Majority of Americans want withdrawal plan for Iraq (USA TODAY/Gallup)

[sabra]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-06-26-iraq-poll_x.htm

Majority of Americans want withdrawal plan for Iraq

WASHINGTON — A clear majority of Americans say Congress should pass a resolution that outlines a plan for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday. Half of those surveyed would like all U.S. forces out of Iraq within 12 months.

The poll finds support for the ideas behind Democratic proposals that were soundly defeated in the Senate last week. An uptick in optimism toward the war after the killing of terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi earlier this month seems to have evaporated.

...

Bush's approval rating is at 37%. After hitting the low point of his presidency at 31% in May, it had risen to 38% in early June. His standing, which slipped below 40% in February, hasn't rebounded above that level since then.

The percentage of Americans who say the president has "a clear plan for handling the situation in Iraq" has dropped to 31%, a new low. That's still higher than the 25% who say congressional Democrats have a clear plan for Iraq.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. The illogic of the American people never fails to amaze me! ...

Only "25% say congressional Democrats have a clear plan for Iraq." Yet "In the poll, 57% say Congress should pass a resolution that outlines a plan for withdrawing U.S. troops".

What do they think the Democrats attempted to do last week?

[saigon68]

4. The leadership isn't getting the word out

Especially with drones like Limpmann and Clinton wanting to "Stay the Course'

[cushla_machree]

10. Exactly

Democrats are trying to work hard and pass resolutions, which are defeated. While at the same time, the hawkish front contenders are trying to establish themselves as 'tough on terorism' which means they are scared shitless of being labeled the 'cut and runners.' Grow some balls dems, your grassroots have been telling you for a long time they do not agree with this war, the centrists and republicans are turning from it, and they STILL CANNOT COME UP WITH A SOLID ANTI-WAR MESSAGE.

Hillary isn't different from the bush gang, and if she wants to run on that fine. But the democrats need to do a better job of getting BOTH options out there, that there are anti-war dems if clinton wants to be pro-war and out of touch....OR THEY SHOULD SETTLE ON ONE CLEAR CONSISE MEASURE. That they have neither shows, they won't get elected this fall. How pathetic to lose out this election cycle, if the repukes keep their seats, i don't want to know how the dems can look themselves in the mirror.

[Higans]

19. If the did COME UP WITH A SOLID ANTI-WAR MESSAGE.

They would be sure to win the Votes of the people. The only problem remaining:



This should be the second Democratic priority. Like it or not the only way they can win is if it's a fair game.

"Touch this computer and your vote will be counted my child." WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP.

[saigon68]

31. It's a "Steaming Pantload"

[halobeam]

28. Thats exactly it.

[Blasphemer]

30. That's the crux of the problem...

The biggest name for the party is Clinton and the both of them have torpedoed both party and country when it comes to Iraq.

[JudyM]

15. They believe what they hear parroted on tv, plain and simple.

how the hell can they think the pResident has more of a plan than the dems? 'Stay the stupid course that's only making matters in the region worse' is somehow compelling to them.

[wisteria]

26. The media, like the adminitration ,cherry picks what it wants to

report on the Democrats plans. Elimination and twisting the facts can allow the administration to maintain the upper hand. We need to get the word out.

[Higans]

16. The Media cover up any plan proposed by Democrats.

Unless it is a obviously stupid plan in which case they blast it for weeks.

The reason that only 25% say Democrats have a clear plan is that the media dose not give any recognition to any plans by the Democrats. i.e. John Murtha i.e. Swift Boat.

The reason that 25% say yes is because 25% of our population gets it's News from the internet.

So think every one, Think Hard, How do we get the information to the rest of our population????

Now do it.

[FantasticFlan]

25. Most people don't pay that close attention to Washington.

"What do they think the Democrats attempted to do last week?"

I doubt most of them have any idea what anyone attempted to do in congress last week. Democrats need to be shouting about this: "You want us to get out of Iraq? We've been trying to do that, but the Republicans won't let it happen, vote them out of power and we'll get the job done."

[outofbounds]

33. The votes last week were

hell I don't know what the were. I do know this, more Dem's voted no on each bill than voted for it. Until they unite on something, the Dem's, expect more of the same. Unity and leadership, or the lack thereof is what is hurting us.

[watrwefitinfor]

2. I'm trying very hard to understand what they are saying.

First they say a clear majority of the people want Congress to pass a law to get us out of Iraq; half want us out within a year.

Then they say that only 25 percent of the people think the Democrats have such a plan.

This, immediately after a week of debate when the Repubs and media excoriated the Dems for presenting just such a plan. :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

Somebody help me, please!

Wat

[ticapnews]

3. Why do the American people hate America?

Got to stay the course! Thousand points of light! Victory is right around the corner!

[ladjf]

5. The Southern U.S. is the ignorance capital of the world.

[katty]

8. and ALWAYS has been

[watrwefitinfor]

9. I am as confused by your post as I was about the poll.

"The Southern U.S. is the ignorance capital of the world."

Does this have something to do with the original post, or is it directed at me?

Or do you just hate southerners in general and take any opportunity to express it?

Wat

[erknm]

17. Typical of this group

Too many people interested in cute soundbites, be they elected politicians or frustrated voters. Was the Southern US the ignorance capital of the world when Clinton was elected? I kind of thought he did a few good things (although I question his taste in women).

While Gore is more than a little dull, the old boy from Tennessee seems to have a pretty fair understanding of what we are doing to our planet.

A bit of advice to our southern hater from a southern born environmentalist currently living in the totally screwed up state of California:

Shut the hell up until you have something intelligent to say. Your comments have nothing to do with the thread and only serve to split the group. This type of rhetoric is a prime example of what is going wrong with the democratic party. Some people talk a good inclusive talk, but will take any opportunity to toss a grenade. From what I have read, if you really want to help, you can do so by not launching such absolutely stupid comments.

[Higans]

21. OK, That was rude.

and even Racist.

This whole conversation detracts from unity.

[ladjf]

29. Clinton and Gore are Southerners. They don't represent the

majority of Southerners. The South, with it's bible thumping arrogance, started the first American Civil War and with the Republican encouragement, led to the ascendancy of the Republican Party in the late 20th Century. The South leads the Country in low education statistics, congenital birth defects and a host of other negative measurements.

I'm not talking any "soundbites", nor am I a racist. I'm a 70 yr. old caucasian from Mississippi. It makes me sick to see that my region of the Country allowed themselves to be totally misled by Republican politicians and charlatan preachers. They have enthusiastically cooperated in the overthrow of the American Government. They are vulnerable to the Republican mind control machine because they don't have a philosophies that are in touch with the realities of human society.

I consider my criticism of the South to be constructive. I'm asking that my fellow Southerners stop listening to crooked Republicans, crooked Democrats and money hungry preachers and start thinking for themselves.

[ladjf]

27. My post was in response to the question "Why do the American

people hate America".

My answer was that so far as the South was concerned, it wasn't a matter of hating America. They are too ignorant to be able to realize what it takes to maintain a Democracy. The "bible belt" and the "ignorance belt" are the same. The same people, with the same stupid, shortsighted thinking that started the American civil war are now supplying the Republicans with the votes needed to put the Republicans into office in Congress, the Senate and the White House.

Personally, I'm from Mississippi and as William Faulkner once was quoted, "I love Mississippi, not for what it is, but, in spite of what it is. I'm a graduate of the University of Mississippi. I know lots about how my fellow Mississippians think.

No, I don't take every opportunity to knock the South, just occasionally. The grand Southern strategy by the Republicans has worked and we have lost a Country. I currently live in Georgia in a county that has no elected Democratic politicians, where a large number of the autos have W decals and almost none have Democratic decals.

I do apologize for somewhat wandering off the subject from the original post. I'll be more careful in the future.

[erknm]

32. Democrats have a long, celebrated history in the south,

such as fighting for the rights of slaveowners. Stephen Douglass, a Democratic senatory spearheaded the Kansas-Missouri act that admitted Kansas and Missouri into the union as slave states. You cannot find much of a history of the Civil War that does not start with this. Lincoln, after a failed senate run against Douglass, defeated him in the Presidential campaign, the first Republican President elected. It seems to me that he was instrumental in eradicating slavery.

So what does this mean?

Nothing, insofar as how we look at democrats and republicans now. I doubt most readers here want to embrace the democratic party's history of advocating slavery, yet we still try to punish the south in general because of it. Makes no sense to me.

Additionally, I believe that you have confused the issue of the Republican Southern Strategy. The fact is, we cannot elect a Democrat for President unless he is from the south. (JFK being the notable exception who needed a southern VP and alot of dead people in Chicago to win). The Republicans recognize this and took the game from us, but we were playing that game prior up to that point.

But this makes the case that there is a national appeal for southern political leaders. Outside of Florida which is less southern than any of the other states in the region, there are not too many electoral votes down there. If the republicans can lose California and New York and still win, then what does the south really mean? It isn't directly the electoral votes, rather the widespread appeal of the leaders that the republicans have embraced. The south means no more to the republicans than does the midwest. Think about it, they win without California and New York! They didn't do this because of the south, but because of the south, the midwest, etc.

I even prefer southern racists to northern racists. One side of my family is from Boston, so I have actually spent a fair amount of time there. What I have noticed is that the current state of racism is far more vitriolic and far less open than it is in the south. In the south, you have a pretty fair idea if you are in a room with a racist. In the north, you cannot tell. Maybe that is a good thing, but I figure better the enemy you know.

In any event, I appreciate the statements about Mississippi, and I too have, in responding, taken us off topic, so I will call it a day.

FH

[ladjf]

34. You have made a good, thoughtful post. However, we don't

quite agree on the subtleties of several points.

Your comments about early Southern efforts to improve conditions are indeed true. You didn't mention that the slave owners in Southern Louisiana had a particularly good code of treatment for slaves.

The South has and has had many great leaders and thinkers. However, in the end, the big question is what sorts of majority forces tilt the balance in favor of one thing or the other. In the current political South, the conservatives, bolstered by the religious right wing are a major portion of the Republican support in the elections. But, there are many other influential factors. The nature of the DU forum prohibits us from going into deep details. We habitually throw out what we think are the main thoughts and hope that the reader will be satisfied with that.

The real truth, in my opinion, is that everything influences everything else to one degree or the other. But, life is too short for each of us to try to sort it all out. We have to be able to make good decisions about what things could be influence by us. I have criticized my South, that I love dearly. I have planted cypress and catalpa trees in my yard just because they remind me of my happy young days in Mississippi, fishing with my father. I want the South to wake up and start becoming mature philosophers so that they can be part of our solution rather than our problem.

Take, for instance, the bumper sticker, "Support our Troops". In Georgia, where I now lives, that means support sending our troops to war, getting them killed in order to steal oil from Iraq and to influence voters at home that attacking another Country is somehow patriotic. They are contradicting themselves with that slogan.

Or, you might like this one. Thirty years ago, I used to see the bumper sticker that said "Dixie, love it or get you ass out." That means that anyone that doesn't agree with their philosophies should simply leave, no debate or discussions or compromise and accommodations for diverse views, just "get your ass out". That won't work.

Your point about open versus covert racism has often been observed by others and may well be true.
A funny thing is that when I attend my high school reunions in Mississippi (all white), my classmates are saying some very racists things that I don't recall them saying when they were teenagers. Either I wasn't noticing it then or they have hardened their position on race. Anyway, they almost dis invited me from one reunion when I challenged the entire class on their asinine idea to boycott French products because they didn't agree with us about Iraq.

My view of the "Southern Strategy" was the Republican plan to lure the former "Dixiecrats", who were angry with the Dems because of Democratic civil rights initiatives away from the Democratic Party into the Republican Party. In other words, the Republicans were inviting the heart of political racism, the DixieCrats and their sympathizers to join them. It worked like a charm and , in my opinion, was the single most significant move that allowed the Republicans to unseat the 40 year control of the Democrats.

As close as the popular votes were in 2004, it is obvious that in order to win, either side will have to draw votes from all over the Country. In the end, it boiled down to the swing states such as Florida and Ohio. The Republicans didn't have to invest anything in the South because they knew that they had it in the bag. Then in Florida and Ohio, fraud more than likely decided the day there.

I believe that if the popular vote in November yields a large majority for the Democrats, say 8% or more, and at least some of the voting fraud can be controlled, the Democrats will regain the house and come close in the Senate. If and when the Dems regain the Congress, Senate and White House, the biggest problem then will be that among the Democratic politicians, smart, honest and courageous ones are scarce. They might not have enough sense and courage to re-establish Democracy.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. That's a winning attitude!

That'll help us down here in the South convince our friends and neighbors that the GOP is not here to help them.

But keep it up...we are just ignorant assholes. All of us.

[ladjf]

35. One of the most astonishing enigmas in American politics is

why do voters in America, especially in the South, continue to vote for a Party that obviously acts against the best interest of those voters? We've all got a few theories about that.

The South has had and still does have many outstanding leaders, thinkers, artist, writers and educators. Unfortunately, the majority of the voting constituency is not among those. My criticism of the South (I'm from Miss.) is an attempt to be constructive. We've got to educate our people better, take better care of their health needs and somehow lift themselves out their cycle of poverty and ignorance that is hurting their best interests. We are being played like a fiddle by the Republican Party. (Other parts of the country as well)

Personally, I've never been able to convert one right wing Republican voter to vote for the Democratic ticket. They seem to be permanently fixed in one mind set. The Republicans have done an amazing job of somehow claiming all of the "hot button" issue for their own. All they have is feel good slogans. But, so far, that, along with e-voting fraud, has been enough to take over the government.

[Redstone]

12. And at the end of the tunnel.

Redstone

[Higans]

20. YA Mission Accomplished allready.

DUH.

[Writer]

6. America wants to "cut and run"

:P

[Tiggeroshii]

7. Yeah. The Democrats are stupid if they don't jump on this one.

They seem to be budging, Hillary even seems to be changing positions slowly. Only time will tell. Let's just hope it's not too late.

[Bullshot]

11. I guess most Americans are "cut and run" cowards,

using KKKarl Rove's directive to the lemmings in his party and the MSM.

[bigtree]

13. completely opposite of the republicans' platform

[joytomme]

18. How lucky the Bush administration is!

Number One...they want to withdraw troops from Iraq, but now they can say they want to stay the course but because of the American people, they have to withdraw troops.

Number Two...if the NYT, Wall St. Journal and LATimes hadn't outed the surveillance of banks, the Bush administration would have had to reveal the info sub-rosa. Because they needed to say that because the info had been made public, the US can't be victorious over terrorists. Of course it's not because the Bush administration, the Pentagon and the US Generals have their heads up their collective asses...it's because info has been leaked and oh dear! now we are doomed.

What horseshit!!! Well, the good news is that troops will be withdrawn. We can bank on that!

Joy Tomme
Ratbang Diary at: http://ratbangdiary.blogspot.com

[Higans]

22. The Bad News is its another Bait and Switch. N/T

[LuckyTheDog]

23. America CRIES OUT for a plan!

The Democrats are giving them one. The GOP isn't.

It's a simple and profound message. Will the Democratic leadership be able to deliver it?

:dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[skyblue]

24. Not a decision that is easy for politicians..........

Only 17% want Immediate Withdrawl vs. 41% Withdraw take as long as needed. 1 no opinion and add more troops 8.

17% plus 33% want withdraw within the year. which seems to add up to an even 50%.