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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:12 AM
Original message
WP: Democrats Are Split As Impeachment Whispers Get Louder
Democrats Are Split As Impeachment Whispers Get Louder

By Michael Powell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 25, 2006; Page A01

HOLYOKE, Mass. -- To drive through the mill towns and curling country roads here is to journey into New England's impeachment belt. Three of this state's 10 House members have called for the investigation and possible impeachment of President Bush.

Thirty miles north, residents in four Vermont villages voted earlier this month at annual town meetings to buy more rock salt, approve school budgets and impeach the president for lying about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction and for sanctioning torture.

Window cleaner Ira Clemons put down his squeegee in the lobby of a city mall and stroked his goatee as he considered the question: Would you support your congressman's call to impeach Bush? His smile grew until it looked like a three-quarters moon.

"Why not? The man's been lying from Jump Street on the war in Iraq," Clemons said. "Bush says there were weapons of mass destruction, but there wasn't. Says we had enough soldiers, but we didn't. Says it's not a civil war -- but it is." He added: "I was really upset about 9/11 -- so don't lie to me."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032402248.html
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. more
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 12:15 AM by Pirate Smile
""If the president says 'We made mistakes,' fine, let's move on," said Rep. Michael E. Capuano (D-Mass.). "But if he lied to get America into a war, I can't imagine anything more impeachable."
Democrats remain far from unified. Prominent party leaders -- and a large majority of those in Congress -- distance themselves from the effort. They say the very word is a distraction, that talk of impeachment and censure reflect the polarization of politics. Activists spend too many hours dialing Democratic politicians and angrily demanding impeachment votes, they say.

-snip-
"Impeachment is an outlet for anger and frustration, which I share, but politics ain't therapy," said Rep. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts liberal who declined to sign the Conyers resolution. "Bush would much rather debate impeachment than the disastrous war in Iraq."'

The GOP establishment has welcomed the threat. It has been a rough patch for the party -- Bush's approval ratings in polls are lower than for any president in recent history. With midterm elections in the offing, Republican leaders view impeachment as kerosene poured on the bonfires of their party base.

"The Democrats' plan for 2006?" Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman wrote in a fundraising e-mail Thursday. "Take the House and Senate and impeach the president. With our nation at war, is this the kind of Congress you want?"

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I never even considered this! Barney Frank said,
"Bush would much rather debate impeachment than the disastrous war in Iraq."

I'm to the point where I don't care. Three plus years are too much to tolerate dim son any longer.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. At Least They Would be Debating SOMETHING!
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. You CAN and MUST do both
If you have courageous democrats -- you could both talk about impeachment AND make sure that the subject of this disasterous war in Iraq was never moved from front and center. It could be the chief argument for impeachment and be discussed day in and day out so that there was no escape from it.

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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Exactly!! That is my contention also! nt
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. impeachment would be about lying to take US to war so Barney's wrong
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. But That's The Sort of Republican Congress We Got!--
"The Democrats' plan for 2006?" Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman wrote in a fundraising e-mail Thursday. "Take the House and Senate and impeach the president. With our nation at war, is this the kind of Congress you want?"

But that's the sort of Republican Congress we got back in 1996. How soon the Repuds forget!

:wtf: :dunce: :tinfoilhat: :rofl:
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Put them on the defense!!!
"Take the House and Senate and impeach the president. With our nation at war, is this the kind of Congress you want?"

Oh yeah, assholes? So we should let the republicans keep the house and senate and pretend we're winning an unwinnable war and have a competent effective president for the next two years? Look around, people! We're on the THRESHHOLD OF HELL!!! VOTE THE BUMS OUT!
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. "Activists spend too many hours dialing Democratic
politicians and angrily demanding impeachment votes, they say."

Well, DUH!

What are representatives elected for?

To represent their constintuents!

NOT to lick * and repuke ass!

:grr:
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. YES!! THAT'S **EXACTLY** THE KIND OF CONGRESS I WANT!!!!!
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 02:09 AM by AndyTiedye
"The Democrats' plan for 2006?" Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman wrote in a fundraising e-mail Thursday. "Take the House and Senate and impeach the president. With our nation at war, is this the kind of Congress you want?"


That kind of Congress would ROCK!! :yourock:
President Nancy Pelosi would Rock too!

IMPEACH

These people are working to elect such a Congress.
http://www.impeachpac.org/
I sent them some money.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Yes, Ken, That's EXACTLY What I Want!
And I know I'm not alone in that.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
51. Yes, Ken, we want it. Why don't you take your chickenhawk ass to Iraq
where you can live out your pro-war rhetoric in real time?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. For all that remains good in this world...UNITE on this one!
PLEASE.:banghead:

We've got your back. Do it for the people of this country. Do it because it is the right thing to do. Do it for America.

Peace.
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's in the air now...
A few months ago, the very word impeachment was sneered at, and those who dared voice it were denounced as radicals.

There are, of course, some who still say that anyone who even brings up the possibility are dangerous radicals, even traitors. But it is slowly becoming more mainstream.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
52. when the man on the street in Ma. & Vt. wants impeachment, we're not far
off
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. People need to consider that their are issues that are best done
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 01:14 AM by John Q. Citizen
by the grassroots and there are issues that are best done by elected lawmakers.

This is what stands out for me- "Activists spend too many hours dialing Democratic politicians and angrily demanding impeachment votes, they say."

I agree with this statement. Here is my idea:



IMPEACHMENT! SETTING THE TERMS OF DEBATE


Our country has a few major problems. One party dominates all three branches of government and controls the mass media, particularly broadcast TV networks, cable TV networks, radio news, and the print media giants. The bush administration has moved far toward the totalitarian and militaristic as they pushed their corporatist agenda and have turned large corporate media into a propaganda arm of the Republicans. This makes problems hard to address because it makes problems hard to discuss in a public forum. There is no accountability in government or from the media.


Problems could be addressed if the base got organized enough to use the means at our disposal. We need to put out our own ubiquitous message --because that's the problem. Big Media is ubiquitous and we need to be also. We showed we could do it, to a great extent, in the Alito fight, but the nature of the battle had strict expiration of action dates. That was an organic grassroots driven fight that sprung up, moved and took hold. We need to organize and do long term planning to more effectively use the means at our disposal.

We need an organized sustained national campaign to create a national debate with the Repubs. We must make sure we set the terms of the debate. We don't need to win an issue; we need to exert an insistent and omnipresent voice that requires a national political and media response. And we need to do that for about six months, through the mid-term elections and longer. Any effective grassroots campaign on the left at this point needs to help get back majorities in the Congress. So we need to define essentially, the issue(s) of the election. I believe that issue is most broadly defined as accountability. Congress has failed to hold the executive accountable. So we have to hold congress accountable.

Imagine if we all backed one unified message and we all used the same theme flyer/poster, the same call-in talk radio "point," the same freeway blog, the same bumper sticker, the same on-the-streets campaign, the same "issue"? And we did it in a well thought out, sustained, and organized way?

There is one 500lb gorilla in the living room and that is Impeachment. If you think bush stole the election, or if you think bush LIHOPed MIHOPed or just plain blew 9/11 and lied about it, or if you think bush let a lot of black people drown while he vacationed, or if you believe bush lied us into a war, or if you believe bush and his cronies are a bunch of thieving scalawags, or if you believe the prescription drug bill was a pay to play deal, (also known as bribery and extortion to further corporatism) if you believe bush needs to be impeached for many more reasons, crimes and lies, you are probably in favor of Impeachment, you are probably on board.

Impeachment is the perfect issue because we can tie almost any other issue to Impeachment. Impeachment comes down to accountability which is what we as citizens have to demand. We have to hold our elected Representatives accountable. Impeachment is the only appropriate constitutional remedy to gross criminal activity by a president. We need to stand up for the rule of law, for the Constitution, for accountability, for Impeachment.

We certainly won't get bush impeached and convicted because it takes a, what, 2/3 vote of the Senate to convict and uphold the Impeachment from the house? So it’s a great issue because it has a great shelf life and it encompasses current and future issues that arise. Of course, in a just US, the Repubs would impeach, but politically they can’t do it. So it’s our moral fulcrum and lever on The Repo Congress. It just highlights the morals vacuum inherent in the Repubs.

The fact is, that even the opportunity to impeach in the house is at least a year away. In order to impeach in the house, we will need to win enough mid-term seats to take back the House, which is why now is the time to consider a fight that will really start about 3 months from now.

.
An Impeachment campaign should also help train, educate and encourage citizen activism and the shouldering of civic responsibility by citizen. This will help going into the mid terms. The campaign should also continue to plan ahead toward organizing action on the ground via the net.


TACTICS
I am very interested in the challenge of turning interaction on the Internet into action on the ground.

So what tools do the left have at its disposal to control the debate (Impeach!) and to help the Dems get back the legislature?

Well, we have the Internet, the call-in shows, (anybody check out the right wing activists on all the call-in shows about Coretta Scott King’s funeral? They were on the lefty shows in force) LTTE, telephone, bumper stickers, freeway blogging, postering/flyering, demonstrations, lobbying, celebrity leftists on TV and in print,

Another resource is lots of various civic organizations, as well as associations, such as environmental, civil rights, educational, political groups, interest groups, etc.


PLAN

Phase 1 A week or 10 days before the planned March on DC, at the end of April, we launch a media buzz: A sustained and organized effort to put Impeachment out there through LTTE, Radio, Hard Copy Blogging and the Internet.

The message is IMPEACH!
We do that for a couple of weeks.

Phase 2 Move to electronic lobbying campaign primarily directed at Republicans in Congress and the larger media. We do an Alito here, but we primarily target our own Republicans and our targeted Republicans based on the mid term elections map. We raise a stink about accountability and IMPEACHMENT! We use our peoples media to shout CALL/WRITE your Representative and demand Impeachment, demand accountability from your Rep. (This is the point the Alito campaign got to when the cloture vote rendered it moot.)

Phase 3 This starts sometime soon after spring graduation. This is the mobilization phase:


NATIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY DAY(s) or NAD(s) -- 3 days of Democracy

It would take about a minimum of 25,000 people participating nationwide to pull off my idea, but the more the better. While that’s a formidable number, its small compared to the # that have shown up at marches, for instance. And the relatively local nature of going to local US Senator’s or US Congressman’s field office makes for easier participation by a lot more people.

We line up at least one hundred people in front of five Republican US Senate or Congressional offices in each state, and people go in and lobby, preferably alone or in pairs. Fifteen minutes per lobby/staffer means 4 people an hour or 32 per day per staffer.

Every citizen lobbyist would take 2 messages to their Representative. One would be of their choosing or their coalition groups choosing, and the other would be Impeachment. We ask if the Rep will support Impeachment. If not why not? We target Repubs (on a mid term targeted basis) for our lobby day targets, and make sure local press covers the events (our bigger target) and then National Media --Our biggest target.

It would require 300 organizers (1 for 5 field offices per state + one state-wide organizer for a total of 6 per state), but it would be a great run up to the mid terms in terms of organizing, networking, energizing people, and giving people a good reason to vote in a Dem congress -- i.e. Impeachment, i.e. everything that’s wrong.

It could be a lot of fun. And it could very conceivably be a lot bigger than 25,000 people nationwide if we organized, because people could participate fairly locally.

Imagine! Home Town America with a long line of people lined up to talk to their Representative’s staffers about Impeachment and other issues would certainly get local coverage. And if it happened across America it would get National coverage.

The Repubs would have to be talking about, "Why not to impeach or why impeachment would be bad for the country."

Bloggers could blog from line, we get some celebrity lobbyists in line for media, we tie up Repo staffers for three days across America, and we could get lib talk show broadcasts from the line. We could make it an event, a street party, celebration of democracy and citizen lobbyists.

Phase 4
I haven’t looked that far ahead yet, but maybe Fall Impeachment Fairs? Direct lobbying of the media? An October Impeachment march on Congress?

Phase 5
Equate the Congressional and Senatorial votes with votes for accountability, with votes for Impeachment. Time for a change, time for voters to Impeach The Unaccountable Congress.


Arguments for this strategy and action plan

People are hungry to do something about the mess we find ourselves in. At the same time people are overwhelmed by the enormity of issues and how to address them. By focusing on one campaign that encompasses so many other interests, we can give people something meaningful and understandable to do. By having two issue Accountability Days we open the participation to everyone.

It doesn't matter if someone is for Impeachment or against Impeachment -- if you can get them talking about Impeachment you have already won. You have controlled the terms of the debate. Even arguments about the feasibility or practical desirability of Impeachment are irrelevant because Impeachment is politically impossible until sometime next year, and by then if it’s possible we will have won even if it’s decided it’s not practical or desirable.

This is something the Dems can’t really do themselves but it is something we can do.

The cost of not doing an organized campaign, including mass mobilization on a visible local level is unacceptable. We can’t leave it up to Clark, Ralph, Dean. Hillary, JFK, Obama, Cindy -- they have told us that already.

The left needs to be making demands on Republican Lawmakers. I know how I was during the Alito campaign, I called a lot more Dems than I did Republicans. I've been to my Dem Senators field office, but I've never been inside my Republican Congressman or Senator’s field office. We need to take the fight to them, we need to chat with their staff. Folks at home could be calling and writing the Reps asking them to meet with the lobbyists at a field office.

This issue focuses people on the House and the Senate while still keeping the heat on the prez.. It creates an opportunity to exploit fissures in the Repub party by squeezing Repubs between public pressure and the Prez.

While the media ignored the last big DC march, an action like a National Accountability Day(s) wouldn’t be anywhere near as susceptible to media blackout because it would be happening in everybody’s state and at offices and communities across the state. They are perfect for local TV, radio and print stories. The numbers are also verifiable in terms of nationwide turnout.

It would offer a huge umbrella to allow a number of existing interest groups to work together and hang out in line together, and it allows Independents to have access, too. Solidarity baby!

Everyone pretty well agrees that if the grassroots is going to have an impact we are going to have to take to the streets. This would be a good way to stick it to the petite fascists. We’d get ACLU members, Peace activists, Seniors, Families, Students, MMJ activists, Greens, Dems, Scientists, Unionists, Lefty Independents, Reasonable people, disgruntled old guard GOP, returned soldiers, everybody -- minus the bush base -- and we could take it right to the Repo staffers. Good media.

IDEAS FOR IMPLEMENTATION

Discussion and refinement.

We need a working group to brainstorm and undertake specific tasks.

A number of groups are already working on Impeachment as an issue. These people should be ready and natural allies. And they get how Impeachment ties to accountability as an issue.

Accountability Coalition ? Part of the Accountability Movement. Issue Impeachment.


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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. This is a great Idea John...deserves a thread of it's own
Keep kickin this John..great ideas there.

:thumbsup:
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's on page 2 of the activist HQ forum. Please go and post/kick to
get it back to the top of the forum page.


(pretty please)
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Thought-provoking.
First, you really should post this on its own thread so we can get more people discussing it.

Second, as much as I would like to see us begin the impeachment process, I'm not convinced impeachment on its own is a winner for us. I just wrote a post about Democratic vision which elucidates my feelings a little more, but the short version is that impeachment alone doesn't offer anything to fill the vacuum it creates. People are still very aware that we are at war, and without some sort of competing Democratic vision of the world to take the place of Bush's failed Iraq vision, they will stick with the devil they know. That's my gut feeling, anyway. Perhaps the Democrats should have a summit of their own where liberal think tanks submit potential policy solutions for debate. The goal would be to come up with a clear, bold plan that everyone can run on.

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I agree that impeachment isn't a big winner to run on, for one thing
it's an impossible dream (or a failed campaign promise) because it requires 2/3 to sustain in the Senate.

But it's a great issue for the grassroots to organize on.

We need to take it to the Repubs and let them tell us why it isn't a big winner.

As far as a one size fits all for all Senate and House races, that's difficult because of the local nature of politics.

However, accountability, as a theme, is a great issue for all Dems to run on.

My idea is on page 2 (at the top) of the DU activists headquaters forum. Please go and post/kick and put it back at the top of page 1. Here a link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=106&page=2

I think I'll repost it to Gen politics in the morning.

In the mean time I'm going to read Democratic vision.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Ok, I read Democratic vision and I agree with your analysis.
Schwitzer does get it. To be honest, his vision is long on vision and short on implementation, but that's not a problem in political terms, at least at this point.

It works very well in MT because of all the coal resources (and wind)But what about Kansas?

As I'm sure you are aware, the Dem leadership has been pushing the accountability "vision." But that is of itself a reactive vision to the corruption and illegalities of the Repos.

Thanks for the great analysis. I'm going to ponder it a bit.


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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. Right on, John: "Stand up for the rule of law."
For those who are skimming the thread, I am going to re-quote one short passage from your long post:

snip>

Impeachment is the perfect issue because we can tie almost any other issue to Impeachment. Impeachment comes down to accountability which is what we as citizens have to demand. We have to hold our elected Representatives accountable. Impeachment is the only appropriate constitutional remedy to gross criminal activity by a president. We need to stand up for the rule of law, for the Constitution, for accountability, for Impeachment.

snip>


You said it.

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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. I'm in. But time to begin is with censure debate on Fri. We have to get
our reps to vote for censure, then move on to impeach.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. I see it as six of one half dozen of the other. The point is to
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 03:53 PM by John Q. Citizen
take to the streets locally and force a public (not congressional) debate. The point is to force local media and national media to cover it big time.

We don't want to win this issue (for one thing we can't, we don't have the votes, it takes 2/3 vote or 67 votes in the Senate to sustain impeachment.)

We want an issue that isn't going to go away until george does.

We want to take back one or both houses in the 06 mid terms.

Impeachment is a way to do this, not actually impeach, but control the terms of the debate and use it as a lever against the Repos.

Accountability is the real issue here. The grassroots placing demands on the Republican's majority in congress power is the the real issue here. American values (like accountability and transparency) are the real issues here.

Let me put it like this. The anti-choice grassroots forces have controlled the debate on abortion since the mid 1970's, for almost 40 years now, even though poll after poll shows Americans support a woman's right to choose. They have elected many Repo Reps and Senators across the country by controlling the debate. Abortion is still safe and legal, and we have a Repo controlled Congress, Executive branch and judiciary.

I hadn't heard that Congress will be debating censure. They will debate it and it will lose. Then what?

This isn't about Congress debating, this is about forcing a national public debate among the people of this country and forcing the Republican congress to react to us. Reacting to Frist's Senate schedule isn't a very effective strategy, IMHO. We need to be proactive. We don't need a single Democratic elected official on board to do this. We ourselves need to do this. We need to demand accountability.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for censure and impeachment. But more importantly, I'm for taking our country back from the scallowags!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. G-d bless those impeachment Yankees!
After all, they are only defending the Constitution and the Republic!
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Democrats remain split" = "Corporate media narrative"
Split? More Bushit from the Domenech Post. (For the handful of you who aren't fully up to speed on the Domenech reference, see this. I'm taking to calling that sorry excuse for a newspaper the Domenech Post in honor of their excellence and journalistic integrity... not!.)
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Are dems worried this will backfire?
That'll it fire up bush's base and get them foaming at the mouth calling dems terrorists, anti-christian, anti-american or whatever? Could it be a diversionary tactic bush would like so he could play the victim to his base?

I can understand the need to tread carefully with this even as much as I love the idea of impeachment. Both bush and cheney have got to go. I just soon have a weak willed lame duck hastert at this point.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. Dems. are worried that showing they have any kind of pulse will backfire.
They're taking the concept of "keeping their power dry" to ludicrious extremes, and its getting ridiculous.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. They changed the headline apparently.
Near Paul Revere Country, Anti-Bush Cries Get Louder

By Michael Powell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 25, 2006; A01

HOLYOKE, Mass. -- To drive through the mill towns

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032402248.html


Interesting.



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President Kerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. proudly representing the Impeachment Belt!
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 01:05 AM by President Kerry
:patriot:

Soon to become an Impeachment Wave. Be afraid, George and his junta.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. I raise a glass to you.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
54. I'm in the Lieberbush blue belt. Many for impeachmt, many still sleeping
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
20. Want Impeachment? Work on taking back Congress.
The present Congress will Never impeach Bush.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
22. ~"This administration needs to be slapped down and held accountable"


Critics point to Bush's approval of harsh interrogations of prisoners captured Iraq and Afghanistan, tactics that human rights groups such as Amnesty International say amount to torture. Bush also authorized warrantless electronic surveillance of telephone calls and e-mails, subjecting possibly thousands of Americans each year to eavesdropping since 2001.

"Bush is saying 'I'm the president' and, on a range of issues -- from war to torture to illegal surveillance -- 'I can do as I like,' " said Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "This administration needs to be slapped down and held accountable for actions that could change the shape of our democracy."

Tribe wrote Conyers, dismissing Bush's defense of warrantless surveillance as "poppycock." It constituted, Tribe concluded, "as grave an abuse of executive authority as I can recall ever having studied."

But posed against this bill of aggrievement are legal and practical realities. Not all scholars, even of a liberal bent, agree that Bush has committed "high crimes and misdemeanors." Bush's legal advice may be wrong, they say, but still reside within the bounds of reason.......
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
23. Hey--it has a new headline: Near Paul Revere Country, Anti-Bush Cries Get

Near Paul Revere Country, Anti-Bush Cries Get Louder

By Michael Powell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 25, 2006; Page A01
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PVK Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
25. Boy, this guy is a real Kool-aid kid.
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 03:52 AM by PVK
"The Clinton impeachment was plainly unconstitutional, and a Bush impeachment would be nearly as bad," said Cass R. Sunstein, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago. "There is a very good argument that the president had it wrong on WMD in Iraq but that he was acting in complete good faith."

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
58. "complete good faith" and there you have it, the incompetent defense.
Now do people see why they find it useful?
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
26. what the #%(& is Barney Franks' problem?
he can kiss my butt. The country's going to hell and all he can do is spout cutesy bullshit??
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. I live in the impeachment belt and there's only one thing holding
me back from totally supporting impeachment: Cheney. What could possibly be worse than President Bush? President Cheney.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. With 18% approval, Cheney would be open game for
prosecution for Plame, his illegal energy task force, war profitering, and much more.

He would not last more than a couple days. No one likes him.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. We can IMPEACH ANYONE :)
Every damn public official can be impeached and NOW is the time..

Reasons? We don't need no stinking reasons :)

There's plenty. Lying to Congress for one, using false intel to drive us into a faked war, Cheney gets impeached for War profitteering, the list goes on and on..
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Don't worry. Fitz will take care of Cheney
Unless the Grim Reaper beats him to it!
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. Not to worry. It takes a 2/3 vote of the Senate to sustain impeachment.
That's 67 Senators. Even assuming 45 current votes (44 Dems and 1 independent) we would still need 22 Repos to vote to sustain.

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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
31. The only ones who seem to cower from impeachment
are our "brave" senators and representatives.

If they think that sitting on their asses waiting
for Bush to implode is going to accomplish anything
or will endear them with "we the people" .. then they got
another thing coming at election time. Only the courageous ones
deserve our respect and support. These other cowards
who are too self-absorbed playing politics than to confront
this evil administration can go home.. and stay there.
They are useless... to everyone but themselves.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
34. That's it, I'm moving to Massachusetts
What bliss it must be to be able to feel such pride in your community instead of the shame which afflicts most of us these days.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
35. Okay, anyone realize what's going on?
This is a news dump to get Bush's base fired up. If they stay home, we win. Off year elections are tough, very few people vote. To keep putting impeachment out there is like waving a red flag at the kool-aid kids. They will start putting feet on the ground and work to keep their reps red. Rove knows his robots.

I think this is why Frank is brushing it aside, as well as other dem reps. If the dems win the majority back, it will be a different story. But, until then they don't want to stir up a hornets nest of Bush lovers, who will do ANYTHING to keep their guy in power.

What we have to do is get dems to vote in large numbers, and that's the bottom line.

zalinda
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Is this written by THE Michael Powell?
The one who screwed up the FCC?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. If so, it'll never work. Read EarlG's astute take on this, here:
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. I agree with why, but disagree that this means we don't want the debate.
There's one crucial point you're forgetting. BUSH HAS LOST SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF HIS BASE. You're acting as though there's this majority of americans who may stay home unless riled up, but once riled up would vote for republicans. This just doesn't reflect current public opinion.

You and I will just disagree. Where you think democrats need to be quite and scared of "bush's base" I say there is a WAITING WILLING PUBLIC who is SCREAMING via every poll that they are sick of bush and sick of the neo-con republican party and looking for someone - ANYONE - to stand up and LEAD!

Now is the time to say to Karl Rove: BRING IT ON. We are not going to win by sitting around and keeping quiet. That is not the mood the country is in. We are going to win by saying, I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!" That is what Americans will vote for. Period.
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saddemocrat Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. exactly
My dad has always been a hard-core Bush supporter, but his support of Iraq is pretty low now as is his support in general of the administration. He told me he can't think of one good candidate to vote for anymore and thinks 2008 will be a wash. In short..he's down in the dumps about his republican party.

He was visiting when the Censure talk really got going and that alone started whipping him into a frenzy. Mr. "We should have never gone into Iraq" (ummm, perhaps that thought could have occurred to him when he was helping to bankroll swift boat vets for truth) started getting outraged that in a time of 'war' we would dare criticize our president.

I can only imagine that he is now foaming at the mouth over impeachment talks. Come on, guys...there is a reason that the republicans brought up the idea!
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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
36. Repubs are trying to frame this. It's not about censure or impeachment
It's about holding the President responsible for his illegal actions. Censure or impeachment are the punishments not the issue. The Repubs do this type of crap all the time. We can't let them get away with this again.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
38. I want to hear loud chanting!
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. Impeachment charges on Nixon came after facts of lawbreaking
were fully known. The domestic spying issues are still being covered up re most ordinary citizens. The TSP prior restraints and illegal actions under color of authority will have to be investigated during any impeachment and charges brought as the matter moves along.

The main charges re abuse of the War Powers Act of '73 (abuse of discretion) since untruthful circumstances and situations are used as pretext for war will always stand.

More charges are to come, this is my main point, and they are worst than just 'taking Saddam out' on a whim.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. that is true, & antiwar fervor was even greater than today due to DRAFT
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #39
59. You bring up a point relevant to the framing of this issue.
Right now this should be be portrayed as accountability rather than just impeachment.

Republicans won in '94 on "accountability" not "impeachment" and I think we should take the lesson. If it turns out laws were broken we have to trust the rule of law and impeach as the Constitution allows.

I think we should tell the Republicans this is just about getting at the facts. If they have done nothing wrong and broken no laws they have no reason to worry. By fretting over impeachment it shows they have no faith in the Constitutional process.

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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. Did they change the headline?
The headline at the link isn't the same as what was posted, did they change it?
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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. Did they change the headline?
The headline at the link isn't the same as what was posted, did they change it?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
48. WE'RE NOT WHISPERING!! TAKE THE COTTON OUT OF YOUR EARS, WP!
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saddemocrat Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
49. wait until the 2006 elections are over....
I'd like nothing more than to see Bush impeached...AFTER the 2006 elections though. I think the whispering should stop until the dems are safely back in the majority.

Why? This will just embolden the repulican spin machine base who seems to be much more adept at turning things in their favor than we are. We will get the whole "time of war/betraying america" crap lines...the republicans will become outraged, they'll rally their base and turn up in record numbers to defeat the 'liberal/commy' dems....it just sux all around.

I'm all for impeachment...let's just time it right.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
60. The reason the constitution and Bill of Rights is in serious
jeopardy.
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