Israel: Iran Aided Hezbollah In Attack

[norml]

Jul 15, 2006 8:17 am US/Eastern

Israel: Iran Aided Hezbollah In Attack

Official Says Iran Behind Warship Attack; Israel Fearful Of Tel Aviv Hit


(CBS News) JERUSALEM A senior Israeli intelligence official said Saturday that Iranian troops helped Hezbollah fire the missile that damaged an Israeli warship off the Lebanese coast the night before.

One sailor was killed and three remain missing after the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Robert Berger in Jerusalem.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said about 100 Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and helped fire the Iranian-made, radar-guided C-102 at the ship that killed one and left three missing.

Initially, it was thought that Hezbollah used a drone to attack the ship. The Israeli intelligence official did say that Hezbollah does have drones and warned that they are more accurate than missiles.

"We can confirm that it was hit by an Iranian-made missile launched by Hezbollah. We see this as very profound fingerprint of Iranian involvement in Hezbollah," Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan said in an interview with The Associated Press.


snip


http://cbs4.com/topstories/topstories_story_196081831.html

[Kagemusha]

1. Let's say this speculation is correct. Then what?

War with Iran?

Hizbollah wouldn't have military grade drones on its own so, no matter how you slice it, Iran's help is the likely source. Note that the Israeli ship was participating in a naval blockade...

[lumpy]

22. First reports said it was a missile.

What is the truth? Who knows. Hard to get the truth in this high tech communicatio age, but some things like propaganda never change. Guess that ship has no high tech communications equipment available.

[High Plains]

28. The Israeli ship was bombarding Beirut.

[Poppyseedman]

2. I'm shocked.

Why would Iran meddle in the middle of a conflict that has nothing to do with?

Peace loving Iran that wants to build nuclear weapons for its energy needs and not for the destruction of Israel.

Truly, I'm shocked. If only bush had not pushed Iran into a corner, Hezbollah would be home darning socks instead of launching Iranian made missiles into northern Israel

[VLAD THE AGITATOR]

3. REALLY???????????

All this about Iranian rockets/missiles--if it is true and some intel dude said was--why did they allow it to be fired? And all these Iranian rockets being fired into Israel--is their a stamp on a fragment that says 'Made in Iran"?

And who makes the ordinance being used to kill civilians in Lebanon and Gaza?

[cali]

4. I think you're missing the larger point(s)

Either it's true, and Iran is involved directly, or it's not true and Israel is trying to blame Iran in order to justify future actions. In either case, it amounts to a likely escalation of an already bad situation.

[Laotra]

6. If true

Iran is not involved anymore directly than US.

[magellan]

10. Tell it, Laotra!

And let me take this opportunity to welcome you to DU. :hi:

[Kagemusha]

24. I think your point's a very very good one.

Just wondering where it'll all lead. That's the bottom line.

[Laotra]

25. Nothing much

Just another twist in the unfolding systemic crisis of the "New World Order" and the fall of the Empire.

[Zhade]

38. Exactly!

The hypocrisy on this issue is stunning - Israel can kill Lebanese civilians with OUR weapons, but if (IF) Iranian-made rockets are killing Israel civilians, watch out, that's WRONG!

Such a bullshit double-standard!

(OH, and welcome to DU, we'll watch the empire fall together!)

[bigluckyfeet]

46. Israel I is Trying to Drag Iran Into the War

and the monkey is salivating at the thought.This is also good for the 2006 election for the repukes.

[what the]

47. Iran is trying to drag Iran into War

Hezbollah is a large state within a state. They are funded by Iran, supplied with weapons by Iran, and do the bidding of Iran. Iran has called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

Hezbollah has 10,000 rockets ready to fire at Israel and they are using them now. They have been preparing for conflict with Israel for years.

Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon in 2000. The attack by Hezbollah is their reward. The large response by Israel makes sense if you see this not as retaliation against a handful of terrorists, but the beginning of a campaign against a large terrorist infrastructure that has been under construction for years. The roots go back to Syria and Iran; that is not a secret by any means. The Iranians don't care if everybody knows that an Iranian missile crewed by Iranian revolutionary guards was fired into an Israeli ship. They think it's something to be proud of.

[Laotra]

51. Huh?

"Iran is trying to drag Iran into War"

I guess you would like to reformulate that. I won't go into all misconseptions and double standards in your post, but just this comment: do you really think that the shia in southern lebanon are too stupid or otherwise mentally challenged, so they cannot fight against foreign occupiers by their own initiative?

[cali]

59. Iran's intent

is certainly debatable, but H'zbollah is indeed financed by Iraq, and has strong ties with that country. This is not a secret, and there's lots of information available on those ties. They're longstanding and it far precedes the current mess. Where did you think H'zbollah got funding from?

When you accuse someone of misconceptions and double standards and then loftily proclaim that you won't go into exposing those flaes, you are engaged in a dishonest practice known as an ad hominem attack. You've flung an insult instead of actually pointing out the fallacies in another's argument.

[Laotra]

60. Sorry

I didn't notice that the line quoted was a response to a previous similar line and though it was slight of hand.

I'm aware of close ties between Hezbollah and Iran, but that does not make Hezbollah a proxy. Capturing Israeli soldiers for trading prisoners has been a long time objective of Hezbollah, openly declared.

[greccogirl]

57. You are absolutely correct.

Today Iran said it will provide longer range missles to Hezbulloh, they are doing everything they can it would seem for their own destruction.

[Poppyseedman]

5. Hezbollah is funded by Iran

That is a known fact. So it should be no surprise Hezbollah have Iranian missiles.

"And who makes the ordinance being used to kill civilians in Lebanon and Gaza?"

The concept of moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas or Hezbollah is such a bogus, specious argument it is not even worthy of a comment

"As much as you love life, the Muslim loves death and martyrdom."

Quote by Chief Palestinian Authority cleric Sheikh Ikrimeh Sabri, who is the spiritual leader of Islam's third holiest mosque

http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/rn/2002-03/03rn42.htm

Informative link if you desire to learn something.

[Trajan]

13. Some concepts of equivalence are valid ....

Israel regularly crosses internationally-recognized borders to conduct 'military' operations in civilian areas ..... Arabs regularly cross internationally-recognized borders to conduct 'Terrorist' operations in civilian areas ....

Frankly, I personally see no reason to make great distinctions between bombings executed by either side ..... Strafing neighborhoods with fighter jets can hardly be considered 'moral' ... The 'indiscriminate killing' committed by a 'suicide bomber' is undoubtedly immoral, but the loosing of deadly missiles from Israeli aircraft in the direction of known concentrations of innocent human beings, knowing full well that those innocents can be killed by those weapons, is hardly a claim to a moral high ground ....

The well known propensity of Israeli war supporters to demonize entire populations of arabs as a pretext to attacking them indiscriminately is again on display .... Yet most of those on the receiving end of Israeli missles in Lebanon have never ever done a single thing to ANY jew, anywhere ..... at anytime ....

But see ? .. it's ok to kill them, because 'as much as they love life, they are muslim and love death and martyrdom' ....

The assertion that Israeli supporters can claim a 'higher' moral basis for their killing of innocents is simply absurd .....

If one squeezes the trigger, knowing it can result in the death of innocent children, mothers, grandparents, and other UNinvolved 'muslims', then that act is an immoral act .... no more or less 'moral' than ANYONE who would INDISCRIMINATELY kill innocent human beings ....

STOP killing Arabs and Muslims, as Arabs should stop killing Israelis and Jews ....

There is no higher moral plane when innocents are being killed ..... ALL such actions are lowly and brutish ....

[Poppyseedman]

14. Answer this simple question

If Israel was left alone to live in peace and harmony, within a two state solution, how many non - Israel / Jewish people would be attacked or killed???

I believe the answer would be none.

Reverse the situation and you have your moral equivalence resolved

[nashville_brook]

19. *you believe* the answer is "none" -- a leap of faith

because the evidence would suggest otherwise.

[Poppyseedman]

29. Yes that may be a leap of faith

but the reverse correlation is a fact written in blood by Israel's enemies.

Drive the Jew into the sea cannot be more clear

[lumpy]

23. Evidently Israel doesn't want harmony.

For too many years they have been fighting for land that they consider to be their holy right. Isn't that what it is all about? They have crushed, killed and driven off people who feel they have the right to land that was occupied by their ancestors.

[Poppyseedman]

33. Please pay attention to real world events. Israel wants harmony

Israel is operating under a plan called in various forms "land for peace" for many years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_for_peace

[lumpy]

55. Some of us here pay attention

to what is actually happening in the area. Israel has allowed and aided Jewish squatters to form enclaves in Palestinian territory, bulldozed orchards/livelyhood, holds onto gteen belt/water land and have used every method imaginable to subjugate the Paelistine people essentially cutting them off from becoming a separate state. It is all about wanting land that has been occupied by Palestinians to be included in geater Israel. This greedy battle has been going on for too damn many years.
The plan for peace for 'many years' hasn't worked.

[Boneman]

17. Excellent!

.

[springhill]

26. You said it so well.........

The same thing I am thinking but have not been able to put into words.

[Poppyseedman]

30. It takes two to agree. Your well stated post falls apart at that dilemma

"STOP killing Arabs and Muslims, as Arabs should stop killing Israelis and Jews ...."

I seriously doubt radical Muslim Arabs will not stop killing Jews as it is their stated resolve to eliminate them from the land. As for the Jews, you cannot say the same.

[Zhade]

40. It's inherently racist. The argument values Jewish life over Arab life.

It's morally repugnant, quite frankly.

[GuillermoX71]

61. To the Jihadist

there isn't any distinction between a "Military" area or a "civilian" area.

Hamas operates entirely within civilian areas, on purpose.

Hamas "militants" constantly surround themselves with women and children.

[High Plains]

21. Israel is funded by the US. It is no surprise American-made

bombs are falling on Lebanon.

Yes, the moral equivalence argument is bogus. There is no comparison between a limited attack on a military patrol and the systematic destruction of a county.

I hope the people of Haifa and the rest of northern Israel are enjoying the war their leaders brought them.

[Zhade]

39. Israel is funded by the U.S.

So what's your point, other than "the rightwing Israeli government can get a pass on killing way more civilians than Hezbollah has" and more bigoted anti-Muslim bullshit (as if one Imam can speak for every single Muslim, which you know isn't true)?

[daleo]

42. This is just propaganda by a cleric

"As much as you love life, the Muslim loves death and martyrdom."

It means as much as the pope saying "as much as you love life, Catholics love pain and suffering". Just because a cleric says something, doesn't mean it's true.

[enigmacat]

53. And Israel is funded by the United States

"Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person. This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, a consulting economist in Washington. For decades, his analyses of the Middle East scene have made him a frequent thorn in the side of the Israel lobby. For the first time in many years, Mr. Stauffer has tallied the total cost to the US of its backing of Israel in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians. So far, he figures, the bill adds up to more than twice the cost of the Vietnam War."

from a 2002 article: http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

... If YOU desire to learn something.

[Toots]

8. No Bush* says Iran wants to build nuclear weapons, no one else says that

The people that are charged with oversight on nuclear issues do not say that. Only you and the right wingers say that. When was the last time Iran attacked another country unprovoked? When was the last time the US did. What country used Atomic weapons on civilian targets?

[Poppyseedman]

9. OK, if you say so

Please provide link for your assertion that only bush says that

Personally, I don't pay much attention to what this administration says about Iran. It's half BS and half delusional.

I'm a lot more interested what Admenajad says about Israel. He says Israel should no longer exist.

[AnOhioan]

31. And Admenajad is full of BS and delusional....

Just like the chimp. His statements are meant for the consumption of his base in Iran....just like the chimps are meant for his base here in the US.

You discount georgie's statements as nonsense. Is it that hard to do the same with Admenajad? Or does that interfere with your entire premise?

[megatherium]

50. When was the last time Iran/Hezbollah attacked a country unprovoked?

How about 1994, when terrorists killed 85 Argentine Jews in Buenos Aires, by bombing a Jewish cultural center. The perpetrators are believed to have been Iranian supported Hezbollah terrorists.

Also, when the US was part of a peace-keeping mission in Lebanon in 1983, Hezbollah bombed our Marine barracks, killing 241 Americans. A similar attack was mounted against the French contingent of the peace-keeping force, killing 58; in retaliation, the French attacked the Iranian revolutionary guard in the Bekka valley of Lebanon. This was six months after they killed 63 Americans in the bombing of the US Embassy in Beirut.

[Toots]

56. That is like saying whenever the Klan does something it is the Republicans

doing it. Not the same thing. Iran has not attacked anyone.

[megatherium]

58. Hezbollah is a proxy for Iran. Everyone knows it. nt

[rayofreason]

7. Iran is involved...

...and Iran is the problem. The missile that hit Haifa a couple of days ago has been tentatively identified as a Fajr-5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%27s_missile_forces

It certainly was not a katyusha, which does not have the range to hit Haifa. The Iranians had to have provided technical assistance to Hizbullah, and may have been the guys who actually fired it. Now this report about an anti-ship missile, which also would likely have been operated by the Iranians.

Iran has been talking for a while about wiping Israel out, and now it is deploying theater-range missiles in Lebanon and participating, either tacitly or actively, in launching those missiles against Israel. Those missiles are also capable of being armed with non-conventional warheads, and so pose an existential threat to Israel.

Iran has precipitated a bad situation provoked by Hamas into a major crisis that threatens to expand into a regional war. But that is probably what Ahmadinejad wants in order to catalyze the return of the hidden Imam. Somehow I don't think that the Apocalypse will turn out the way Ahmadinejad believes, with the emergence of the hidden 12th Imam as Allah's agent to put things to right and lead the world-wide triumph of Islam in the conflict. It will just turn out with a lot of dead people.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

11. What route does Iran use to supple weapons and men to leboneon or Syria?

Their seems to been some significant logistics difficulties in supplying this conflict for Iran?



edited for content.

[rayofreason]

16. Indeed...

...this is a major problem. Iran can send resupplies by air (hence the bombing of the airport) or by a long sea route (hence the attack on an Israeli naval vessel), or via allied Syria (hence the bombing of the road to Damascus).

Iran has bitten off far more than it can chew and Hizbullah will end up paying the bulk of the consequences.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

54. How can they go by air without violating Iraqi (US) or Turkish airspace?

For that matter how could Iran help defend Syria against Israel without encountering these same limiting geo-political barriers?

[MGD]

12. It's just so hard to believe

that a group of reasonable and rational people such as the Iranians could somehow be involved in any of this middle-eastern madness.

[Zhade]

41. The Iranian people by and large ARE as you described.

Let's not conflate the dictatorship with the subjugated masses, k?

[bilgewaterbill]

49. Unfortunately, it's not the subjugated masses

that have the weapons. Just like here, the nuts are in charge of the asylum.

[MrPrax]

15. I'll wait until

there is the type of 'hard evidence' that someone like Robert Fisk is likely to find:

Death in Bethlehem, made in America
from 15 April 2001

Lockheed Martin of Florida and the Federal Laboratories of Pennsylvania have made quite a contribution to life in the municipality of Bethlehem. Or, in the case of Lockheed, death. Pieces of the US manufacturer's Hellfire air-to-ground missile lie in the local civil defence headquarters in Bethlehem less than two months after it exploded in 18-year-old Osama Khorabi's living room, killing him instantly. The missile engine, fuel pipe and shreds of the wiring system have been sorted into plastic bags by ambulance drivers and paramedics, alongside shrapnel from dozens of US-made fuses for shells fired by Israeli tanks into the Christian village of Beit Jalla.

sraeli troops also regularly fire American-made CS gas rounds at Palestinians in Bethlehem itself. Palestinians claim the gas has caused serious breathing difficulties among children after the rounds were fired at stone-throwing youths near Rachel's tomb. The cartridges and gas canisters are labelled "Federal Laboratories, Saltsburg, Pennsylvania 15681" and are stated on the metal to be "long range projectiles 150 yards". The rounds, show the US manufacturers' instructions on the side, contain "tear gas which is highly irritating to eyes, nose, skin and respiratory system". And continue: "If exposed, do not rub eyes, seek medical assistance immediately."

The Israeli tank crews routinely send shells into Beit Jalla when Palestinian gunmen fire Russian-made Kalashnikov rifles from the village at the neighbouring Jewish settlement of Gilo ­ itself illegally built on land belonging to the people of Beit Jalla ­ and most of these rounds have US fuses. All are coded: "FUZE P18D M549ACO914H014-014" (in some cases the last digit reads "5"). One of these shells killed Dr Harald Fischer, a German citizen living in Beit Jalla, last November. But the name of the firm making these fuses is not included in the code.

Lockheed has already been implicated in the massacre of four children and two women in Lebanon when an Israeli Apache helicopter, made by Lockheed, fired a Lockheed-made Hellfire 1 missile into an ambulance in southern Lebanon in 1996. Computer plates from the air-to-ground rocket ­ whose advertising logo read: "All For One and One For All"­ were subsequently taken to the US by the Independent on Sunday and identified as a Hellfire, by Boeing executives who were then joint-makers of the missile.

Fisk -- another stroll down memory lane

[MGD]

18. What does this have to do with Iran supplying Hezbullah guerillas?

What are you trying to imply exactly?

[MrPrax]

20. Would seem obvious?

It's called proof...???

In this story there is abundant PROOF that the US is supplying weapons to Israel that kill civillians...the posted story has no PROOF...but what is does have are fanatics who offer no PROOF of their claims.

Oh and a little bit better PROOF than when I saw this same 'show' the first time...

EXCLUSIVE!!!!

: Iraq Weapons -- Made in Iran?

March 6, 2006 — U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ABC News that they have caught shipments of deadly new bombs at the Iran-Iraq border.

They are a very nasty piece of business, capable of penetrating U.S. troops' strongest armor.

What the United States says links them to Iran are tell-tale manufacturing signatures — certain types of machine-shop welds and material indicating they are built by the same bomb factory.

"The signature is the same because they are exactly the same in production," says explosives expert Kevin Barry. "So it's the same make and model."

...

"I think the evidence is strong that the Iranian government is making these IEDs, and the Iranian government is sending them across the border and they are killing U.S. troops once they get there," says Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism chief and an ABC News consultant. "I think it's very hard to escape the conclusion that, in all probability, the Iranian government is knowingly killing U.S. troops."

ABC News

LOL...

Besides, why can't allies help their friend in time of war? ;-)

In the posted story you have the IDF pretty sure that it was a 'drone' yesterday, but NOW is pretty sure it was Iranians with Iranian-made, radar-guided C-102!!

I guess accidently hitting their own ship is out of the question (like Hezbullah accidently hit an Egyptian ship) or Hezbullah might have caught them asleep with a lucky conventional rocket or if I recall (no I am not going to get the link) Israel at one time was afraid of 'terror teams' snorkling along like Navy Seals or like the USS Cole...a bunch of guys in a dingy and a bomb.

Nope...it was Iranian regulars with Iranian missiles using Iranian radar which the Israelis ONLY now have intel on...?

But it was 'pretty sure' the Iranians this time with Iranian radar -- not Syria because Syria is not part of the axis of evil this year and NO none of the material could have be pilfered from the Iraq war through the various weapons bazaars there...nope...it was Iranians!!!

[MGD]

35. Nobody has ever denied that America sells weapons to Israel

It seems that this info is mostly meaningful to someone who desires to somehow portray America and Israel as the villains in this drama. I suppose I can understand such a desire in light of the current administration's shortcomings but I don't subscribe to it personaly. I consider Israel, given the present state of reality, to be, among other things, necessary and useful for reasons too complex to describe concisely. This belief has nothing to do with political inclinations. I swear, I'm still quite liberal in matters of American domestic policies.

[Zhade]

43. But no one here is saying Israel is 'unnecessary' or 'useless', either.

The point about U.S. funding is to underline that killing of innocents is being done with weapons from here. How can we claim moral high ground and accuse Hezbollah of using Iranian-made weapons (if that's even true; still waiting for evidence, since we KNOW the administration outright lies - see Iraq War - and the Israeli government has a motivation to lie) with innocent blood on our own hands (or checkbooks)?

It's a double-standard to blame Iran and not us. Who can say that our government didn't okay the wildly overreactive retaliation Israel is engaged in? There's as much evidence right now for that theory as for the "Iran ordered this" theory (which is to say, no evidence at all).

We got lured. tricked, pushed, pulled, and lied into the current clusterfuck in Iraq. Let's be vigilant and NOT let that happen with Iran, please!

[Selatius]

45. I don't think Israel can escape all the blame here

On June 24th IDF forces invaded Gaza and abducted two people they claim were members of Hamas even though Gaza was supposedly evacuated of all IDF forces. They were a doctor and his brother. Nobody knows their fate.

The next day we know very well what happened. Hamas abducted the IDF soldier Gilad Shalit. Everybody knows this, but few know about the small team of IDF troops who invaded on the 24th in the Gaza Strip to kidnap people.

Many analyists would say the reason Hezbollah abducted two IDF soldiers was to take pressure off of Gaza further south. Certainly, it was a stupid act as now Lebanese civilians are dead, and most of Lebanon's population does not support Hezbollah, but now all of Lebanon has been blockaded and has its roads, bridges, and the airport reduced to rubble.

[IndianaGreen]

27. The same people that wanted the US to attack Iraq, now want us to attack

Iran and Syria.

Let's not fall for this crap again! We have 2,547 dead GIs as of today, all thanks to the pro-Iraq war propagandists in AIPAC, Israel, and the Christian Right. Let's ignore their propaganda and remain resolute in our efforts to bring all US troops home from the Middle East.

War solves nothing!

[Zhade]

44. It's patently obvious that is the case.

And I am seeing long-term DUers going stark-raving frothing-mouth mad at the idea (NOT PROVEN!) that somehow Iran is behind this.

People, STOP AND THINK!! Don't get suckered into another bullshit war - we can't do THREE WARS AT ONCE! That way lies madness!

[Joe Bacon]

62. Three?

Don't forget Venezuela, that makes 4

Don't forget Cuba, that makes 5

Don't forget North Korea, that will be 6

Folks, you're witnessing the collapse of the United States.

[joe_shmoe]

**PETITION AGAINST MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAN**

Attack on Iran = WWIII and the collapse of the US. This madness must stop.

It is with grave concern that we observe the growing threat of a new U.S. war--this time against the people of Iran.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn /


thanks,
J-shmoe

[joe_shmoe]

32. **PETITION AGAINST MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAN**

Attack on Iran = WWIII and the collapse of the US. This madness must stop.

It is with grave concern that we observe the growing threat of a new U.S. war--this time against the people of Iran.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn /


thanks,
J-shmoe

[IndianaGreen]

34. Israel wants America to go to war in Iran as it did in Iraq

Perhaps the good folks at Iraq Coalition Casualty Count (http://icasualties.org/oif/) will set up a mirror site for the wars that Israel wants the US to start against Syria and Iran.

[MGD]

36. Israel wants what America wants it to want.

[Zhade]

37. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they did.

Because the Iranian government LIKES attention like this when it's already being threatened with everything from sanctions to bombing.

Because, of course, the Iranian government is suicial.

(In other words: how dumb do they think we are to fall for this self-interested BULLSHIT?)

[Clarkie1]

48. Probably true. nt

[Name removed]

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