Chavez lashes out at Bush, US "imperialist monster"

[JackNewtown]

---But Chavez, who has repeatedly asserted that Washington is plotting to topple him, added, "if they invade our country, we will do what Vietnam has done... Resist and make them fail.

"We don't want that to happen," he said. "We want mutual respect, freedom, and being free like Vietnam. Other countries in the world want to be free."

In his address to the Vietnamese Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Hanoi, Chavez also attacked the United States by listing a series of their past military acts.

Chavez said "imperialists" were "pre-animal... Because they thought of dropping atomic bombs onto a city, and bombing Hanoi, dropping napalm on forests in Vietnam, killing innocent children.--

Full piece: http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?rep=2&aid=312903&sid=WOR

[William769]

1. One monster speaking about another one.

How quaint.

[cliss]

3. I think just ONE of these men

gets the title. I will let you guess which one.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

6. Can you point me to a reliable source that would make me think of

Chavez as a monster? The failed coup d'état. of 92? 14 Soldiers died there. less than 1% of the American soldiers that have died in Iraq under W. And the coup had a rational reason.

Is there another incident that hasn't been reported?

[redqueen]

10. aww i love that pic!

thanks for posting it! :D

[mom cat]

17. Yep! Definate proof of monsterhood!

Hugo rochs and is doing more to help keep my friends warm than Bush. Hugo has not invaded any other country and was freely elected. He is not a monster, but one of a new breed with an equalitarian vision.

[Peace Patriot]

19. Chavez participated in the coup as a young military man who was

disgusted with the oppressive and extremely corrupt rulers of Venezuela. He spent time in jail after the coup attempt, and THAT's where he became a hero to Venezuela's vast poor and neglected people. They loved him for that attempt! When he came out, he committed to constitutional government and politics, ran for president and won. Then a faction of the military, with Bushite and oil corporation backing, kidnapped Chavez and tried to remove him from office by violence. Tens of thousands of Venezuelans poured into the streets to demand the return of their elected president. They stopped the coup. (There is a great movie about this, called "The Revolution Will Not be Televised," by Irish filmmakers who happened to be in Venezuela when the coup occurred, and got to film much of the coup itself, as well as Chavez's return to office.) It was a critical moment in Venezuela's new democracy. And Chavez's reaction to it was extraordinarily mild. This is one of the reasons I have to laugh at the US corporate media's oft-repeated phrase about Chavez, that he is "increasingly authoritarian." (--always attributed to "his critics," never named.) If ever someone had reason to inflict strong retribution, it was Chavez, at those who tried to overthrow his popularly elected government. But he dismissed only a few, and called all the others in for long talks, where he determined that many had received disinformation (for instance, that he had resigned). This is Chavez's version of events, but I have read nothing to contradict it. Service in the Venezuelan military is very unlike the stereotype of the Latin American military that we get from Hollywood movies. Many poor people join the military to have a job, and for an education, and it's a fairly good system in which talent and leadership are rewarded. Chavez advanced very quickly in the military himself. Many in the military are sympathetic to the poor--because they are OF the poor--and to democratic government. Their role in society is not particularly militaristic and certainly not oppressive--more infrastructure and community help. The '02 coup attempt against Chavez--which only lasted two days, but which the Bush junta welcomed-- was truly just a few "bad eggs" in league with the oil elite, who later perpetrated a crippling oil professionals' strike that again nearly destroyed Venezuela's democracy. By the time they tried a "recall" election--with support of our tax dollars to Chavez's opposition--a move that greatly resembled the Enron/Schwarzenegger coup in California--Chavez had stabilized the economy and won the recall by 60% of the vote, in heavily monitored voting (the Carter Center and others). He is very popular in Venezuela. This is not to say he couldn't become a dictator. Anybody could. But there no sign of it. None. It is a complete fabrication of the Bush junta and its lapdog corporate press.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

36. Well since all we need are warm and fuzzy pictures

to show what type of guy he is.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

38. Both sides can do it

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Which country did Chavez invade?

Was it Iraq? No, that can't be right...

[JackNewtown]

13. Why is Chavez considered so bad?

I haven't followed the Chavez saga much until recently so I don't know about the history. Still, my instinct is to be skeptical. The same people and organs who are demonizing him are the same people who pushed the Iraq war, blindly support whatever Israel does, invaded Panama, Grenada, Vietnam, etc. You get my drift by now. ;)

[Peace Patriot]

16. I recommend www.venezuelanalysis.com. It's well-written, and a good

anti-dote to the crap that our war profiteering corporate news monopolies are shoveling out there. I've followed this story VERY closely, and I've been DUMBFOUNDED at the slanted news. I have burst out laughing at stories in the Washington Post, NYT, the WSJ and by AP. They are so blatant. From everything I can tell, Hugo Chavez is the epitome of what Thomas Jefferson hoped would happen in a democracy: That the best people will rise to the top.

In our stunted, extremely manipulated "democracy" in which only millionaires can run for Congress, and oiligarchies and the super-rich rule--as in the decrepit old monarchies of Europe and the East--the worst has risen to the top. With social mobility, opportunity, education and TRANSPARENT elections, the opposite happens. The people find the leader they need. Venezuela's democracy is newly born and very idealistic. It also has had the most heavily monitored elections in history. In addition, it needs to be said that Venezuela and Chavez are not alone, by any means, as peaceful, democratic, leftist revolutionaries who are pursuing a mixed model economy (socialism and capitalism, with a strong component of social justice), and national and regional self-determination. This is the trend throughout Latin America--in Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Bolivia, as well as Venezuela, with big movements in this direction in Peru, and closer to us in Mexico and Nicaragua. This is a huge unstoppable movement. As the first indigenous president of Bolivia, Evo Morales, has said, "The time of the people has come."

Chavez is a colorful personality, seems to love people, talks and jokes all the time, is a bit full of himself, and loves to poke Bush in the eye. Hard to fault him for that. And he has been absolutely demonized by western media, and by oil elite corporate-controlled media in his own country. But it doesn't matter much, since his support is very deep and widespread. The vast poor population of Venezuela--and I'm sure of the entire Andes region--who are mostly brown or indigenous (Chavez himself is black, indigenous and Spanish), and who have NEVER been served by government, are finally coming into their own. Poor Venezuelans are actually now benefiting from their oil wealth. This has partly been the long hard work of various groups--the Carter Center, the OAS, EU election monitoring groups and local civic groups--on honest and aboveboard elections. Majority rule can work miracles! It is a wonderful thing to see--and the most wonderful thing about it is that it is solid and real.

[JackNewtown]

30. Thanks, I'll check it out nt

[w4rma]

32. Venezuela owns and manages CITGO and also supplies all the oil

for CITGO. That is why Chavez is "so bad".

Imho, Chavez has run Venezuela *awesomely*. He's kept free speech (Big media tears Chavez up in Venezuela for everything and anything. Independant media loves him.). He's kept free elections (the well moneyed opposition is really ticked off at how popular he and his political party is though). Poverty has gone down. The gap between the wealthy and the poor has shrunk. The oil profits have gone to build the country's infrastructure rather than being pocketed by billionares (as used to be the case).

He's pretty much been bringing Venezuela up from a 3rd world or 2nd world country into a 1st world country on par with any European nation.

[stepnw1f]

14. as usual

[Peace Patriot]

18. To call Chavez a "monster" is monstrous--or, at the least, evidence of

vast ignorance and brainwashing. I recommend taking a break from our war profiteering corporate news monopolies. They are getting to you in ways that you don't realize.

[William769]

20. I could also say the same to you.

[High Plains]

24. Yes, you could, but you would be wrong.

Your post was just a cheap attempted Chavez bash.

[IntiRaymi]

26. what is monstruous about Chavez?

Explain yourself, please.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Funny how some of the U.S. rightwingers can get so wild and reckless

trying to smear a President who hasn't harmed anyone, while they rationalize and support the behavior of murderous assholes who have swept away the lives of many, many helpless people in a sea of blood and tears FOR NOTHING MORE THAN GREED, and lied about it in the process.

Right-wing morals just leave me sick. You'd think at some point their consciences would overtake them, but they apparently are good at hiding from them.

[GAPeace]

21. How many people has Chavez killed exactly?

I'd think you'd need to do some torturing or killing or raping to be a monster. All those things can be prescribed to what we are doing; what has Chavez done? Said mean things?

[killbotfactory]

23. Worse

he increased taxes on foriegn oil companies.

[liberalmuse]

28. Chavez is NOT a monster...

or a mass murderer, but Bush definitely is.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Dude, I can ALMOST forgive you calling Chavez a monster...

...but praising Windows in your avatar? UGH! That's beyond the pale.

[Psephos]

31. lol n/t

[Puglover]

34. I think that is supposed to be

some weird representation of the pride flag. He was posting swill over in the GLTB forum the other day. Pretty much like here. Bullshit with no substance.

[SpiralHawk]

2. Take that, you AWOL vacationing Chimp, you

Deserter. Oil profiteer. Pretzel nincompoop.

[last1standing]

4. I'd really like to be able to disagree with him.

but I can't. This administration has exhibited naked imperialism. Mind you, its not the imperialism of 19th century Great Britain, this is a imperialism with the proceeds from colonial conquests going straight into the coffers of the new royalty - the CEOs of multinational corporations.

[Vidar]

5. Tell it like it is, Hugo!

[samsingh]

8. i think Chavez has it right

[Gidney N Cloyd]

9. Normally I get a chuckle out of Chavez tweeking *'s nose but

right about now would be a good time for all world leaders to start acting like sober, engaged statesmen.

[redqueen]

11. I doubt most world leaders who are concerned by the bush regime's tactics

would call what he's doing "tweaking (the idiot's) nose".

[Rageneau]

12. I wish Chavez was OUR president. He's a better man than Bush in all ways.

[MasonJar]

15. He has every right to be outraged and to stay that way. Just like

our charming government(?) got rid of the duly elected president of Haiti...that's as in actually elected, not selected, and tried to do the same to Chavez i would be surprised if Chavez didn't take every opportunity to put Bush down. It is a sort of protection for him, keeping the neo-cons at bay. Hey, I say something bad about Bush every oppotunity I get.

[clixtox]

25. I am in Vietnam..

and reading the "official" English language daily newspaper, THE VIET NAM NEWS for August 2nd where there is no mention of Hugo's provocative, albeit accurate, reprise of the USA's historical penchant for egregious war crimes and other wholesale violence. VN is very careful about how they portray the USA in the "official" state-owned media as they adjust their whole economy, their trade and labor laws and other practices hoping to be included in the WTO later this year.

On the front page is a small picture of Chavez meeting with a living hero of the "American War", General Vo Nguyen Giap (born 1912!) and Giap's family. The story continues on Pg.16 with the Chamber of Commerce and Industry speech which completely excludes the historical remarks but does discuss more mundane items relating to trade and other cooperation between the two countries and regions.

[IntiRaymi]

27. General Giap is still alive?!

[missTheBigDog]

33. It's amazing how

The Republican Spin Machine (aka Fox News) brainwashes the public about this man. Everywhere you turn you read or hear people taking about him being evil and "how needs to be assassinated". It's amazing. I almost bought into it before reading this.

[FormerDem06]

35. I don't think he needs to be killed...

Heaven's no, but I do think he needs to be careful. He came in on auspices of freedom and he initially did some good things to clean up a pretty darn corrupt country, but now he's starting doing a few things that in my opinion are a little off base.

Recently, he got frustrated because the courts were striking down some of the things he was doing so he just got his party to expand the Supreme court by 12 justices (from 20) and then he inimidated 5 current justices into retirement (yeah there is no proof, but there was a law passed that he -- through his party's control of the legislature)could fire justices for decisions). He then rammed 17 replacement judges and 17 alternates through a vote in their legislature, and he didn't even reveal who he was going to appoint until the moment they voted.

Whatever you say about the US, we still do have some forms of checks and balances. Bush couldn't just go off half cocked and add six justices to the courts, much less keep the appointments secret until the very last minute. It wouldn't happen in this country.

[Bridget Burke]

39. "It wouldn't happen in this country"?

A draft Bush administration plan for special military courts seeks to expand the reach and authority of such "commissions" to include trials, for the first time, of people who are not members of al-Qaeda or the Taliban and are not directly involved in acts of international terrorism, according to officials familiar with the proposal.

The plan, which would replace a military trial system ruled illegal by the Supreme Court in June, would also allow the secretary of defense to add crimes at will to those under the military court's jurisdiction. The two provisions would be likely to put more individuals than previously expected before military juries, officials and independent experts said.

The draft proposed legislation, set to be discussed at two Senate hearings today, is controversial inside and outside the administration because defendants would be denied many protections guaranteed by the civilian and traditional military criminal justice systems.

Under the proposed procedures, defendants would lack rights to confront accusers, exclude hearsay accusations, or bar evidence obtained through rough or coercive interrogations. They would not be guaranteed a public or speedy trial and would lack the right to choose their military counsel, who in turn would not be guaranteed equal access to evidence held by prosecutors....

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2431768

How NICE of you to say that you don't want Chavez killed--just yet. Your President (behind the legal travesty in the above paragraphs) already tried to overthrow him. It didn't work.

(By the way--why are you a Former Democrat?)

[FormerDem06]

45. I didn't say "just yet"

I don't advocate the killing of anyone...period. I just said that if he wants to uphold the values he came into office on he needs to be careful...that's all.

My president? Oh Lord I wouldn't claim that sack of crap either.

I am a former Dem because the Dem's in my state are ruining the darn state....NC. The speaker of the house, a dem is buying off votes left and right with illegal blank check campaign contributions and the people who received them are going through the court system now.

I cannot stand good 'ol boy, buy em off politics and lately that's how the Dems in North Carolina have been acting. AND we have such a restrictive ballot law that no other parties can get on the ballot. Right now, I'm working with a coalition of the Green Party and the Libertarians to change that.

SO I guess I'd have to be qualified as a man without a party.

[w4rma]

40. FDR tried to do the same thing. He was our longest serving President.

And the courts were filled up with right-wing toadies who kept ruling that FDR's (and the Democratic Congress's) laws were "unconstitutional" even when they weren't.

It's too bad FDR didn't succeed. Things probably wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are now if he wasn't stopped by Democrats in Congress from expanding the U.S. Supreme Court.

[1932]

42. The law was passed by the legislature in 2004, before Chavez's party

had an overwhelming majority, and it expanded the court from 20 to 32.

And it simply reflects that Venezuela doesn't want its supreme court to be an anchor to the past.

And everything they've done with the Supreme Court is allowed by the constitution that the constituent assembly passed.

Here's a good article on this:

It is difficult to identify to what extent the opposition’s resistance to the Supreme Court law is born of a real fear of Venezuela becoming a “constitutional dictatorship” and to what extent it comes from protecting their “turf.” Surely most opposition supporters no longer distinguish between protecting opposition territory and protecting Venezuela’s democracy because in their minds, the opposition has become synonymous with democracy and Chavez and his supporters synonymous with dictatorship.

What the opposition does not seem to realize is that government supporters see it exactly the other way around. To Chavistas, the opposition is synonymous with dictatorship and the government with democracy. Every effort of the opposition to prevent government policies and laws from being implemented are thus seen as turf protection and not as a genuine concern for democracy. As a result, once again, the more the opposition resists government policies, the more the government and its supporters feel justified in implementing them.

...

However, it is never that simple. The fact is, Chavez—the anti-democrat and caudillo according to those who oppose him—has acted in a less repressive manner than any Venezuelan president before him. Previously the National Guard would use real bullets in order to control a rowdy demonstration, now they don’t. Previously journalists who insulted the president would either be censored or face prison, now they don’t. Previously citizens who wanted to recall elected representatives had no recourse, now they do. Previously people who live in the poor neighborhoods, in the barrios, had no voice in the mass media whatsoever, now they do. Previously the poor had no hope of ever acquiring title to their home or to a plot of land, now they do. Previously any education at all was beyond the reach of the poor,<5> now most poor Venezuelans are involved in one free education program or another.

...

So the question of whether Venezuela is a dictatorship or a democracy is actually a misleading question, one which merely feeds into the dichotomous vicious cycle of polarization and mutual distrust. Rather, what observers should examine is whether there has been progress towards more democracy in Venezuela. Posed this way, the answer is, I believe, an unequivocal yes, but that there still is a very long way to go.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5612

[Snivi Yllom]

37. Does Chavez actually spend time running Venezuela in btwn bashing the US?

Hugo, sit down and shut up already.

[Bridget Burke]

41. Chavez is currently touring the world.

Unlike Chimpie, he doesn't get all fretful & grouchy when he can't sleep in his own bed. He's also not hated worldwide.

How much time does Bush spend "running" our country?

[Snivi Yllom]

47. yes, touring with psychos like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2433047&mesg_id=2433047

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. In a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad also called for an immediate halt to fighting in Lebanon between Israel and the Iranian-backed militant group Hezbollah.

"Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," he said.

Ahmadinejad, who has drawn international condemnation with previous calls for Israel to be wiped off the map, said the Middle East would be better off "without the existence of the Zionist regime."

Israel "is an illegitimate regime, there is no legal basis for its existence," he said.

[Xenotime]

43. Evil know evil

[Judi Lynn]

44. You're saying anyone who realizes how vicious Bush is is also vicious?

What sense does that make?

[Bacchus39]

46. Chavez's buddy advocates the destruction of Israel

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. In a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad also called for an immediate halt to fighting in Lebanon between Israel and the Iranian-backed militant group Hezbollah.

ADVERTISEMENT

"Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," he said.

Ahmadinejad, who has drawn international condemnation with previous calls for Israel to be wiped off the map, said the Middle East would be better off "without the existence of the Zionist regime."

Israel "is an illegitimate regime, there is no legal basis for its existence," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_israel;_ylt=Ammgf5qUf_Jp.8peCWEwZMlvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-