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LAT: Iraqi Death Toll More Than Administration Acknowledges (50,000+)

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 12:33 AM
Original message
LAT: Iraqi Death Toll More Than Administration Acknowledges (50,000+)
Iraqi Death Toll More Than Administration Acknowledges
By Louise Roug and Doug Smith, Times Staff Writer
June 24, 2006

Baghdad, Iraq -- At least 50,000 Iraqis have died violently since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, according to statistics from the Baghdad morgue, the Iraqi Health Ministry and other agencies -- a toll 20,000 higher than previously acknowledged by the Bush administration.

Many more Iraqis are believed to have been killed but have not been counted because of serious lapses in recording the number of deaths in the chaotic first year after the invasion, when there was no functioning Iraqi government, and continued spotty reporting nationwide.

The toll, which is dominated by civilians but probably also includes some security forces and insurgents, is daunting: Proportionately, it's as if 600,000 Americans had been killed nationwide during the last three years. In the same period, at least 2,520 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq.

Iraqi government officials involved in compiling the statistics say violent deaths in some regions have been grossly undercounted, notably in the troubled province of Anbar, where local health workers often are prevented from compiling the data because of violence, security crackdowns, electrical shortages and failing telephone networks.

The Health Ministry acknowledged the undercount. In addition, the ministry said its figures exclude the three provinces that make up the semi-autonomous northern region of Kurdistan because Kurdish officials do not provide death toll figures to the government in Baghdad, the capital....

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-deathtoll25jun25,0,4970736.story?coll=la-home-headlines
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Right wing boards have celebrated the high deaths of Iraqis
and evil Arab "towellheads". As Ann Coulter says "we should kill their leaders, convert them to Christianity, or kill them"

This sickness permeates the new republican party. They've turned it into a religious war and could care less about innocents being killed.

W started all this with his stupid axis of evil rhetoric. Republican hate mongers feel justified in the deaths of any Islamist, regardless of age or anything else.

W has suggested through his policies that genocide of Arabs is a good thing. Just ask his big "Christian" backers, Falwell and Robertson.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. it is "couldn't care less", Erika
and you are absolutely correct
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Gotta nitpick here...
Perhaps you're referring to another quote from this demonic harpy, but if not, the famous quote is that we should "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Yeah, she was upset that her friend had just died, but the shrillness of her xenophobia rang true.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Wait just a minute, HelLATimes
Didn't The Lancet estimate 100,000 two years ago?

Here's a BBC article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. yes they did . . . and they've since updated it to 300,000 . . .
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. There are no more real daily newspapers in California.
What a terrible time this is.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. We're catching up with Saddam
Then again, it took him three decades to kill an estimated 300,000 Iraqis, and we've created an environment where 50,000 people could be killed in three years. In other words, on our watch the murder rate is well over twice as high.

But we need to stay there so things don't get completely out of control.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Over three decades, Saddam killed less "insurgents" than us?
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 01:56 AM by Just Me
Let's get perspective over the last thirty years.

Iran/Iraq war (both sides provided with WMDs by those who shall not be named).

Kurds being funded to overthrow Saddam (by those we shall not name) and are the primary "Saddam killed his own people" thingy asserted (by those who shall not be named).

The attempted execution of one of Saddam's sons (encouraged by those who shall not be named). The attempted execution of Saddam (encouraged and funded by those who shall not be named).

Now, let us compare and calculate what would happen under similar circumstances in the U.S., hell, let's say, within the last five years.

Imagine an armed militia (mostly from, let's say, LA) of 1200 pure-blooded Americans attempting to overthrow Bush at his ranch: what would happen?

Imagine an alliance of quite white U.S. anarchists (and let's pretend they are mostly from,...Utah) kidnapping GWB's kids and causing one of them to become permanently paralyzed from the waist down: what would happen?

Imagine an US/Mexican border battle/war with Catholics voluntarily serving as human shields for the Mexican people: what would happen?

Total and complete lock-down, police-state, tyranny.

You know it and I know it.

Perspective.

A "suspicious-looking" backpack is left behind by a Boy Scout on the White House lawn. Immediate terror alert. A robot deposit a designator. It's nothing.

Perspective.

Our rate of violent crime, death by guns, domestic violence, poverty, drug abuse rank up there in the worst in the world. Our investment in prisons is huge. Our investment in WMDs is outrageous. Our investment in common people is an "F" compared to our investment in the wealthiest. Our contribution, comparatively speaking, towards lifting humanity rather than oppressing it is just fucking disgusting.

Perspective.

The deaths of human beings have no personal impact upon those leading this country because they are reaping in the benefits,...grim-freakin-reapers. Nothing personal,...it's all about political ambition and power and they don't give a DAMN how they impact this world as long as whatever they do benefit themselves.

Perspective. On edit, some more,...

In the last five years, this administration has killed well over a couple hundred THOUSAND human beings, disabled millions (either by WMDs or economic policies), divided its own country in addition to destroying two others, delivered global instability and opposition and anger,...while simultaneously profiteering and feeding the worst "terrorist" to humanity, the military/industrial/media complex, told God and Mother Nature to go to hell because the lust for money and power are more important, committed crimes against humanity and the intregity of US democracy,....

Perspective.

Maybe, if (those who shall not be named) hadn't been so lustful and oppressive over the last thirty years,...9/11 would not have happened,....all the minute-groups of fighters against oppression may not have attacked us over the last thirty years, at all.

Perspective.

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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. Isn't this the same as Vietnam? Is there a count of
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 01:02 AM by Robbien
how many Vietnamese died in the conflict?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Close to 4 million Vietnamese civilians are said to have died
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 01:10 AM by BeyondGeography
plus another 1.1 million Vietnamese soldiers, according to this site:

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/casualty.html

There are a lot of competing estimates, but I've never heard less than three million.

But God, of course, has and always will be on our side.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. So, it took twenty years for the number of Vietnam dead to be released
During the conflict the number of the dead was probably treated the same as the number of Iraqi dead now.

Never realized it was that high, over five million. It is a devastating number.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. "over five million" - TRAGIC
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 01:25 AM by ShortnFiery
And yet, we didn't KILL THEM ALL and help South Vietnam take over the Country.

Hum, could it be that feelings of "Nationalistic Pride" are not the exclusive right of us citizens living within The American Empire? :P
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. GW the first disabled millions of Iraqi children in his faux war,...
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 03:43 AM by Just Me
,...with all the DU WMDs utilized. That country was clinging to survival before GW the second arrived,...and they knew it. Almost like challenging a man to fight, firing when his back's turned. Of course, torture's on their menu, too; illegal detentions; violations of US laws, Geneva Conventions, and other Accords. They pull the strings, in the most evil of ways, in a former democratic nation.

CHICKEN-HAWKS,....they earned that name. Unfortunately, they manipulate everyone, including their own people to do the dirty work *sigh* like the Mafia picking out poor, starving boys to deliver the mayhem.

This is so sick and depressing. I'm having horrible insomnia and need to go take a pill or something.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. There was never any such country as "South Vietnam"
Literally: the place we call "South Vietnam" was officially called the Republic of Vietnam. It never relinquished claim to the northern part of Vietnam, which was, in turn, never called "North Vietnam."
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. Much Closer to 300,000 Dead!
and how bad was that saddam guy again?

http://www.irishantiwar.org/news/item.tcl?news_item_id=102238

<snip>

The lead author of the Lancet report, Les Roberts, reported more recently on February 8, 2006, that there may be as many as 300,000 Iraqi civilian deaths. One of the world's top epidemiologists who lectures at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Roberts has also worked for the World Health Organization and the International Rescue Committee.

Further underscoring these results from the Lancet report were comments made by Bradley Woodruff, a medical epidemiologist at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who was quoted in the Chronicle of Higher Education on January 27, 2005: "Les has used, and consistently uses, the best possible methodology." The article continues, "Indeed, the United Nations and the State Department have cited mortality numbers compiled by Mr. Roberts on previous conflicts as fact - and have acted on those results. (He) has studied mortality caused by war since 1992, having done surveys in locations including Bosnia, Congo, and Rwanda. His three surveys in Congo for the International Rescue Committee, a nongovernmental humanitarian organization, in which he used methods akin to those of his Iraq study, received a great deal of attention. 'Tony Blair and Colin Powell have quoted those results time and time again without any question as to the precision or validity,' he says."

In an interview on Democracy Now! on December 14, 2005, Roberts, when discussing why the figure from his report was too low stated that it excluded Fallujah so as not to skew the survey, and said, "And so, those who attacked us did not attack us for our methods. In fact, I think, if you read the reviews in the Wall Street Journal or The Economist, of what we did, the scientific community is quite soundly behind our approach. The criticism is of the imprecision. But realize the imprecision is: Was it 100,000 or was it 200,000? The question wasn't: Was it only 30 or 40 ? There's no chance it could have been only 30 or 40 ."

The staggering level of violence and death one of these authors has seen on the ground in Iraq certainly backs Roberts's statements and those of other journalists, like veteran Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk, who writes for the Independent. In an article on December 30, 2005, Fisk wrote: "We do not even know - are not allowed to know - how many of them have died. We know that 1,100 Iraqis died by violence in Baghdad in July alone ... But how many died in the other cities of Iraq, in Mosul and Kirkuk and Irbil, and in Amara and Fallujah and Ramadi and Najaf and Kerbala and Basra? Three thousand in July? Or four thousand? And if those projections are accurate, we are talking about 36,000 or 48,000 over the year - which makes that projected post-April 2003 figure of 100,000 dead, which Blair ridiculed, rather conservative, doesn't it?"

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Why do they even bother to print numbers as if they have
any relation to fixed meaning? Really, they will say ANYTHING.

"Earth drops out of its orbit and goes for a cheeseburger."
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well, you have to break a few eggs to make an omlet, so I guess
you have to crack a few skulls to bring peace and freedom to these little people.

George Bush is working tirelessly to do what's best for the world. He's The Leader, after all, and knows much more than any of us.

And look how the poor man has aged in office. :cry:


Yeah. Sure.


:puke:
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