Democrats call Zarqawi killing a stunt

[ECH1969]

Some Democrats, breaking ranks from their leadership, today said the death of terrorist leader Abu Musab Zarqawi in Iraq was a stunt to divert attention from an unpopular and hopeless war.

"This is just to cover Bush's so he doesn't have to answer" for Iraqi civilians being killed by the U.S. military and his own sagging poll numbers, said Rep. Pete Stark, California Democrat. "Iraq is still a mess -- get out."

President Bush said that yesterday's killing of the 39-year-old Jordanian-born terrorist offers an opportunity to "turn the tide" in the war and that Tuesday he will discuss with Iraqi leaders "how to best deploy America's resources in Iraq."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20060608-041042-9038r

[BlueStateModerate]

1. I'm going to disagree

Killing the guy isn't a stunt, it's a victory, no matter what we may think of the war.

[bunkerbuster1]

4. I agree "stunt" is not the greatest word to use

even though it's more accurate than I like to think.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Toss "stunt."

Incorporate "psy-op*."




















*Also known as bullshit, served steaming.

[rhett o rick]

19. Too many syllables for the freepers. Keep stunt. nm

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. Since stunts have cars bursting through flames and

American flag jumpsuits...I guess you're probably right.

[howmad1]

47. Two 500 pound bombs to kill one guy:

Now if that ain't a friggin stunt, I don't know what is. :mad:

[mhatrw]

50. Exactly.

No PSYOP lasts forever. Not even Zarqawi. And once your status as a PSYOP is leaked to the public, your days are numbered.

WaPo - Zarqawi is a US Military PSYOP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890.html

The NY Times Played Along: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002314713

Zarqawi - Bush's Man For All Seasons: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FJ15Ak02.html

UPI (Moonie Times) - How the US Created the Zarqawi Myth: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:2QuiYcfLZV0J:www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php%3FStoryID%3D20051110-014753-2561r+Claim:+U.S.+Created+al-Zarqawi+Myth&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

CIA Agent Says US Allowed Zarqawi to Escape: http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/us-allowed-zarqawi-to-escape/2006/04/30/1146335608444.html

How the US fuelled myth of Zarqawi the mastermind: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/04/wirq04.xml

Reputed Terrorist Al-Zarqawi Still Shrouded in U.S.-Fed Myth, Mystery: http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/1546

Zarqawi - Everywhere & Nowhere: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GG07Ak02.html

A collection of pix of our happily finally actually dead parrot: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2327738&mesg_id=2328504

A collection of previous links saying Zarqawi was dead, seriously injured or captured: http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/11/20/zarqawis-dead-again-3rd-times-a-charm-eh

From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2006/04/10/GR2006041000097.html

[laylah]

81. *

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

edited to add this is in response to Rummy's #10 comment.

[ShortnFiery]

38. Perspective People ===> REMEMBER

this story was published within The Washington Times (MoonieTimes?!?) :crazy:

Nothing more needs to be brought out.

These right wing bastards are almost becoming *boring* in their predictability.

NEXT! :P

[bunkerbuster1]

49. For the record, I apologize for falling for the Moonie Times' BS

Nowhere is a Dem quoted as using that word, "stunt."

I hearby pledge to never reply to a message without at least peeking at the source first.

[Skittles]

82. I call BULL

everything this misadministation does is a STUNT THE G.D. WAR ITSELF IS A STUNT

[coalition_unwilling]

11. Pyrrhic victory, at best. (n/t)

[rpannier]

13. I agree with you.

His death is not one I will mourn.
It is a victory.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Is Chimp being "A guy you want to have a beer with" also

a victory?

Same damn thing.

[rpannier]

48. No they aren't the same thing.

Not by a long shot.
Nice try though.
I'll let you have the beer with scrubbie. Sounds like you need it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

61. Read post #50 and get back to me.

No one is saying Z is/was a good guy. Some are just calling bullshit to the "mastermind" myth, while others eat it up like popcorn. :popcorn:

[maxsolomon]

15. victory is a bit strong

its ONE GUY, and it cost us a trillion dollars (so far) to kill him. and after he's gone, we're back to where we started.

some victory.

[mallard]

65. Re: "back to where we started"

Very well put - some victory and back to where we started; minus some previously held assets like international standing, sense of respect for human dignity, the lives of thousands, readiness to defend against any authentic enemy and now willingness to perhaps face another contrived one to Iraq's east.

If only the administration would consider their failures as failures.

Suddenly back on a role for blowing the living shit out of a house in a tight middle class neighborhood from the air, the heroic war president now wants what for his reward?

[elgati]

25. vic·to·ry Pronunciation: 'vik-t(&-)rE

Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French victorie, from Latin victoria, from victor
1 : the overcoming of an enemy or antagonist
2 : achievement of mastery or success in a struggle or endeavor against odds or difficulties
n
I don't see how the word applies to a targeted assassination.

Hmmm...what's the name of those tiny lovable toys that were popular during the 80's? Can't remember...

[BlueStateModerate]

34. Not to make a direct comparison...

But the assasination of Hitler would have been a huge victory for the Allies in WWII. While our cause isn't as honorable as it was then, al-Zarqawi is just as evil. These are bad guys, and every time the military takes a terrorist out, I'm going to be happy. That doesn't mean that we should be there, but since we are, I'll cheer for any victory for the US. A US victory is always greater than a victory for al-Qaeda.

[LynnTheDem]

36. WE are the "bad guys" here.

It's that simple...and that horrendous.

[BlueStateModerate]

41. Maybe so, but...

We certainly don't have the same moral cause that we had during WWII, but saying that we're the bad guys in comparision to terrorists is a bit rash, wouldn't you say?

[Catrina]

51. The aggressor is always the bad guy! Like it or not, that's what we are

Bush has lost the moral authority, for all US citizens by acting WORSE than the bad guys, and by succeeding in outdoing them as far as the number of people killed, maimed and tortured. Tell me how this makes us even 'sort of' the good guys here? He lied to get the support of the AMerican people because he couldn't tell them the truth. He withdrew from ICC, why? He intended to commit crimes.

Some of us objected, strenuously to the lies, and tried to stop him from committing this gross crime in the name of the American people. Other countries throughout history have suffered from the actions of criminal leaders. We who opposed the crime of attacking a nation that was no threat to us, could not stop him because of those who supported him.

If you want to fool yourself now and pretend we are any better NOW, than those we claim are the bad guys, do so. I know I'M better, personally, because I did not, do not and will not support criminal activity, even less so when it purports to represent me. We can no longer point at anyone and claim any moral authority. The world laughs at us now.

Tell the parents, brothers, sisters and children of the, possibly, over 200,000 dead Iraqis that we are the good guys. In fact, try telling that to people anywhere in the world. Thanks to the crimes of this administration (well photographed and seen everywhere except here in the US) Americans have to pretend to be Canadians in some parts of the world when they travel.

To the Iraqi people we are terrorists. When US troops break down their doors at night and haul away their loved ones, that is terrorism to them. How would you describe it were it happening here, and this country was occupied by an invading force?

So, no, I wouldn't say, thanks to this criminal administatration, there's much difference between 'terrorists' and an invading army that has killed so many innocent people.

Dead is dead, and if it was YOUR child, I imagine you wouldn't be worried about the nuanced difference between one angel of death or another.

The only way we can be the 'good guys' again is to end this war, impeach and prosecute those who started it, apologize and compensate the victims, and make sure it never happens again. But as long as we have this notion that when we kill for no reason, we're better than others who do it, we will never be the 'good guys' again. We will be what we claim to hate ~

[Nihil]

55. Excellent post.

:applause: :woohoo:

[eridani]

53. No, I wouldn't say

All the world's terrorists this century have killed a fraction of the people we have killed in Iraq alone.

[mallard]

66. Re: a bit rash?

Getting people killed for no good reason is terrorism. What's your distinction, the clothes warn by the people who send the bombs, or their prefered targets?

[BlueStateModerate]

79. Terrorists target civillians

Our troops, at least for the most part, don't. Those that do are criminals, not soldiers. This guy was nothing but a terrorist, and we should have no sympathy for his death.

[knight_of_the_star]

39. He was also reported dead in November 2004

Which one is it?

[BlueStateModerate]

40. This time.

[knight_of_the_star]

46. I'm waiting for better proof

Like DNA.

[ima_sinnic]

57. that's "proof" of anything at all?

have you ever seen "Alien Autopsy"?
played around with PhotoShop?

[hatrack]

44. Hitler was running the whole show through the structure of a nation-state

Zarqawi wasn't - he was riding herd on a loosely organized group of terrorists, and given the number of suicide bombings in the last six months I don't think their numbers were growing anyway.

That said, Zarqawi was a psychopathic son of a bitch, and I'm glad he's dead, but I don't know if him getting waxed (assuming, of course, that they haven't just killed him again for the third or fourth time)really changes much of anything.

There are still guys in Ramadi and Fallujah and Baghdad or wherever right now who are rigging wiring into 155 shells getting ready to blow our guys up, or getting ready to go murder some cops or teachers or whatever, and Zarqawi being around or not being around isn't going to change the facts on the ground - that we have 135,000-odd people on the ground trying to "control" a nation of 25 million people, many of whom don't want us there, and most of whom just wish the shitstorm would stop blowing.

Maybe it'll hurt al Qaeda C&C systems for now, but there are lots and lots of other people there who don't like us either.

[treestar]

56. At what point?

Wars are group efforts. Fought by one collective against another. Granted Hitler killed himself but if the allies had killed him late in the war, it wouldn't have mattered; the Germans were losing anyway.

Early on, I think someone else would have stepped in, and the Germans could have created just as much havoc, or close to it. Hitler would have been a martyr. They'd have blamed his assassination on the Jews.

If Hitler's mother had an abortion, it would hardly have changed everything in history. The Germans still would have resented Versailles, etc.

[The Stranger]

63. Oh boy. Now we've advanced to the "bad guys" lexicon.

I feel like I am three years old now.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

68. Textbook Godwin. (i.e. totally invalid comparison). You lose. -nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. It is a stunt

if the guy was still alive when he was turned over to US custody.

[TankLV]

37. I agree with those dems - it was a STUNT + a DISTRACTION.

yawn.

[goforit]

77. The irony? Everybody is onto the Bush/Cheney regime.

Every more reason to remove soldiers from Iraq as well.

[wildwww2]

43. Killing one cockroach when the cupboards are full of them is no victory.

It`s a great stunt if you get people to believe that it is a victory though. This war crime will still be a bloody mess when my grandchildren are old people. And my only son is still just 6 years old.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[mikelgb]

45. two 500 pound bombs

complete with media kit including video of the murder, photos of the deceased

nope no stunt here

I'm supprised they didn't take us live as they murdered him and impale his head on the gate of the white house for all the subjects to revel over

[saigon68]

54. impale his head on the gate of the white house for all the subjects

Was a standard tactic in medieval London

[Keefer]

60. All laser guided bombs...

come with the "video kit" you speak of. The system is called PAVETACK or PAVEWAY.

[JVS]

52. Yeah, "propaganda opportunity" but not a stunt.

Unless they did it by having a guy on a motorcycle jump 72 cars and land right on the guy

[The Stranger]

62. A victory for Bush's propagandists and pathological liars,

because so many cannot see through it.

[AlamoDemoc]

2. thank you Rep. Pete Stark....n/t

[NJ Democrats]

3. No Way.

He was killed, and although I don't think it will do much, it did in fact happen.

[stepnw1f]

5. That's Not What He Said at All

What bullshit is this? That title is fiction.

[muntrv]

6. Moonie Times doesn't want you to know that

the insurgency is home grown.

[matcom]

7. you post this BULLSHIT from the TIMES?

thanks. really. Bill O'Reilly thanks you. :eyes:

[PSPS]

8. Hmmm. The word "stunt" appears nowhere in the article.

Gee, I guess the headline writer (or editor) might have a bias at the Washington "Moonie" Times?

[ECH1969]

9. Then it would be best to do like I did

e-mail the article to certain people at MSNBC and CNN.

[Bretttido]

12. Definitely not a stunt, but also not a victory

Leaders do not create terrorist groups or insurgencies; leaders emerge from them. When one falls, another will soon take their place. If Bush were killed, there would still be millions of right-wingers (probably pushed even further to the right) ready to take his place.

[zanne]

78. I wonder if she'll have to recant

And resign?:) (I've just got to find that sarcasm smiley).

[w4rma]

14. That's a lot of non-quoted stuff around the smallish quotes. (nt)

[still_one]

16. I won't believe sh*t from the "washingtontimes"

they lie and distort everything

[bluestateguy]

17. Washington Times? Mods, is this a legitimate source?

nt

[janx]

71. I'm not a mod, but no, the Moonie Times is not a legit source.

It's a propaganda machine.

[6000eliot]

18. It's a stunt.

They killed the monster they created. How many times is the media going to fall for republican bullshit? How much is enough? To paraphrase Shelley, like the dog returns to his vomit, the media is returning to their idiot boy king." It makes me sick.

[pinto]

20. What BS. Nowhere in the article is the word "stunt" quoted from a Dem.

"Read closely" is always a good caveat for this spin rag.

[stepnw1f]

70. Exactly (nt)

[brentspeak]

21. Wait. Hold on. Rewind.

"This is just to cover Bush's (rear) so he doesn't have to answer" for Iraqi civilians being killed by the U.S. military and his own sagging poll numbers, said Rep. Pete Stark, California Democrat.

What's the "this" that Stark is referring to? The article implies that it's in reference to the killing of al-Zarqawi -- but it doesn't really say! What part of Stark's comments is this rag deliberately leaving out?

Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, Ohio Democrat, said Zarqawi was a small part of "a growing anti-American insurgency" and that it's time to get out.
"We're there for all the wrong reasons," Mr. Kucinich said.

On this one, there's not even a HINT of Kucinich even remotely suggesting that Zarqawi's death was some sort of a "stunt" or political ploy. But the headline and topic sentence clearly says "Democrats", plural, as if more than one Democrat suggested Zarqawi's killing was a "stunt" -- and it's likely the article deliberately misrepresented Pete Stark in the first place!

[Rex]

22. I hope they really got him this time.

Third times a charm! :eyes: I hope OBL was sitting right next to him.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

24. Lessee. Military exhibits photos of an isolated house on a tree-covered ..

.. hillside (before), aerial photos showing a bombing of a flat tree-covered area bisected by a road (during), and of rubble surrounded by other damaged houses on a flat treeless plain (after). Neighbors dispute the military's story. Exhibited head looks remarkably good, considering owner was killed by two five-hundred pound bombs; the fingerprint ID seems remarkable, considering that US previously couldn't state Zarqawi's height and weight, and one can only hope the ID wasn't done by the folk who tried to pin the Madrid bombings on Brandon Mayfield; no word yet either on how many legs the corpse has, although * himself once told us that the fellow had gone to Iraq to get his leg amputated. This all coming from the habitual liars who outed Wilson's wife to cover up their false WMD claims, seeded mainstream media with government-produced video propaganda disguised as news reporting, ... Feh! if it looks like b#llsh!t and quacks like b#llsh!t, then it's b#llsh!t

[rocktivity]

42. Was the body checked for freezer burn?

If Bush knew where he was all along and just waited for the most politically opportune moment to kill him, then yes, it WAS a stunt.

:headbang:
rocknation

[ItNerd4life]

74. LOL

Love your sarcasm behind the 'freezer burn' remark.

[MrPrax]

26. Stark in '08

The rare to see politicians speaking bluntly on our side once in awhile...

"Iraq is still a mess -- get out."

Talking Like This gets Respect...

[Orsino]

27. No. A stunt would be killing someone without a trial...

...and calling it "justice." Or inventing the word "stunt" for a slanted article.

[HuffleClaw]

29. and they'd be right

the real 'stunt' though is the media/political frenzy following the killing. pretty ghoulish if ya asks me. gloating about killing someone isn't right. and the funny thing is that it makes not one whit of difference.

BushCo. INVENTED zarqawi as the 'boogeyman' they made him to be, blamed him for everything from beheadings to the kennedy assassination (just kidding), claimed to have killed him at least twice iirc, and kept his name in the public eye though in reality he was but a bit player in the scheme of things. so, NOW who do they blame their iraqi woes on? i'm betting on a NEW boogeyman, one of IRANIAN origin.

[ReadTomPaine]

30. The US just pulled the trigger in this. Al Qaeda fingered him.

I understand he was basically turned out by his handlers in Al Qaeda and the insurgency.

Check these threads for more information..

"Interesting article from YESTERDAY: Zarqawi Scheduled for Martyrdom"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1379209

"Iraqi Insurgents FIRED Zarqawi In APRIL For Incompetence"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1381460

[ima_sinnic]

59. thanks--wish everybody would see through the BS

people, when did BushCo ever do ANYTHING that was NOT a "stunt"? sheesh, people are so easily impressed by the lying sack of scheist and his duplicitous bag of tricks.

Upthread, people are salivating over what a "victory" it was. Giving "al-Qaeda" (another myth imo) what they want, a "martyr's death" for one of their own already unwanted power-grabbing loose cannons is hardly a "victory," it's called colluding with the enemy. this was conceived as a win-win for * and for "al-Qaeda." Both "sides" (really both sides of the same coin) "win"--we are led by the nose to this vision of "victory" while at the same time "al-Qaeda" has a martyr and is rid of someone they fired back in April anyway, who wouldn't play nice and just quietly fade away. This is out of the same playbook as:
--strutting around on aircraft carrier flight deck declaring "end of major combat" with a straight face
--toppling of Hussein statue -- manufactured photo-op
--rescue of Jessica Lynch -- overblown fictionalized account
--capture of Hussein -- exaggerated claims, doubtlessly embellished, the guy was handed to us and as I understand it was not even in that "hidey hole"
there's more, but my brain isn't completely functioning yet, I think the point is made.

[iamjoy]

33. The Iraqi War Is A STUNT

The debate over gay marriage is a stunt, as is the debate over raising the fines for supposed indecency in broadcasting. This administration pulls more stunts than an action flick.

But, I don't feel the killing of this butt head was meant to be a distraction.

[LynnTheDem]

35. when we catch Saddam all will be well... after elections in Iraq

all will be well... after the next election in Iraq, all will be well...

Uh huh.

So let's see how well things will be now.

:eyes:

Hell yeah it's nothing but a stunt.

[zanne]

58. NO Democrat used the word "stunt"..

This article sites ONE Democrat, Pete Stark(D)California, of "hinting" that it was a stunt. The author is taking liberties with the truth. I expect to see alot more of this type of journalism until November.

[robcon]

64. Exactly. The article has nothing to do with the headline.

WashTimes. What do you expect?

[noonwitch]

67. I don't see why dems can't say that they are glad this guy is gone

It still doesn't justify why we went to war, but it is very good for the military that this guy is no longer a threat.

[brentspeak]

69. Maybe the reason you "don't see" it is because of a reading problem

Even this hit-piece of an article was forced to insert this:

""That is good news; he was a dreadful, vicious person," said Sen. Kent Conrad, North Dakota Democrat. Mr. Conrad added that he hopes the military can get Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri, another top al Qaeda leader.
"They're even more important," he said.
Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, Michigan Democrat, said it was good news but added, "I think we have a long way to go."

Every other article outside the Washington Slimes has printed the multitude of Democratic congrats for a job well done.

[skip fox]

72. Jesus. Can't anyone read? "Stunt" was never used or even approached

by the Democrats quoted. They simply told the truth.

"Stunt" was a stunt by the right-winged Washington Times knowing people would remember and react to the lie, not the truth.

Maybe we would do well to read.

[humbled_opinion]

73. STUNT

Definitions of 'stunt' (stŭnt) - The American Heritage® Dictionary

stunt (v.) To check the growth or development of.
stunt (n.) One that stunts.
stunt (n.) A feat displaying unusual strength, skill, or daring.

Sorry no stunt here... Just another dead guy caught in this mess.

[pinniped]

75. The POS is attempting to get tons of mileage on this mythical dude.

No shit he was a stunt, a propaganda stunt propelled by the US.

"turn the tide"

[spanone]

76. Washington Times is a right-wing propaganda rag.

[dansolo]

80. "Some Democrats"

Notice how none of the Democrats who were quoted in the article used the word "stunt", and the article never identifies which Democrats they are referring to. I think this is a case of creative editing on the part of the person writing the title of the article. It seems to me that the distraction that Democrats are referring to is the coverage of the death of Zarqawi, not the death itself. The title of the article helps to feed the GOP spin of Democrats being pro-terrorist.