Gay Music Director Let Go By Kansas Catholic parish

[ruggerson]

The Pope and Co. strike again. Destroying yet more lives.



http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/14683632.htm

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Joseph Nadeau prayed for storms when he was an altar boy, hoping the lights would go out and he'd be picked to play the church's creaking organ to celebrate Holy Mass. Now in his mid-thirties, Nadeau's bold spiritual arrangements have brought dozens of parishioners to his suburban parish in Roeland Park, Kan.

But last Sunday, Nadeau ended his last Mass at St. Agnes Catholic Church with a wrenching solo on "God Help the Outcasts." It was his other life, as the artistic director of one of the nation's largest gay male choirs, that ultimately cost him his job.

"I've known I was gay since I was 15 or 16," said the soft-spoken Nadeau at his brick home in Kansas City. "My parish priest told me just follow your heart and you can't go wrong. I can't think of doing anything else."

The Roman Catholic Church views homosexual acts as "intrinsically disordered," and in November held that priests who support "so-called gay culture" cannot be ordained. While Vatican teachings also instruct that gays and lesbians should be treated with compassion, church employees are expected to live in accordance with Catholic doctrine.

[IntravenousDemilo]

1. Yeah, like they're gonna find a STRAIGHT music director who's any good...

Gay taste is good taste. It's like fashion designers. If straight people were in charge of the fashion industry, all men would dress like lumberjacks and all women would dress like hookers.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Or the women would wear potato sacks eom

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. My best friend is a music director at a church

and she is heterosexual. She also does a damn good job.

I think I will forward your post to her. She probably needs a good laugh.

[IntravenousDemilo]

89. So...?

Did she laugh?

Oh, and enjoy your Blibbing. Blib away. Blib with pride.

[Voltaire99]

74. "Gay taste is good taste."

One word: Liberace.

[IntravenousDemilo]

88. Liberace was...was... was gay?

:wow:

I mean, he was so obviously non-fabulous! He won that lawsuit and everything!


(OK, point taken. OTOH, he wasn't a designer. Good musician, though.)

[Ian David]

2. That's okay. With prayer and repairative therapy and counseling...

most Catholics can eventually become happy, productive Protestants.

I hear United Church of Christ and The Unitarians are very nice.

[dddem]

3. amen

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I've met quite a few people

at the Dances of Universal Peace who call themselves "recovering Catholics". BTW, Sufis invite everyone, as does Unity, and both grups love muscians.

[xchrom]

9. all they have to do is drop the pope to become episcopalian.

we welcome EVERYONE.

[bliss_eternal]

75. episcopalians ROCK!

Seriously--I'm more comfortable in the episcopal church than catholic church.

:hi:

[noahmijo]

13. With that logic I am going to assume you are a Nazi

because in America today's Nazis embrace the Protestant faith therefore ALL Protestants must be Nazis.

[Ian David]

21. You have failed to bridge the sar-chasm. n/t

[sofa king]

27. The bridge of irony?

[msongs]

16. unitarians of riverside are very nice, come join us :-) nt

[CatholicEdHead]

6. These are disgraceful Catholics who kicked him out

They went above the Priest's head on this. From the article:

Under his direction, the music program grew to include two children's choirs, youth and contemporary ensembles, and a Spanish-language musical liturgy. But in 2003, a group of conservative parishioners started campaigning against Nadeau, who they saw as an emissary of a movement to "legitimize homosexuality at the parish level."

Members collected signatures on petitions to the papal nuncio, while an anonymous group stapled pictures of Nadeau to ads of underwear-clad men and slipped them under churchgoers' windshields, he said.

Later that year, former Kansas City Archbishop James Keleher told Nadeau if he kept his two jobs separate, he did not see a problem with his other position.

The leadership at the archdiocese changed last year. In January, Nadeau said Applegate informed him that his membership in a "gay-affirming" group kept him from living out church doctrine.

He could have a slander case with what that group did. But it all came down to a new Archbishop who appears to be much more conservative/doctrinal. :(

Edit: here is the new Archbishop who forced him out.
http://www.archkck.org/Arch%20Bishop/archbishop.asp

Actually the new Archbishops May 06 Pastoral letter takes up the homosexual bashing.

http://www.theleaven.com/columnistsnaumann052606.htm

:puke:

[acmavm]

8. How dare you not paint all Catholics (or whatever group is under

discussion in any current thread) with the same brush. You know if there's one bad apple, or a few bad apples, then they're ALL BAD.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. My entire family is Catholic

My uncle is a priest. My cousin is a nun.

And I can assure you they are good people. I know without even asking that my uncle is very upset about this. He taught me when I was a child to be tolerant of ALL people, regardless of sexual orientation.

[bliss_eternal]

76. A relative left her catholic church

and sought a different one, when hers denounced and shunned gay members and an African American family was treated poorly by some of the members. She was disgusted. She found a church more open to ALL and is happier there. :)

[IntravenousDemilo]

90. The new archbishop is such a total gay-boy.

Look at his gay eyes. And his gown -- it's not just gay, it's GAYGAYGAY! What a closet case...

[movonne]

7. These are very sad times we live in...churches don't believe in

what Jesus taught..how can anything like what they did in Kansas be considered the teachings of Christ..

[noahmijo]

12. "If Jesus were alive today he would not be a Christian" -Mark Twain

Amen.

But my favorite

The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born.
- Mark Twain

[Iowa]

70. There's a reason for that...

"...churches don't believe in what Jesus taught..."

No, churches don't believe - people do. A church is somewhat like a corporation in that it has "no soul to be damned and no body to be kicked". I place the blame where it belongs, which in this case appears to be on the head of Joe Naumann. Often the people at the top of the hierarchy are the biggest asses - just like in the workplace.

I am a Catholic. Why? That subject is far too complex to address here, but suffice it to say that my faith is not rooted in the pronouncements, deeds, or misdeeds of clerics - far from it. I don't grant them permission to influence my actions or my beliefs, and then despair when they let me down. I assume complete responsibility.

That being said, I do not contribute one dime to my parish or diocese, and have not done so for my entire adult life (a matter of decades). Why? I decided long ago that I have an obligation to help where it is needed most, and there have always been (and probably always will be) far more urgent needs than parish/church programs. In more recent years I have a second reason to withhold support: many clerics in the church have caused harm, they continue to cause harm, they have wasted resources that are so desperately needed elsewhere, and my conscience opposes much of what they are doing - the subject of this thread being only one of many examples. So I remain to fight for change from within, while withholding financial support.

The clerics are not the church. It is much bigger than that.

[pinerow]

85. Great Post...!!!

My feelings exactly...keep the faith!!

[Iowa]

91. Thanks pinerow...

So many seem to think that being a Catholic means buying in to every utterance, made by every cleric, who happens to bumble his way into the news. Nothing could be further from the truth. If our faith was rooted in the quality of our clerics, I'm afraid I'd be long gone by now. But it isn't.

[xchrom]

10. hate is as easy to spread as butter on bread.

[tabasco]

78. If only love were so easy to spread.

It would be a much nicer world.

[xchrom]

11. is there some way we can let this parish know

the love that du wants to share with them.

[CatholicEdHead]

14. Here is the parish link

http://www.stagneskc.org/

http://church.stagneskc.org/

Even though in my post #7, it was a "live and let live" relationship until the new Bishop took over. I bet many in this parish are quite supportive of the former music director. The Archbishop would be the one with power to contact, though more than likley he will brush it off easily.

Here is their contact info page:

http://www.archkck.org/Chancery/chancery.asp

Remember to keep any critizism clean and civilized, anything else will be counterproductive.

[xchrom]

15. my intention is to let them know what the whole du community thinks.

nothing anybody can say will be more obscene than their actions.

what they did was evil -- and they should know that it did not remain isolated and people of the american community are not blind or mute to their hat.

ler 'er rip.

[bliss_eternal]

77. When you contact them--

please include my name, too.

[saltpoint]

24. Thank you, CatholicEdHead for these links. I will contact

them to express support for Nadeau and will follow your advice on tone, too.

Although in my heart-of-hearts, that email message should begin: "Dear bigoted shitheads..."

:hi:

[CatholicEdHead]

28. Thanks, while it may make you feel better by saying that

it often hurts your case than helps in with situations like this.

[saltpoint]

32. No, no. I didn't use that introduction! I was using it in this thread

as a gauge of my objection. I'm staid to a fault in my formal correspondence!

I did just send the letter, expletive-free. It read:

Mr. John English
Parish Administrator,

Dear Mr. English:

I write in support of Joseph Nadeau. While I am aware that the new bishop is of one mind on this matter, it would seem to even a casual observer of the minstry of Jesus that inclusion and redemption are more to the point of our earthly missions, as opposed to exclusion and exile.

I am flatly ashamed of the Bishop for this action and I call him to answer to the tenets of the ministry of Christ.

This objection is not directed at you personally, please understand. I write in support of a talented man whose gifts put joyous uplift in congregants' ears on many days of many weeks throughout the year. That a bishop should trump the direct benefit congregants experience from Joseph Nadeau is unacceptable, not to mention un-Christian.

Please bring to bear your influence upon others in the church hierarchy to rise to the defense of a man deserving of that defense. Please feel free to forward copies of this letter to anyone in your congregation you wish.

Thank you for your consideration.

(signature)

_______________

[rug]

26. His name is still there as the organist.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

62. This wouldn't happen in my parish.

We have a number of obviously gay teachers, musicians, and administrators.

But it drives me absolutely crazy when I read about this kind of shit going on in my Church--and I'm straight.

And it challenges me to be civil, as you rightly request. I want to scream 'fuck off' at them. I want to disrupt their services.

I am finding it harder and harder to maintain civility when dealing with uncivil people. They call it a 'culture war,' and I'm really tempted to start fighting back.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I live nearby; how can I help?

[xchrom]

25. i want them to know this story is getting around.

and what others think about it.

i wanted to be sure that this thread -- and if we can keep it kicked and commented on gets to people in the parish.

nothing can be uglier than what they did to this man so i'm unconcerned by what people say.

they should know that people all over the country count this as evil and despicable.

if only three people commnet on it -- it's not useful.

individual e-mails can be kept from the parishoners.

two can play at the game of pariah.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Let me know

I can hand deliver letters or whatever you guys decide. Mu uncle used to be a priest in this archdiocese. I know this would upset him a lot. I am hoping he didn't read the paper this morning.

[xchrom]

37. well i'm all the way in cali.

and the only way this can really hit home is if gets to the ''church ladies'' -- you know those regular church goers -- the ones who do everything from the casserole brigade to coffee after service to outreach in uganda.

that their actions -- yes their actions -- have them thought of as barbarians and savages in other parts of the country.

du is extremely diverse -- from alaska to texas and hawaii to new york and americans living over seas.

if this thread were to stay kicked and and pages of the responses managed to find their way to windshields on a sunday -- or inside the church... welll...

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. kick

There's a start for you.

[xchrom]

42. right on.

[xchrom]

43. kick

[saltpoint]

33. Hi, proud2Blib. If you have a home address for Joseph Nadeau,

I will send to him a copy of the letter I just sent to the Parish Administrator.

I'm afraid of sending it to the church, for fear it would be confiscated.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Give me time to find it

My puter is very slow today and of course I have no idea where the phone book is in my house. If I can't find his address, I have a co-worker who attends this church. I will ask her for his address.

When I get it I will PM you.

[saltpoint]

40. Thank you, Proud2Blib. Much appreciated.

Mr. Nadeau could probably use a little support about now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. He is not in the phone book

I will email my co-worker.

[saltpoint]

44. Ok. Thanks for the extra steps.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Maybe you can try emailing him?

I can get my work email at home. Maybe he can too and he is still on the email group.

[e-mail]

[saltpoint]

46. Right, but what if he has been removed from the Church servers,

or what if they are intercepting his email?

I don't want him in more trouble.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Why would a supportive email get him in trouble?

And how much more trouble can he be in? He already lost his job.

I am thinking a flood of emails could overwhelm that server and send a very powerful message to the bigots at that church.

Here's the deal. I have lived in this community all my life. My son went to high school right next door to St. Agnes. So I know this community very well. And I can assure you this is a progressive suburban community. Anti gay crap is not common here. Kansas City is a (relatively) gay friendly community. This story is very shocking to me.

Recently, in response to Fred Phelps and the marriage amendment in Kansas, a statewide group was formed to combat the crap in our state. I went to the first meeting here in this county - right down the street from St. Agnes in fact - and there were so many people there it was standing room only!! We don't play the we hate gay people card here.

Here is the website for the group I mentioned.

http://www.kansasequalitycoalition.org/

And our local chapter

http://www.kansasequalitycoalition.org/johnsoncounty/index.php

I honestly think if this church received LOTS of letters disapproving of the firing of this music director, we will touch the conscience of at least a few parishioners.

[saltpoint]

52. My concern was that Church administrators would intercept the

email and it would never reach Joe Nadeau.

I will be happy to join any list of people writing in support of Nadeau. I've already emailed the Parish Administrator.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Let me contact the KEC

DUer Muse Rider is on the statewide board of directors. I would hope they are preparing a repsonse to this despicable act as I type this.

[saltpoint]

58. MuseRider is a class act, no question. If you two are in Kansas

then Kansas is the better off for it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Oh thank you! I hope she sees this!

But I know this article will upset her.

[saltpoint]

60. I just put in an email inquiry for contact email for Joe Nadeau to

the Heartland Men's Chorus. They're in KC, MO, and according to the article ruggerson posted in the OP, Nadeau was a member of that group.

I hope when they get back from the Memorial Day weekend, they'll have something for us also.

'Will let you know.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Good idea!!

[saltpoint]

49. I emailed the webmaster of the St. Agnes site, asking for Joe Nadeau's

new email.

I'd like to think they are not opening his mail, or I would just send a letter to him in care of the Church.

But a Church that would fire him for being gay doesn't inspire much confidence about mail-handling.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. The more I read about this, Crusoe,

I think it was a small group of conservative members who knew the new archbishop would most likely support their desire to have this guy fired.

Let me know if you get a response. I am so embarrassed by this on behalf of all the good people in Johnson County, Kansas.

[saltpoint]

56. Proud2Blib, I will PM you if I hear back on anything.

I think your theory is correct.

In another post in this thread I wonder outloud how any religious official -- Catholic, Protestant, you name it -- explains to their congregants about Jonathan and David, or about Jesus and the Beloved Disciple.

I think any church makes a grievous error in sending lesbian and gay people into exile. From my reading of the scriptures, it's completely out of line, and well into 'cruel.'

I promise to get back to you if I hear anything.

Thanks for your extra steps.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Wow that church is in my neighborhood

I also didn't realize the Heartland's Men's Chorus is gay.

Damn bigots.

I am sooooo glad I am no longer Catholic.

[closeupready]

20. This makes me want to write a letter in protest to the RCC.

This type of thing is what drives people away from the church (small c).

[saltpoint]

22. In a kind of non-denominational approach, I'm wondering how

any church official explains to congregants about David and Jonathan.

Am I reading that passage wrong, or was there not a clear attraction of one for the other?

Should we boot them out of the Bible for being gay?

How about that passage later on in the NT about the Beloved Disciple laying his head on Jesus' chest for comfort?

Should we boot those two out also?

My thought is, if this man was a gifted musician and puts sounds of affirmation and uplift in the ears of the church's congregants, he should be valued more highly than he apparently is.

I hope the congregants of the church rise to his defense and insist that he remain in his post.

[Cha]

23. Get the Hell outta

Kansas! Maybe it's not the place for you, Joseph Nadeau..but now I'm thinking all of Catholicdom.

We knew ratzo would be a hypocritical fink when he got in.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Maybe that isn't an option for him

I live in Kansas. It is my home so I choose to stay here. Maybe he does too.

[Cha]

35. That's true..I knew I

might catch some flak for my comment. Sorry..I'm just one for going where I think whatever I need in my life will make me happier, but I know that isn't an option for some people.

[MuseRider]

71. zidzi

some of us choose to stay and fight. It is paying off. These things will continue to happen but there are people now in place to fight this. We are having some success. I choose to stay. Won't you all be surprised when we toss over the Marriage Amendment, teach evolution once again? I understand what you are saying but things never get better if everyone concerned or marginalized runs away. We are on it.

[Cha]

81. Good to know! I'm

proud of you all!

[Kenergy]

30. n/t

[noel adamson]

31. Too bad he's not a pedophile...he could become a priest...

[Cha]

36. Exactly! And then ratzo

could ignore it.

[bitchkitty]

84. Get real - suggesting that all priests

are pedophiles because of the actions of a few is something I'd expect to read on FreeRepublic.com, not here.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. That is not what he is saying, at least I didn't take it that way

I for one find it unreal that the church will fire a gay man after many years of ignoring and hiding the problem of priests molesting children. Which is more damaging to the church and its members? Children being molested -or- the sexual orientation of the guy directing the choir on Sunday?

[BooScout]

47. And it's crap like this that caused me to walk away...

....from organized religion. It's not just in Kansas either....it's all over the world. There was violence in Russia today because of a gay march.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5023466.stm

<snip>

"Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov said he had banned the march because he believed homosexuality was not natural and because the event would cause outrage in society - a position supported by many Christian and Muslim groups."

----------------------------

If any DUer who is religious belongs to a church that discriminates against gays then they themselves continue to perpetuate such hate. I'll paint a broad brush on this one. If you continue to support any such church you support the hate.

[saltpoint]

48. If anybody would like the Archbishop's office email, it is;

_ _ _ _ _

[e-mail]

_ _ _ _ _

I second CatholicEdHead's recommendation in #14 in this thread to maintain a civil tone. I just sent an email letter stating my support for Joseph Nadeau, but did not use any strident language.

I emphasized the inclusion and redemptive nature of Jesus' message, as opposed to condemnation and exile of others.

[saltpoint]

50. A kick into 50.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. This is ridiculous

I would say that at least half, if not a majority, of church musicians are gay.

Good luck on filling the position if heterosexuality is a requirement.

[MuseRider]

63. Get this to the JoCo KEC chapter.

I will go and send this to Steve right now. Thanks for the heads up Proud, I just got home. I will get on this right now.

Edit I just sent out an alert.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Thanks Muse

Let me know what I can do. This is my neighborhood. I am just livid about this.

[MuseRider]

66. We will try.

I am not certain what the JoCo chapter will do, it will be up to them since it is their area but we can write letters etc. and at least let them know that this kind of thing will not stand without criticism and action. I will update if I hear of anything, bad weekend to try to find anyone at home.

[saltpoint]

67. Hello to you, MuseRider.

Please let me know if I can help with those letters.

'Would be very happy to help.

[MuseRider]

68. Hey there!

I have not seen you around lately, I have been in and out. Hope you are well. :hi:

I will post something as soon as I hear. I think letters might be a great start, they need to know that we know what they are up to.

[saltpoint]

69. Agreed, and I'll stand by for any updates.

Always at the ready for some letters, too.

[MuseRider]

64. #5 to the Greatest Page

so we can keep up with it.

[keopeli]

72. Gay Director Fired by Catholic Church conducts 20th Anniv. of Gay Chorus

This is Joseph Nadeau. After being fired by his catholic church for being...being...GAY, some feel like lashing out against the Catholic church. OK, but that institution moves at a millennial pace. Remember, all their services were still in Latin until the 60s. LATIN! Sheesh! And they asked Mr. Nadeua to take a vow of celibacy! Just look at this handsome man! Cruel people, the Catholics.

But, I'm in a good mood after a fun evening with a gentleman friend of mine, so I thought I'd rather learn about the people that are supporting Mr. Joseph P. Nadeau through this trying time:

The Homeland Men's Chorus of Kansas City

From their website: The Heartland Men's Chorus provides excellence in performance while advancing men's choral music, building a sense of community, and reaching out to diverse audiences.

http://www.hmckc.org/

Gay Choruses have become a robust meeting place for gay and gay-friendly people since the 1980s with n growing presence in our culture. Currently, the only Professional Choir in the US is an all male chorus from San Francisco, Chanticleer, that hasn't embraced the gay branding idea in order to make their product more marketable. About 200 choruses nationwide exist that identify themselves as "gay choruses."

While the early years of formation for GALA, the Gay and Lesbian Chorus Association, certainly emphasized the community and diversity missions, some choruses have become well-known for their quality musical performances and recordings.

The Homeland Men's Chorus of Kansas City certainly takes a more conservative tack in their publicity than our local Seattle Lesbian and Gay Chorus, any gay individual who finds themselves stuck in the social quagmire of mid-West ethics has a place to turn where they will be welcomed with open arms and a lot of sympathetic ears.

Whether the Homeland Men's Chorus is the finest choir in Kansas City is beside the point when you consider the dual mission of these types of organizations. Still, they may end up surprising us all.

If you've heard this choir, or have friends in this choir, I encourage you to post your experiences and comments.

Meanwhile, take a look at the site and their upcoming 20th Anniversary concert.

--

PS - In the interest of disclosure, I have a masters and doctors degree in choral conducting and am the conductor of a church choir in Seattle that welcomes anyone who is brave enough to join us on a Sunday morning!

[xchrom]

73. kick for sunday crew

[cap]

79. Nadeau is being kicked out because of a "sin"

so, will his replacement be "pure"???

Poor guy... i know how it feels not to be in communion with the church... my mother went to church for many years and did not receive communion. Never told us the reason. Finally, reconciled with the church after my father's death.

It is a sad thing to sit in the pew and not be a part.

Why does the church do things like this? Even in the prison ministeries, they take a gentle approach to people who have truly violated God's law.

[BiggJawn]

80. A church organist is gay? Wow! It'd be News if he was STR8

Yes, I know there are STR8 organists, but as a former member of the ATOS, I've known more Gay key ticklers.

[donco6]

82. Ultimate "Christian" retaliation:

"Under his direction, the music program grew to include two children's choirs, youth and contemporary ensembles, and a Spanish-language musical liturgy. But in 2003, a group of conservative parishioners started campaigning against Nadeau, whom they saw as an emissary of a movement to "legitimize homosexuality at the parish level."

"Members collected signatures on petitions to the papal nuncio, while an anonymous group stapled pictures of Nadeau to ads of underwear-clad men and slipped them under churchgoers' windshields, he said.


It's this type of Christianity that makes me believe Hell is a better option.

[Patiod]

83. He should have married a nice Catholic girl

and made her life miserable, much as the closeted gay Catholic who married my cousin did. Of course after a few years, living a lie became too much, and she was devestated, since her church makes divorcees into pariahs.

My heart goes out to the people who try to "live their faith" and deny their orientation, but for God's sake, why take other people, unwittingly, with you on your journey?

BTW, this is one of the few arguments that pierces the thick skulls of my devout Catholic relatives: "So these people should marry heterosexuals and try to be straight? Maybe may YOUR son or daughter - would you prefer your child marry someone who is pretty comfortable in their heterosexuality, or someone who is 'struggling against homosexuality'? I thought so."

[bliss_eternal]

87. Afternoon kick....

:kick: :kick: :kick: