Hezbollah rams Israeli warship with unmanned aircraft

[tjwash]

Full story here

Israel destroys leader's home
By Hamza Hendawi
ASSOCIATED PRESS

4:03 p.m. July 14, 2006

BEIRUT, Lebanon – Hezbollah rammed an Israeli warship with an unmanned aircraft rigged with explosives Friday, setting it ablaze after Israeli warplanes smashed Lebanon's links to the world one by one and destroyed the headquarters of the Islamic guerrilla group's leader.

The attack on the warship off Beirut's Mediterranean coast was the most dramatic incident on a violent day in the conflict that erupted suddenly Wednesday and appeared to be careening out of control despite pleas from world leaders for restraint on both sides.

“You wanted an open war and we are ready for an open war,” Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said in a taped statement. He vowed to strike even deeper into Israel with rockets.

Israel again bombarded Lebanon's airport and main roads in the most intensive offensive against the country in 24 years. For the first time it struck the crowded Shiite neighborhood of south Beirut around Hezbollah's headquarters, toppling overpasses and sheering facades off apartment buildings. Concrete from balconies smashed into parked cars, and car alarms set off by the blasts blared for hours.

The toll in three days of clashes rose to 73 killed in Lebanon and at least 12 Israelis, as international alarm grew over the fighting and oil prices rose to above $78 a barrel. The U.N. Security Council held an emergency session on the violence, and Lebanon accused Israel of launching “a widespread barbaric aggression.”

[robinlynne]

1. I wonder how hezbollah came upon an unmanned aircraft?

Aren't we the only country who makes those?

[Drum]

3. My first thought as well...

my next was: How widely is "unmanned aircraft" defined?

It can't be too crude, can it?

[robinlynne]

4. I read the same thing in another article which called it an unmanned drone

[Kagemusha]

6. Not by a longshot! Lots of countries make them.

Israel is among them. The technology's seen wide dissemination among serious militaries in recent years because of how useful the US has shown them to be (potentially). Syria has major economic problems and is loathe to be directly linked to stuff like this (it's linked enough as it is) so, Iran's the likely source of the drone, or at least the know-how behind it. Keep in mind that a remote controlled airplane is just a very small unmanned aircraft.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. oh come on. they existed in 1943, with no computer technology.

it is SIMPLE to make anything that flies on its own, do what you want. Too simple, really. Think about the V-1. It was so rudimentary, that it took (what became) NASA 11 years to figure out the simple method of "programming" a controlled flight.

Considering just when Kitty Hawk took place, WWII was just a quick step away.
It is the supreme face of arrogance when one thinks that his country's technology is so superior, that it becomes invincible to any attack.
Today's Alaskan Anti-Missile Missile program is nothing more than a waste-filled, corrupt, ineffective, unusable and hillarious example of a Maginot Line. B ut with more fraud and corruption, and of course, payoffs.
Much more of our defense systems are no better. Pres. Ike's words were never truer than today.
unfortunately, our dem leaders have been castrated and muted. They have no spine left, either. The obvious truths are considered unmentionable within the bloatway.

[BrotherBuzz]

10. Radio shack?

[Dancing_Dave]

15. Good answer!

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. Isn't the US the only country that has the satellites to steer them too?

I support neither side in the middle east, but the whole scenario stinks of a Pentagon black ops mission.



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[WoodrowFan]

13. yep, those Arabs are too stupid to use an unmanned aircraft

yep, those Arabs are too stupid to use an unmanned aircraft.

Thought I'd make your real meaning clear since GPS devices are prety common and cheap.


bye bye

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. You project your own thoughts.

Very revealing and very Jungian. Your skills at mind reading aren't at all competent. GPS devices are common, but remotely flyable drones are not. Of course, you know that, so one wonders why the attempt at tarring.

[w4rma]

52. Jeeze, anyone with amature knowledge of electronics could build that

with a few simple ready made parts from a consumer electronics store. A video camera or two to look out the window and look at the gauges. And re-route the most needed controls through a radio controled switchbox.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

56. Question should be asked if...

the U.S. is currently aiding the Israeli's with Sat imagery, use of command centers, intelligence, etc. The American people should be informed if they are an active role in desctruction of Lebanon. The inactive role is well known, American F16's, bombs, money, training, drones, Patriot Missile batteries, etc.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

68. My guess:

The US probably launched satellite(s) for Israel years ago.

[PansophicOne]

27. I doubt it,,

I don't see any reason why it would be a US only technology. We're not talking about nuclear or stealth technology here. An electronics and aeronautics hobbyist could probably whip up their own unmanned drone if they wanted to. Not to mention I think Iran even said they had those. If the story being told is true then it would make sense, although I couldn't imagine the things being too advanced if they were willing to kamikaze them.

[Marie26]

28. Iran. nt

[Zynx]

29. At least one person in the organization has an engineering background.

Hezbollah isn't exactly bush league.

[hack89]

44. Here are reports from 2005 (with pictures)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477528/

In the north, on the border with Lebanon, Hezbollah have twice violated Israel's airspace with high-tech drones supplied by Iran, whose officially stated policy is the destruction of Israel. This is signifigant for Israel's airspace has never been violated by any Arab air force. Arab fighter pilots are uniquely awful and it's common for one Israeli pilot to down a whole squadron of Arab jets in one dogfight. But clueless Arab pilots are no longer in the equation. The drones are pilotless, and Hezbollah leaders have been boasting in public demonstrations that soon they will be able to arm these drones with TNT, chemical and biological weapon

http://www.seraphicpress.com/archives/2005/04/hezbollah_drone.php

[plessy123]

53. No. Be realistic

NO, we're not the only inventive ones in the world. Be realistic. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[dipsydoodle]

57. Probably got it on

Ebay. :rofl:

[muryan]

60. North korea

Has a very simplified version of a drone, which they sold to iran. That is where this model came from. (Our drones can fire missles, these just fly. Hence why it was packed with explosives)

[tabasco]

67. Get under your bed!

It's an Axis Of Evil plot to destroy the USA!!!

And Iraq sought to obtain significant quantities of uranium from Africa!!

[KansDem]

62. Saddam used to...

Or at least that's what the President told us...

Events leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq
Iraq developing unmanned drones capable of deliverying weapons of mass destruction
Cooperative Research

--more--

Iraq is developing drones that could deploy chemical and biological weapons - The President claims that Iraq is developing drones, or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which “could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas.” He goes so far as to say, “We’re concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States.” But this claim comes shortly after US intelligence agencies completed a National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq, in which Air Force intelligence had disputed the drone allegation (see October 1, 2002). Bush’s drone allegation is quickly derided by experts and other sources. The Guardian of London reports two days later that according to US military experts, “Iraq had been converting eastern European trainer jets, known as L-29s, into drones, but ... that with a maximum range of a few hundred miles they were no threat to targets in the US.” And the San Francisco Chronicle will cite experts who say that “slow-moving unmanned aerial vehicles would likely be shot down as soon as they crossed Iraq’s borders” because “Iraqi airspace is closely monitored by US and British planes and radar systems” . The report will also note, “It’s also unclear how the vehicles would reach the US mainland—the nearest point is Maine, almost 5, 500 miles away—without being intercepted.” Anthony Cordesman, a security analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, will say he believes the drone allegation is unrealistic. In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, he says, “As a guesstimate, Iraq’s present holdings of delivery systems and chemical and biological weapons seem most likely to be so limited in technology and operational lethality that they do not constrain US freedom of action or do much to intimidate Iraq’s neighbors.” These criticisms of Bush’s claim are validated after the US invasion of Iraq. Two US government scientists involved in the post-invasion hunt for weapons of mass destruction will tell the Associated Press in August 2003 that they inspected the drones and concluded that they were never a threat to the US. “We just looked at the UAVs and said, ‘There’s nothing here. There’s no room to put anything in here,’” one of the scientists will say. “The US scientists, weapons experts who spoke on condition of anonymity, reached their conclusions after studying the small aircraft and interviewing Iraqi missile experts, system designers and Gen. Ibrahim Hussein Ismail, the Iraqi head of the military facility where the UAVs were designed,” the Associated Press will explain in its report.

It's that damn Saddam again!

edited for:

:sarcasm:

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. The AP reporter can't spell very well

It should be "shearing", not "sheering". Maybe I should get a job writing these reports.... at least I can spell.



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[rodeodance]

5. People who are depressed/marginalized all their lives can be very

resourseful.

[PCIntern]

7. You are inadvertantly correct...

imagine all those Jews who survived the Holocaust, having sufferred all those decades of oppression in Europe, depressed, despondent, and marginalized....they carved a thriving civilization out of a sliver of a country all the while being at war with multiple nations.

They are most resourceful.

Shame, however, they hadn't taken Uganda when it was offerred...then we could see the paradise that the Arabs and Palestinians would have created in the region we now know as Israel...BTW, whatever happened to Transjordan?

Of course, then everyone would show up in Uganda and demanded it back. Or, if they were given the Planet Mars, everyone would state that it was their homeland and that it was illegitimate. And it has to be given back.

[cali]

9. what codswallop

H'zbollah is a vile organization. It has nothing to do with being marginalized or depressed and everything to do with hate. Required disclaimer: By condemning H'zbollah, I am not supporting Israel's actions. The long list of H'zbollah's attacks on civilians damns them.

[PCIntern]

11. This is the point, cali...

our fellow DUers are saying that the two civilizations are equivalent. That's rubbish. These Hezbollah terrorists and their sponsors are just pure killing machines and they were before Gulf War 2, before Bush the Younger. I can't fathom how people say that Israelis don't show restraint. Imagine if the Arabs possessed the materiel and advantages...there wouldn't be a Jew left in the entire ME.

[greccogirl]

55. Thank you.

And you are correct - Israel would have been destroyed years ago...................

[Redstone]

23. Well said. That may not go over well here, but it's true.

Redstone

[High Plains]

24. Yeah, yeah, and the IDF is a vile organization, too.

[PCIntern]

37. OK, fair enough...

to those here who feel that all who bear arms are evil - I appreciate your oonsistency and fairness. That being said, that is not the world in which we live. I myself went to Quaker school decades ago. The philosophy sounds terrific and I wish it were applicable in this world.

It's not.

[Violet_Crumble]

31. They didn't say anything about them not being a vile organisation...

They pointed out that this sort of stuff comes from being marginalised/depressed, which of course is correct, even if it is more complex than the usual US mainstream and simpleminded rationale of 'hate! hate! hate!', and not something people who like to keep things really simple when it comes to complex issues would be fond of acknowledging. They did not in any way say anything that showed any support of Hezbollah...

btw, for the record I think Hezbollah, the IDF, the US military, Islamic Jihad and any groups that thrive on violence are vile organisations. But I thought that Hezbollah's usual tactic was to target military targets, so could you supply this long list of Hezbollah attacks on civilians?

[cali]

38. I'll supply a brief list

and frankly that H'zbollah bombed a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires, killing 95 should be enough.

And frankly, brutal as the Occupation is and as the IDF or the US can be, comparing them to H'zbollah is fucked up. If someone can't see the difference, that speaks to their own shortcomings and moral blindspots. What's simplistic is lumping the IDF or the US in with H'zbollah.


From the Council on Foreign Relations:

Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:

a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
and two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9155/

[Violet_Crumble]

42. I'd prefer a list that covers important details...

Because when you mentioned that bombing of a Jewish community centre in Argentina, I went and did some reading and yr claim is incorrect. Hezbollah denied responsibility for that attack, and I posted a link to a BBC article about it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1635673&mesg_id=1638884 Unless you have some actual hard cold proof that Hezbollah was responsible for it, then you should try to be more factual and say that while Hezbollah was accused of the attack, they denied responsibility....

Actually, I think it speaks volumes as to the lack of moral compass and the massive blindspots of those who support some organisations that thrive on violence and not others. As I said I don't support any of them and think they're all vile. If you can't handle that, that's really yr problem to deal with...

[Redstone]

22. Thank you. That's a common mistake that bothers me too. Good to know

I'm not alone.

Redstone

[Dancing_Dave]

14. If a foreign country was blockading New York with warships...

Of course we'd fire at these warships directly attacking and attempting to strangle our country.

Hezbollah is obviously completely justified in taking this action. It is to be applauded that went straight at the war machine besieging them in that way.

Anyone who can't see the clear, level headed logic of this, should really check into a mental ward of a hospital for a few days, until they can calm down enough to reason about what is really happening now.

The Israeli sieges and invasions of Lebanon and Gaza must lifted and repelled. These are the most clear and flagrant violations of international law possible...as was the Bush Administration's invasion of Iraq.

[PCIntern]

17. Hezbollah is an acknowledged TERRORIST

organization. Have we forgotten all the death which they have brought upon so many? Mental ward indeed. War machine? If the Israelis had no War Machine, there'd me no Israel at all whatsoever. But maybe that's what people would like to see.

It's like saying that the Germans were right for going after our boys landing on D-Day. That they deserved to be slaughtered on Omaha and the other beaches. Say what?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[High Plains]

25. Sorry, this is the USA. Don't imply that people who don't support

Israel are somehow traitors.

[IndianaGreen]

26. They are also a democratically elected party in Lebanon's parliament

and government. If you call everyone a terrorist, you won't have anyone left to sit down at a peace table.

Let's face it, Israel's bombing of Beirut is an act of terrorism. The entire occupation of Palestine is an ongoing act of terrorism.

Israel should have swap all the terrorists in her jail for the captured soldiers:

1. No one would have been bombed.

2. The terrorists would have been moved out of Israel.

3. The IDF soldiers would be home with their families tonight.

[Josh]

30. Don't you think they'll just capture more soldiers?

The soldiers were in Israel, not Lebanon. Hizbollah committed an act of war by crossing the border and snatching the soldiers.

The people in the prisons were arrested for carrying out terrorist attacks - that is, deliberately attacking civilians.

With the greatest respect, Indiana, how can you advocate what you're advocating?

[Violet_Crumble]

32. Those women and children in Israeli prisons are NOT terrorists...

Many of them are held in administrative detention which means no charges were ever brought against them, and there wasn't going to be any demand that Israel release any prisoners with blood on their hands...

[IndianaGreen]

33. The solution is not to match or exceed Hezbollah in terrorism

by targeting the Lebanese people and cities such as Beirut. Israel's tactics will have unintended consequences, such as bringing down Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's government, and perhaps leading to a Hezbollah government in Beirut. Israel's goal of disarming Hezbollah will not be achieved!

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Exactly....

All this sort of reaction does is end up strenghtening Hezbollah rather than the other way round.....

[Josh]

48. Then how can Hezbollah be disarmed?

Can they?

Regardless of who is in the prisons you can't reward a terrorist organisation for coming across your border and snatching your prisoners.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

40. Before you go around

justifying H'zbollah you might want to do a little research on their past acts. BTW, you do realize, that many in Lebanon abhor them. Just because they're elected doesn't mean they're instantly admirable. Imagine if the KKK party had 60 seats in the House.

[Laotra]

43. Do you realize

That many in US and Israel abhor their governements, the AIPAC-nazis and their murderous policies? Just because they're elected doesn't mean they're instantly admirable.

Hezbollah and Amal represent 50 % of the Lebanese population (Shia), and most Lebanese, including the Prime Minister, feel and openly express gratitude towards Hezbollah for liberating the most of the country from Israel occupation, and also consider Shebaa farms occupied territory (part of Golan, given by Syria to Lebanon).

I have done my "little research" and have found no solid proof that the military wing is a terrorist organization, at least when compared to IDF. I don't take US and Israel sources as proof of anything.

[muryan]

63. Your entire arguement

is refuted by the fact that lebanon's PM has denounced the actions of hezbollah and called for them to return the kidnapped soldiers, along with disarming via UN resolution 1559.

[muryan]

61. I personally wouldnt vote

against the only armed militia in the country. They are strong arming the people of lebanon, not even close being a legitimate political entity.

[Hosnon]

51. That obviously depends upon why the warships are there. If New York

nuked London and they sent warships to blockade the port, would N.Y. still be justified in bombing them?

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. When did Lebanon nuke Tel Aviv? n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

16. You know what's really sick?

That they're mentioning dead people and higher oil prices in the same sentence. As if there's a equivalence there.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Americans' support for Israel is tied to cheap energy prices

If gasoline prices rise to astronomical levels, many Americans would not look kindly on a foreign policy that turned the entire Middle East against us.

[JerseygirlCT]

46. I don't understand

Are you saying that Israel is somehow tied to oil prices currently -- as in our support helps our supply?

Are you saying that we should revisit our support for Israel in order to cozy up to the oil suppliers?

I'm confused by your post.

[muryan]

64. Some americans support

for hezbollah is tied to their hatred of Israel, and possibly jews in general.

[Leopolds Ghost]

59. So we agree in principle, we're just haggling over price.

How many souls are worth a dollar off a gallon of gas?

[Nihil]

66. *Ding*

You've got it: in some people's minds, there IS an equivalence ... a very
simple one that says "other people don't matter compared to the price of
a gallon of fuel". Sadly, some of the people holding that view are currently
running the US of A ...

[cliss]

36. Latest photo

from swedish online newspaper Dagens Nyheter.

[maddezmom]

39. AP: Missile, not drone, hit Israeli warship

JERUSALEM - A missile fired by Hezbollah, not an unmanned drone laden with explosives, damaged an Israeli warship off Lebanon, the army said Saturday.

The attack late Friday alarmed Israel because initial information indicated the guerrillas had used a drone for the first time to attack Israeli forces.
more:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_attacked_ship;_

[Cooley Hurd]

45. The ship was the INS Hanit, a Sa'ar 5 class missile frigate:

INS Hanit

Basic Displacement: 1227 tons
Length: 85.64 meters
Beam: 11.88 metres
Draft: 3.17 metres
Speed: 32 knots (61 km/h)
Complement: 64, including officers and crew (+10 aircrew)
Armament: 8 AGM-84 Harpoon missiles, 8 Gabriel SSN missiles, 2 Barak launchers, 76mm Oto Melara gun, 20mm Phalanx CIWS Mk.15, 6 × 32 cell Mk 32 torpedo launchers

[6th Borough]

49. That Phalanx doesn't look the least bit useful in guarding the ship's aft.

...Probably where it was struck.

[6th Borough]

50. Just an FYI on the missle reportedly used...

If I'm not mistaken, a C-802 is a modern Silkworm surface-to-sea/surface-to-surface missle (developed and manufactured by China) capable of extremely low altitude flight, attacking a ship at the waterline. Not only is it a very capable, modern missle; it requires (IIRC) a proper launch platform and radar guidance to direct it to its target. I'll go out on a limb and say that I doubt Israel knew, or knows, the extent of Hezbollah's arsenal.

[w4rma]

54. Interesting. Manufactured and supplied by China. (nt)

[Ian David]

47. You can buy the things for commercial purposes, such as crop dusting. n/t

[Nihil]

65. Damn

Don't go getting all logical & realistic on them when they've got to
the "frothing at the mouth at those damn ay-rabs" stage ...