Can it be that the CIA has finally gotten its quarry? How despicable is that, and yet what one would expect from the Miami mafia and their bendover buddy President-by-Fraud Bush.

[Robbien]

37. Aw come on, Castro is in his eighties

Not to say his enemies are not dirty dogs

But maintaining good health in one's eighties takes a lot of work and I believe Castro has other priorities, such as having fun and fending off the US and running a country.

Intestinal bleeding is a bogeyman we should all should watch out for as we continue to age.

[Judi Lynn]

39. It's almost ordinary that when American Congresspeople and governors

and others go to Havana, not to mention dignitaries of other countries, they write of their evenings spent with him lasting over 6 hours, while he questions them intensively for information, and answers theirs, surprising them all with his knowledge of American events, and continuing thirst for knowledge.

They have always brought back glowing reports, indicating they are impressed that he has such an active, inquiring mind and outgoing interest, and they almost all note he has gone over 6 hours of constant communication with them and the other members of their groups.

He has done so many of these things just with Americans, that you have to imagine, since so much real business in Cuba is actually with other countries, that almost all his time is taken by communication and preparing for more communication, yet he still shows up for events all over his country, as well.

He has really knocked himself out all this time, going non-stop.

A poster here has even been there when he arrived for an event outdoors in a jeep, with no mob of security around him.

[rayofreason]

41. Yep..

...colonoscopies may not be fun (for most people), but males over 50 should get them regularly. It will save your life.

[happyslug]

51. Longest ruler since Louis XIV?

Louis XIV ruled France for 72 years (Through only 52 of those years by himself, Louis XIV become king when he was five and thus did not rule till the death of Cardinal Mazarin in 1661). Pharaoh Pepi II is believed to have ruled for 90 years (Through recent research has indicated that he may have died in his 62 year of rule, but since no one claimed to be Pharaoh for another 28 years the Egyptians keep using his years as Pharaoh until new Pharaoh appeared in both Upper and lower Egypt, thus his "reign" was 90 years). The traditional view on Pepi II is that he was just an ineffective ruler in his last 28 years of his reign and thus is why we have no records of what he did during that time period.

Other long recent rulers include Tito who ruled Yugoslavia for 35 years (1945-1980) and the Emperor Hirohito who ruled japan for 63 years (Through mostly as a figure head after 1945) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito

List of Egyptian Pharaohs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pharaohs

Louis XIV:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_of_France

The longest reigning English monarch was Victoria at 63 years, followed by her Grandfather George III who ruled for 60 years. Henry III (King John's son) ruled for 56 years thus becoming the third longest English Monarch. Edward III (Grandson to Edward I of Brave-heart fame) ruled for 50 years and Henry IV ruled for 49 years if you ignore the ten years he spent in the tower as the prisoner of Edward IV (Brother of the more Famous Richard III).
http://www.britannia.com/history/h6f.html

Augustus Caesar ruled Rome for 61 years, and thus the longest reigning ruler who had real power (Pepi and Victoria did not have real power for most of their reign, and George III was insane off and on for the last 20 years of his rule).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Ceasar

Thus Castro 47 years reign is the longest since Hirohito and Victoria, and as a REAl ruler (as opposed to a figurehead the Kings and Queens have been since Victoria's time and the Emperor of Japan has been since 1945) since Louis XIV (And even Louis XIV did not rule till he was . It is rare to have some rule 20 years let alone 47 years. For example while Augustus ruled Rome for 61 years, the average rule of the Roman Emperor was 18 months (Compared to the average Rule of a US President which is just less than six years). This shows you how rare it is to rule for so long. Stalin only obtained power in 1927 dieing 26 years later in 1953. Hitler was in power only 13 years. Mao was in power only 27 years (1949-1976).

For more on Mao Zedong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

[Akim]

59. Herald-At-Arms of the Asinine

Happyslug, indeed! How Cute!

So you spent hours figuring out what monarchs have ruled the longest so that you could finally and triumphantly declare that Fidel Castro's 47-year old "reign" is the longest since Queen Victoria or Emperor Hirohito.

Well, that certainly earns you the title of <i>herald-at-arms of the asinine.</i>

You are wrong on several counts, however.

Cuba is a Republic, not a monarchy.

Nor is Fidel the longest-ruling head of state.

As it happens, a real monarch, King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand (Rama IX), holds that distinction. On Dec. 5 of this year he will mark the 60th anniversary of his reign.

[happyslug]

60. Another Monarch without power

The King of Thailand has Not had real power since 1932, when the Tail Military took over and allied themselves with Japan. This Alliance continued through WWII, with the Tail declaring war on the US after Pearl harbor (Which the Tail Ambassador to the US refused to deliver, through he did tell out Secretary of State of the Declaration). At the end of WWII, with Ho Chin Minh in control of most of Vietnam, the US decided it needed Tail support so both sides forgot about that Declaration of War and signed an alliance so that the US could use Thailand air bases to support the French in Indochina and the Nationalist In China. This alliance continued through Vietnam and today.

As to the Ambassador who refused to serve the Declaration of war and joined an anti-japanese Residence Group, but the tail Military stayed in power at the end of WWII till the 1990s when the Military do to economic hardships gave up power (i.e. the Military released radical reforms were needed and only an elected Government could get the people accept the reforms, the chief reason for the adoption of Democracy not only in Thailand, but Korea and Taiwan about the same time).

Anyway, back to the King. The King of Thailand has had no real power since the coup of 1932 made him a figurehead, thus he is more like Victoria than Fidel when it comes to actual power. The point of my thread was to show people who had ACTUAL POWER and how long they ruled NOT figureheads and puppets who can be used by anyone.

[Akim]

61. The King of Thailand Is Not a Figurehead

The King of Thailand is not a figurehead.

http://www.thingsasian.com/goto_article/article.1177.html


In 1992, Thais took to the streets of Bangkok to protest against the military, which had governed Thailand - nominally a constitutional monarchy since 1932 -- for almost twenty years. The military responded with bullets. For four days the slaughter continued, until the King of Thailand, Bhumibol Adujyadej or Rama IX, demanded that it end. It did -- abruptly. He summoned the leaders of the two warring parties to his palace and appointed a civilian interim prime minister. In Thailand, even generals must approach a sitting King by crawling on their hands and knees.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

66. you might want to tone down on the insults, newbie. nt

[Yupster]

65. Franz Joseph

sat on the Hapsburg throne of Austria-Hungary from 1848 to his death in 1917 (16?).

I met a very old lady from Czechoslovakia about 15 years ago who grew up under Franz Joseph.

She said everyone loved him, but her people were mistreated so.

[happyslug]

72. I forgot about old Franz-Joseph

And that is given his Successor's wife just died in 1989.

On Charles I of Austria-Hungary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_I_of_Austria

On his wife:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zita_of_Bourbon-Parma

[hedgehog]

46. This is the only good thing to come out of the Iraq War

We don't have the troops available to interfere in Cuba.

[DemCapitalist]

67. The king is dead. Long live the king.

Hopefully...

[Spinoza]

69. The Stalin succession

in the Soviet Union was also relatively bloodless (except for Beria). But the writing was on the wall. (Stalin's reign of 29 years (1924-1953) was actually short compared to Castro's reign of 47 years--and counting.)

[Akim]

76. Stalin and the Soviet Peoples Saved World from Naziism

Stalin and the Soviet peoples also saved the world from Naziism.

Stalinism died with Stalin.

Would Naziism have died with Hitler if he had been successful?

Of course, if Hitler had won World War II at least 75 percent of the world's population would have been gassed, or castrated and enslaved.

[Yupster]

77. As Stalinism died with Stalin, then

Hitlerism would have died with Hitler.

Goering would have been incredibly more compromising and "moderate" than Hitler was.

I saw aquote from Raul Castro lately something to teh point of no one will ever have the power that Fidel has. In the same way, Fidelism will die with Fidel.

I think it's pretty much the norm when charasmatic dictators die.

[Judi Lynn]

74. 400 intellectuals urge United States to respect Cuba's sovereignty

400 intellectuals urge United States to respect Cuba's sovereignty
08/08/2006

Many of the 400 letter signers are from Latin America, and numerous Nobel Peace laureates are listed, such as former Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa and activist Rigoberta Menchu of Guatemala.

Leftist intellectuals and human rights activists from around the world urged the United States Monday to not interfere in Cuba while Fidel Castro recovers from intestinal surgery, while the nation's parliament speaker said the U.S. would face "hell'' if it did.

Many of the 400 letter signers are from Latin America, and numerous Nobel Peace laureates are listed, such as former Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa and activist Rigoberta Menchu of Guatemala.

Announcing the letter at a news conference in Havana, leading Cuban writer Roberto Fernandez Retamar said Cubans are convinced that Fidel Castro's handover of power to his younger brother and defense minister Raul Castro is only temporary. "In a few months we'll have him back with us,'' said Retamar.
(snip/...)

http://www.eitb24.com/portal/eitb24/noticia/en/international-news/manifesto-400-intellectuals-urge-united-states-to-respect-cubas-s?itemId=B24_3216&cl=%2Feitb24%2Finternacional&idioma=en