S.C. Approves Seeking Death for Pedophiles

[Judi Lynn]

S.C. Approves Seeking Death for Pedophiles
S.C. Senate Approves Seeking Death Penalty for Repeat Child Rapists

By SEANNA ADCOX

COLUMBIA, S.C. Mar 28, 2006 (AP)— The state Senate on Tuesday endorsed making repeat child rapists eligible for the death penalty, setting aside arguments the move might be unconstitutional.

"What we've got to do today is vote our conviction," said Republican Sen. Larry Martin.

The proposal allows prosecutors to seek the death penalty for sex offenders who are convicted twice of raping a child younger than 11.

Currently in South Carolina, murder is the only crime eligible for the death penalty.
(snip/...)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1779420

[Demeter]

1. Seems a Tough Case To Make

but they are welcome to waste their time trying--much better than some of the other garbage fundies try to pull.

[madeline_con]

4. DNA in a child is not a tough case.

Where was the indication in the article that they had to be fundies to come up with this?

[madeline_con]

2. Only if they're positive he's the guy. eom

[Vidar]

39. Fine by me.

[Born Free]

103. Only if they're positive he's the guy. eom

To clarify: ONLY if it IS a guy , generally woman that are nice looking don't face any penalty for having sex with underage boys.

As a guy I can say that if a nice looking woman had taken me aside at a much earlier age to teach me about sex, I would have been grateful, just more time in my life to enjoy it. Most guys I know really don't have a problem with a nice looking woman/girl showing a boy the ropes....we would probably envy him. Not too long ago a female school bus driver got arrested for allegedly molesting a mentally handicapped student, she wasn't pretty so she got nailed pretty hard, but in reality it was probably the only sex either one would get in their life.

[Redstone]

3. I'm all for it. I'll throw the switch myself if they can't find anyone

else to do it. And not lose a moment's sleep for having done so.

Redstone

[Deja Q]

5. As a victim of such "activity" from those "people"...

Hire me to pull the switch.

I'll enjoy flicking it every single time.

They hurt children.

And for many, these effects linger into adulthood and never go away.

I've overcome a lot. But I can only fathom how many others have been violated.

Fry 'em. Good riddance.

And at least they can't molest the unborn.

Convince me otherwise, I'll listen.

[Iris]

8. I got nothing.

While I pretty much oppose the death penalty, there's not much to argue against here.

[barb162]

16. I'd rather listen to your point of view

I think you're right (or lock them up for life, not 3 years or 10 years)

[Buford Pusser]

34. How many others are YOU willing to harm?

Okay, can we all agree? Pedophiles hurt children.

But the death penalty, even of pedophiles, hurts innocent people as well.

It doesn't hurt just the family of the killed criminal. Or his friends.

The death penalty makes killers out of 12 ordinary citizens, the jurors.

It makes killers of the judge, the prosecutor, the warden, everyone involved in the system, including the victim.

They walk through life with this merciless identity. And we know know from victims' rights studies that those involved in death penalty cases (as opposed to imprisonment) have higher incidences of divorce, disease, death, all the usual suspects of social ills.

Okay, so pulling the switch repeatedly makes you feel good.

It really wouldn't.

And you'd harm a multitude of people in the process.

And other victims, if they thought as you do, would multiply that "multitude" of harm by all the number of death penalty cases carried out all over the union.

Life imprisonment is the better choice. It's also the more realistic choice, given that the death penalty for anything but murder and treason is unconstitutional.

Buford Pusser

[zanne]

54. I knew we'd hear from alot of regressives about this one.

For a liberal website, there are an awful lot of people here who don't blink at the idea of putting somebody to death. This is a regressive idea that appeals to the basest in our natures. Revenge killing doesn't solve problems. And no, I'm not sympathetic to child molesters. I just think that, as the progressive fraction of a society that considers itself enlightened, it's out of character to be calling for people's executions as a means of revenge.

[pberq]

85. Absolutely. I highy reccommend reading Sister Helen Prejean's books

I heard a lecture by Sister Helen this year, and believe me, it was one of the greatest talks I have ever heard.

Please understand this in NO WAY is an endrsement of rape, murder, or any other heinous crime. The problems with the death penalty are many. First of all, it usually only applies to those who can't afford a good lawyer. Second, many innocent people are sent to death row by overzealous DAs (see Sister Helen's new book). Third, as mentioned above, revenge killings solve nothing. For more, see Sister Helen's books, starting with this one:

"The Death of Innocents: An Eyewitness Account of Wrongful Executions"

http://www.deathofinnocents.net/

[Lars39]

55. Interesting user name.

Welcome to DU! :toast:
My brother worked for a small-town sheriff and met Buford Pusser.

[WhiteTara]

66. they never stop

pull the switch.

[Mandate My Ass]

81. well put

It's not a deterrant so there is no excuse or place for it in a civilized society.

Besides, putting a pedophile behind bars for life keeps the rest of us safe and the pedophiles get to find out what it feels like to be preyed upon without hope of mercy.

[Big_Mike]

102. Frankly, take it one step further

Release them to the general population. State doesn't have to fund a capital case. If the prisoner survives, more power to him.

But I bet he won't.

Even murderers and those who drug our children have standards, and pedophiles don't meet those standards. They are convicted and are to serve a life sentence. It's just somewhat shorter than the actuarial standards suggest.

[madmark]

88. even if you argue away the value of retribution as a basis for

execution with the points you made above (Im on the fence with respect to retribution), you would still get a specific deterrence that you are not getting today and that would be enough for me. I disagree with the your last point that the death penalty is unconstitutional when applied to child sex crimes.

[pberq]

91. deterrence??? show me some statistics to support that.

The fact is that anyone with enough money to get a good lawyer can avoid the death penalty. Right now, approximately 90% of people on death row had court-appointed counsel. However, only about 2% of those convicted of murder get the death sentence.

So this violates the constitution in its practice - the death penalty is served overwhelming against the poor.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. the end of the catholic church as they knew it.

[darkism]

94. ZING!

To actually add some substance, this idea is appalling. Nobody deserves to be killed by the state, no matter what they are accused of having done.

[Bluzmann57]

7. Tough call

I am opposed to the death penalty, but am even more opposed to pedophiles. And repeat offenders are the dirtiest of the dirty bastards who populate our country. A better punishment may be toisolate them for life. No communication whatsoever with the outside world. No phone, no magazines, no newspapers, no TV, no radio, nothing. Two showers a week, two spare meals a day. They would die or go completely insane soon enough I suspect.

[discordian]

89. works for me... dig a pit...

Dig a hole, toss them in, cover with something heavy, walk away. I'm not so sure about this "no violation should cost you your life" business. Life, in and of itself, really is not precious or special. It can be if you make it to be, but anyone engaging in these activities, is not making life special or precious for anyone. We think of our society as "enlightened", but we really have no idea about enlightenment.

No one is special. We are the all singing, all dancing, crap of the world.

[babylonsister]

9. Repeat child rapists, beyond a shadow of a doubt, no question. nt

[bluemarkers]

10. seems like it would be cheaper

to lock repeat offenders away and throw away the key. or to remove the offending parts.

imo, though, pedophilia ia a tremendous problem and needs serious attention from law makers. They have prefered to focus on too many non issues lately. Maybe this is a good start. I am against the death penalty, but will admit, that these monsters makes me question my position.

[KAZ]

11. Death is the ultimate penalty for those who carry it out.

Easy way out for the convicted. Don't understand why the vengeful can't figure that out. FWIW.

And until there is equal representation (justice) under the law, regardless of the ability to pay for defense lawyers, you can shove your death penalty. In fact, shove it regardless. I don't know about rape, but I can set up anyone for crimes that would land you in prison for years, and require you to register as an offender. Our courts are not perfect. Do you honestly think you can't be framed?

That said, lock up the pedophiles for life.

[patdem]

12. As much as I would love to personally kill all pedophiles...there is a

deterrant here...TO NOT KILL THE CHILD..if you get death weather you kill or not kill why not kill? Eliminate the witness..and hope for the best? THAT IS WHY THE DEATH PENALTY WAS TAKEN OFF OF RAPE...to STOP the rapist from killing...DUH!

[Demeter]

13. Good Point

See my first point--it keeps fundies off the streets confusing other issues...life in prison for pedophiles is a fate worse than death, and they know it. The other prisoners don't approve or excuse their crimes.

[reprobate]

32. Life in the general prison population often IS a death penalty.

[Zynx]

90. Particularly with any crime relating to children.

Even among rapists, murderers, arsonists, etc child rape and child murder is simply not accepted.

[MrSlayer]

100. Yeah, it's too bad that the pedos get put in PC.

So they get protection from what they deserve. Otherwise the inmates would tear them apart. Occasionally a CO will look the other way and one of the bastards will get shanked but mostly they get three hots and a cot while masturbating over their memories of torturing kids only to get paroled and do it again.

[LostinVA]

15. Yup, that's been proven

[Old and In the Way]

20. Actually, I hadn't thought about that, but I suspect you are correct.

The law of unintended consequences...

[fshrink]

93. Yes, but who cares about

reason, philosophy, general moral principles? Like the man says, it's about "voting your conviction". Just like for everything else these days.

[lastknowngood]

14. Good you can't fix these people and they torture children as long

as the live. The sooner the better.
Child molesters
Rapists
Murders

deserve death. Some times you can make a case to spare the murderer but not the other two.

As liberal as I am and I'm damn liberal we don't need these people. You can't fix them, you can only stop them, and there is only one way to be sure.

[rpannier]

24. As others have pointed out.

These people would probably murder the child after molesting them.

[movonne]

17. The repugs better be careful on this one..this could take in a lot of

them..

[Old and In the Way]

18. Good, we can do with less Republicans.

[ellie]

50. Ha! I just read this on

another group I visit:

"That should thin out the republitards'

http://www.armchairsubversive.com/

[Tight_rope]

82. Yeah....I totally agree....Fry em'

[Charlie Brown]

19. abortion doctors and homosexuals will be next

then advocates of stem-cell research and birth control, free-speech advocates, libertarians, "secularists," intraveneous-fertilization patients, and anyone accused of "indecency."

I'm not comparing any of these to pedophiles, but I can see the same rhetoric being directed at any one of them. The death penalty is wrong.

[Jack_DeLeon]

21. I could sort of support this...

When I saw the thread title I was worried that that it would be something stupid like labelling people who have consensual sex with 14-17 year olds as pedophiles and that they should be put to death.

I could see how someone who rapes a 10 year old deserves to die especially for repeat offenders.

[Ian David]

48. My only problem is I don't trust the government to determine guilt anymore

I don't have a problem executing people who repeatedly rape 11 year olds.

My problem is that I don't believe the government is competent or impartial enough to determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in a death penalty case.

And by "the government," I'm talking about the entire system from the street cops to the crime labs to the prosecutor to the judges to the White House.

[Blue_Tires]

113. that's my thought as well

[THUNDER HANDS]

22. why child rapists and not adult rapists?

is a woman's life supposed to mean less than a child's?

Fuck all sex predators. I don't have a firm opinion on this one way or the other, but I just want consistency. Either give the chair to all sex preators - or none of them.

Have a public list for sex predators and other violent criminals and people convicted of robbery and home invasions, or don't have a public list of any kind.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

33. really !!!....a child UNDER the age of 11..What about the 11 & 12 yr olds?

tatoo their faces & hands !!
PERMANENTLY
and manditory jail time for removing it

[LostinVA]

42. I think all rapists should get life in prison w/out parole -- Period

Regardless of the victim's age. By the time they rape someone, the odds are pretty much 100% they've committed other sexual crimes -- "peeping tom" (a cute name for a sociopathic sexual criminal act), fondling, etc. THis doesn;'t happen in a vacauum... it escalates... and they can't eb rehabbed. How many times do we hear that the guy who raped that woman or that kid and killed them had served time for rape? Pretty much always. Two years for viciously destroying a life. Maybe. How many years do those pot smokers get? Twenty five??? For a non-violent crime?

I mean it: throw the key away. I'm 100% against the DP, bit life without parole is an excellent compromise.... including leaving the opening for reversing the outcome if it's found the wrong person was convicted. Can't fix that if someone's dead...

[Ian David]

47. There used to be a death penalty for raping someone inside a car

I think only one person was ever executed under that law.

[IndianaGreen]

23. Pedophiles may choose to always kill and bury their victims

so that there is no living witness to their crime.

This misguided law may have unintended consequences.

Who are they going to execute next in SC, heretics?

If they are going to follow their biblical conscience, how about executing adulterers?

[Norwood]

25. I have absolutely no problem with this. n/t

[KAZ]

26. Kick for PATDEM. # 12

Sounds right.

[rodeodance]

27. This is very unsettling to me. Too much death. I do not know what

I would do if my child-string him up by his balls. But death?--no.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

28. What makes the rape of an 11 year old more heinous

than that of a 12 year old?

[Zhade]

29. Of course they decide that, now that I'm AGAINST the death penalty.

But I remain against the DP, tempting as this stance is - can't take back a wrong sentence.

[eppur_se_muova]

30. Good for you. Strength of convictions has to count for something.

And I agree with the posters upthread who point out this is incentive to leave no living witnesses. Knee-jerk reactions are seldom the most prudent ones.

[joefree1]

31. S'cuse me, could you point me the way back to Democratic Underground

I thought I was there but somehow I seemed to have landed in one of those "let's just hang em all" blogs.

[saigon68]

36. You aren't lost--- there are just a few DINOs here

That's what I like about this place.

The Blood lust gets worked up when they talk about children.

And Karl Rove has used this to his advantage for years.

[truth2power]

61. Thank you, Saigon...Whew! A voice of reason here..

Reading thru this thread is creepy, not because I have any sympathy at all for rapists of any sort, so you all don't even have to go there. But it's just too damn easy to get someone convicted of rape.

Whenever there's a story on the evening news of someone accused of raping a child,my first thought is often, "Why don't they just shoot him on the way to the jail.", an emotional reaction, to be sure. I recognize, though, that we can't have a civilized society based on vigilante justice.

I see this escalating on this thread, casting a wider net and making more groups eligible for the death penalty. Nope. Bad law.

And Saigon, your last 2 sentences are spot-on.

[ecstatic]

110. uhhh yeah... everyone should be pissed off when it comes to kids

getting raped!! How does that make one a DINO? Research has shown that pedophilia is an incurable disease. I wouldn't have a problem with proven pedophiles getting death, but as another poster pointed out, such a law might cause more children to be killed.

[LostinVA]

43. Between this and some of the John Birch-like anti-immigrant posts

lately... I think I hung a right....

[Hell Hath No Fury]

108. Sadly, that happens to often here...

these days.

Some mornings I look through threads and have to remind myself this is DU. :puke:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

35. No, too easy. Far too easy on them

Life in prison with no parole EVER. Throw them in general population and let the other cons sort out the details.

[last1standing]

37. What Utter Bullshit!

Haven't we seen this before, time and time again? The repubs are getting screwed at the polls so they come up with yet another asinine, unconstitutional bill that is almost impossible to vote against without looking like a supporter of child rapists. I can just see the debates.

Repub: I would like to ask my Democratic opponent why he voted in favor of serial pedophiles and against 7 year old Anna who was abducted and molested just last week.

Dem: It would have been against the constitution and therefore illegal.

Repub: There you have it folks, my opponent cares more for the rights of child rapists than he does for 7 year old victims.

And sadly, it works. Even here at DU I'm reading about so called "liberals" wanting to pull the switch to kill other human beings. They keep saying "you can't fix 'em so kill 'em". These kinds of short sighted, hate-filled comments honestly make me sick. I'm told so many times here that the difference between us and the freeps is that "liberals" are logical and fair minded. Then I read this garbage and see so many of "us" are just as blood thirsty as they are.

Remember, if you can justify murdering someone for a mental disease such as pedophilia, then it's just a small jump to murdering someone with a physical disease like AIDS.

[LostinVA]

44. I agree 100% with your posts except for one thing

Pedophilia isn't a "mental disease" -- it's a sociopathic personality disorder. Like Ted Bundy. Jeffrey Dahmer. This is not a disease or a mental health issue. They are healthy. They are sane. They just have no conscience. They cannot be cured ir fixed.

Hoverer, I am completely against the DP, and agree with you that this is a perfect GOP setup.

[superconnected]

60. Thank you for your post.

I used to wonder how nazi germany happened. I couldn't imagine people doing "that". But now, all I have to do is read this thread to see how the people voted it in, supported it, and closed their eyes to attrocities.

I thought this was a "liberal" site. Terrible mistake on my part.

Peds do have mental problems. It's usually a vicious cycle. You'd think peds were mass murders by their some un-psychologically-schooled opinions.

[Kailassa]

38. Always look for the message behind the words.

Republicans strive to equate paedophilia with homosexuality.

Therefore, when a republican advocates the death penalty for paedophiles, be very careful. They are trying to soften people up to the idea of accepting harsh punishments for every non-republican who gets caught doing something they can say the bible forbids. We already know there are republican/"christian" perverts who want to make themselves look like knights in shining armour by making out they are protecting the weak, while they are scheming to get rid of gays, single parents and anyone needing welfare.

Paedophiles are incurable perverts and I would like to see them all dead, but we can not afford to give politicians support when they have evil ulterior motives. (And earlier posters have explained how the death penalty in this situation could make things worse.) The republicans advocating this are as twisted as the worst perverts in this world, never forget the Franklin cover-up.
http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/WashingtonTimes.htm

[Disturbed]

40. O'Liely will jump on this bandwagon.

This is one of his pet causes.

[superconnected]

62. Execllent points.

[Mnemosyne]

65. Never forget! n/t

[allisonthegreat]

41. Well

If you are the perp...it is to bad, but there are quite a few repeat offenders (sex crimes) everywhere, so i say go for it....

[LostinVA]

45. Life in prison without parole

Forget the pro/anti DP angle. It's been proven that victims WILL be killed if a DP charge is available. Having this will just raise the odds that the child will never be found alive... and the odds are bad enough that way as it is.

[allisonthegreat]

83. even life without parole

they could get killed in the main population if some inmates found out about it...or at least that is what i have always heard...

[Ian David]

46. Oh, now NOBODY will want to become a priest. n/t

[Kber]

49. Call me cynical but I'll bet this punishment goes out the window

the first time some "pillar of the community" is convicted of raping his daughter, convicted, released (after serving, what 30 months) and does it again.

Then it will suddenly be "a family tragedy".

They seem to think the majority of these criminals are men hiding somewhere in the woods waiting to snatch your kid as she walks home from school. Yeah, that happens, but I'll bet the majority of cases are parents, uncles or aunts, grandparents, etc.

[raccoon]

51. I'd bet you're right about that.

"but I'll bet the majority of cases are parents, uncles or aunts, grandparents, etc."

[jbnow]

73. I was hoping someone brought that up.

"but I'll bet the majority of cases are parents, uncles or aunts, grandparents, etc"

Almost all child molesters are family or trusted others they are close to
and it WOULD be a tragedy.

I'm against the DP but that isn't the point. Good God, this would tear apart the kids. Kids feel guilty when parents divorce or when a parent dies for some other reason, imagine what they would carry here. They told on daddy so now they weill kill him.
Anyone who has worked with children who've gone through incest or been molested by someone they cared about would no the child would be most victimized by the death penalty. If daddy says "If you tell they will kill me, you can't tell or I will die" that kid is likely not to tell.
But if they do tell and the molester is executed they will live with guilt for the rest of their life.

Kids can feel guilty "sending" daddy or grandpa to jail too of course but as they gain understanding they will know that telling was the right thing and jail deserved.

I just cringe at this. I have worked with these kids and they often are very torn about it all. They might feel bad when the molester gets caught and in trouble because they sort of liked having a special secret thing sometimes. Not the sex itself...but the special trips or gifts or time alone, the loving words...even if they hated the sex. They might still love the person. The person might have told them they did it because they love them so much, a special way. There is enough guilt for the kid to work through.

Execution would be a wicked thing to burden the children with. This is just sick even if you are for the death penalty...No way.

[mitchum]

52. When has South Carolina ever been concerned about The Constitution?

Another reason I'm glad that I left that nest of oligarchs and religious nuts

[BiggJawn]

53. Too lenient.

The arresting Officer should be allowed to take the Perp behind his Unit and make him kneel down then shoot him in the back of the head.

after all, "you just can't FIX a child predator" and the cops NEVER arrest anyone who isn't guilty, right?

:sarcasm: to the 10th Power.

[superconnected]

56. I am completely against this. They have taken the death penalty too far.

Now they want to kill someone who has not killed.

They expect to get it voted in on sheer hatred for sex offenders.

Who would expect nazi germany to arise without the death laws for the most hated first... It HAD to be the sex offenders. The offenders had to be the ones attacking children.

Next of course it will be who molested kids under 18, then any sex offender. Then Sex itself becomes a terrible offence. Sex out of marriage, etc. Prostitutes wont survive. Neither will gays. It creates a blood thirsty "moral" society.

[theophilus]

57. Have any studies been done on how many molesters had been

molested themselves? I was under the impression that molesters had often been the victim as a child. If that is so, this seems very unfair. Life in prison. Period. If there is no way to rehabilitate.

Have any studies been done as to whether any serial molesters have ever been "cured"? Are any able to stop the behavior? If any have been able to stop, the Death seems extreme.

Although I can sympathize with those wanting Death, I feel that Mercy is what we all need to strive for. The world is a horrible place, sometimes, because of some of its people. Let us try everything else before we bring Death and Destruction......even to those we feel deserve it.

The movie "M" looks at this sort of thing.

[dennis00]

70. molesters as child victims

This impression has been shown to be illogical. Most child victims are female. Most adult molesters are male. Therefore, most molesters could not have been victims as children. Or, most female adult molesters are not being arrested.

[Tempest]

58. There's going to be a lot of Repugs running for the hills

www.armchairsubversive.com

[noonwitch]

59. I am opposed to the death penalty in all cases

Some specific arguments against it for pedophiles include:

Cases in which the perp is a friend or relative of the victim. If the child/victim knows that that person could get the death penalty, perhaps the child would be less likely to come forward and seek assistance from law enforcement or social services. Also, in those cases where the victim does have a relationship with the perp, that child may feel tremendous guilt for turning in someone who is then killed for his acts.

The other argument is that if the offender kills a child, he faces the maximum sentence for the murder. A life for a life. A pedophile doesn't take a child's life. Fucks it up, yes, but he doesn't kill the child. The message sent to the survivors is that he has destroyed their lives. This is a bad message for them to internalize-my life sucks, feel sorry for me.

Then again, if I ever walked in on someone sexually abusing any child, family or not, I'll beat him down with whatever I have handy prior to calling the police. God help him if that object is a baseball bat.

[The Stranger]

63. CLASS, YOU HAVE AN ASSIGNMENT:

[libnnc]

67. Add to that assignment:

For extra credit: McMartin Pre-School Case

http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-mcmartin44oct30,0,7258817.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Posteritatis]

68. Touche. (n/t)

[Ilsa]

64. I think there is a special place in Hell for child molesters.

But I don't know that the death penalty is the answer. I fear it could make the perp more likely to kill a child to attempt to reduce the chance of being convicted.

[dennis00]

69. OHIO: Sex abuse penalties tougher under new law

RE: Death penalty for pedophiles. Nearly 90% of sex offenders released from Ohio prisons in 1989 had not committed another sex offense in 10 years. 34% committed another crime, and 11% were sex related.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0330ohsexoffend.html

[Zodiak]

71. repeated

Nearly 90 percent of the 879 sex offenders released from Ohio prisons in 1989 had not committed another sex offense 10 years later , the CIIC review showed. Quoting statistics gathered by the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, the report showed 34 percent of the sex offenders committed another crime within a decade of leaving prison, and 11 percent were sex-related.

Just in case people missed this. 90% do NOT commit another crime.

DUers should be better than bloodthirsty reactionaries. And how about some fact to go along with those bloodthirty opinions....not assertions without evidence?

[aikoaiko]

86. The OHIO study did NOT say what you said it did.

They found that 11% were back in prison due to another sex crime. Even more went back for other offenses. Those data only count the ones who got caught.

Here's a link to the report -- you should read it before you talk about it.

http://www.ciic.state.oh.us/reports/sexoffender.pdf

[Zodiak]

95. If they do no get caught, one canot count them

We have to all agree that some metric can be applied. Sure, 11% of sex offensers were convicted of another sex offense later, as states. That means 89% were NOT convicted of another sex crime...not exactly the 100% recidivism rate needed for such a penalty as death. Those are the numbers, and we cannot count the ones who reoffend and not get caught. It could be less than 1% or 89%, but regardless, any number you settle upon will be entirely speculative.

Speculative numbers beyond existing statistics may be a good place for someone else to formulate an opinion about whether or not to kill someone for committing a crime, but, for me, I will stick to just what is known.

And I read the article, not the report. That I freely admit, as well. Sue me for being busy and not bothering to chase links based on an argument of speculation. If you have something from that report that will blow away the idea that 11% reoffend after being convicted of a sex offense in Ohio (versus the numberless claims of "high" recidivism being the reson to kill people), be my guest.

[aikoaiko]

98. Its OK , I just wanted you to know that you overstated your stats

I have no opinion on the death penalty issue, but I do take issue with people giving out the wrong information.

[dennis00]

96. The news story from DDN

says exactly what I said it said. I quoted it word for word.

[aikoaiko]

97. Then you parroted wrong information --check the source material

Here is the source material AGAIN - http://www.ciic.state.oh.us/reports/sexoffender.pdf

read it and you will see that 11% were CONVICTED of another sex crime. It does not claim that only 11% COMMITTED another sex crime. No one in the field would ever think that they caught all the recitivists.

[dennis00]

101. read page 16 again

It says, "The total sex-related recidivism rate, including technical violation of supervision conditions, was 11.0%"

NOWHERE does it say "convicted of another sex crime" as you imply. Technical violation of supervision conditions can include any contact with the law, such as drunk driving, not reporting to parole officer as required,or a dirty urine.

[aikoaiko]

105. Reading is Fundamental.

Let's take a look at page 16. If we do we see that...

The study defined the recidivism of sex offenders as the rate at which offenders return to
prison for any new offense including technical parole violations."

and then

Recommitment for a New Crime 23%

• Sex Offense 8.0%
  
• Non-Sex Offense 14.3%

Recommitment for a Technical Violation 11.7%

• Sex Offense 1.3%
  
• Sex Lapse 1.7%
  
• Non-sex Related 8.7%

and then...

The total sex-related recidivism rate, including technical violation of supervision
conditions, was 11.0 percent.

Ok, it's clear that they include technical violatin as a new offense in their definition. Although paroelees can be put in jail as a matter of due process before conviction, a conviction is required to incarcerate the parolee. Parolee still have due process.

The 11% recidivism rate does not include "such as drunk driving, not reporting to parole officer as required,or a dirty urine" as you claim. If it did, the recitivism rate would be much higher (about 34%). See the table above.

Reading is fundamental.

As I said in another post, you can only claim that 11% of sex offenders were caught and then convicted through due process in order to be re-incarcerated. Saying that only 11% actually committ another crime is going way beyond the data of this report. Do you really think that they catch every sex offended who recommits? But you are entitled to believe what you want --- but I wouldn't go citing this report anymore because it doesn't back up what you say.

[dennis00]

109. Thank you

Thank you for the discussion and for the link to the research paper. FYI Here in Ohio, a technical violation of your parole will get you sent back under your original number for up to half your original sentence. It does not take a judge and jury, only a decision by a couple of people from the Adult Parole Authority. Once you have served that time you are "Off Paper" and cannot be sent back except for a new crime, for which you get a new number.

I have just (last 12 hours) been told I have a possible skin cancer. That is consuming my thoughts. So, thank you again for the discussion and link. Dennis00

[aikoaiko]

92. Not exactly -- 11% were CONVICTED of another sex crime.

That is not the same thing as saying only 11% COMMITTED another sexual offense.

See post #86 above.

Here's the report that you need to actually read http://www.ciic.state.oh.us/reports/sexoffender.pdf

[cleofus1]

72. i approve of the death penalty in theory

but only in 1rst degree murder...and even then...not in cases based on circumstatial evidence...

give the child molesters life in prison...

[Coventina]

74. There are so many problems with this law, some of which have been pointed

out already.

What about divorce cases? Vindictive spouses? Or even worse, vindictive inlaws?

How much do you want to bet that the poor, GLBT, and people of color will end up getting the needle much more often than the so-called "pillars of the community" in these types of cases?

Can you imagine the horror of the child, going through an experience where they have to testify against someone, and it may mean that they die? And add to that the possible pressure mommy is putting on them to say bad things about daddy? Is that really in the best interests of the child?

Pedophilia is a serious problem. But the DP is NOT the answer. The DP is already unfair and cruel. Do not let people use your emotions to make the problem worse.

This would expand the DP system to further abuse and misuse. This would cause more injustice, not better justice. Don't be seduced by the satifaction of vengence.

Think about it, who really wins by gaining power to legally kill more people?

[cleofus1]

75. good point coventina...

actually several good points...our justice system is flawed and the execution of just one wrongly convicted person would negate any possible good this law might accomplish...

[Wise Doubter]

76. Twice ?!

How about once ?!

Let`s thin this crowd out, quick !

[barbaraann]

77. And what will they do with men who buy a underaged prostitute?

Like Jimmy Swaggert, for example.

[saigon68]

79. the Repukes will Give the Mother Fucker a Medal

In an interview she gave in Penthouse magazine, Murphree claimed that Swaggert made inquiries about her nine year old daugter. Swaggert was also a cheap customer as he tried to haggle Murphree down from $20 to $10 during one particular session. Swaggart said that since on that particular day he only wanted her to pose for him, it shouldn’t cost more than $10. Murphree stuck to her minimum of $20 and I’m sure there was no tip.
But Jimmy-boy was not finished with his sinful ways.

In 1989, Catherine Campen did an interview for Penthouse magazine claiming she had carried on a six month affair with Swaggart. She further claimed that Swaggert tricked her into sadomachistic acts including whipping Swaggert with a riding crop. Hi-yo Silver! Away!


Link http://journals.aol.com/eazyguy62/AmericanCrossroads/entries/611

[barbaraann]

80. And how about John Fund?

He's due a medal, too, I suppose.

Or that Republican Mayor in Connecticut.

The hypocrisy is too much.

[lynne]

78. Absolutely! No problem with this for repeat offenders.

As someone said, they never stop.

[JohnnyLib]

84. focus, focus

South Carolina, which took the Confederate flag off the Capitol about 5 or 6 years ago?

This is bad, bad lawmaking. Just skim through all the negatives listed in posts above.

In our area, this would take out some convicted-offender grandparents who have already split and damaged their families in godawful ways. The "unintended consequences" of this type of law are chilling.

[MadHound]

87. This is just as wrong as seeking the DP for any other crime

Lock 'em up for life, fine. But we have absolutely got to get rid of state sponsored murder.

[MrSlayer]

99. Good for them.

The only problem I have with it is that the scum have to be convicted twice. One time is sufficient. Child rape is not something that can be cured or rehabilitated, it's not something you "experiment" with and it's not a "phase". These are very sick, deranged creatures who torture children. There is simply nothing worse you can do, it's the lowest of the low. These "people" need to to be found and eliminated as soon as possible.

Ask me about gay marriage, women's rights, unions, single payer health-care, the environment, the wars or any of the majority of topics on this site and I'm right there with the majority of liberal thinkers but nothing will ever convince me that killing people who torture, rape and murder innocent children is wrong. There are some things you can do that are so bad they should cost you your right to exist. Not all killings are murder.

[SKKY]

104. No arguments here. Fry 'em.

But only if they're 100% guilty.

[apnu]

106. What about all those Catholic priests? Will they be first?

The hypocrisy here is stinks to high heaven, and I don't mean the priests, which is obvious and another topic. I don't understand how any person who calls themselves a follower of Christ but can support the death of any human being -- no matter how vile the crime may be.

I wonder if this means SC (if passed) will execute priests for their repeated offenses. What a thorny issue that would be, but it would, IMO, be the secret desire of all the protestants in America.

[newspeak]

107. well, I have a two page list of

so-called Republican pedophiles--so I guess they're for killing their own base. I am against the death penalty, however, I think there's nothing wrong for locking up and throwing away the key; however, it seems that the GOP extreme fringe ideals appeal to some pedophiles as it appealed to Ted Bundy. Way to go SC!!!!!!

[mvd]

111. 100% against the death penalty

Nothing's going to convince me that we should lower ourselves to the criminal. This is one thing that we can just disagree on. Also, there's no such thing as all executed being guilty for sure.

That said, it's the system and not the criminal that I feel happiest about when a prison sentence is given out instead.

[MountainLaurel]

112. What do you think will happen

The first time some "pillar of the community" who belongs to the Lions Club and his church choir gets his teenage stepdaughter pregnant?

We delude ourselves by imagining child rapists as men who lurk in dark corners luring our innocent children with candy and promises of puppies, but in reality 95 percent of child rapists are the nice basketball coach or church youth group leader, Grandpa Hank, a sister's boyfriend, cousin Lois, or Dad. Most of these rapes are never reported, the perpetrators never adjudicated.

Will the cries for blood and vengence be as strong in South Carolina when the child rapist in question turns out to be an elderly man known for his community philanthropy, who raped three generations of prepubescent girls in his family? Or when a wealthy white college student rapes his family's African-American maid *cough*Strom*cough*? For some reason, I don't think so.