Eight dead in rocket attack on Israel

[maddezmom]

Hezbollah fired an enormous barrage of rockets at towns across northern Israel today, killing at least eight people and wounding 20 others, rescue services said.

One of the rockets hit a building in the northern town of Kfar Giladi, causing many injuries, rescue officials said. Army Radio said a synagogue was also hit and there were fatalities in the barrage.

“There are several wounded, many of them in very serious condition,” Eli Bean, director of the Magen David Adom rescue service, told Israel’s Channel Two.

Witnesses reported the barrage was going on more than 15 minutes after it had begun. One rescue service reported at least two rockets directly hit homes.

more:http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=191273050&p=y9yz73756

CNNI reporting 10 killed

[rzemanfl]

1. Where are all these rockets coming from? Hezbollah must have

had an arsenal of them stored all over Lebanon. Where they planning a surprise attack?

[w4rma]

2. I think what is going on right now is what they were planning for. (nt)

[IndianaGreen]

13. Hezbollah is as tough as the Vietcong

and this means that either the war ends now with a ceasefire, or Israel is doomed to a quagmire.

[Pavulon]

20. After Israel kills a million VC and Regulars (hezbolla)?

That is probably the point. I don't think they are there to take lebanon, just to see the sights, blow them up, and kill anyone who shoots at them.

That is Vietnam's casualty number from our war there.

[daleo]

43. I don't think Israel could stand 60,000 dead on its own side

The way the U.S. military did. Plus, Israel is suffering civilian casualties, which was never the case for the U.S.

[TheWraith]

34. It appears that they were intended as a deterrant

The idea being to decentralize their forces so that they could provide a sustained barrage against Israel, and by that capability provide the Israelis with a disincentive to crossing the Lebanese border again. We can all see how well that worked out.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie26]

44. Do they know

what kind of rocket this was? This seems a lot more powerful than the Katuysha rockets Hizbollah has been firing previously. If anything, it seems like they're actually getting stronger since the conflict began.

[Zhade]

48. Juan Cole pointed out that Hezbollah has a few Silkworms.

But I, being uninterested in how to kill people, can't tell you what Silkworms are capable of, not having researched them.

[Nevernose]

52. "They" -- the media -- said it was a lucky shot

Which happened to land in the middle of a group of soldiers.

The rockets Hezbollah aren't precise in any sense of the word -- you just point them towards a town and shoot, and hope you kill as many people as possible. Men, women, children, soldiers, civilians, you just kill whoever you can at random.

[Spazito]

55. Well, it strikes me as interesting that Hezbollah seems to have

more "lucky shots" in terms of hitting soldiers over civilians than the Israelis have, I wonder why that would be given the "pinpoint precision" that has been touted for the weapons of Israel.

[Nevernose]

56. That's not an entirely accurate statement

Most of Israel's civilians have evacuated to somewhere else. My guess is that Lebanon doesn't have the ability to evacuate all the civilians. Some of that would be due to Israel's unjustifiable attacks on infrastructure, some would be due to an innefectual government, and some would be based on Israel's preparation based on experience.

Most of the rockets, while still terrifying, haven't killed anybody at all. "Random" includes unpopulated/evacuated areas. ALso, most of the IDF casualties have been taken by direct fire, snipers or IEDs inside Lebanon.

Another reason is that Hezbollah locates their firing positions inside civilian areas. Hezbollah has stated that they're trying to kill as many Israeli Jews as possible, regardless of military status; Israel states that they're trying to kill as many Hezbollah "terrorists" as they can.

I suspect that the truth lay somewhere between our respective positions.

[Spazito]

57. Interesting....

"Another reason is that Hezbollah locates their firing positions inside civilian areas. Hezbollah has stated that they're trying to kill as many Israeli Jews as possible, regardless of military status; Israel states that they're trying to kill as many Hezbollah "terrorists" as they can."

Your wording is .....interesting.....to say the least. One question, why did you put the word "terrorists" in quotation marks? Was it to denote that at least one Israeli government official has implicitly said all Lebanese civilians that have not fled are suspect "terrorists" or was there another reason?

I suspect the truth will out, whether it be my "truth" or your "truth" or, indeed, something in between.

An immedate cease-fire is what is needed, imo, regardless of whose truth will out in the end.

[Nevernose]

58. I put "terrorists" in quotes because I doubt that babies can be terrorists

But if the enemy, on either side, puts their military positions on top of hospitals or apartment buildings or in downtown urban centers? I don't condone the killing of innocents, but I just don't know what Israel's supposed to do in this situation?

What do you do when both sides to an argument are right, and both are wrong? Isn't that the definition of tragedy?

In my opinion, the French, Turkish, and Egyptians should be occupying not only Southern Lebanon until they can control all of their country, but Jerusalem as well. It's time the grown-ups were in charge of things.

[Spazito]

59. I have no disagreement with anything in this post...

It is, indeed, "time the grown-ups were in charge of things". Well past time.

[Eugene]

3. WaPo: Hezbollah Rockets Kill 10 Israelis Near Border

Hezbollah Rockets Kill 10 Israelis Near Border

By Jonathan Finer and Molly Moore
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, August 6, 2006; 7:02 AM

KFAR GILADI, Israel, Aug. 6 -- Ten Israelis were killed Sunday afternoon when a barrage
of Katusha rockets landed in a parking lot where people had gathered near the community
of Kfar Giladi, near Israel's northernmost tip, according to police officials and
witnesses at the scenes.

Local kibbutz officials said the dead appeared to be soldiers.

It was the largest number of Israelis killed in a single incident since the war between
Israel and Hezbollah fighters in southern Lebanon began nearly four weeks ago.

Witnesses said rockets rained on the community for nearly 15 minutes.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/06/AR2006080600149.html

Also: Hezbollah Rockets Kill 10 in Israel - AP

[tocqueville]

4. IN REALITY THOSE "PEOPLE" WERE SOLDIERS

An Israeli soldier gestures next to covered bodies of reserve soldiers, killed by a Hezbollah rocket attack, near the entrance to the communal farm of Kfar Giladi in northern Israel Sunday Aug. 6, 2006. Ten people, nine of them reserve soldiers were killed in the attack. Hezbollah guerrillas pounded towns across northern Israel with an enormous barrage of rockets on Sunday afternoon (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karmakaze]

9. The press is normally not allowed to publish that, which is why...

very few of the stories noted they were in fact soldiers.

Here is a video talking about Israeli press censorship, and an article from Jonathon Cook who lives in Nazareth:

http://c2ore.com/archives/?itemid=1794
http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08032006.html

[tocqueville]

11. picture of a wounded "civilian"

An injured man, believed to be a reservist soldier, is rushed into the Rambam hospital in the northern coastal city of Haifa, after a rocket slammed in Kfar Giladi killing ten. Ten people were killed in the deadliest rocket attack on Israel since it launched its war on Hezbollah 26 days ago, with no sign of a let-up in violence despite UN efforts to broker a ceasefire.(AFP/Roni Schutzer)

green fatigues are very fashionable nowadays....

[JerseygirlCT]

16. So? Are we not to care that they've been killed?

What's this place coming to?

[Posteritatis]

31. Why the scare quotes? Soldiers aren't people now? (n/t)

[Zhade]

49. Here's a quandary - aren't all able-bodied Israeli adults reservists?

I absolutely condemn the Israeli government's war crimes, but in a country (unlike ours) in which you are forced to serve in the military, where's the line between "soldier actively engaging in war crimes" and "civilian who may be called up to aid in war crimes"?

If an IDF member is killed, but they oppose their government's actions in Lebanon, do they deserve condemnation to the degree their government certainly does?

I'm just asking, as this is something that just came to me.

[Nevernose]

53. Since 90% of the Israeli civilians left, who's left to die?

Since 90% of the Israeli civilians left, who's left within Hezbollah range to die?

[allemand]

5. Ten Israeli soldiers killed by Hizbollah rocket (Reuters)

By Alaa Shahine

BEIRUT (Reuters) - A Hizbollah rocket killed 10 Israeli soldiers and Israeli bombs killed 10 Lebanese civilians on Sunday as the U.N. Security Council considered a U.S.-French draft resolution to end the 26-day-old conflict.

The soldiers were killed and at least nine were wounded when a rocket struck a group of reservists in the northern village of Kfar Giladi in the deadliest Hizbollah rocket strike of the war.

The Israeli army confirmed reserve soldiers called up for duty had been killed, but did not say how many. Medics and Israeli media put the death toll at 10.

Medics said four of the wounded were in critical condition. Villagers wept as they looked at the bodies, some covered in blankets, after the attack near Kfar Giladi's cemetery.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/8/6/worldupdates/2006-08-06T170426Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-262552-6&sec=Worldupdates

[jpkenny]

8. Shame on Hizbollah for targeting soldiers. What are they thinking?

[GuillermoX71]

14. Actually,

they admittedly have every Jew in their targets.

[Minstrel Boy]

37. I would like a link for that someday n/t

[Poll_Blind]

24. Exactly! You gotta wonder about the Israeli doublespeak on this...

Who does it fool?

PB

[Marie26]

45. I really doubt

that they can target the rockets that well to hit one specific group of soldiers. It seems more like they aim for the border & shoot.

[rodeodance]

6. Hezbollah rockets kill 10 in Israel

http://news.yahoo.com/

Hezbollah rockets kill 10 in Israel

An Israeli military rescue officer waklks by a wall with blood on it at the scene of a rocket attack at the entrance the communal farm of Kfar Giladi in northern Israel Sunday Aug. 6, 2006. Ten people, nine of them reserve soldiers were killed in the attack. Hezbollah guerrillas pounded towns across northern Israel with an enormous barrage of rockets on Sunday afternoon.(AP Photo/Tsafrir Abayov)
Enlarge Photo
AP
AP - 33 minutes ago

KFAR GILADI, Israel - Hezbollah guerrillas fired a barrage of rockets across northern Israel Sunday, killing 10 people at a communal farm and wounding eight in the worst attack on Israel since fighting erupted July 12.

[rodeodance]

10. These were 10 Reserve Israel soldiers.

[IndianaGreen]

12. They are more like our National Guard than US Army reserves

The Israeli press is reporting that the reservists are complaining about lack of equipment and training. Sounds familiar?

We need an immediate ceasefire! This war has to be stopped!

[IndianaGreen]

15. According to witnesses, the soldiers ignored the warning

At least 10 dead, 13 hurt, in massive Hezbollah rocket barrage across north

By Amiram Barkat, Amos Harel and Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondents and Haaretz Service

At least ten people were killed Sunday afternoon and 13 wounded, four of them seriously, in a direct hit on an open area in the northern community of Kfar Giladi, as Hezbollah renewed its rocket fire against Israel with what was described as an enormous barrage.

The condition of two of the victims suffering from serious wounds deteriorated after arriving at the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa.

<snip>

A resident of Kfar Giladi who is on the community's security committee said that the victims did not adhere to warnings sounded ahead of the attack.

"This shouldn't have happened," he said. "We sounded the alert several minutes before the rocket hits."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746936.html

[mogster]

17. Pictures

The ten killed belongs to the army reserves, according to AP (via Aftenposten).
In addition, 14 are wounded, four of them seriously.

The rocket hit the entrance of a farm, and also a synagogue, according to witnesses.
Pics from here (NO):
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/midtosten/article1411808.ece

[Trajan]

18. A few salient points ...

1) MANY MANY citizens are reserve soldiers in Israel .... Civic participation in the military is very high ... So 'targetting soldiers' invariably involves 'targetting civilians' .... the argument holds true for every party in war ....

2) If we despise war and hateful killing, then we despise it from all parties involved: jew and arabs alike ....

Hezbollah should STOP shooting missiles into Israel, and seek peace ...

Israel should STOP their invasion of Lebanon, tuen around and leave, and seek peace ....

Israeli attacks in Lebanon should enrage the world, and so should rocket attacks on israeli towns by Hezbollah ....

Morality is universal ....

[mogster]

19. Soldiers are also people

I see no difference. Why else do we keep count of US soldiers dead or maimed in Iraq?
They're trapped in their government's politics.

Now, do we extend the same grace to terrorists?

[Spazito]

21. I just heard Matthew Chance's report on CNN and he said...

due to censorship of the media by Israel, he was NOT ALLOWED to say whether the people killed and wounded were soldiers or civilians but he made it very clear the area was where soldiers were in preparation for entry into Lebanon.

Israel is censoring who is dying, trying to hide that it is soldiers NOT civilians being hit.

[davidinalameda]

22. what does it matter if it's soldiers or civilians

Hezbollah launched those rockets into Israel attempting to do as much damage as possible with them

[Spazito]

25. So, from your post, I can expect you have sympathy for any

Hezbollah soldiers killed as well? Or is it just Israeli soldiers killed and wounded that should receive sympathy and outraged expressed at Hezbollah for their deaths and their wounding?

[davidinalameda]

26. I don't have sympathy for Hezbollah soldiers being killed

they're terrorists; the Israelis soldiers are attempting to protect their country against these murderers

if Hezbollah weren't shooting rockets into Israel, which I'm sure that anyone would consider a breech of international law in itself, then the Israelis wouldn't be in Lebanon right now

think about it; if you had a group launching rockets from Canada into the US, and the Canadians couldn't or wouldn't do anything about it, wouldn't you want the government to do something about it?



Hezbollah is nothing more than a bunch of murderers who want nothing more than the total destruction of Israel

[Spazito]

27. Ahhh, your position is very clear, thanks for responding

I remember bush saying something like "you are for us or for the terra-ists". Gosh, I can't think why I am reminded of this at this time.

If the US bombed the shit out of us for that instead of negotiating with the government, Canadians would NOT sit back and take it. Your analogy is false as I am sure you already know.

Israel is bombing the shit out of Lebanon and is doing it because that is what they WANT to do, their "reasons" for doing so have changed so often it is hard to keep up with them.

[davidinalameda]

35. but the Lebanese government has proved to be very ineffective

or else why would they allow these terrorists to do what they're doing

I can't imagine why anyone would support a group of murderers like the Hezbollah

[Spazito]

38. Hmmm, who is supporting Hezbollah? I haven't, that's for sure

I suspect more of the Lebanese population is, thanks to Israel's actions in the last weeks. I can't imagine why you would connect "I can't imagine why anyone would support a group of murderers like the Hezbollah" to my post given I certainly don't express any support for them in the post you are responding to which you have responded.

I am sure you weren't intimating otherwise, were you?

[praeclarus]

28. if it doesn't matter....

... whether they are civilians or soldiers, why should the
media be prohibited from stating what they are?

The answer is that, by and large, people expect soldiers to
be killed in wars. They don't expect women and children to
be targetted and killed.

In these Orwellian times, however, it is all about Big Brother
telling you what to think. And what we are supposed to think
in this particular situation is that side X is evil and side
Y is good.

Side X or Y sounds slightly less evil if they are simply
fighting the war and shooting at soldiers. Makes much better...
oh, let's say propaganda .... if it is People that are killed
vs Soldiers that are killed.

Apparently this works.

[davidinalameda]

36. I don't have an answer for you

but obviously the "secret" has gotten out so it doesn't matter

[chimpymustgo]

33. It seems to matter to the Israeli govt: they're CENSORING the information

Ask them why. As for me....yeah, it's a difference between some little kids getting killed and warriors for the aggressors getting killed. Big difference.

[IndianaGreen]

41. By saying they were civilians, the IDF propagandists want to elicit

sympathy by making the gullible public think that Hezbollah is targeting civilians. The reality is that Hezbollah has targeted Israel's military far more often than Israel has targeted Hezbollah.

This is a war of sheer folly. We need an immediate cessation of hostilities!

[MysteryToMyself]

50. It is war if you kill soldiers

It is terrorism if you kill civilians.

[acmavm]

23. Israel is calling up reserve soldiers to kill Lebanese civilians and then

they try to garner sympathy when the soldiers are killed by hiding the fact that they ARE soldiers.

More dishonesty from Israel. But then again, I don't expect anything else.

[Nevernose]

54. And that's what I genuinely don't understand: the motivations

Hezbollah's leadership has stated many times that their aim is the genocide of Jews (the chants of "death to Jews" in the streets are a pretty good indication of that), and failing genocide, they want the destruction of Israel. This would give them a motive. Since Israel gave back the Golan Heights, the issue can't be land (while Syria and Hezbollah dispute the Farms, the UN, Israel, and even Lebanon do not). So other than the aforementioned reasons, I honestly don't get Hezbollah's motives.

What I'm not seeing is Israel's motive in this. What's their motive for bombing the hell out of Lebanon? Some would argue that it's self-defense, which would be a legitimate motive. But if their motive ISN'T self-defense, what is it?

Like you, I don't expect much honesty from the IDF. Then again, I don't expect much honesty from Hezbollah. I DO expect everyone involved to spin events to their own advantage.

[newyorican]

29. Soldiers getting killed in war?!?

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you...

For a "terrorist group" that "targets only civilians", they sure are hitting a lot of Israeli military personel.

I bet that stats for this piece of "dumb luck" would break the forum formatting.

[muryan]

39. well since they are jewish

they deserved it right? I mean they are part of the zionist neo-con far right bush cabal 9/11 consipracy arab hating movement and they definitely arent trying to defend their country at all. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[newyorican]

62. Soldiers accept the risk of getting killed...

..when they sign up.

The rest of your post is rife with issues I didn't bring to the discussion.

[unda cova brutha]

30. more blood on *'s hands

when will we finally get ride of him?

[brentspeak]

40. Er, what does Bush have to do with this?

He's guilty of a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

[IndianaGreen]

42. Bush had Bolton veto ceasefire resolutions for 3 whole weeks

and he now is stalling for time by proposing a resolution that is unacceptable to Lebanon, a resolution that would allow Israel to continue the war under the guise of "self-defense."

Bush has also refused to talk directly to the main players in the region outside of Israel, Syria and Iran. It is idiotic to have Condi go to ME to talk peace when the only people she talks to are the Israelis.

Furthermore, former President Carter laid the blame squarely on Bush for his nearly 6 years of neglect of the Middle East.

[MysteryToMyself]

51. They are trying to do it all militarily

There needs to be negotiations. Negotiations would have prevented this, but Bushites don't like negotiations.

Condi would rather shop for shoes. She is giving Israel time to kill all the Hezbellah so she will only have to make one trip back to the Mid East. She thinks that will be a sustained peace.

[Clarkie1]

32. CNN now reporting 12 dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/06/mideast.main/index.html

[daleo]

46. I imagine that the IDF wouldn't want Hezbollah to know they hit soldiers

That could have a valid tactical reason, as in not wanting to let the other side know that their targetting was accurate, and that they had caused significant casualties to the IDF.

However, the propaganda element is also there. I am sure Israel would prefer that the world think Hezbollah had killed non-combatants, rather than valid IDF targets (valid in the accepted military sense).

I suspect Hezbollah just got lucky, though, as far at these being mostly military personnel. I haven't heard anything about their rockets being very accurate before this. They could just as easily have been civilians.

[Zhade]

47. End the killing of innocents on both sides! Cease-fire NOW!

NT!

[IndianaGreen]

60. The IDF dead were NCOs, the heart of the military

These are not soldiers that can easily be replaced.

The names of the soldiers killed in Kfar Giladi had been withheld pending notification of next of kin:

-- Captain Eliyahu Elkarif, 34, from Granot.

-- Sergeant Major Marian Berkovich, 31, from Ashdod.

-- Senior Sergeant Major Yosef Karakash, 41, from Afula.

-- First Sergeant Major Shlomo Buchris, 36, from Sde Yitzhak.

-- Staff Sergeant Yehuda Greenfeld, 27, from Jerusalem.

-- Advanced Sergeant Major Shmuel Halfon, 41, from Bat Yam.

-- First Sergeant Major Daniel Ben-David, 37, from Ahituv.

-- Sergeant Major Ziv Balali, 28, from Kfar Sava.

-- Sergeant Major Roi Ya'ish, 27, from Herzliya.

-- Staff Sergeant Shaul Shai Miklovich, 21, from Natanya.

Authorities have yet to release the names of two of the soldiers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/747301.html