Georgia to require photo IDs to vote

[tuvor]

ATLANTA - Georgia voters must present government-issued photo identification to cast a ballot in the primary election, which is less than three weeks away, the State Election Board said Thursday.

The U.S. Department of Justice cleared the law Wednesday, and the elections board decided to require IDs for the July 18 primary despite concerns about whether there was time to educate voters.

State elections officials can immediately begin issuing free photo identification cards to voters who need them, the board said. The state also plans to air public service announcements on more than 100 radio stations and will give voters at the polls a letter explaining the new ID requirement after they cast their ballot.

The board's lone Democrat blasted the decision to move forward without an education outreach targeting those who lack a photo ID issued by the Georgia Department of Drivers Services. "It's a shame and it's an embarrassment to this state," David Worley said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/voter_id

[aquart]

1. And if you dye your hair and get a nose job, then what?

Talk about a wide open incentive to fraud. As if fake photo ids weren't already a growth industry.

[MercutioATC]

2. How is requiring ID increasing the possibility of fraud???

Granted, it's not perfect, but how do you figure that having to provide an ID is more open to fraud than just telling somebody who you are?

[gratuitous]

3. From the story

"State elections officials can immediately begin issuing free photo identification cards to voters who need them, the board said."

Now, in the next three weeks before the primary, you don't suppose there will be anyone who, you know, fudges their identity so they can vote? Three weeks isn't a great deal of time to track down and check on a person's identity -- a person who claims not to have any government-issued photo ID.

[MercutioATC]

4. But that same person could have just gone to the polls and said they were

somebody else...at least now they have to go through the effort of faking credentials to get the I.D...

As I said, it's certainly an imperfect system, but it's not less secure than just saying your name at the polls.

[gratuitous]

7. Looks like a dry run to me

They're running this in the primary to see how well they can manipulate the system and deny folks a chance to vote. They'll think of something else to skew a fair election come November. The "fraud" is not so much enabling ineligible folks to vote, but denying the vote to otherwise eligible voters.

[MGKrebs]

25. Well you've got the comparison wrong.

You don't just go to the polls and say your name. You fill out a form with your name and address, and sign a affadavit on which it is a felony to lie. With the new ID law, you may not even get that far because your neighbor/poll worker who doesn't like you may decide that you don't look enough like your picture and deny you a ballot. Or maybe you've been through chemotherapy. Or gotten hair implants. Or just got back from Bermuda. There is no poll worker training and no standards established to train them with. It is now totally arbitrary and up to the whim of a poll worker to decide whether to offer a ballot to anyone. You are better off not showing any ID. At least that way you get to ask for a provisional ballot, but there is no recourse if the poll worker denies your likeness.

Even if they tell the poll workers to not deny anybody because they don't look like their picture, there may be as many as 650,000 people in Georgia who currently do not have the proper ID. This is the real purpose of this bill; to keep as many of THOSE people from voting as possible.

There IS no voter impersonation fraud. Think about what it would take (even without the photo ID).
- You would have to pick someone who you were pretty sure was going to vote opposite your choice, or else it wouldn't be worth doing.
- You would have to be sure that person was registered and eleigible to vote.
- You would have to go to THEIR precinct and commit a felony to get a ballot.
- You would have to make sure you got there before your prey did or you would surely get caught.
- You would have to pick someone in a precinct other than your own, or run the risk of being recognized for voting twice in your own precinct.

You would be hard-pressed to find a suitable victim unless you knew them, and I wonder if, when they showed up at the poll and couldn't get a ballot, if they wouldn't suspect you. After all, not too many people are going to be that zealous about changing ONE vote.

And why do they make you swear under oath that you must have the ID card because you have no other valid ID? Are some people going to be reluctant to take that oath if they think they might have some old passport in a drawer somewhere? Is it the cost? They should still let you get the ID if you won't take the oath, just charge for it.

And how come you can get the photo ID with documents that just show your name, address, and date of birth? I mean, what's the point?

[Kokonoe]

6. The fraud may be denying. people the right to vote.

Elderly and the poor may not have a photo ID. But isn't that the whole point of the restriction ("despite concerns about whether there was time to educate voters") How do you get thousands of people photo ID's in 3 weeks.

[SoCalDem]

32. Which is precisely why I suggested MONTHS AGO

that the local democratic party start using their funds to GET THESE PEOPLE THE ID THEY NEED.. Wasting money on lawsuits that will take YEARS and on ads that complain about the ID measure, would have been better spent just complying with something that was already LAW.. I can;t see too many people complaining about being helped to get ID.. Poor people without bank accounts, often have a terrible time in daily life because they DON'T have id, and apparently cannof afford to get it.. Come on dems.. money spent IDing YOUR voters so they don't get hassled on election day is NOT a bad idea..

But now that there's little time left to comply, dems have once again put themselves on the defensive, and will undoubtedly be complaining when record numbers of poor people will have their voting chances cut down once again..

[SensibleAmerican]

13. I agree with you

As long as IDs are given to non-drivers for free, I would not object to the Constitutionality of this law.

[aquart]

14. Answer my question about hair dye and nose jobs first.

The camera ALWAYS lies. My city requires me to sign in below a sample of my signature.

[theboss]

30. My friend was blonde in her driver's license

She's brunette now. She never has trouble getting a beer.

I think that the poll worker who wrongfully stops someone is going to be facing a pretty severe civil rights law suit.

[MGKrebs]

46. I would like to think that too, but...

Sued for what? Denial of right to vote because she didn't look enough like her picture? Sounds like the poll worker could win that one pretty easily. Is there any procedure in your laws for how to deal with a situation where a poll worker wants to deny someone? There isn't here in Georgia. If we're lucky, the Election Board will come up with a procedure, but those rules can be changed on a whim, and the election board is a very political entity.

And beer has nothing to do with this. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up.

[ldf]

43. yeah, you better wear the same shirt, too

what a joke.

ANYONE who care's enough to want to vote, can have a reasonable photo id.

the majority of people have driver's license.

non-drivers can still have a photo id.

hair color and "nose jobs" are just a screen to prevent having to supply any id at all. everyone knows exceptions causes problems.

it is pretty obvious who's hair has fallen out from cancer.

the elderly and poor can deal with them, just like everyone else.

if you want to vote bad enough, you will get the id. get help, just don't wait to the last minue and whine about it.

if not, you don't deserve to be able to vote.

talk about an issue that can be used to hammer us over the head.....

:shrug:

[MGKrebs]

45. There is no "deserving" to vote. It is a right.

Restrictions to this right should only be taken for very good reason and be as narrow as possible,
Your premise is very dangerous to citizen participation.

If there were actual voter impersonation fraud that this could be shown to address, I might be more inclined to agree to some way to address that. But there is no evidence of that, and it is difficult to imagine how would would even perpetrate such a fraud, especially on a wholesale level. (I have tried to do this, and I my conclusion was that the demographic with the time, resources, and incliniation, i.e. the most likely, to perpetrate this fraud, was conservative suburban housewives, maybe even Christians because of the built-in networking.)

"Obvious", "want to vote bad enough", "everyone knows". Those are not the kinds of phrases that you want to use to define your right to vote and therefore your democracy.

Why are people so worried about getting beat over the head with issues like this and flag burning? We Democrats are supposed to stand for something. I thought it was protecting people against injustice and oppression! We should be the ones bringing this stuff up and telling people how the Republicans are trying to turn us into a dictatorship! If many people don't currently understand what is going on here, we should be telling them, not brushing this aside.

I'm not saying we can't also talk about schools and wages and health care, but we can, and must, be able to talk about more than one thing at a time, and talk about some things that might be difficult.

How many citizens in your state no longer vote because they don't have the proper ID? Has anybody tried to count them?

[november3rd]

23. Repression

Because, requiring a government issued (valid) photo id is a tool officials can use to prevent anyone from voting. It's not fraud, it's repression.

[alarimer]

28. This is not the kind of voter fraud we need to worry about

is there a rash of illegal voting going on? Hell, no. This is about disenfranchising people, no more, no less. As I recall, it takes at least a month to receive your driver's license, assuming a person can take time off of work and head to the DMV (which are always located in some suburb away from bus routes or whatever).

So how the hell are people going to get id's in time to vote? they won't. They probably won't bother at all. By making it inconvenient to vote, you are disenfranchising some people- the poor, the elderly and others.

[msongs]

5. gotta keep those kneegroes from voting - are the DEMS outraged?

or are they going along with it all?

Msongs

listen to our song demos!
www.msongs.com/msongsdemos.htm

[AndyTiedye]

9. Of Course We're Outraged, but The Courts Are Georgia's Only Hope Now

The battle has already been lost in the legislature.
The only hope lies in the courts.

Who is taking them to court?
The Voting Rights Act hasn't expired yet,
and this is a clear violation of it.

[Sam Odom]

8. A growing trend

I believe other states, that dont already, will require ID to vote in the near future.

[Ammonium]

10. Why now?

My question is why? Why all the sudden does someone need a photo ID to vote in Georgia? It's never been a problem before without a photo ID so why all the sudden is it such an issue? How about those Diebold voting machines? I'd be much more concerned about the security of those sketchy voting machines than whether someone has a photo ID or not.

And if someone who does not have a car, needs to get an ID to vote, how are they going to get time off work to get one? Who's going to provide them with transportation to the DMV to get their ID? Not everyone in Georgia owns a SUV and can just take off from work any time they want. This does nothing but discriminate against the poor lower-middle class people who are doing everything they can to get by in life. Think the Rethugs in Georgia are scared? I sure do and they all should burn in hell. Racist bastards.

[Sam Odom]

11. Why - it those illegals

everyone been yelling about. I'm in SoCal and I think the 'illegal' issue is a legit one which will help the Repubs in the short run '06 & '08 but after that I'm not sure.

[Ammonium]

15. Illegals are a non-issue and a political distraction

But if you're illegal how can you be register Georgia without a SS number? The form someone would fill out in Georgia requires that you give a SS number to complete the form. A simple check of the computer log would indicate whether the would be voter is a legal US citizen.

http://www.sos.state.ga.us/ELECTIONS/voter_registration/vra_2003_update.pdf

This is not about stopping illegals from voting and about squashing the poor democratic vote. It's like asking someone in New Orleans why they didn't leave with the Hurricane was coming. Some people simply do not have the means. Again, why now? Why all the sudden in 2006 is this necessary? Illegals have been pouring over the boarder since NAFTA went into effect in 1994(Thank Clinton...) so why all the sudden 12 years later do we need these ID cards?

[Maddy McCall]

12. I guess the poll tax will be next.

[Divine Discontent]

16. amen!

why isn't the signature thing enough???? it's pretty obvious if a signature doesn't match, if it doesn't closely, then a provisional ballot could be cast until identity is confirmed -----


SOME DU'ER involved in government or meeting powers that be please say thisssssssssssssss!

PLEASE!



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<<--- check it out!

[Pachamama]

17. Did someone say Jim Crow?

:eyes:

[onehandle]

18. Poor people need not vote. Especially minorities.

Thank you, DUers for never visiting our state. Honestly, there's nothing here to see. It's a bland, featureless flyover state plus Atlanta, which is a corporate bubble plus bars and strip clubs surrounded by a Republican ring of lifeless suburban sprawl. I can never think of anything interesting for visitors to do. There's the MLK center, but the Civil Rights Memorial in Alabama and The Civil Rights Museum in Tennessee are much, much better. We have a big rock (that we call a 'mountain') with a carving that was funded by the klan if that interests you. We now have an 'aquarium', but most cities do these days. The historic district of Savannah is nice, but it's a pale, tiny copy of Charleston, and is building nothing but corporate hotels and resorts for business people. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Enjoy our airport as you transfer planes, or our truck stops as you drive through.

Bring your photo ID if you come here. Or else.

[lynne]

19. Even the majority of the poor and minorities have a drivers license -

- and this is probably the best form of non-discriminatory photo identification that they can ask for. Especially since they will issue photo id's free for the few that may not have them.

We either want to be serious about trying to eliminate voter fraud or we don't. You can't just talk one game and play another.

[Benhurst]

21. Election fraud, not voter fraud, has been the problem since

2000.

Georgians vote on computers which can be easily manipulated by corrupt politicians.

Oh, well, that's the way it is in The People's Republic of BushAmerica.

[MGKrebs]

26. There is no voter fraud.

Show me a case. There is only one in recent memory, and he got caught. (And photo ID would not have fixed it. He voted absentee and then showed up to vote in person also. The records weren't being updated fast enough.)

[alarimer]

29. well there is Ann Coulter

didn't she vote in the wrong precinct or have the wrong address or something? But she is a poster child for Republican "values" anyway.

[lynne]

36. Here's a few -

- This is a partial of the first page of hits for Google. There are only about 1,000 or so more to look at but I'll let you have the pleasure.

You can pretend that there is no voter fraud but that's plainly not the case. I'm all for eliminating all kinds of fraud - both voter and election. I cannot imagine someone having a problem with that.

************

Odessa American, TX - Jun 29, 2006
pecos A 60-year-old Pecos woman is facing two years of probation after being convicted on four counts of voter fraud. Trinidad Villalobos ...
Woman convicted in voter fraud investigation in Pecos County Fort Worth Star Telegram
all 9 related »

Couple Indicted In Voter Fraud Case
WKRC 12, Cincinnati - Jun 26, 2006
... Rick Riddell, Director Voter Registration: "Sometimes you question, but it is not our job to question, we are mandated by the state and we do what they ask us ...

Robstown woman indicted on felony voter fraud charges
Corpus Christi Caller Times, TX - Jun 16, 2006
... General Greg Abbott announced Thursday in Corpus Christi that his office has indicted a Robstown woman on felony charges in connection with voter fraud. ...

Robstown woman indicted on voter fraud
KRIS-TV, TX - Jun 15, 2006
CORPUS CHRISTI - The Texas Attorney General's office said a Nueces County grand jury has indicted a Robstown woman on voter fraud charges. ...

Six People, Including Three Poll Workers Indicted on Voter Fraud ...
Eyewitness News Memphis, USA - Jun 21, 2006
... of the activity. Three felons are also facing charges for voting without having their voter rights restored. A special election ...

Lawyers Rest Cases In Alleged Vernon Voter Fraud
NBC4.TV, CA - Jun 16, 2006
... After the residents were thrown out, Acting City Clerk Bruce Malkenhorst Jr. canceled their voter registrations. But the election went ahead anyway. ...

Michelle Pilecki: Press Finally Discovers Coulter 'Voter Fraud' ...
Yahoo! News - Jun 8, 2006
... There's no shortage of documentation to back up the "bush league" newspaper: Ms. Coulter's sworn voter's registration form and appraisal of her Palm Beach ...

East Providence voter fraud issue rises again
Bristol Phoenix, RI - Jun 1, 2006
... "It's been almost two years ... and if voter fraud isn't enough to wake people up and say 'hey, there's a problem with our voter list' ... ...

City Clerk Testifies Of 'Smelling' Voter Fraud
CBS 2, CA - Jun 14, 2006
... Acting City Clerk Bruce Malkenhorst said he worried about voter fraud. "You don't have to see the corpse to smell it," Malkenhorst said. ...

[MGKrebs]

40. OK. Since this thread was about photo ID, I assumed we would be talking

about fraud that a photo ID would fix.

My google search looks different. What were your search terms, and what is the nature of these "fraud" claims?

As others have pointed out, "voter fraud" is a loosely used term, usually intended to mean "election fraud", i.e, someone else othjer than the voter perpetrating the fraud.

[MGKrebs]

44. A quick review of your search results:

Of the first three, the first one is for someone "helping" elderly residents by taking their absentee ballots and filling them out.

The second is for some immigrant non-citizens who claimed on their voter registration form to be citizens.

The third is for someone who was "assisting" elderly folks at the poll by casting their ballot for them.

I don't think a picture ID would have helped in any of these cases.


And I should also say that I am not familiar with each states election law. I feel that Georgia's procedures are sufficient without the photo ID, and there is no evidence of voter impersonation fraud, or any other voter fraud that a photo ID will fix, in Georgia.

[Recursion]

35. Papers, please

Wrong.

Wrong 1000 times.

This is a country where no-one can ever ask "Papers, please" because we don't issue (yet) the damn papers to begin with.

I have 0 valid identification media. I have an expired passport (that I can use for my I-9 forms) and an expired military ID (that I can use to get my VA benefits). As far as anything else goes, for myself, being able to drive on the roads is not worth the privacy price of getting a drivers license. And I certainly won't countenance someone asking me for "papers" when I go to exercise my sacred civic duty of the ballot.

[catmandu57]

20. They're doing the same thing here in Missouri

If one wants to vote we now need to present a photo id, supposedly one will be issued free to people who need them, but, all this is designed to do is supress the vote.
It's a polltax, plain and simple, It's going to cost me 35.00 to vote this year, I had to buy a state certified birth certificate for 15.00, even though I have one already, then I have to buy my drivers license for another 20.00. I was going to let my dl lapse into obscurity, I don't drive anymore, now I need to renew it.
We won't be able to challenge this law until someone is denied their right to vote, by then it'll be to late.

[roseBudd]

22. Why do they hate people who don't own cars? Because they are poor & vote D

[Felix Mala]

24. In Indiana, they followed this up by closing license branches in

minority areas. They closed the only license branch in Gary, Indiana with 250,000 residents, most of whom are minority. When asked about this, the smart, suburban Republican leaders in the legislature explained the people of Gary could use their passports, instead!

[MGKrebs]

27. Link to the bill if anyone wants to see it. (6 pages)

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2005_06/pdf/sb84.pdf

[theboss]

31. How do people without photo ID buy beer or cigarettes?

Honestly, I used to sell beer at a stadium and never dealt with a person without some kind of photo ID. Are there honestly a lot of people without one?

[section321]

33. How is this a negative? Come on people, let's think.

I'm from Calfornia and I have to show an ID when I vote. What's wrong with that? Not requiring ID can lead to all sorts of voter fraud.

[MGD]

39. Agreed

[MGKrebs]

42. How does having a photo ID help anything?

It's one thing to require an ID to buy something or complete a transaction, but to require it in order to exercise your basic right to participate in your government? What standards are being used to judge likeness? What recourse do you have if you are denied?

Recap: In order to impersonate another voter:
- You would have to pick someone who you were pretty sure was going to vote opposite your choice, or else it wouldn't be worth doing.
- You would have to be sure that person was registered and eleigible to vote.
- You would have to go to THEIR precinct and commit a felony to get a ballot.
- You would have to make sure you got there before your prey did or you would surely get caught.
- You would have to pick someone in a precinct other than your own, or run the risk of being recognized for voting twice in your own precinct.

Having a photo ID makes people "feel" more secure (but for no good reason), and perhaps it is inevitable that we will all be required to carry identification papers someday, but with 650,000 people in Georgia without the ID and an election 3 months away, this is nothing but a naked attempt to disenfranchise poor and elderly citizens who are currently registered, have voted in the past, and have every right to vote again except that suddenly they must re-prove their eligibility over and above signing an affadavit swearing they are who they are, and being on the voter roll.

[Terran1212]

34. My state continues its rape of the poor, minorities

A judge blocked the law recently, I thought. But I guess that has been overturned.

[tenshi816]

37. I wonder how that's going to affect

us absentee Georgia voters. I'm not only out of state, I'm out of the country. Then again, I still haven't received an absentee ballot for the primary so I guess that's how they'll handle it - just disenfranchise me.

[MGD]

38. Sure, they'll disenfranchise the illegal aliens

and rightfully so, but, will they stop including illegal aliens in the census for purposes of aportionment and the electoral college?

[Casper]

41. Open your eyes, people

There are millions of people in this country living on the fringe. How do they buy cigarettes and beer? They don't. They can't afford those luxuries. They don't have cars. They cobble together a life outside of any mainstream frame. They're poor, some are disabled, many are minorities and/or elderly. And sadly, many are veterans, too.

Do we really want to remove their ability to vote, too?

[brentspeak]

47. Less than three weeks away

Of course, this has nothing to do with trying to suppress the vote. Nothing at all.

:sarcasm:

[MGKrebs]

48. Statements from Georgia Dem Sec. of State candidates re: ID

Statement by Shyam Reddy, Democratic Candidate for Secretary of State

Responding to the Department of Justice’s Approval of the Rules Governing the Issuance of Government ID’s to Georgia Voters

I am disappointed in the Justice Department’s recent approval of the rules pertaining to the issuance of government ID’s to Georgia voters. This is yet another step down the slippery slope of denying Georgians their constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.

Just last week the Secretary of State’s office issued a report which concluded that as many as 675,000 registered voters could be denied their right to vote at the polls on July 18th because of this misguided law. With only three weeks to the primary, there is simply not enough time to educate Georgians about these new over burdensome requirements. And if registered voters do somehow become aware of the new requirements, they may not be able to obtain a Government ID before July 18th.

We’ll all be celebrating our independence this July 4th weekend, and we should remember the principles upon which our democracy was founded. Affording every single Georgian the right to vote is the cornerstone of our democracy and the foundation of a representative government. This ill-advised law contradicts those principles by creating unnecessary barriers to the democratic process and I stand firmly against it.

I will continue to educate voters in these last three weeks before the primary and I invite them to join me in rejecting this infringement upon our rights as Georgians.

And from Scott Holcomb:

The official Republican position about the most restrictive voter-access law in the country is that it was passed to combat fraud, but the facts suggest otherwise. In the past decade, there have been no reported complaints of in-person voter fraud, which the photo ID law seeks to limit. However, there have been numerous complaints about absentee ballots. In response, the Legislature made it more difficult to vote in person and easier to vote by absentee ballot. In fact, the thousands of Georgia voters who can no longer vote in person can now vote by absentee ballot.

Georgians deserve a law that combats fraud sensibly and does not disenfranchise voters. This law failed on both counts.

SCOTT HOLCOMB