Military prosecutor brands accused US troops 'war criminals'

[Barrett808]

TIKRIT, Iraq (AFP) - A military prosecutor branded four US soldiers who have been accused of murdering Iraqi prisoners "war criminals" and demanded they face court martial.

The prosecutor, Captain Joseph Mackey, was speaking on the last day of a legal hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to prosecute the troops following the May 9 slaying of three detainees.

"US soldiers must follow the laws of war. That's what makes us better than the terrorists, what sets us apart from the thugs and the hitmen. These soldiers did just the opposite," Mackey said, in his closing argument.

The defendants, he charged, had cut the prisoners free of their plastic handcuffs and then "murdered them in cold blood", later falsely claiming that the victims had escaped and assaulted their captors.

"For this, they're not war heroes, they're war criminals, and justice states that they face trial," he concluded.

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060804/pl_afp/iraqusmilitarytrial

[KansDem]

1. Monkey see, monkey do...

This all starts at the top...in the White House. Once Bush thumbed his nose at the Geneva Conventions and had his AG okay torture, all checks and balances went out the window; all semblance of "humanity" in time of war evaporated. And, of course, all this mayhem continues, propagated with lie after lie. We do not have the moral high ground anymore: Bush took that and placed it squarely on the bottom of the deepest cesspool

This is gang warfare with hi-tech weaponry.

The "cause" was never just; the "obligation" was never moral...

[atreides1]

4. Not really

These men obeyed what was explicitly an illegal order, the order didn't come from Bush, it came from their commanding officer, according to the accused.

I'm not a Bush fan, but we all need to stop putting every crime committed by the troops at his door.
Some of these soldiers and marines may have gone into this with their own bigotry and racism already in place, and to always point the finger at Bush is like blaming a parent when their adult child decides to climb up into a tower and start shooting people

The troops accused of these crimes may very well have thought that they had a free pass, mainly because the US refused to participate in the ICC, and if I remember corectly a majority of Americans
agreed with this refusal, to the point that some in the Congress even threatened to "send in the Marines" to free any American troops being held for war crimes, should another country turn an American troop in.

So, in a way this is not only Bush's fault, but the fault of the American public as well.

[rodeodance]

6. yes, in mnay ways most gave tacit approval, yet the 'thinking' from the

WH et (leaders)---and I add the 'press/media"--influences the minds down the river.

[4dsc]

8. Its not my fault buddy

How dare you think or believe that somehow Americans who did not support this war are at fault for the actions of these troops..

The fault lies at the TOP of the chain of command aka BUSH!! He started this illegal war, he's ultimately responsible for the actions of ALL the troops there!!

[acmavm]

9. These guys came to that line drawn in the sand where they

had to chose whether or not to become an amoral monster. To decide to kill other human beings not only because he could but because he had 'permission'. But in the end these bastards pulled those triggers.

So they are every damn bit as guilty as the thugs that ordered them to Iraq.

[Herkdrvr]

20. I disagree

Just because Bush is the CinC and set his policy in a certain direction, didn't mean that I cleaned off my PERSONAL moral slate and played robot. Neither did MOST of the people serving in the US military.

War crimes have been committed by troops of just about every country in every conflict. I'm not giving those guys a pass by any means. Doing wrong is doing wrong, and they have to be held accountable.

However, what YOU are saying is Bush set aside the GCs. Therefore, the troops suddenly got the green light to massacre civilians. That is not the case. I would never shoot a civilian unless I though that person posed an immediate threat to me, and I think that is the viewpoint of nearly everyone else I serve with.

There ARE serious problems with the current administration. However, our basic doctrinal policy still says killing non-combatants is illegal, immoral and MURDER. That never changed.

[Mandate My Ass]

2. I agree, but follow it up the chain. Those orders came from

on high, as we know from Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. Will someone please see how high up this goes? *cough* Rumsfeld *ahem*.

[Dhalgren]

3. Granted that the whole chain of command is culpable, but these

"trigger-men" have to be brought to justice. There is no "following orders" defense for murdering unarmed prisoners; there wasn't any at Malmedy and there isn't any at Tikrit...

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. Getting the trigger men is good, but ultimately useless

Unless you can also get the capo and the don. Otherwise, they will just hire more triggermen.

[Dhalgren]

13. This is true.

With all of the reports, lately, about skinheads and gang members among our troops, working the streets of Iraq, I don't think the Bush fascists will have any trouble replacing their hit-men - over there or over here...

[htuttle]

16. Yes and no

If those trigger men think there's a good chance they'll be punished for committing war crimes, even if their superior told them to do it, they are going to be more likely to disobey the illegal orders.

If they know they won't be held accountable, they're a lot more likely to go ahead and do it.

[rodeodance]

5. whow--I do think he should withhold final judgment till the trial is over.

[Robbien]

11. If he held judgment, he would be the one of the few people in the world

to do so. Everyone is making up their minds about the situation and voicing their viewpoints.

[Dhalgren]

14. He's the prosecutor, it is his job to put before the court the

charges that are being brought and to give justifications for those charges. He is saying that the evidence will prove that these troops are guilty of war crimes - as the prosecutor, that's his job...

[gratuitous]

17. Uhm, you do know it's the prosecutor's job to prove the defendants guilty?

That said, he's supposed to paint his word picture of his estimation of the defendants, and then introduce his evidence to allow the triers of fact to reach that same conclusion. A prosecutor who withholds his final judgment until the trial is over is either never going to bring a case, or be very ineffectual in presenting his case, since he will never advocate for bringing back a guilty verdict.

[mainer]

10. He must be a terrorist sympathizer! He's criticizing soldiers!

the same as Jack Murtha.

[Supersedeas]

21. guess which topic is likely to get more discussion: Gibson or War Crimes

[Supersedeas]

12. but Al Gonzo doesn't know whatcha mean by "war crimes" -- it's sooooo

vague to Bush's lil crony.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Reuters: US troops shot detainees in cold blood, court told

US troops shot detainees in cold blood, court told
11 minutes ago

TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. soldiers stepped outside the law when they murdered three Iraqi detainees "in cold blood," a prosecutor told a U.S. military hearing on Friday.

"U.S. soldiers must follow the laws of war. That's what makes us better than the terrorists, what sets us apart from the thugs and the hitmen," said Captain Joseph Mackey, closing arguments for the prosecution of the four U.S. servicemen.

"These soldiers did just the opposite. They cut them loose and murdered them in cold blood," he said.

The hearing into the deaths on May 9 during a raid on a suspected insurgent camp on an island in the marshy fringe of Thar Thar Lake, southwest of Tikrit, will determine whether the four soldiers should be court-martialled for the killings.
(snip/...)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060804/ts_nm/iraq_usa_hearing_dc

[libodem]

18. The blood is on Bush's hands

as far as I'm concerned. These are the same jokers that will kill anyone who is not in a uniform as an enemy combatant. Just where are the terrorists going to get military uniforms to identify themselves, anyway? They have a million excuses to kill anyone and everyone in uniform or out. Kick the doors in and haul out any military aged male, torture and kill them. All these promises to rebuild the country, provide clean water and electricty, send the girls to school, keep the government non-religious, what bunk. We have kicked the hell out of a red ant hill as far as I'm concerned.

[Barrett808]

19. Why does Captain Mackey hate America?

Or is that smear too 2004?

[me b zola]

22. Wow. I'll repeat a loose quote from F Lee Baily

Former Marine and well known civilian crimial defense attorney has said that if he were charged with a crime but innocent he would want a military trial, but if he were guilty a military trial is the last place that he would want to be tried.

[Just Me]

23. We should adopt a "trickle UP" policy on these issues!!!!

AND WHEN THE HELL ARE THOSE WHO APPROVED SECRET PRISONS AND DETENTION/TORTURE AND BRAIN-WASHING GULAGS GOING TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE!?!?!?!?!?!

THOSE are the war criminals,...the ones in charge. When are THEY going to be held accountable for defrauding our nation, stealing from our people, abusing their power, breaching their oathes, violating the constitution, breaking the Geneva Convention, oppressing their own people?

When?