U.S. Senate fails to pass flag desecration amendment

[Roon]

Breaking on MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[rfranklin]

1. This is the end of civilization as we know it!

Goddamn, if I see one of those long hair hippies burning the flag I may have to kill ten Mexican illegals!


(Parody--no actual Mexicans were harmed or will be harmed in making this post)

[UrbScotty]

3. This is almost as bad as gays being allowed to marry!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HuckleB]

2. So...

66 Senators spit on what the flag represents today? Ain't that wonderful.

[OKNancy]

4. direct link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13579789/

A constitutional amendment authorizing Congress to prevent physical desecration of the American flag failed in a close Senate vote Tuesday. The vote count was 66-34 in favor of the amendment, but because it the measure would alter the U.S. Constitution, a vote of of two-thirds majority, or 67, was required.

With Independence Day a few days away, supporters said the flag amounts to a national monument in cloth that represents freedom and the sacrifice of American troops.

The amendment was in response to Supreme Court rulings in 1989 and 1990 that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

[gratuitous]

13. A carefully orchestrated bit of political theater

Oooh, we came up just one vote short! Now Republicans and Democrats can pretend that the nation is in dire peril of either hordes of flag-burning hippies or losing our freedom of speech altogether, and rally their respective bases for more campaign contributions.

In any event, this was a colossal waste of a legislative day when the country faces a great deal more important issues than whether the "national monument in cloth" (who thought up THAT one?!) is desecrated.

Shame on the Senate for elevating the modern day equivalent of a graven image to the status of godhood.

[Breeze54]

34. I like the way you worded that!

"A carefully orchestrated bit of political theater"

Want to read a humorous article? Well, I thought it was amusing. ;)

In the Senate, Covering Themselves in Old Glory
By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, June 27, 2006; Page A02
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/26/AR2006062601321.html

[dalaigh lllama]

38. Well, by golly. I actually agree with Milbank

This silly amendment is a complete waste of time and taxpayers'money. To steal one of Colbert's expressions: this is the do-nothing-est congress ever.

[Spazito]

45. Well, damn, that's two Milbank columns I have now had to give a

:thumbsup: to in recent days, what the hell is up with him, he is making sense and nailing the issue.

[Poll_Blind]

48. You're absolutely right on all counts. But especially....

...about it being "political theater". I haven't burned a flag in my life but if they made that illegal I'd probably burn one on my private property, after calling news crews. Just so they couldn't get me on some other charge (like starting a fire in public or something similar)...

  The flag is a whore- it will be what anyone wants it to be, stand for anything they want to wrap it around.

  While I believe burning The Constitution is also political speech I would never in a million years do such a thing.

PB

[UrbScotty]

5. Freedom of expression LIVES! (nt)

[AnOhioan]

6. Until the next election cycle........ n/t

[gasperc]

7. stunning development

I wonder if they'll bring it up again??

I thought they were only 1 or two votes short of the 67, or was it 60 to get cloture?

[Jo March]

11. They'll bring it up again

I love the flag. I have my flag flying proudly because it represents my country, not *.

I also know that the flag represents the Constitution as well and the freedom of speech that it guarantees. I would hate it if someone burned the flag but it is their right to do so.

But I'm funny like that. ;)

[hezekkia]

39. :)

well said, arnheim.

[Piscis Austrinus]

46. I understand

Actually it seems to me that I would better understand someone actually burning the flag if this amendment passed.

What irks me is that the same bozos who are torchestrating (that was an accidental typo, but I'm leaving it in because I can't resist a bad pun) this "bit of political theater" are all over the media, invoking the sacrifices of some of our nation's greatest heroes, tying the flag to those sacrifices. Bullcrap. It is the Republic for which the flag stands, and not the flag in itself, for which these sacrifices were so willingly and honorably made.

The kind of Republic which holds its icons sacred and inviolable, yet undermines the basic freedoms and rule of law that inspired the hearts of its citizenry to create these icons, has utterly lost sight of what it was designed to be. It is a nation that values the dust-jacket copy over the contents of the book. It is more concerned with appearance than with actuality.

I don't blame someone who doesn't want the flag burned. But burning a flag makes a powerful statement without words. In a society that no longer seems to value erudition, education, rationality, moderation or prudence, the stridence of such a statement is perhaps the only way one may convey the depth of distress inspired by the moral (and literal) bankruptcy into which this great country has descended.

Peace
PsA

[Jo March]

8. Frist is bombing badly

He lost on the gay marriage vote and now this one.

Let's see. What other hot-button, red-meat, hate-mongering amendments can Frist suggest?

[orleans]

22. maybe something on terri schivo?

(did i spell that right?)

[Jo March]

28. I'm not sure if you spelled that correctly but I'm afraid you may be right

They're running out of ideas.

[MGKrebs]

29. I hope so, but...

these are things which he (they) will say this fall that they could get passed with only a few more Senators and Congresscritters with (R)'s by their name.

Hopefully, the number of preople who will respond to that kind of talk is dwindling to insignificance.

[Wise Doubter]

40. There is ALWAYS the National Language issue.

That oughta be fun to watch.

[Terran1212]

44. actually i think he's winning

the purpose of these things is to demonize the gay liberal terrorist DEemocrats, not win the votes

[LisaM]

9. You need 2/3 to amend the constitution

Anyone know where there is a list of how Senators voted?

[Pachamama]

43. I thought it wasn't just 2/3 of the Senate, but also the states have to

amend it by two-thirds also.... :shrug: I could be wrong, but that is my recollection of the process.

[Bretttido]

47. That's true, but since it didn't get 67 votes, the states wont even

have to consider the amendment.

[LisaM]

63. You are probably right - I thought the states had to do something too

but I do know the Senate has to get the 2/3 and they didn't. Mabye that is the first step.

[Pastiche423]

10. YEA!

What an idiotic, nationalistic bill.

[Kitsune]

12. So which Dems voted for this asinine amendment? *nt*

[CrownPrinceBandar]

14. Thats what I want to know.....

I need to know whom to send letters to.

[orleans]

26. get your pen out

mcconnell from ky voted with the dems on the first amendment
(wow--they're gonna kill him)
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00189
"The 66-34 vote in favor of the amendment was a single vote short of the two-thirds required."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/27/politics/main1757960.shtml

on edit:

bad dems:
baucus
bayh
dayton
feinstein
johnson
landrieu
lincoln
menendez
nelson
nelson
reid
rockefeller
salazar
stabenow

[CrownPrinceBandar]

30. That dirty dog Rockefeller........

I thought he had a bit more sense than that. He was a great governor here, and then look what happened. Sad.

[PassingFair]

50. Do I really have to run these characters thru my DLC-ovater?

Nope.

[orleans]

23. there were two votes

On the Joint Resolution (S.J.Res.12 as Amended ) resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00189
NAYs ---34
Akaka (D-HI)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)

and the durbin amendment
Statement of Purpose: To provide a complete substitute. Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 4543 to S.J.Res. 12 (No short title on file )
YEAs ---36
Akaka (D-HI)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00188

[Quantess]

58. Who cares? It's such a non-issue, anyway.

So yesterday's news.:boring:
I'm sure there are FAR more worthwhile topics to contact your lawmakers about.

It's just water under the bridge.

[truthisfreedom]

15. f*cking delusional goofballs. they ride these wedge issues for all they're

worth, then purposefully sabotage the results so they can get up on that dead horse and ride again next time around.

our politicians need to be taught a firm lesson. they don't give a SH*T about our country, only their partisan battles.

[wiley]

16. Democrats proposed a bill that was rejected by Republicans.

It would not have involved amending the Constitution. It would NOT have attempted to, for the first time in US history, amend the Bill of Rights. These people should not be allowed to continue to run the Senate. Republicans think the Constitution is a tool to further their political agendas and careers.

[Charlie Brown]

17. Roll Call

Harry Reid voted for this?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00189

I guess we can thank Lincoln Chafee, Mitch McConnell, and Bob Bennett for defending the constitution on this one.

Dems who voted yea:

Ben Nelson, Bill Nelson, Harry Reid (!?), Stabenow, Salazar, Blanche Lincoln, Menendez, Tim Johnson, Landrieu, John Rockefeller, Feinstein (!?), Bayh, Baucus, Dayton.

[Robb]

19. And for the click-impaired...

Dems voting yea:
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Dayton (D-MN)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)

Dems voting nay:
Akaka (D-HI)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)


Other nay votes:
Bennett (R-UT)
Chafee (R-RI)

[Ilsa]

18. I wish they would have argued something important, like getting those

darn metal shopping carts out of parking spaces at the grocery store. It really bugs me when the only place to park has a cart in it.

I know my world would be so much better if we had a constitutional amendment against abandoning shopping carts.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[lindisfarne]

20. See listing of YEAs and NOs at this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2698762&mesg_id=2698817

[AlamoDemoc]

21. one small victory for those of us that still care the first amendment

Please visit link below, and support the first amendment...thanks

http://www.rcfp.org/handbook/index.html

[Imalittleteapot]

24. Gives me a little faith. Now can we get onto legislative business that

REALLY MEANS SOMETHING TO THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS?

[merwin]

25. Is 66% considered a tie in the 2/3 majority case?

And if so, would Cheney have been allowed to vote?

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. 66% is less than 2/3

so surely it shouldn't be a tie. The wording is "two thirds of both Houses", which I would think mean that you need 67 senate votes (now there are 50 states) - even if some senators don't vote.

[theanarch]

31. can someone explain...

...why Menendez voted for this stinking piece of crypto-fascist thought/behavior control? Just who does he think he's pandering to, and was it worth alienating/upsetting his base?

[trogdor]

32. Senate Rejects Flag Desecration Amendment

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060627/D8IGRUVG0.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - A constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration died in a Senate cliffhanger Tuesday, a single vote short of the support needed to send it to the states for ratification and four months before voters elect a new Congress.

The 66-34 tally in favor of the amendment was one less than the two-thirds required. The House surpassed that threshold last year, 286-130.

The proposed amendment, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, read: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

It represented Congress' response to Supreme Court rulings in 1989 and 1990 that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech by the First Amendment to the Constitution.
************************************
Anybody who knows how everybody voted should post the results here.

[cyberpj]

33. Roll Call Vote Summary here:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00189

NAYs ---34
Akaka (D-HI)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)

[POAS]

49. Bennett...???????? n/t

[Wise Doubter]

35. what a bunch of commie pinkos !

:rofl:

[Thickasabrick]

36. Great news! This is a win for the GOP - they just don't know it.

We need to convince them that by allowing people to burn flags (even though it only happened 5 times this year), it will help us identify who really hates amerika and if they have terraists links.

[wellst0nev0ter]

37. Good Ole Senator Dayton

He's not even running for re-election, and he STILL votes to burn the Constitution. Since he is pleasing absolutely no one, this is a serious ethical deficit on his part. It's a shame too, because he was pretty consistent on most liberal issues.

[Pachamama]

41. Darn! You mean we aren't going to join the proud ranks of Nations like

the former Soviet Union, Iran, Saudi Arabia and even Nazi Germany that prohibited the burning and desecration of their flags?

:cry:

It's a sad day for fascism and a great day for democracy! :sarcasm:

[Idioteque]

42. I've noticed that among the people, this isn't a left vs right thing...

...but a free speech issue. Most folks at FreeRepublic and RedState are opposed to the amendment too. Anyone who loves the first amendment opposes the flag amendment, regardless of their personal feelings regarding flag burning.

[theanarch]

55. well, not really...

...first, not one Senator spoke IN FAVOR of flag burning, which means they all oppose it; the difference, i suggest, is how they viewed their vote on the issue would affect their political (e.g. electoral) futures. Clearly, some in re-election campaigns voted on the advice of campaign consultants (hey, when you pay those big bucks, you have an incentive to listen, even if your gut tells you otherwise)--how else to explain Chaffee's NO vote? Or Menendez's YES vote? It's interesting the both Clinton and Leiberman voted against it, even though Hilary was on record as being for it--obviously, both are trying (too little, too late) to re-ingratiate themselves with real (which is to say, non/anti-DLC) Democrats.

Second, apart from the few whack-jobs (Tom Coburn gets my award for creative originality in the Intellectual Dishonesty category for arguing that doing Rove's bidding on this "reasserts the authority of Congress vis-a-vis the Presidency" and "reclaims Congressional power" from the White House--absolutely stunning in its vacuity) who take the politics of pandering and the discourse of distraction seriously, my sense is the majority of Senators were just covering-their-asses with the voters they fear most back home. The point? Don't read more ideological significance into this than there really is.

[Pachamama]

56. This isn't a Republican/Conservative vs. Democrat/Liberal battle

It is an argument on whether you support free speech and defend the Constitution or not. I love the American Flag and would never think of burning it. Seeing someone burn it bothers me, but it would never dawn on me to ban the burning of the flag.

As I posted above, the only nations that have ever "banned the burning or desecration" of a flag are the former Soviet Union, some of the Soviet bloc countries such as Poland etc. and China, Saudi Arabia, Iran and.....NAZI GERMANY! Germany now doesn't have that ban and specifically because it was a law under the Nazi's. None of the other "democratic nations" in the world that we always say are such good examples of partners and democracies don't have bans on the burning of their flags either.

Why is it that the Right wing wants us to join the ranks of the few countries like Iran, China, Saudi Arabia and the historical examples like Nazi Germany? Is that what people, Americans who love their country want?

[tinfoilinfor2005]

51. Once again, my senator, Bill Nelson, sides with the

repUGLYcans to piss on the constitution. But I'm certain when he comes glad handing at the next political event in Florida, he will be the first to stand on the stage and pound his chest and brag about his democratic accomplishments. As per usual. But he knows there is no way any dem will vote for Harris, so he can pretty much do anything he damn well pleases.

[dweller]

52. you can't burn the flag

it's made in China, and made from plastic.

it melts.

dp

[Lochloosa]

53. ...

:spray:

[ginnyinWI]

54. Their precious wedge issue lives on to fight another day.

Where would they be without flag burning, guns, gays, abortion, and the war on Christmas?

[Ringo84]

57. Good

I was thinking that I'd have to burn a flag just for the hell of it on the Downtown Mall.
Ringo

[HuffleClaw]

59. election year bullshit

so they can air ads that say, 'candidate X voted AGAINST protecting liberty' or some such crap. same thing with the gay marriage crap. 'candidate X voted to give gays special rights'!

though, its funny they need to resort to such blatant politicking since they can't point to any success in iraq or coherent policy for anything else.

[flaminbats]

60. I still don't understand this issue..

Republicans rant and rave against flag burning, but trashing a flag or flying a torn flag is more disrespectful than burning it!

Many protesters burn the flag..but so does the American Legion. After all, this is the respectable way of disposing of one. http://longisland.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=longisland&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legion.org%2F%3Fsection%3Dour_flag%26subsection%3Dflag_faq%26amp%3Bcontent%3Dflag_faq%235So why does the American Legion support this amendment, do they want to send people to prison for being patriotic? Why not send them to jail for being obedient and docile to the government..also for throwing a flag in the trash or leaving it out in the rain? Why not imprison all Americans who speak out against the government and who are tired of seeing so many Americans being slaughtered in Iraq? Why not imprison anyone who doesn't fold a flag properly?

[Brian Stevens]

61. This IS scary!

Last year, they were within 7 votes for the 2/3rd. Now within one?!? I hate to see next year.

[Floogeldy]

62. I couldn't make it into work today . . . .

All of that smoke filling the air, I couldn't see where I was driving. And all of those people blocking the streets, burning their flags. Such a nusiance! ;)