Olmert tells Europe to stop preaching to Israel

[Karmadillo]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/06/AR2006080600151.html

BERLIN (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told European leaders to stop preaching to him about civilian war casualties in an interview published on Sunday in German newspaper Welt am Sonntag.

Olmert also said it would not be possible to completely destroy Hizbollah and insisted he did not underestimate them, saying they had fired just 3,000 of their arsenal of 15,000 rockets so far.

"Where do they get the right to preach to Israel?" Olmert said when asked about criticism from European capitals of Israeli military operations that have led to a heavy civilian toll.

"European countries attacked Kosovo and killed ten thousand civilians. Ten thousand! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket.

"I'm not saying it was wrong to intervene in Kosovo. But please: Don't preach to us about the treatment of civilians."

more...

[ixion]

1. Olmert is a war criminal, and belongs, along with BushCo, in

a cell in the Hague, IMO.

[leesa]

2. Ditto.

[IntiRaymi]

19. Actually, I think Olmert is right when he says this.

He is calling the europeans hypocrites, which they are. This does not absolve him of his crimes, since a bad thing is a bad thing, regardless of where the fingers are being currently pointed.
Would it be an exaggeration to say that the worst thing that has happened in world history, in the last 500 years, is the advent of European imperialism, to which Israel can thank its existence?
This question happens to come up, given that these old white men are busy accusing each other of whatnot?

[confludemocrat]

41. As if Europe and not the U.S. was running that show--gimme an F'in break

he's actually potshotting his only ally in the world-the U. S. of A., which is peculiar and not unnoticed by the rest of the world in its tranparent nonsensicalness

[jpkenny]

24. And Olmert needs to stop preaching to Hizbollah and the US.

The US needs to stop saying anything and to stop sending aid and more weapons to Israel. The US, whether or not we like it, has also committed war crimes and continues to do so.

[saigon68]

51. He has kiled numerous children

[Poll_Blind]

3. I don't care WHO leaves DU over it- COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT IS...

...A CRIME!

PB

[zreosumgame]

12. it is pure evil for the sake of being evil

n/t

[stepnw1f]

30. I'll Second That

actually those who don't like it should leave. They aren't liberal.... just posers.

[AliceWonderland]

54. Yes, agreed -- those driven away by condemnation of collective punishment

...should be gone.

[Spazito]

4. One thing comes across very clearly in this article...

Olmert doesn't give a damn about innocent civilians dying because of Israel's bombs. Cold blooded killer, imo.

[damntexdem]

21. The UN shouldn't preach to Israel ...

just because Isreal blows up its observation posts.

Well, maybe Olmert is right: the time for preaching is over. It's time for effective action against Israeli terrorism.

[BeHereNow]

27. Have patience...blowback is coming soon.

You can take that to the bank-
Trouble is, the blowback in not just going
to be directed at Israel, it will be directed at the US
for backing the entire mess.

I am very worried for our troops in the region,
as they are likely to bear the brunt of the
Neocon world banker oil men's quest for
hegemonic domination most heavily.

Then, I would wager we will see mini-attacks
here at home. Movie theaters, malls and the like.
What is really infuriating to ponder is the fact that
the people behind all of this, know this.
They don't care how many civilians die,
not in the ME, and not in America.
Witness, Katrina.

BHN

[Kagemusha]

5. He sounds just like that "fake" speech posted yesterday.

The one that led to a nice little GD flamewar, one suggested by a reporter - it specifically cited Kosovo too. And Chechnya, for that matter.

[SOS]

25. It's incredible

That Olmert would say these things. Bill Clinton must be delighted!

The Kosovo/Serbia bombing was done by NATO (US and Europe), not "the Europeans". Bill Clinton was the principal force behind it.

The line ""European countries attacked Kosovo and killed ten thousand civilians. Ten thousand!" is absurd.

The air campaign by NATO didn't inflict that number. It's a ridiculous statement. Human Rights Watch puts the number of civilians killed by NATO aerial bombardment at 500. The correct figure for the total dead is closer to 15,000. 97% of those deaths were on the ground between the KLA and the Yugoslavian military, the Serbian police and Serbian paramilitary forces.

Olmert needs to work on his analogies. This is complete nonsense.

[HereSince1628]

6. This had to come. The frustration must be mounting for Olmert

Hezbollah is a better equipped and capable enemy than he thought, Europe is chewing on him for a cease-fire and the Bush misadministration seems to keep pushing Israel for a more destruction so there can be a permanent peace.

[acmavm]

7. And people wonder why the world is turning against Israel.

[chimpymustgo]

9. Israel is wrong. Ohlmert is an ass and a war criminal. The WORLD

will not shut up.

[Karenina]

11. The Israelis

are quickly souring on Olmert. VERY QUICKLY.

[ananda]

8. Boy..

.. he has a nerve. Geez.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

46. Au Revoir

[Little Star]

13. Nice justification going on there! n/t

[Zero Division]

14. Hypocrisy?!

I think there's a rather stark difference in the two situations. Olmert conveniently left out a slight detail, the Bosnian genocide,(http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/12/11/bosher3415.htm) in order to make an idiotic charge of hypocrisy.
:eyes:


But such lapses of reasoning are to be expected when jingoism rules the mind.

[Stella_Artois]

15. Europe ?

I do seem to remember that the US had a hand in that as well.

Anyway, he wants Europe to stay out of it. Thats great, lets do exactly that. They can rely on some half trained conscripts from some African nation who sells its troops to the UN for some desperately need foreign currency when they want this force for their buffer zone.

[Karenina]

16. He's actually floated the request

for GERMAN troops to "buffer." :crazy:

[IndianaGreen]

38. Olmert and Merkel's idea of using German troops to protect Israel

on the Lebanese border is one of the most idiotic proposals I have ever heard from an Israeli PM.

Does Merkel think that doing this will atone for the crimes of a generation long gone? I have no clue what the hell Olmert was thinking for even suggesting it.

[rateyes]

17. Screw the Zionists, Screw Hezbollah, and Screw the

Fundamentalist Christians that keep this shit going. I wish we could gather them all up in one place and let them kill each other. As it is, they're going to end up killing all the rest of us. And, the sad thing about it is, WE'RE GOING TO LET THEM DO IT!!!

Piss on them all!!

[Massachusetts]

18. Its Hard to Disagree with your statement

Lennon has the right idea, looks like it would work from up here..............

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

J. Lennon

[BeHereNow]

28. Yes, let's ship them all to an island and let them kill eachother.

I think this is the best solution for world peace we have come up with yet.

Perhaps this is what John Lennon was hinting at
when he sang "Imagine" for truly it would
be such a nice world without the people who are
bent on killing us all.
Let them kill each other instead!

BHN

[damntexdem]

20. Europe could stop preaching -- and stop all support of Israel.

An effective intervention would be to coerce the terrorists with overwhelming force -- the terrorists: Hezbollah and the IDF. Of course, there will not be stomach for such an intervention. But it would help if support for Israel were reduced or terminated; and that would certainly add rationality to the calls for stopping support to Hezbollah.

[termo]

22. embargo

EU is the first economical partner, let's stop air, sea, land traffic and business.
EU economy will survive it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. As the article points out, the European country mainly responsible

for the 10,000 deaths was Serbia. NATO was estimated to have killed 500, when intervening in a vicious war between Serbia and Kosovan separatists, who between them killed the remaining 9,500. Milosevic of course ended up in The Hague. The NATO action is questionable; but it's easliy possible that more would have died if they hadn't used bombs. What can be said is that the action was proportionate; as opposed to the Israeli bombing.

[gunfan]

47. kosovo

First a few facts.

#1-Less than 3000 bodies from all sides have been found. Estimate as high as 100,000 were given to justify NATO action.

#2-500 is the one of the most conservative estimates given and has a very narrow definition of cause.

#3-Yugoslavia niether invaded another country nor threatened to do so.

#4-Serbia is now the only multicultural society left of the former Yugoslavia.


NATO bombed the tiny nation of Yugoslavia into the stone age in the most cowardly act of aggression in recent history, targeting civilians and their most basic infrastruction from the safety of 15,000 ft above. We did this on behalf of a known Islamo Fascist organization under the guise of humanitarianism.

Not only was this utterly disproportionate, we bombed the wrong side, occupied and soveriegn nation, built the largest military base since vietnam on their land, and allowed actuall ethnic cleansing to occur on our watch.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. Serbia was starting the ethnic cleansing

so no, it didn't invade another country. It was just massacring people within its own borders. That doesn't excuse it.

The 10,000 figure comes from the report for the International Criminal Tribunal, which concluded Serbia was responsible; the 500 from the Human Rights Watch report.

"Islamo Fascist"? Please justify that phrase, with respect to the political policies of whatever organisation you're talking about. Throwing around Republican talking points without some reasoning won't get you very far on DU.

[anotherdrew]

52. "Islamo Fascist" is not a rethug talking point - it's real

Islamo-Fascists have been on the radar of ANTI-Fascists for decades. Bush was just borrowing the term. The term does NOT imply in any way that ALL islam followers are fascists, in fact, the need for the term points out that only SOME are. The Muslim Brotherhood, the grand mufti, and others are exactly Islamo-Fascists. And as for anyone killing with the aim of setting up their own pet version of sharia law, is also a Fascist. We can oppose these bastards while opposing bush. Hell he and his party are complicit with Islamo-Fascist trends for many years. Saudi Arabia's ruling deserves the term complicity. Fascism in the end is little different than the kind of monarchy they practice, same with many of the other monarchies in the region.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. Which shows nothing about Kosovans

which was the accusation of the other poster.

How do you consider the Muslim Brotherhood 'Fascist'?

"And as for anyone killing with the aim of setting up their own pet version of sharia law, is also a Fascist".

That's a silly statement, and obviously wrong. People killing may be revolting against colonial masters - as the Muslim Brotherhood were. That doesn't make them 'fascist'.

[ksilvas]

26. Isreal did it's share of preaching after 9/11.

"Now america knows how we feel",
"We've been dealing with this for all this time".
Kill the terroristists, yada, yada.
Boy talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[Disturbed]

29. Hizbullah is at fault for the many civillian deaths in Lebenon?

There have been quite a few actions by the Israeli AF that counter this falsehood. Disclaimer: Hizbullah is also guilty of wrongdoing in this conflict. "Nobody's right when everyone is wrong." Destroying Lebanon is not the solution to Israel's problems.

[Clarkie1]

31. Hezbollah is at fault for a lot of the civilian deaths in Lebanon.

Impossible to put an exact number on it, but they do put themselves in positions to maximize civilian casualities as a matter of policy.

[BeHereNow]

32. You might want to read up on that-

The concensus of the majority of political analysts
would disagree with your premise.
They say the militants deliberately avoid
civilians as much as possible in order to
keep from being identified and captured.

BHN

[jonnyblitz]

35. I read that the militants don't trust the civilians. nt

[Clarkie1]

36. That is not happening now.

Civilians are not out to capture Hezbollah fighters.

[confludemocrat]

40. Israel has regularly bombed or otherwise killed human shields so,

the argument that Hezbolllah uses them as an excuse for their atrocities is just plain cynicism
From antiwar.com
"Israel’s defenders like to point out that leaflets often warn residents of an impending strike, but these same leaflets also warn Hezbollah. So if the enemy has left the building too, what’s the point of demolishing it? Even without leaflets, if the Lebanese know that rocket launchers will attract Israeli attacks, why do they remain in those buildings? They didn’t notice somebody launching a rocket from their backyard? Israeli Ambassador to the UN, Dan Gillerman, has suggested that Hezbollah force the civilians, “in a cynical and brutal way,” to remain behind as shields, but that doesn’t make any sense. The Israelis have demonstrated that they will bomb human shields. Besides, if the Israelis truly believe that those civilians are hostages, that’s one more reason to make sure they are not attacked."

[frankieT]

44. what proof besides Israeli propaganda ? -eom-

[savemefromdumbya]

33. Need a new governemnt in Israel

[Disturbed]

34. BeHereNow, my statement concurs with yours.

I meant that Hizbullah is not purposefully using civilians as shields.

[IndianaGreen]

37. Who? Bibi and his Likud?

Those people are so crazy that even Sharon had to bolt the party after they called him a Hitler for even suggesting pulling out of Gaza.

The main problem is in the White House, a man that sees the Middle East through the lens of his idiotic Biblical apocalyptic theology.

As to Olmert and Perets, I am very disappointed in both of them for falling into the trap of using military force to resolve problems that could have best been addressed by sitting across the table from you enemy and saying "let's make a deal!"

[savemefromdumbya]

39. Perhaps the US could impose a government on Israel like they did in Iraq?

LOL! Can you imagine it?

[IndianaGreen]

42. I wouldn't wish America's version of "freedom and democracy" to my worst

enemy! Iraq is an example of what America really represents, a brutal military power like ancient Rome, with no regards for human dignity and life.

[Jacobin]

43. But send peacekeeping forces to protect our asses

What other country in the entire world supports Israel besides the US?

[cali]

48. It depend on

what you mean by support. If you mean it in the context of their attack on Lebanon, precious few. If you mean it in a larger sense, most European nations do.

[Anakin Skywalker]

45. They Are Not "Preaching".

They are criticizing you, idiot!

[Charlie Brown]

50. Olmert is another asshat with a military arsenal at his disposal

and if I recall, NATO was defending the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo from the aggression of Serbia. "none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket." Uh, I'm pretty sure there was a violent civil war going on at the time.

He can go to hell. I'm going to continue critizing governments that brutalize civilians, and, right now, that includes Israel.

Saying that the Israeli government is immune from criticism is a hell of a lot of arrogance.