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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:42 PM
Original message
Editor&Publisher: Reporters Shut Out Of Cuba At Key Moment
Reporters Shut Out Of Cuba At Key Moment
By E&P Staff
Published: August 03, 2006

CHICAGO At a momentous moment in Cuban history -- with long-time strongman Fidel Castro in a sickbed and transferring his power to his brother -- foreign journalists are being shut out of the Communist island.

Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa reported Thursday that more than 150 foreign journalists trying to enter Cuba with tourist visas have been turned away at the Havana airport since the government announced Castro had internal bleeding and faced "complicated surgery."

Journalists need a work visa to work legally in Cuba, and a spokesman of the government-controlled International Press Center told dpa there would be no exceptions....

***

The New York City-based Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) urged Cuba to let foreign journalists into the country.

"We call on Cuban authorities to let journalists do their work without harassment or obstruction," Americas program coordinator Carlos Lauria said in a statement. "It is critical that foreign journalists be allowed into Cuba to report the news on the handover of power by Castro, a story of global importance. We are also troubled by reports that Cuba is denying requests for journalists' visas."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002950362
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cuba knows the Western media is owned by corporate interests
It saw how the Western media has tried to influence the election in Mexico by calling the race final when Mexican law said it is not. It does not want Western media to do to Cuba what it did to Mexico.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. As opposed to the Cuban media.
Which is owned outright by the government.
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jpkenny Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
72. Doesn't Cuba have a right to self-defense? They use the media instead
of guns.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. But if the White House shunned the same media
You would be screaming censorship.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. The White House has beaten the media into submission.
Were you awake during the breaking in period, when Ari Fleisher threatened everyone in the White House corps?

That was just to lay down the rules for the ones who might get the bright idea to write something truthful, rather than accepting the stories they give them.

The stories which are written now always support the official line on Cuba. Who wouldn't know that?
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Another report...
Journalists denied entry at Havana airport

    Since Fidel Castro ceded power to his brother Raúl on Monday night, foreign journalists have been trying to get into Cuba to report on the unprecedented move.

    But Cuban airport officials have barred at least 11 reporters from entering the country this week and ordered several others who managed to slip in to leave within 24 hours.

    ....

    Journalists in Cuba said media outlets with offices in Havana had managed to slip in several extra reporters from abroad, without proper visas, to help out. But when they went to register with the media center they were ordered to leave.

    Officials at the media center told journalists that while they understand the foreign media's interest in the story, all journalists must carry the appropriate visas.

    Miami Herald


11 or 150? Quite a spread?

Apparantly accredited journalists must present their credentials in most countries -- except Cuba, which E & P seems to think should and the 'context' should be ignored.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. They don't get any mileage by yammering about this requirement
in other countries, so most people won't ever know about it, apparently.

Didn't Bush's dad's company, Carlyle just add E & P to its publishing acquisitions in the last few weeks?
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I've noticed no change in E&P since the acquisition, thank goodness...
and I check it every day. CPJ is also calling on Cuba to let journalists in.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thank you...
The thing about this is that it IS in the best interests of the journalists to register, because in those 'type' of countries where there are restrictions, if you DON'T identify yourself as a journalist and just a tourist, then you run the risk of being 'vetted' by your own intelligence services and you can't use the 'press freedom' argument. Never mind the part of being accused as a spy by the other guys. (Imagine spies posing as journalists -- perish the thought ;-)

Our side wants to know who you talked to and what was discussed just as badly as them - it's all part of intelligence. In the old commie days, travellers were frequently questioned on their return and this was openly declared in the visa requirements needed to travel to 'commie' countries.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Isn't the Miami Herald's motto
"We'll print anything"?
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
88. The Miami Herald was the first American newspaper to show how
the computer voting machines can be hacked. I read it everyday and it's better than most papers in this country.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. You're reading the version of the paper which evolved AFTER
the Cuban "exile" monster, Jorge Mas Canosa succeeded in scaring off the publisher, David Lawrence.
TRYING TO SET
THE AGENDA IN MIAMI

Bashing the Herald is only part of Jose Mas Canosa's strategy

by Anne-Marie O'Connor
O'Connor, who is based in Miami, is Latin America and Caribbean correspondent for Cox Newspapers.
The Miami Herald usually takes and assumes the same positions as the Cuban government. But we must confess that they were once more discreet about it. Lately the distance between The Miami Herald and Fidel Castro has narrowed considerably. . . . Why must we consent to The Miami Herald and ElNuevo Herald continuing a destructive campaign full of hatred for the Cuban xile, when ultimately they live and eat, economically speaking, on our support?

Jorge Mas Canosa, chairman of the Miami-based Cuban American National Foundation, in a local radio broadcast, aired on January 21 and printed in full in El Diario las Americas.

The revelation that The Miami Herald and its Spanish-language counterpart, El Nuevo Herald, were in bed with Cuban leader Fidel Castro must have confounded the editors of the Cuban Communist party organ, Granma, since the Havana daily has repeatedly portrayed them as right-wing tools of the eternal CIA campaign against the thirty-three-year-old revolution.

Anywhere else, Mas Canosa's remarks might have been ignored. In the darker recesses of Miami's exile community, however, his words were clearly a call to arms. Within days Herald publisher David Lawrence, Jr., and two top editors received death threats. Anonymous callers phoned in bomb threats and Herald vending machines were jammed with gum and smeared with feces. Mas Canosa's Cuban American National Foundation quickly denied responsibility and condemned the hijinks, but Mas's words were highly inflammatory in a city where public red-baiting has served as a prelude to bombings and, in past years, murder.

That was in January, but editors at the Herald still feel besieged. Foundations ads saying "I don't believe The Herald" in Spanish are appearing on Dade County buses. Lawrence has heard that foundation people are sounding out advertisers over whether they would support a boycott -- a troubling prospect in a recession.

Coverage of the foundation and Cuba is now carefully scrutinized, Herald reports say. "There has been a watershed in how we operate with Cuban questions," says one staffer, who requested anonymity. "Before the campaign, Cuba issues were dealt with in a routine way."
(snip/...)
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:UQiB716-0NkJ:archives.cjr.org/year/92/3/miami.asp+Miami+Herald+%2B+feces&hl=en
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. They are entering Cuba under false pretenses
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 04:52 PM by Mika
I guess that filing a false itinerary is OK also.

From the Miami herald link..
On Wednesday, five journalists, including a Miami Herald reporter, were stopped at José Martí International Airport outside Havana when they arrived on a COPA airlines flight from Panama hoping to gain entry as tourists.


When entering most any country, one must declare IF one is working (as an agent of a business) or one is entering as a tourist - business or pleasure.

The aforementioned "journalists" are trying to enter Cuba illegally.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You're ALWAYS supposed to indicate your profession.
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 05:16 PM by Judi Lynn
What possible reason could they have for lying?

That happened before when a couple of Czech. "journalists" tried to creep into the country once before, lying about their professions, too, and got shown out. They tried to make an international incident from it.

What's wrong with those guys? I wouldn't dream of trying it. Would you? It's stupid.

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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. One would have to assume they are resorting to lying because they
weren't going to be allowed in as journalists. Otherwise, this doesn't make much sense.
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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. They half to lie to get in........
so they can get to the truth without being followed by Castro's goons.

Cuban Communists don't like Czech reporters because their former leader Vaclav Havel is very Anti-Castro. Havel was one of Czechoslovakia biggest dissident's against Communist rule during the cold war and Czech themselves are very intimately familiar with the brutality of Communist rule. You can't tell a Czech they don't know a thing about Communism because many of them are well educated in Marxist theory. They are very familiar with Marx's work, Lenin, etc because were forced to study it. They haven't bought into these delusional faery tales about the greatness of Marxism like many Americans have. They understand the desperate reality and loss of opportunity it brings about, hence, Castro doesn't like Czech reporters.


http://www.clovekvtisni.cz/download/pdf/39.pdf

The Discreet Terror of Fidel Castro

By Vaclav Havel and others

Monday, May 22, 2006,Page 9


"This spring marks the third anniversary of the wave of repression in which Fidel Castro’s regime arrested and handed down long sentences to 75 leading Cuban dissidents. Soon afterward, many friends and I formed the International Committee for Democracy in Cuba.

The bravery of those who found their social conscience, overcame fear and stood up to communist dictatorship remains fresh in my memory. It reminds me of the jingle of keys that rang out on Prague’s Wenceslas Square—and later around the rest of what was then Czechoslovakia—in the autumn of 1989.

This is why I rang keys during the conference calling for democracy in Cuba that our committee held in Prague three years ago. I wanted to draw the international community’s attention to the human-rights situation in Cuba, to support that country’s opposition and to encourage pro-democracy forces. The EU then introduced diplomatic sanctions, albeit mostly symbolic, against Castro’s regime.

Soon after, however, a contrary position came to the fore. The EU opened a dialogue with the Cuban regime, sanctions were conditionally suspended, and it was even made clear to dissidents that they were not welcome at the embassies of several democratic countries. Cowardly compromise and political alibis—as so often in history—defeated a principled position. In return, the Cuban regime made a sham gesture by releasing a small number of the prisoners of conscience—mostly those who were tortured and seriously ill—who the regime most feared would die in its notorious prisons.

Those of us who live in Europe’s new post-communist democracies experienced similar political deals when we lived behind the former Iron Curtain. We are also extremely familiar with the argument that European policies have not led to any mass arrests in Cuba. But democracy has shown weakness and the Cuban regime has in turn adapted its tactics.

Respected organizations like Reporters without Borders and Amnesty International have collected ample evidence of violence and intimidation against freethinking Cubans, who can expect a different kind of ring than that from jangling keys. Their cases often do not end in courts but in hospitals. Groups of “fighters for the revolution”—in reality, the Cuban secret police—brutally attack their political opponents and accuse them of absurd crimes in an effort to intimidate them or to force them to emigrate. On the island, such planned harassments are called actos de repudio—“acts of rejection.”

Political violence that creates the impression of mere street crime is never easy to prove, unlike jail terms of several years, and therefore it does not receive due attention from the world. However, thousands of former political prisoners in central and eastern Europe can attest to the fact that a kick from a secret policeman on the street hurts just as much as a kick from a warden behind prison gates.

The powerlessness of the victim of state-organized street fights and threats against his family is experienced in the same way as the powerlessness of somebody harassed during a state security investigation. Many European politicians who have sought to see the situation on the ground have been barred in recent years.

Some Europeans apparently regard Cuba as a faraway country whose fate they need take no interest in, because they have problems of their own. But what Cubans are enduring today is part of our own European history. Who better than Europeans, who brought communism to life, exported it to the world and then paid dearly for it over many decades, know better about the torments inflicted upon the Cuban people?

Humanity will pay the price for communism until such a time as we learn to stand up to it with all political responsibility and decisiveness. We have many opportunities to do so in Europe and Cuba. And it is no surprise that the new member countries of the EU have brought to Europe fresh historical experience, and with it far less understanding for and tolerance of concession and compromise.

Representatives of the EU’s member states will meet in Brussels in the middle of next month to review a common policy toward Cuba. European diplomats should weigh up the consequences of accommodating Castro’s regime. They should show that they will neither ignore his practices nor neglect the suffering of Cuban prisoners of conscience. We must never forget the seemingly anonymous victims of Castro’s “acts of rejection.”

Vaclav Havel, is a former president of the Czech Republic and a founder of the International Committee for Democracy in Cuba. Madeleine Albright is a former US secretary of state, Andri Glucksmann is a French philosopher, Arpad Goncz is a former president of Hungary, Vytautas Landsbergis is a former president of Lithuania and Adam Michnik, a former Polish dissident, is editor-in-chief of Gazeta Wyborcza. "
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Thank you for posting that Vaclev Havel piece! nt
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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. No problem,
a little reality check couldn't hurt some of the other participants in this thread.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. I guess that Vaclav Havel should be supporting Al Queda cells in the US..
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 02:16 PM by Mika
.. after all, they have the same MO and purpose.

They (the paid Al Queda cells and the US paid "dissidents") are aiding and abetting the declared enemy of the government and seek the overthrow said government with the financial assistance of the declared enemy. When busted the Cuban government puts them on trial, with legal representation, with evidence against them, before jailing them IF finding them guilty of crimes (but in the case of the US, the government sends those busted suspects off to be tortured -or "rendered"- in Gitmo or some other torture dungeons in foreign lands notorious for boiling limbs and other horrendous methods of torture).

Havel NEVER acknowledges that the 75 "dissidents" busted in Cuba were on the payroll of the declared enemy state of Cuba (the US gov) that seeks to overthrow the system of government of Cuba, and pours millions of dollars into the effort to do so. Such efforts are illegal in Cuba - as they are in most all nations.

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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. There is a big difference between terrorists......
...... that want to create mass chaos and destruction by taregting civilians and dissidents who advocate a multi party liberal democracy as a replacement for a one party totalitarian regime (Castro's Cuba). Nowhere near the same MO and purpose. The comparison you made between Al qaeda and Cuba's dissidents is truly grasping at straws.


Havel may not have mentioned anything about US funding because:

1. The charges may be (and probably are) bogus. After all how can you trust a government who denies it's citizens the most basic human rights.


2. Even if they are funded by the U.S., Czechs dont see U.S. help as a bad thing, since during the Cold War many Czech opposition groups and individuals sought U.S. and western assistance.

Back to the bogus charges:

According to Amnesty International


http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250352003?open&of=ENG-CUB

"In mid-March 2003 Cuban authorities carried out an unprecedented clampdown on the dissident movement on the island. Over the space of a few days, security forces rounded up over 75 dissidents in targeted sweeps. With the exception of half a dozen well-known figures critical of the regime, most mid-level leaders of the dissident movement were detained. They were subjected to hasty and unfair trials, and, just weeks after their arrest, were given long prison terms of up to 28 years. Cuban authorities tried some of them under harsh, previously unused legislation. In spite of official claims that those arrested were "foreign agents" whose activities endangered Cuban independence and security, and having reviewed the trial verdicts and other documents of 71 of the 75 dissidents sentenced, Amnesty International believes that they are prisoners of conscience, imprisoned solely for the peaceful exercise of fundamental freedoms.

In early April 2003, the Cuban government ended a three-year de facto moratorium on executions, killing by firing squad three men who had been involved in a hijacking. They had been subjected to a summary trial and appeals process, and were executed less than a week after their trial began. Amnesty International's 3 June report, Cuba: "Essential measures"? Human rights crackdown in the name of security (AI Index: AMR 25/017/2003), provides information on the case of the executed men as well as on the background, legal framework and prosecution of the 75 newly-recognised prisoners of conscience.

The Cuban authorities have continued to claim that these measures were necessary to defend the country against threats posed to its national security by the United States. Based on its review of the available information, including the trial documents mentioned above, Amnesty International maintains that the activities for which the dissidents were prosecuted were not criminal in nature and did not jeopardise national security, falling rather within the parameters of the legitimate exercise of fundamental freedoms as guaranteed under international standards. At the same time that it deplores this escalation in grave violations by Cuban authorities, Amnesty International recognises the negative effect of the US embargo on the enjoyment of the full range of human rights in Cuba, and recommends in the June document that the US government revise its policy with a view to ending the harmful practice. However, neither the US embargo nor any other aspect of US foreign or economic policy can be used to justify grave violations of fundamental rights by the Cuban authorities.

Since the publication of the June report, Amnesty International has continued to follow events in Cuba closely. An update of the main concerns follows."








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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Aiding and abetting terrorists is aiding and abetting terrorists
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 04:08 PM by Mika
Our Cuban exile terrorists are freedom fighters. Right?

Funny how AI and Havel make little or no mention of any of this (the targeting of civillians, government officials, public infrastructure, and other such terrorist activities).



http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/americas/071298cuba-plot.html

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2001-07-05/metro.html

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9903/08/cuba.bombing/index.html

http://www.ain.cubaweb.cu/english/escalaing/terroring1.htm

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/142.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/jan98/cuba.html

http://www.afrocubaweb.com/posada.htm

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/TheirTerroristsorOurs.html

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchive/947cuba.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/americas/index-posada.html

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/biowarfarecrops4,2,00.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/landau02042003.html


Plenty more here..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=CANF+%2B+terrorism&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Alpha+66+%2B+terrorism&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Bacardi+%2B+terrorism&btnG=Search


The government of Cuba has a duty to protect its citizens and form of government from terrorist organizations seeking to overthrow the government.

Those who aid and abet or are in the employ of private terrorist organizations or state run terrorist organizations are breaking the law in Cuba.

--

Some of Cuba's political parties..

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html
* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}


--

http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm
This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.


--

You can read a detailed look of the Cuban system here,

Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-98 Elections
Arnold August
1999
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books
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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Convenient, how you make no mention of the abuses of the Castro regime
There are a few cuban exiles who went overboard, but it is a miniscule minority compared to the total number of 1 million in South Florida. Those 75 dissidents, were not terrorists, the simply spoke out against the Castro regime.

Do you want a list of the number of people Castro has killed?

Or imprisoned?

Or how many acts of terror Cuban Communists have committed?

You are going to have to wait a while, because it's going to take some time to compile. When someone finally does put it together it's going to be 10,000 pages long.

As for Cuba's political process, who are you trying to kid? You know it's a farce:

Your own article quotes

"Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible"

What country in the world has that high voter turnout?

Here are some articles which will give you some insight into Cuba's phony political process:

BBC - January 13, 1998
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/46399.stm

"The Cuban government is reporting a 98 turnout for the the country's elections - even athough there was no choice of candidates.
The President of the National Electoral Commission Manuel de Jesus Pirez told a news conference that 7.93 million people voted on Sunday out of a total of 8.06 million eligible voters. Some 5.01% of the votes were not valid because they were blank or annulled.
All 601 candidates proposed for the national assembly were elected unopposed.
Electors were also asked to endorse a list of 1,192 candidates for provincial assemblies. Again no alternative to the ruling Communist Party was on offer.
The massive voter turnout follows a pattern of very high participation in Cuba's single party elections. Voting is not mandatory in Cuba, but it is presented by authorities as a moral and patriotic duty.

One person, one vote, one candidate

There are no known opponents of Castro or the government among the newly-elected candidates, who were proposed by special candidacy commissions formed by members of pro-government organisations representing farmers, students and other social groups.
Despite the lack of choice, the Cuban government mounted a huge campaign urging people to vote.
With the Pope's visit only days away, Havana is already filled with US media, so the election was marketed as a means of demonstrating unity against the United States and its economic blockade of Cuba.
Cuban media reflected the view of President Castro that Cuban democracy is the most perfect in the world and a system other countries should emulate.
Reports often contrasted Cuban elections with the United States. Cuban television is even showing the US feature film "Candidates", starring Robert Redford, which depicts corruption in the US electoral system.

There has been considerable coverage of the financial crisis in the Far East, with predictions that capitalism has no future.
After casting his own vote President Castro hailed the high turnout. He said his country was not changing but was reaffirming its socialist identity in a predominantly capitalist world.
"It's the world that's changing, not Cuba," the 71-year-old Cuban leader told reporters.
A BBC correspondent in Havana said that despite the turnout, President Fidel Castro is coming under increasing pressure from other Latin American leaders to allow greater pluralism."

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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Another article on Cuba's bogus political process
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_corr...

"Court of a monarch

While there's no official personality cult, everyone knows exactly who's boss.
Cuban politics works almost like the court of a monarch. Rival factions form around a host of issues. Within the court, stars rise and stars fall. But the one pulling all the strings is Mr Castro.
He has never allowed opposition. The state has a spectacular system of internal control. It's far more subtle than the brutal military regimes I saw in Latin America in the 1980s. But it's more powerful, controlling so many aspects of daily life.
People become dependent on the state. Cubans complain constantly about everything. But it is never worth their while to take that to active opposition.
It is a great irony that in a country fed daily with rhetoric about revolutionary struggle, one of the most common phrases is "No coje lucha" - don't struggle over it.
Not surprisingly the dissident movement is small and divided - unable to agree about tactics, with no public voice and paranoid about spies. They face constant harassment, and often jail, but always with an escape valve allowing them to leave the island.

International press monitored

The state has an information network reaching down to every street - and, as I discovered, it is certainly monitoring the international press.
In my first six months in Havana, I was detained by the police three times, usually for filming where they didn't want me to. Each time a jovial young man came to bail me out with profuse apologies and a slap on the back.
After the third time, he asked me if I wanted to meet to chat. Hoping he might be a good source of information, I agreed. But to my questions, I got either the party line or non-committal answers. He also got little out of me.
His only request was that I didn't tell any other journalist of our meetings. They might misinterpret my meeting.
At the third meeting, I could tell we were being taped because he started waxing far too lyrical about Cuba's political system. We got onto the subject of the United States interests section, and he came out with a blatant request. Perhaps I could on a regular basis share information about what US diplomats were saying and thinking, he asked.
I rapidly told him that was not my job. We'll get you to change your mind, he said cheerfully. But it was the last of our meetings.
Afterwards I began to wonder how many of my colleagues had been recruited. When I told a Cuban friend, he laughed. That's what everyone here's thinking, he said."


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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Links please.
Do you want a list of the number of people Castro has killed?


Just some proof please.


Or imprisoned?


Yes. That would be nice.


Or how many acts of terror Cuban Communists have committed?


Some documentation would add veracity to your unsubstantiated claims.




You are going to have to wait a while, because it's going to take some time to compile.


Oh. It figures. As usual, just more mewling from the anti Cuba/Castrophobe propaganda gallery.
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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #50
66. There is more than one group working.....
..... on compiling very accurate lists of the number people killed and imprisoned under Castro's regime. They are trying to be painstakingly objective and some are even taking account the overall death toll, people killed by Castro and those who died fighting him, in order to get an better understanding of the overall cuban tragedy.

Their efforts are severely hampered by the fact that Cuba is a police state and their access to the victims families is severely limited. In essence the entire island is one big prison. So your petty denials are really a very poor attempt to obscure the facts/dynamics of the situation and influence the naieve individuals who read this thread in brief passing. You are the one spewing Communist propaganda.



Here are some links

http://www.memorialcubano.org/ListadelasVictimaseng.htm

1.The CUBAN MEMORIAL (Black List) is in our website. It contains a list of persons who have been murdered or have disappeared during Fidel Castro's 47 year regime.

2. The Cuban Memorial authorizes the printing and distribution of this copyrighted list as long as its content is not altered and the source is cited.

3. CUBAN MEMORIAL (Black List) is available through the following link



"The Revolution's Toll

A project to list each person killed for and against the Cuban revolution by name and date is underway, but it struggles to garner the funding it needs to complete its mission.

BY FRANCES ROBLES
frobles@MiamiHerald.com

At night when their children slept, Armando Hernández and his brother-in-law Ramón Toledo Lugo painted anti-Castro slogans on bed sheets, slipping out before dawn to hang them in the streets of Havana.

It was a family affair that landed virtually all 20 members of the extended family in jail, and worse.

Falsely accused of poisoning the water supply and vandalizing car tires by spewing nails in the streets, the law was hard on Hernández, 29, and Toledo, 39. They were executed by firing squad Oct. 2, 1982. Their wives and Toledo's parents went to prison for eight years each.

The two men's names are now on the Cuba Archive, a labor of love by two Cuban Americans who have vowed -- at great personal costs -- to record the history of those killed fighting for and against the Cuban revolution. It is a tedious task being undertaken by Dr. Armando Lago, a 66-year-old half-paralyzed economist, and Maria C. Werlau, 46, who gave up her consulting business to focus on documenting the dead.

The two seek to list, by name and with at least two sources, those who lost their lives fighting against or alongside Fidel Castro. Theirs is believed to be the first such systematic and well-sourced list of the names, which have been mounted on white Styrofoam crosses displayed each year at the Cuban Memorial in Tamiami Park.

Although the project is struggling financially, Werlau and Lago hope to create a searchable database that would be accessible at their organization's existing website, www.cubaarchive.org. A simple name search would show the fate of the victims. (Meanwhile, while Werlau and Lago work on the database, an extensive list of Castro's victims is now posted on The Cuba Memorial's Web site: www.memorialcubano.org .)"

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/special_packages/focus/14399297.htm








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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. A very small snapshot of the tragic cases being documented:
Owen Delgado Temprana. Age 15. 23-03-81, Villa Marista, Havana. Assassinated. Cuban Security agents stormed the Embassy of Ecuador, where he had taken refuge with his family. Taken to State Security headquarters, he was beaten to death.

Loamis González Manzini. Age16. 01-07-93, Cojimar beach, Havana province. Assassinated. Shot by Cuban border guards while swimming towards a boat that had gone to Cuba to pick him up

Three Lazo children 197. Caribbean Sea. Assassinated with their mother. They disappeared into the ocean after their boat was rammed by a Cuban Navy vessel. Their mother was devoured by sharks, their father survived and died in prison under suspicious circumstances

Alexis E. Márquez Ríos. Age 6. 20-10-99. Cuban waters, 12 km. North of Havana. Assassinated with their mother. Drowned when their boat was rammed and sunk by a Cuban Coast Guard vessel

Orlando Travieso Jr. Age17. 03-91. Cuban territorial waters, north of Havana. Assassinated. Killed by Cuban Navy machine gun fire while attempting to flee the island

13 de marzo” tugboat massacre, 13-07-94 45 drowned when the Cuban Coast
Guard sank the tugboat “13 de marzo”. Victims included the following 12
children:

Ángel Abreu, age 3
Giselle Borjes, age 4
Juan Mario Gutiérrez, age 11
Caridad Leyva, age 4
Helen Martínez, age 6 mos.
Mayulis Méndez, age 16
José Nicol, age 3
Yousel Pérez, age 11
Yassel Perodín, age 11
Cindy Rodríguez, age 2
Yolindis Rodríguez, age 2
Eliezer Suárez, age 11

Note, the only "crime" these people committed was trying to leave Cuba
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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. The police state in Cuba that prevents people from getting to the truth
CUBA'S REPRESSIVE MACHINERY

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba /

"Over the past forty years, Cuba has developed a highly effective machinery of repression. The denial of basic civil and political rights is written into Cuban law. In the name of legality, armed security forces, aided by state-controlled mass organizations, silence dissent with heavy prison terms, threats of prosecution, harassment, or exile. Cuba uses these tools to restrict severely the exercise of fundamental human rights of expression, association, and assembly. The conditions in Cuba's prisons are inhuman, and political prisoners suffer additional degrading treatment and torture. In recent years, Cuba has added new repressive laws and continued prosecuting nonviolent dissidents while shrugging off international appeals for reform and placating visiting dignitaries with occasional releases of political prisoners.

This report documents Cuba's failures to respect the civil and political rights enumerated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) as well as the international human rights and labor rights treaties it has ratified. It shows that neither Cuban law nor practice guarantees the fundamental rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration. Cuba's obligation to respect the declaration arises from its incorporation into the United Nations Charter, rendering all member states, including Cuba, subject to its provisions. The UDHR is widely recognized as customary international law. It is a basic yardstick to measure any country's human rights performance. Unfortunately, Cuba does not measure up"

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NewSpectrum Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. More on Cuba's Police State
Codifying Repression

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-03.htm#P64...

"The Cuban Criminal Code lies at the core of Cuba's repressive machinery, unabashedly criminalizing nonviolent dissent. With the Criminal Code in hand, Cuban officials have broad authority to repress peaceful government opponents. Cuba's criminal laws are designed to crush domestic dissent and keep the current government in power by tightly restricting the freedoms of speech, association, assembly, press, and movement.

Cuban authorities go through strained circumlocutions to deny the existence of political prisoners in Cuba. Despite admitting that Cuban law bars vocal opposition to Castro and other officials, Cuban Justice Minister Roberto Díaz Sotolongo claimed in an interview with Human Rights Watch that Cuba holds no political prisoners. He said that Cuban criminal laws only penalize conduct, not thought, and as an example, distinguished between the illegality of committing an overt act in the furtherance of a murder versus the legality of merely thinking about it.57 Yet numerous Cuban criminal provisions explicitly penalize the exercise of fundamental freedoms while others, which are so vaguely defined as to offer Cuban officials broad discretion in their interpretation, are often invoked to silence government critics.

Cuban authorities regularly refer to peaceful government opponents as "counterrevolutionaries." But Cuba's invocation of state security interests to control nonviolent dissent—for acts as innocuous as handing out "Down with Fidel" flyers—represents a clear abuse of authority. Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights restrictions of fundamental rights are only permissable:

for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.58

Cuba's efforts to silence critics fall well outside these limits.

An international team of legal scholars, diplomats, and U.N. rights specialists, meeting at a 1995 conference in Johannesburg, South Africa, drafted a set of principles that provide further guidance regarding permissable justifications for restricting rights. In particular, the Johannesburg Principles on National Security, Freedom of Expression and Access to Information distinguish between legitimateand illegitimate invocations of national security interests. Legitimate reasons to invoke national security interests are:

protecting a country's existence or its territorial integrity against the use or threat of force, or its capacity to respond to the threat or use of force, whether from an external source, such as a military threat, or an internal source, such as incitement to violent overthrow of the government.

In contrast, illegitimate justifications for invoking national security interests include:

protecting the government from embarrassment or exposure of wrongdoing, or to entrench a particular ideology, or to conceal information about the functioning of its public institutions, or to suppress industrial action.59

The Johannesburg Principles also specify that certain types of expression should always be protected, including criticizing or insulting the state and its symbols; advocating nonviolent change of government or government policies; and communicating human rights information.60 Cuba's state security laws violate these principles, illegitimately restricting fundamental rights both in the phrasing of the laws themselves and in their application against nonviolent dissidents.

The human cost of Cuba's repressive Criminal Code is high. Thousands of Cubans have faced wrongful prosecutions and imprisonment since the Castro government came into power in 1959. Despite growing international criticism of the Criminal Code, the Cuban government has roundly refused to reform its most offensive provisions and has continued arrests and prosecutions of government opponents, detailed below at Prosecutions Continue and Routine Repression.

In the past two years, Cuban prosecutors have relied heavily on the provisions against enemy propaganda and contempt for authority (desacato) to silence dissent. Prosecutors also have tried dissidents for defamation, resisting authority, association to commit criminal acts (asociación para delinquir), dangerousness (elestado peligroso), and other acts against state security (otros actos contra la seguridad del estado) during this period. Cuba's prisons confine scores of citizens convicted for the exercise of their fundamental rights, or in some cases, convicted without ever having committed a criminal act, for dangerousness. Cuba also detains nonviolent political prisoners who were tried for crimes against state security, such as enemy propaganda, rebellion, sabotage, and revealing secrets concerning state security. Individuals convicted of state security crimes for having exercised their fundamental rights often are serving sentences of ten to twenty years. Prisoners also are wrongfully serving sentences for contempt for authority and illegal exit. The government's inhuman treatment of its detainees, which in some cases rises to the level of torture, is detailed below at General Prison Conditions, Treatment of Political Prisoners, and Labor Rights: Prison Labor."


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. I think what may not be clear here is that hoping Junior
will not create yet another international debacle is not implicit support for all things Castro.

And having said that, we have a mote and beam problem. Our corrupt elections are better than Castro's? Our political prisoners are better than his? Our treatment of detainees is more democratically abusive than his?

True naivete is assuming that the United States has ever intervened in Latin America without screwing the people, disrupting nascent democratic processes or lining the pockets of our elite.

If you don't like Castro, whom the United States made necessary in the first place, I can only assume you won't like the result of our next incursion into Cuba's autonomy.
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IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. Very true.
It would be fair to say that M$M reporters are virtually indistinguishable from whatever ideological enemies a given socialist country may have.
A nation like Cuba has the perfect right to protect itself from these predators.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. The point is
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 07:56 PM by Marie26
that there's something the Cuban government doesn't want the world to know. The Cuban press is run & owned by the government & can be more easily controlled. Foreign journalists might send a story over the wires before the gov. has a chance to review & censor it. I also find it suspicious that Castro has not appeared in public since his surgery. If he were fine, you'd think he'd be out & about giving speeches. Even if he were just resting, you'd think they'd release a picture of him. It's also weird that Castro would pass power to his brother Raul over something as minor as stomach surgery. He's clung to power 40+ years, why give it up now, even temporarily? Raul also hasn't appeared in public since the announcement. I think there's a lot more going on here. For all we know, Castro might already be dead. Maybe there's some fight behind the scenes right now over who should take power.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Reporters sending stories out "over the wires"?
Gosh, I can see them lining up at the telegraph office right now.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Wire reports
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 10:12 PM by Marie26
The Associated Press & Reuters reporters send their articles directly to newspapers all over the world "over the wires". Newspapers get a continuous stream of "wire reports" from the AP, & then decide which stories they want to include in the paper. Way back in the day, that might've referred to telegraphs, but the term is still used today to describe the instant communication of stories from the AP to newspapers worldwide.

Here's a link: "What is a Newswire?" - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-news-wire.htm
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. it is rumored that Castro is dead..brother in hiding..they will probably
announce it after the party leaders can evacuate the island, before they all get lynched..
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Somebody is projecting their own fantasies here.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks for posting! I was trying hard to remember if the poster
had ever posted anything like that before. I was completely flummoxed by that one! Had no idea how to perceive it.

It's a little bit different from REALITY.



http://www.havanasurf-cuba.com/photographs/surfing_photographs_cuba.html
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. I wonder if the CPJ is also urging the Bush misadministration
to release the San Francisco blogger they took into custody for protecting his sources.

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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Eugene Robinson from the Wash Post was denied entry
wrote a column about it today.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I can't muster much concern that the propaganda arm of the
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 01:26 PM by sfexpat2000
Bush government is being denied entry to Cuba when they've announced their intention to destablize it.

What do they expect, a cigar?

/d
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I wouldn't call Eugene Robinson a propaganda agent
for the Bush administration. However, since it makes Cuba look bad, obviously you believe he must be.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I wasn't slandering Mr. Robinson in particular, but the fishwap
that cuts his check.

And, I don't think this makes Cuba look bad. I think it makes Cuba look smart.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
87. It makes them look as if they have something to hide
Except, of course, in the eyes of the Castro worshippers who are just as blind as the Bush worshippers.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. Something to hide or something to protect?
When did this kind of scrunity become decent, let alone, manditory? Since media manipulation was born?

I guess it depends on how you look.

My hope is that Cuba can defend herself against American interference -- which in itself is probably a pipe dream.
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Big f*ckn deal...
Any idea how many Cuban scientists, artists, educators, Grammy nominees and others the USSA has denied entry to?

http://www.google.com/search?q=cubans+%2Bdenied+entry+to+us&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N

Like someone said below... pretty smart of the Cubans to keep those oligarch controlled media-swines out of their country.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That was me and I want credit for that. Because it's taken me
nearly 25 years to peel away the layers of propaganda and understand: Latin America = a brown peopled land that we can fuck with.

And, today, I'm so very happy to be part of the solution.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. You should be given credit. So many Americans aren't haven't been
able to climb beyond a childish acceptance of everything their media tells them.

They only suspect anything which doesn't agree with their right-wing lies embedded long, long ago. Very few seem to have the intelligence to climb out of their intellectual graveyards once their brains have stopped working independently of the propaganda. Lulled to sleep from their slavish dependency for reassurance by the right-wing media: hoping unceasing hostility toward all dark-skinned will keep them safe.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. It's an entirely new world, when you begin to realize how
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 02:37 PM by sfexpat2000
the US has used Latin America as their own private plantation.

Good luck to them on continuing this predatory attitude.

:)
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Yes they are
“We’re extremely concerned by the jailing of journalist Joshua Wolf and are monitoring developments closely,” said Joel Simon, executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists. “While we recognize that Wolf has legal protections not available to journalists in many other parts of the world, his jailing is alarming precisely because democratic countries rarely take such a drastic step.”

http://www.cpj.org/news/2006/americas/usa02aug06na.html
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Interesting. Thank you, Freddie. n/t
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. What gall: requiring proper visas!
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. What is going on in Cuba right now?
Some speculation based on events in the past (not Cuba).

Castro is not well and is close to dead if not dead. There is a power struggle going on between Raul and other elements in government (who that could be I have no idea). Whoever wins the power struggle will appear on TV shortly after the death of Castro is announced. The media will be filled with pictures of the winner and Castro together and posthumous statements by Castro stating how person X is the true inheritor of the revolution.

Whoever gets on tv first or most will be the next leader of Cuba.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes. And left to itself, Cuba will handle itself.
Which is why I have no problem at all with Cuba excluding BushCo's lapdogs. Much as I'd love to have good reporting out of Cuba right now, I can wait. I don't think the Castro government is any better than it is, but it's a helluva lot better than American intervention.

By the way, when was the last time a Western journalist reported out of Gitmo?
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
93. June 8, 2006?
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Chris W Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Why don't they just follow established rules of Cuba to name the leader?
Surely a line of succession is clearly established.

If George W. Bush died today, Dick Cheney would be President.

If George W. Bush and Dick Cheney died today, House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert would be President.

If George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Dennis Hastert died today, President Pro Tempore of the Senate Ted Stevens would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert and Stevens died today, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens and Rice died today, Secretary of the Treasury Henry M. Paulson Jr. would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice and Paulson died today, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson and Rumsfeld died today, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld and Gonzales died today, Secretary of the Interior Dick Kempthorne would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Kempthorne died today, Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns would be President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Kempthorne and Johanns died today, Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez would NOT be President, because he was born in, of all places, Cuba. Neither would Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao, because she was born in Taiwan. However, Secretary of Health and Human Services Michael Leavitt, would become President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Kempthorne, Johanns, native-born Secretaries of Commerce and Labor, and Leavitt all died today, Secretary of Housing and Human Development Alphonso Jackson would become President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Kempthorne, Johanns, native-born Secretaries of Commerce and Labor, Leavitt and Jackson all died today, Secretary of Transportation Maria Cino would probably not become President, because she has not been confirmed in that position and is only acting after Norm Mineta resigned. So Secretary of Energy Samuel W. Bodman would become President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Kempthorne, Johanns, native-born Secretaries of Commerce and Labor, Leavitt, Jackson, the confirmed Secretary of Transportation and Bodman all died today, Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings would become President.

If Bush, Cheney, Hastert, Stevens, Rice, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Kempthorne, Johanns, native-born Secretaries of Commerce and Labor, Leavitt, Jackson, the confirmed Secretary of Transportation, Bodman and Spellings all died today, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson would become President.

Legislation in Congress still pending would place Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff in line after Gonzales, but before Kempthorne. There have always been plans to keep one random Cabinet member away during times where everyone else was gathered in one place, such as State of the Union Addresses and, after 9/11, these plans were updated to include one Congressman and one Senator from each party, in the event that a replacement for the House Speaker and Senate President Pro Temporare was required as well.

That means that there are up to 22 people designated in a specific order to take charge of the country in the event of disaster, regardless of the nature of that disaster. And every single one of those people serve within the 4 to 8 year limits designated to the Executive Branch, or the 2 to 6 year limits designated to Congress. After 47 years of being the leader's brother and chosen successor, Raul Castro still can't show up in public. Some of you people would honestly prefer the uncertainty of not knowing who would decide whether you live or die behind closed doors rather than the certainty that Condoleeza Rice would have to win election in 2008 to make further decisions?

And you call yourselves progressives?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Are you saying Raul Castro is hiding because he is in danger?
His brother Fidel Castro goes out in an open jeep. He has been seen personally in Cuba out and about by a DU'er on one of his many trips to that island.

There are news clips showing Raul out and around, as well.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Has he been out & about
since the transfer of power? Doesn't seem like it.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. It's not his habit, actually.
Here's something from a recent article:
As reclusive as his sibling was drawn to the limelight, Raul Castro has made few public appearances, given only a handful of interviews and often disappeared for months or even years.

"Every so often a rumor gets started that I died," he quipped to Cuban journalists when he surfaced in December 1991 after a long absence.

"During the Pan-American Games, they were saying I was being kept in a freezer."
(snip/)
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-castro,0,7216438.story?coll=ktla-news-1
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #58
89. So what's he going to do, run the country from behind closed doors?
Give out his orders through a speakerbox, like Charlie from Charlie's Angels used to do? Never seen. Only heard.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. BTW, Fidel Castro is still the Head of State of Cuba - he ain't dead.
Fidel hasn't died nor relinquished his position as legal Head of State of Cuba. He has only temporarily handed off some responsibilities of some ministries of the government.

Just because the US anti Cuba press is mewling that Castro "handed off power" to Raul doesn't mean that Mr R Castro is now Head of State.

None of your comparisons as to the transition of leadership in the US even comes close to applying to Cuba because Mr Fidel Castro hasn't died - he's simply had surgery and by most all accounts he is recuperating well.

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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
90. But you would think Raul would come out and make a public statement
To show Cuba that he is in control.
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praeclarus Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #40
76. nah
You got that all wrong, it's the Secretary of State that's
"in control here" if any of that shtuff happens. Everybody
knows that. ;)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. Check out this OP in GD: Reporters W/O borders caught taking $
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. This is exquisite. People who have been watching Cuba events for a while
Edited on Sat Aug-05-06 09:24 AM by Judi Lynn
have known this about Reporters Without Borders, have known they're dirty, even though they continue to crank out the propaganda for the right-wing U.S. idiots concerning Latin America.

From the article quoted in the link you provided by DU'er Joanne98:
August 1, 2006

International Republican Institute Grants Uncovered
Reporters Without Borders and Washington's Coups
By DIANA BARAHONA and JEB SPRAGUE

~snip~
The discovery of the grants reveals a major deception by the group, which for years denied it was getting any Washington dollars until some relatively small grants from the NED and the Center for a Free Cuba were revealed (see Counterpunch: "Reporters Without Borders Unmasked"). When asked to account for its large income RSF has claimed the money came from the sale of books of photographs. But researcher Salim Lamrani has pointed out the improbability of this claim. Even taking into account that the books are published for free, it would have had to sell 170 200 books in 2004 and 188 400 books in 2005 to earn the more than $2 million the organization claims to make each year ­ 516 books per day in 2005. The money clearly had to come from other sources, as it turns out it did.

The I.R.I., an arm of the Republican Party, specializes in meddling in elections in foreign countries, as a look at NED annual reports and the I.R.I. website shows. It is one of the four core grantees of the NED, the organization founded by Congress under the Reagan administration in 1983 to replace the CIA's civil society covert action programs, which had been devastated by exposure by the Church committee in the mid-1970s (Ignatius, 1991). The other three pillars of the NED are the National Democratic Institute (the Democratic Party), the Solidarity Center (AFL-CIO) and the Center for International Private Enterprise (U.S. Chamber of Commerce). But of all the groups the I.R.I. is closest to the Bush administration, according to a recent piece in The New York Times exposing its role in the overthrow of Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide:

"President Bush picked its president, Lorne W. Craner, to run his administration's democracy-building efforts. The institute, which works in more than 60 countries, has seen its federal financing nearly triple in three years, from $26 million in 2003 to $75 million in 2005. Last spring, at an I.R.I. fund-raiser, Mr. Bush called democracy-building 'a growth industry.'" (Bogdanich and Nordberg, 2006)

Funding from the I.R.I. presents a major problem for RSF's credibility as a "press freedom" organization because the group manufactured propaganda against the popular democratic governments of Venezuela and Haiti at the same time that its patron, the I.R.I., was deeply involved in efforts to overthrow them. The I.R.I. funded the Venezuelan opposition to President Hugo Chavez (Barry, 2005) and actively organized Haitian opposition to Aristide in conjunction with the CIA (Bogdanich and Nordberg, 2006).
(snip)
http://counterpunch.org/barahona08012006.html

....and that link leads to an earlier story:
May 17, 2005

Its Secret Deal with Otto Reich to Wreck Cuba's Economy
Reporters Without Borders Unmasked
By DIANA BARAHONA

When Robert Menard founded Reporters Without Borders twenty years ago, he gave his group a name which evokes another French organization respected worldwide for its humanitarian work and which maintains a strict neutrality in political conflicts ­ Doctors Without Borders. But RSF (French acronym) has been anything but nonpartisan and objective in its approach to Latin America and to Cuba in particular.

From the beginning, RSF has made Cuba its No. 1 target. Allegedly founded to advocate freedom of the press around the world and to help journalists under attack, the organization has called Cuba "the world's biggest prison for journalists." It even gives the country a lower ranking on its press freedom index than countries where journalists routinely have been killed, such as Colombia, Peru and Mexico. RSF has waged campaigns aimed at discouraging Europeans from vacationing in Cuba and the European Union from doing business there ­ its only campaigns worldwide intended to damage a country's economy.

The above is not a matter of chance because it turns out that RSF is on the payroll of the U.S. State Department and has close ties to Helms-Burton-funded Cuban exile groups.

As a majority of members of Congress work toward normalizing trade and travel with Cuba, the extremist anti-Castro groups that have dictated U.S. Cuba policy for 40 years continue working tirelessly to maintain an economic stranglehold on the island. Their support for RSF is part of this overall strategy.
(snip/...)
http://www.counterpunch.org/barahona05172005.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


As you can see, there are some witless people who swallow their bilge hook, line, and sinker because they simply REFUSE TO THINK and they REFUSE TO LOOK MORE DEEPLY themselves.

Thank you, sfexpat2000!

(Edited to add emphasis)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You are welcome! n/t
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. can't doctors without borders sue them to stop using their name? n/t
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Reporters w/o Border in bed with the NED--surprise!!! NOT
that doesn't surprise me in the least!!

The NED funneled money to CANF (RayGun's favorite Miami-based Terrorist group) and CANF in turn sent it on various corrupt pols who then got on the let's bash Cuba campaign. Wayne Smith, former diplomat to Cuba, talked about it in a documentary and was promptly sued by the CANF. Unfortunately for the Cuba haters, Wayne Smith has never caved in and RayGun's favorite terrorist, Jorge Mas Canosa, is dead. Here's some background on it:

<clips>

Right-Wing Exile Foundation in Florida Uses Defamation Suits
To Chill Criticism of Its Policies

...Equally vocal is Wayne Smith, formerly head of the Cuban desk at the State Department and of the U.S. Interests Section in Cuba until he retired from the foreign service in 1982, disgruntled with the Reagan Administration's confrontational approach to dealing with the Castro government. Smith, who now teaches at The Johns Hopkins University and is a fellow in a Washington think tank, the Center for International Policy, has since become a leading critic of U.S. policy toward Cuba and especially CANF's influence on that policy. He often writes for major newspapers and appears on television skewering Washington policymakers, Mas Canosa and others who he believes are blocking a rational dialogue over the Cuban problem.

That outspokenness is what got him in trouble, at least with Mas Canosa. in 1992 Smith was interviewed by filmmakers from the University of West Florida for a documentary titled "Campaign for Cuba," which aired on PBS that year. Smith's statements on that program formed the basis of CANF's lawsuit against him. In a 20-second sound bite, he summarized an article by John Spicer Nichols that appeared in The Nation in 1988. The article, titled "Cuba: The Congress; The Power of the Anti-Fidel Lobby," reported that the National Endowment for Democracy, a quasi-governmental institute that funnels U.S. tax dollars to projects intended to support democracy abroad, signed contracts with CANF from 1983-1988 awarding the foundation grants totalling $390,000 for the purpose of supporting a European organization also seeking to marshal opposition to the Castro government.

During that same period, the political action committee associated- through interlocking directorships with CANF gave a nearly identical sum of contributions to political candidates. Among the candidates to receive a portion of this PAC money was then Congressman Dante Fascell, who introduced the legislation creating NED and later became a member of the NED board. As a board member, Fascell, whose congressional district in South Florida encompassed the headquarters for CANF and the homes of many of its leaders, voted for grants to CANF on at least three occasions.

http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reports/98-3NRfall98/Nichols_SLAPP.html

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Blatant. They don't worry about being caught because they have
bought all the protection they need in Congress and beyond.

That's why someone like Wayne Smith can point out the fact that their pet Congressmen are giving them huge chunks of change, and they are turning right around, and sending it right back to their favorite Congressmen through their P.A.C.'s in the almost IDENTICAL amount, and they feel cocky enough to try to sue the pants off the very one who points it out.

Scummy, rotten bastards.

They wore out their welcome so long ago.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. they're shut out because half of them are probably spy's for bush n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Some may be CIA operatives
getting Negroponte's money.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. And it makes you wonder, how many of the same guys operated
in FL, in OH, in CO and PA and NM and so on.

Doesn't it?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #30
73. And, here's a GD thread that speaks to this question:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
49. Man, these people are about as secretive as
Cheney setting energy policy with Enron and the like.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
51. Has either Castro or his brother
appeared in public since Castro's surgery?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Why would they? n/t
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Because it's VITAL
Cuba is a totalitarian regime - all power in one leader. So it's vital for that leader to appear strong & in control to preserve stability. Yet neither Castro nor his brother are appearing in public. No formal announcement has been made & it's not clear who's in power. So right now, Cuba is in limbo. Who's in charge? What is Castro's condition? No one really knows. Castro is a smart guy & knows how to maintain power. If he were really fine, he'd be sure to appear in front of the Cuban people to reassure them of his condition. The silence here is deafening. There is something happening behind the scenes. Combine this w/the story about journalists being thrown out of Cuba, & I think the Cuban gov. is definitely trying to keep something secret.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. How many people who had stomach surgery a couple of days ago
would you expect to see wheeled out onto a balcony to blow kisses?

He was still in bed flat on his back until yesterday when it was said he was able to sit up for a while.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. link?
I'd like to see any reports from people who have personally spoken to Castro or seen his condition. It'd be helpful to figure out exactly how he is recovering.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Here

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-03-castro-sister_x.htm
younger sister of ailing Fidel Castro, said Thursday she has been told the longtime dictator is recovering from surgery and "doing well."

Juanita Castro, 73, spoke from her elegantly furnished home in suburban Miami. She said she had been on the phone to family and friends in Havana since the Cuban government's announcement late Monday that her brother had emergency intestinal surgery.

Juanita, a pharmacy owner who fled Cuba four decades ago, would not reveal how she learned of her brother's condition, but said: "The surgery was a major surgery. He's doing OK. He's out of intensive care, and he's in his own room."



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/03/world/main1861149.shtml
Castro's sister, Juanita Castro, who lives in Miami and has been estranged from him since 1963, told CNN she had spoken with people in Havana who told her that her brother had been released from intensive care Wednesday morning.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. That's even worse
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 11:38 PM by Marie26
Key words:

"younger sister of ailing Fidel Castro, said Thursday she has been told the longtime dictator is recovering from surgery and "doing well."

Meaning, she hasn't spoken to him directly since the surgery. Also, she "would not reveal how she learned of her brother's condition."

"she had spoken with people in Havana who told her that her brother had been released."

The legal term for this is hearsay, & it wouldn't be admitted in any court. She's not reporting anything she's personally experienced. Castro's own sister apparently hasn't spoken to him or seen him since his surgery. Isn't that odd? Instead, she's been told that he's recovering. Why can't she say who told her about his condition? I'd bet she learned this from a government official. Maybe the same official who told Chavez that Castro is doing well. There's still not one single report from anyone who has personally seen or spoken to Castro since his surgery. This is perfectly in line w/my little theory. No one has seen Castro's recovery because he isn't recovering.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #65
92. She hasn't spoken to him directly since 1964
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Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. Have Fidel and Juana Castro Reconciled?
Or so you believe. Cuban siblings are too close for them to have remained estranged for 42 years. Of course, it would be to Juanita Castro's advantage not to let it be known that she still speaks to Fidel. Imagine what the Miami gusanos would do to her?

Her "contact" in Cuba seems likely to be her (and Fidel's) older brother Ramón.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Nice of you to generalize
Cubans are very tightknit when it comes to family, but they are also very extreme when it comes to politics.

From what I've read (and I've recently read articles about her dating back to 1968 for research on an article I'm writing), she keeps in contact with her sisters who live in Cuba by mail. She uses an assumed name when communicating with them.

I'll leave the speculation to you as to what is the truth. I'll keep my statements to what has actually been reported.
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Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. But Family Trumps Politics
But family usually trumps politics unless the Miami gusano community sets out deliberately to destroy those cherished families ties.

The relations between the González family in Cárdenas and Hialeah were excellent until the CANF seized Elian hostage and made his relatives do their bidding.

Elian's touching letter to his "dear grandfather" Fidel wishing him a speedy recovery is the greatest slap in the face to those who believed that anything but love awaited him in Cuba.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. So maybe not the best source then? nt
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. It's been reported that she maintains contact with her sisters in Cuba
So maybe she is able to keep up with the gossip through the family grapevine.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Its quite clear. Not in limbo.
Mr Fidel Castro is still the Cuban head of state.

Just because the US media and BushCrimeInc insist its not clear doesn't make it so - unless you choose to believe mewling MSM & BushCo propaganda intended to stir the pot in order to benefit their efforts to boost funding (our tax dollars) for their evil "transition" plan for Cuba.

Your post indicates that you are dancing to their (BushCrimeInc's) tune.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Please
:eyes: CUBA is insisting that Raul Castro is the temporary head of state - that was the letter released to news media. I've never heard the US media or BuchCrimeInc. say that it's unclear - the US news media is dutifully reporting the party line, that Raul is simply taking over power until Castro recovers from surgery. I'm saying it's unclear based on my own perception of this event, and based on the lack of a formal announcement or public appearance by Castro or his brother. Your post indicates that you employ knee-jerk reactions in place of thinking.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Key word - provisional.
Edited on Sun Aug-06-06 11:06 PM by Mika
Provisional
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=provisional

Nowhere in the announcement is there a mention of transfer of the position of Head of State.


Translated text of Mr F Castro's letter --> the FORMAL announcement..

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003168307_webcastrospeech01.html


The knee-jerk reactions in place of thinking is taking place in the US by the media and the lemmings who choose to toe the line, not in Cuba.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #63
71. So what?
Edited on Mon Aug-07-06 08:24 AM by Marie26
First of all, my point was that we have not seen a formal announcement from Castro or his brother regarding this delegation. All we have is a letter that may or may not be valid. W/o official confirmation from either Castro, there's no way to be sure of its authenticity or force. Second, the letter does delegate leadership to Raul Castro until Castro removes that delegation of power. From the letter:

1) I delegate in a provisional manner my functions as first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Cuba to the second secretary, comrade Raul Castro Ruz.

2) I delegate in a provisional manner my functions as Commander in Chief of the heroic Revolutionary Armed Forces to the same comrade, Army Gen. Raul Castro Ruz.

Raul Castro is the functional head of state of Cuba. He has been delegated this power by the head of state, Fidel Castro. I don't get why you are latching onto this so much. If & when Castro recovers, he will recover his title & duties. That doesn't change the fact that Raul Castro has, according to this letter, become the new provisional leader until Castro's recovery.

That's assuming that Castro even wrote this letter, which I'm beginning to seriously doubt. The letter says: "This has caused in me an acute intestinal crisis with sustained bleeding that has obliged me to undergo a complicated surgical operation. All the details of this health accident can be seen in X-rays, endoscopies and filmed material. The operation will force me to take several weeks of rest, away from my responsibilities and duties." So, he's in acute intestinal crisis & then takes the time to write a letter? I'd bet that this letter was written by someone else after the fact, when Castro became unexpectedly severely ill/unconscious, and his ministers were trying to figure out who should lead the country. They released this letter in order to maintain order & appoint a temporary figurehead until a more permenent solution is found.

I do not understand your position that questioning this letter makes me a knee-jerk lemming for BushCrimeInc. Do you see anyone in the US media questioning this letter? I sure don't. The lemmings, IMO, are the people who believe & repeat this unconditionally w/o examining the odd circumstances surrounding this transfer of power.

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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. It's amazing the double standards here.
What is Castro suffering from? No announcement except that it is in the intestines. No it is in the stomach. And it needs to be operated on.

What operation did he undergo? No information.

Where is Raul Castro? No information.

Can journalists from other countries enter Cuba? No.

And yet the usual Castro apologists try to steer the thread towards foreign journalists and those who want to know what's going on.

Cuba is afraid that they can't "control" the news if foreign journalists enter, so what does that say for your socialist paradise? Trying to suppress the foreign press like they suppress the local Cuban 'press.'
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. I'm no Castro apologist but I do know the history of the United States
in Latin America. Cuba is defending herself from that history.
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Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. No, You Can't Bring Back Yellow Journalism. Yankees Stay Home!
An American journalist does not have an inherent right to demand entry into a foreign nation; nor does the denial of such entry constitute an infringement of his rights. This is especially true when they were attempting to gain entrance under false colors.

We are not living at the end of the 19th century when Wm. Randolph Hearst chartered his own yacht to scour the waters of Cuba looking to provoke a war. The era of Yellow Journalism is dead.

Can anyone doubt for a moment what were the real intentions of these so-called "journalists" (read provocateurs)?

I would not put it beyond them to throw a few pennies at the people so that they will dance for them, and then wire the pictures back to the States with the caption "Wild Rejoicing In Havana Over Castro's Imminent Demise."

Americans should enjoy for even one day the real freedom that Cubans have known for 47 years.

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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. Nice switch of the topic, Akim.
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 10:55 AM by robcon
Cuba does not have to open its borders to anyone. But when foreign journalists want to enter, they can choose to have multiple points of view, or they can choose to control the message.

Cuba has chosen to annouce Castro's unspecified ailment, in an unspecified location (either intestines or stomach.) Ther was an unspecified operation, and the results are vaguely "fine."

Cuba shows its totalitarian stripes every day. So do you, Akim.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. Yeah, right. Cuba is totalitarian and you live in a representative
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 11:31 AM by sfexpat2000
democracy where the "president" gets his election called by his cousin at Faux news.

lol

/s
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. Exactly, Akim. Your only response is, again, to change the topic.
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 11:22 AM by robcon
You've swallowed the Castro Kool-Aid, and asked for more.

If you think free elections, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to petition the government and freedom to run against an incumbent are "bourgeois" values, you've swallowed the totalitarian Kool-Aid whole.

Just keep thinking "repression of dissent" and "murdering dissidents" are "revolutionary justice," Akim. That'll make it all right.

In your totalitarian world, Pelosi and Reid would be in prison, and Kucinich and Feingold would be executed, Akim. Enjoy "your world."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. I believe you are addressing the wrong poster.
And when was the last time you believe you had free elections? Turn on LINK, robcon. "Got Democracy is coming on in a minute. Then, get back to me.
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Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Who's the Real Totalitarian?
Robcon:

When will you stop attempting to inflict your own belief-system on other people? Isn't this the real totalitarian behavior?

There are many visions of democracy. Remember that Hitler came to power through democratic elections.

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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #71
81. Because any questioning of Dear Leader must be attacked.
Its where state run media is accepted blindly while any source counter to that (regardless of credibility) is to be attacked as either an enemy or a prop/pawn of the enemy.

Its where Amnesty International and Human Right Watch are neocon organizations bent on destroying the revolution.

It does gives you insight to the old Bushbots and issues of unflinching loyalty though.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #51
79. Not yet
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. Really?
*tapping foot* *checking watch*. But Chavez said that Castro was up & about! Why is the great leader waiting so long to appear before a grateful nation? :shrug:
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