US analysis of tape shows it is bin Laden - offical

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30456272.htm

US analysis of tape shows it is bin Laden - offical

WASHINGTON, July 30 (Reuters) - U.S. analysis of an audio tape released on Friday on the Internet has confirmed the speaker was al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, a counterterrorism official said.

"The technical analysis has been completed and it has been determined that it is the voice of Osama bin laden," said the U.S. official, who would not speak for attribution.

[leesa]

1. You betcha!

[VegasWolf]

37. Karl say's it's authentic! All the Sheep must line up now, hup, hup! nt

[C_U_L8R]

2. Confirmation Bush is STILL a failure

[Lerkfish]

3. this just in: foxes confirm no fox entered the henhouse

Foxes have no vested interest in making you think they're uninvolved, say the foxes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. "No one here but us chickens."

[zanne]

4. Here we go.

I guess it's time for one of these; it'll be plastered all over cable news networks over the weekend.

[xxqqqzme]

52. just in time for the

4th of July - is tom ridge hiding somewhere nearby w/ his color chart.

If it's a holiday - it's time for another message from the boogeyman!

[rooboy]

5. Goldstein? Moriarty? Luthor?

[Evergreen Emerald]

6. Bin Laden sure has a flare for showing up just when Bush needs him

The neo-cons kick off their political campaign by trotting the dead-guy out. Bin Laden sends a tape, insurgents want a time-table...all favoring Bush just in time for the political campaign. Dang these guys are good.

[greyl]

9. How in the hell does this help bush?

Does it make bush look better in your eyes?
Not in mine.

[soothsayer]

12. rove hopes the morons will say "omigod! keep gitmo alive! strip

my privacy rights! anything to protect me from tbe boogey man!

[greyl]

15. That doesn't make sense.

Bush totally changed his tune regarding bin laden and went after Saddam instead, remember?
Do you really think this tape is fake? Did you read the transcript?
It doesn't help bush.

[Lerkfish]

16. I'm not sure you've been paying attention.

no, it doesn't make sense, logically, but it still works. Trot out a bin laden tape and magically problems for the republicans are shoved aside.

[greyl]

18. Think back to the 2004 presidential campaign.

The fact that bin laden was being ignored was DEMOCRATIC talking point.
Bush said he didn't care about him anymore.

"no, it doesn't make sense, logically, but it still works."

There's nothing to "work", the tape is real.
Read the transcript and explain how it helps bush at all except in your imagination.

[Lerkfish]

23. I AM thinking back to the campaign. Even Kerry admitted the release of

the bin ladin tape right before the election worked AGAINST him and FOR the president.

again, its not logical, but to the freeper mind, what is?

Not sure why you think this is only true in my imagination?

[greyl]

27. No, the idiotic right-wing spin may have, but not the tape itself.

Have a link to Kerry saying the tape worked against him?

It pains me to see the left spinning the news so that the right doesn't even need to bother.

[sabra]

31. Kerry Says UBL Tape Cost Him Election

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139060,00.html

Exclusive: Kerry Says UBL Tape Cost Him Election
Sunday, November 21, 2004

NEW YORK — John Kerry (search) believes he lost to President Bush because of the video from Usama bin Laden (search) that surfaced just days before the Nov. 2 presidential election.

The Massachusetts senator told FOX News' senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera that he believes he lost because the tape may have scared the American electorate.

Rivera spoke to Kerry on Thursday as the senator and a slew of other notable names — including wife Teresa Heinz Kerry, actors Robin Williams and Morgan Freeman and comedian Chris Tucker — were in a holding room prior to the processional leading up to the formal opening of the Clinton Presidential Library in Little Rock, Ark.

...

Trying to recount Kerry's words verbatim, Rivera said Kerry responded by saying:

"It was that Usama tape — it scared them ."

Rivera said Kerry said the tape came out too late for his camp to rebut and the Democratic campaign couldn't counteract it in time for the Tuesday election.

[greyl]

32. Geraldo from Fox says so?

I'll withold judgement.

[sabra]

33. here's another: Kerry Says bin Laden Tape Gave Bush a Lift

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/31/politics/31kerry.html?ex=1264827600&en=80560b7ccfa4c156&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

Kerry Says bin Laden Tape Gave Bush a Lift

WASHINGTON, Jan. 30 - Senator John Kerry said on Sunday that the attacks of Sept. 11 were the "central deciding thing" in his contest with President Bush and that the release of an Osama bin Laden videotape the weekend before Election Day had effectively erased any hope he had of victory.

[greyl]

34. Ok, thanks.

Even so,
1. Kerry isn't saying the tape is fake.
2. This is a post election comment, during the campaign Kerry and Edwards mentioned bin laden more than bush.
3. I think it's too bad that Kerry blamed his "loss" on bin laden. He did admit to campaign errors, but still...
4. I'd rather see a majority of posts at the DU that argue how the tapes hurt bush, not assuming that they will help him.

[orwell]

19. It makes sense...

...if it keeps people afraid.

The "fearless leader" schtick works like a charm...

[greyl]

22. Have you read the transcript?

Please quote some stuff that helps bush at all.

[Lerkfish]

25. may I point you to Mashall McLuhan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan

the CONTENT of the tape is irrelevant. the MEDIA is the message

[greyl]

28. Lordy. I'm against the right-wing spin that this "helps bush".

How can I be more clear?

We'd be better off shoring up the argument that this hurts bush, got it?

[ronnie624]

38. More specifically,

it helps maintain the myth of the "war on terrorism". The transcript of the tape and whether or not it is genuine is irrelevant where it's use as a propaganda tool is concerned. (I don't believe for a second that it is genuine). Releasing the tape helps to reinforce lies that have been spun over the years and preserves the fear that the administration depends on in order to perpetuate their agenda. I think this is what some refer to when they claim the tape "helps Bush". Surely this simple fact is obvious to anyone who has been paying attention for the past several years.

As for your demand that others prove the tape is fake by examining the content; this doesn't even make sense. If the government expects me to believe their press releases, then they must provide proof as I cannot prove a negative.

[greyl]

40. Who released the tape?

I didn't demand proof, I asked for any evidence. None so far.

Btw, it is quite possible to provide convincing evidence that video tapes are fake, it's been done.

[ronnie624]

44. I'm not sure I understand your post.

Who released the tape?

Obviously the tape has been "released" or we wouldn't be discussing it. At any rate it matters little who released it where the use of the content as a propaganda device is concerned.

Btw, it is quite possible to provide convincing evidence that video tapes are fake, it's been done.

You initially used the term "fake" and you did in fact demand evidence proving it was "fake" even though no one made any such claim. Again, I can provide no such evidence. But then, I don't need to provide evidence in order to disbelieve a government press release that is presented as reality without a shred of evidence to support it.

[Lerkfish]

51. are you accusing me of being right wing?

not really sure what your problem is, here.

[greyl]

56. If you want to believe that

even though there isn't a shred of evidence, go ahead.

[Massachusetts]

47. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[uppityperson]

43. Hey greyl, I think we are all on the same side here

After reading through all the messages here, it seems like we are all on the same side, just saying things differently, talking about different points.

These tapes do not help Mr.bush for most of us here on DU. However, there are people out there (whom I refer to in my mind, politely, as the common ignorant fold, impolitely as the stupid consumers who can't/won't think for themselves) that don't think this through logically. Rather than thinking "why the hell is Osama still out there making these tapes?", they think "omg, the boogeyman is still out there, here mrpresident sir do whatever you want omg omg omg thank you for keeping us safe".

Pointing this fact out is not promoting "hey these things help mrbush" propaganda, but are merely pointing out that this is a dark cynical fact.

Also, saying that these might not be real is as much speculation as believing they are real. It is really really difficult to believe anything that comes out of the administrations mouth about reality since what we see and what they say has so often been at odds. Hence, people express skeptisism about these tapes, both content and timing.

I am hoping that more and more people are putting the disconnect together. I have heard stories about former bush supporters that no longer support him, and I finally experienced one of these myself which gives me hope. I hope it is enough to change things and stop these people.

[greyl]

45. Yes, and there are many facets to our side.

Some are cut sharper than others. The knee-jerk simplistic cry "the tapes are fake" is a bit rough, imo.

[frylock]

49. it didn't seem to hurt him in 2004

[BuddyYoung]

26. GW needs OBL almost as much as he needs the disgusting RW media

You are right about Osama seeming to have a flare for showing up just when GW needs him. What I'd like to know is who is it that has so much influence with him (Osama) that they can "get" him to make a "campaign" appearance just when Bush needs a boost to his latest attempt to hijack America.

Think it's possible that Osama's partners/bosses at the CIA bribe him to help Bush? Covertly, of course.

[shadowknows69]

7. I'll bet I could send them a tape

of me pretending to be Bin Laden speaking in a spanish accent and they'd probably validate it as long as the shrub could use something out of it.

[Newsjock]

13. That's what it's going to take

We here all know that an "Osama" tape could easily be made with existing non-classified technology -- probably with nothing more than you'd find in a standard editing bay at Industrial Light & Magic.

Someone with access to the technology needs to make an "Osama" tape and send it to CNN. Then, after it makes the news, reveal that, no, it's just a bunch of dumb geeks in a lab in Sausalito.

[mitchum]

58. THAT is an excellent idea

[Submariner]

8. I wonder if Osama listens to Dubya tapes?

I can visualize Osama and his crew sitting around their cave listening to Bushisms on tape and laughing their ass off in glee in how much of a foll they have made out of Chimpy.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

Talk about giving aid and comfort to the enemy...

"Thank Allah, we are in a war of wits with an unarmed man."

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. What ever it takes to distract the media from the SCOTUS

TERRA! TERRA! TERRA! Pay no attention to the old men in the black robes! TERRA! TERRA! TERRA!

[greyl]

11. Cue a round of empty rhetoric

that the tape is fake.

I thought it was bad for bush that Osama hasn't been brought to justice and we're feeding the insurgency in Iraq.

[Lerkfish]

17. curious post

define "empty rhetoric".

[greyl]

20. Baseless wankering, hyperbole, unfounded spewage,

statements with no supporting evidence, etc...

[Lerkfish]

21. This seems important to you.

[greyl]

24. Saying that it helps bush "seems" important to you.

Provide any evidence whatsoever that the tape is fake, please.
Until then, the claim is empty rhetoric.

[BuddyYoung]

29. YES. Why would the CIA have to fake a tape of their #1 asset: OBL?

Osama may well be one of the CIA's most senior (in terms of tenure at The Company) assets. As a loyal asset, he does what is asked of him. Who knows what the quid pro quo is.

[greyl]

30. Thanks for following your cue.

The past relationship of the US to bin laden is no secret.

Where are you getting your info that he's currently the CIA's #1 asset, possibly their most senior asset, and that he is taking orders from the CIA?

[Lerkfish]

35. um. dude. My point was that an OBL tape works with their core audience

no matter what it says, and frankly, no matter if its fake. That is where this country is at the moment.
No, it doesn't fool us, but to pretend it doesn't fool the koolaid drinkers is counterproductive.

You claim it should NOT help Bush, and I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. I'm just stating that for the intended audience, it DOES help, even if it is not logical to do so.

My problem with your posts here is that you seem to be accusing me of delighting in or promoting that reality. I don't.
You seem to be attacking the choir instead of preaching to them.

[greyl]

36. I don't think people who say the tape is fake are "the choir".

I've seen a few of your posts in the S/11 forum; I'm well aware of your point.

[badgerpup]

39. Wasn't there something a few weeks ago...

about how Bin Forgotten Laden actually had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11...it was really all al-Zarquwi (sp?)...and by golly we got his framed and matted head hanging on the wall?

[Pastiche423]

54. Yep

The big O guy is not on the FBI's most wanted list for the 9/11 attacks, because they do not have enough evidence. So say the FBI.

[Lerkfish]

41. well then, as long as you don't make it a personal vendetta

:shrug:

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. Claiming that the release of those tapes are somehow timed to help bush

really gives bush a lot more credit and respect than he deserves. I would guess that jr has no control over anything in the M.E. but the hapless military in Iraq and that those tapes are made to embarrass and to kick his and americas ass.
Reading anything else into the situation only lend credibility to jr's failed policy and plans.

[hippiechick]

46. Sure but exactly how real is the TAPE ?

Do they have an idea when the tape was actually recorded?

Have they analysed to see if it's a 'whole tape' rather than a bunch of spliced bits to make it sound like he's addressing something 'now' ?


Jus' sayin ... :shrug:

[heliarc]

50. Is it even "tape"???

It bugs me how often "tape" is used to refer to something totally different. If they want to be vague they should refer to it as a recording or "record" even, because they say it was released on the internet right? So was it recorded digitally? This kind of inaccuracy bugs me to no end. I love the idea of field agents out their still using Nagras to record surveillance, but somehow it doesn't seem plausible. Anybody know any more particulars than this lame AP report?

[Massachusetts]

48. Read and see what fits....Propaganda Pricibles, of Joseph Goebbels

Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.

2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.
a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.

b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.

c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences

3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.

4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.
a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence

b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions

c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself

d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity
-Leonard W. Doob
5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign

6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.

7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.

8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.

9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.

10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.

11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.

12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.

13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.
a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.

b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment

c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness

14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.
a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses

b. They must be capable of being easily learned

c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations

d. They must be boomerang-proof

15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.

16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.
a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat

b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves

17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.
a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated

b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective

18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.

19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.

[gkhouston]

53. Should I care about bin Laden

since * so obviously doesn't?

[truthisfreedom]

55. i don't give a shit what any terrorist has to say, be it bush or bin laden

i never watch w's speeches, and i'm certainly not tuning into the CIA's boogieman.

[GeorgeGist]

57. Plausible denial ...

if/when it gets debunked later.

"The technical analysis has been completed and it has been determined that it is the voice of Osama bin laden," said the U.S. official, who would not speak for attribution."


Do I smell KKKarl?