Bush Using Straw-Man Arguments in Speeches

[Judi Lynn]

AP Breaking News
Bush Using Straw-Man Arguments in Speeches
- By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
Saturday, March 18, 2006

(03-18) 09:52 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --

"Some look at the challenges in Iraq and conclude that the war is lost and not worth another dime or another day," President Bush said recently.

Another time he said, "Some say that if you're Muslim you can't be free."

"There are some really decent people," the president said earlier this year, "who believe that the federal government ought to be the decider of health care ... for all people."

Of course, hardly anyone in mainstream political debate has made such assertions.
(snip/...)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/18/national/w095252S08.DTL#sections

[yurbud]

1. sometimes Democrats seem to fall for these frames though pundits don't

at least not the good ones.

[Mithras61]

2. He uses straw-man arguments so that he...

doesn't have to confron reality. Reality creates difficult situations that simplistic solutions can't fix. Only straw-man arguments meet his need for simple problems with simple solutions for simple-minded sheeple to consume.

[reprobate]

17. He uses straw man arguments because most americans can't apply simple

logic

[0007]

31. ....ain't that the truth?

[yurbud]

35. actually, they work backward from what they want to do to the simple args

That is why they have no substantive policy debates in the White House.

They knew they wanted to invade Iraq for the oil companies, privatize social security for Wall Street, and cut taxes for all the wealthy. The only issues on the table were how to sell it and when, and that mainly fell to PR strategists like Karl Rove.

That's why you get meetings like the pre-Katrina ones where Bush sits there like a fucking vegetable and doesn't ask a single question--it's not on their pre-determined to do list, so it doesn't matter.

[wordpix2]

3. straw-man arguments fill empty-suit puppets

[thinkingwoman]

4. Bush IS a straw man

put out in front to draw our attention away from who's zooming who with whose money behind the scenes.

[MurrayDelph]

26. What would he be like

if the wizard had given him a brain?

[Lexingtonian]

5. he's talking to Republicans

which is why the 'arguments' sound as kooky as they do. He has never wasted a breath trying to convince rational people or Democrats of a thing.

Of course, what internal Republican 'arguments' are all about is rearrangement of their prejudices and fears into an unbroken line of attack or defense. Here he's talking about rearranging various parts of their xenophobias, racisms, greed, and other egotisms.

[glitch]

8. Well said, nt

[bigbrother05]

6. "Some say * is the spawn of Satan and a she-bitch..." nt

[ArbustoBuster]

9. "Some say" Bush is still coked up and boozing every night.

This is fun!

(And, for all we know, true.)

[LeftyMom]

15. I woudn't call Pappy a she-bitch.

;)

[Liberal Veteran]

7. I believe the federal government ought to provide health care to everyone.

But it should be up to the doctor and patient to decide what kind of health care a person gets.

Nobody, but nobody, should go through what I went through. I have HIV, am on medication, and a full time worker. When I found out my last job was being outsourced, the only thing I could think of was how it might actually cost me my life, not just my stuff.

If we had universal health care, I could have at least had that burden off my shoulders.

[rodeodance]

10. hey, its an AP article. should get some circulation

Bush Using Straw-Man Arguments in Speeches
- By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
Saturday, March 18, 2006



(03-18) 09:52 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --


"Some look at the challenges in Iraq and conclude that the war is lost and not worth another dime or another day," President Bush said recently.


Another time he said, "Some say that if you're Muslim you can't be free."


"There are some really decent people," the president said earlier this year, "who believe that the federal government ought to be the decider of health care ... for all people."


Of course, hardly anyone in mainstream political debate has made such assertions.


When the president starts a sentence with "some say" or offers up what "some in Washington" believe, as he is doing more often these days, a rhetorical retort almost assuredly follows.


The device usually is code for Democrats or other White House opponents. In describing what they advocate, Bush often omits an important nuance or substitutes an extreme stance that bears little resemblance to their actual position.


He typically then says he "strongly disagrees" — conveniently knocking down a straw man of his own making.


Bush routinely is criticized for dressing up events with a too-rosy glow. But experts in political speech say the straw man device, in which the president makes himself appear entirely reasonable by contrast to supposed "critics," is just as problematic.


Because the "some" often go unnamed, Bush can argue that his statements are true in an era of blogs and talk radio. Even so, "'some' suggests a number much larger than is actually out there," said Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania.

[rodeodance]

11. and good for SF for carrying it---grand headline.

[Vektor]

12. I was just about to post this article!

Finally - someone gets it. :-)

[yurbud]

18. yep

[madmark]

13. i absolutely agree with the first argument; the second argument is

at best a strawman and mostly just an irrelevance, the third argument is a form of strawman because it is obviously addressed at a national single payer health ins plan and depending on the plan there need be no requirement that all americans participate in it, though some plans in the world do force such participation. It also implies that the fed gov would be micromanaging peoples choice of doctors and doctors implemenation of care. If it was a real shitty plan that could happen, but its not necessary. Of course everything that Bushco does is real shitty so maybe this argument, as it applies to when Bush is in power, is less than a strawman than you think.

[formercia]

36. He was just describing a worst case scenario

with the Republicans in charge of a single payer system.

I bet the GOP could screw up national health care really well.

[BlueEyedSon]

14. Some say deposing Saddam will result in civil war, eventually

involving the entire middle east in the conflagration - keeping our forces tied down there for decades and driving up oil prices.

[BlueEyedSon]

16. Some say an ill-defined, open-ended war on terra will destroy our economy

and erode our civil rights.

[yurbud]

19. ***VOTE IT UP ON YAHOO***(LINK)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060318/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_s_straw_men_1

Click on five stars at the bottom to make this rise to the top of the news.

[IndyOp]

24. Some say VOTE on Yahoo to get this story read! (n/t)

Done.

:kick:

[yurbud]

32. some say thank you.

[uppityperson]

20. Some say keep tuna and powdered milk under your bed for bird flu

[kentuck]

21. "Who" and "when" are usually the questions....

that tear down straw-man arguments.

[verse18]

23. I'm kind of a novice here and this my be a silly question, but

Why is the main reason that no one will call * on his BS comments?

[rodeodance]

22. "Bush often omits an important nuance or substitutes an extreme stance "

yup
...........When the president starts a sentence with "some say" or offers up what "some in Washington" believe, as he is doing more often these days, a rhetorical retort almost assuredly follows.


The device usually is code for Democrats or other White House opponents. In describing what they advocate, Bush often omits an important nuance or substitutes an extreme stance that bears little resemblance to their actual position.


He typically then says he "strongly disagrees" — conveniently knocking down a straw man of his own making.


Bush routinely is criticized for dressing up events with a too-rosy glow. But experts in political speech say the straw man device, in which the president makes himself appear entirely reasonable by contrast to supposed "critics," is just as problematic.

[NashVegas]

25. The Most Fascinating Thing About This Article

Is that it rips apart Bush and the RW junta's PR tactics, and that it is reported as breaking news by AP, and is not filed under their editorial section. AP is reporting this as FACT.

[yurbud]

33. which they should have been doing all along...

[mitchum]

27. "If I only had a brain"...straw-man arguments are appropriate for him

[Radical Activist]

28. They could have run that headline 6 years ago.

Better late than never I guess.

[Lisa]

29. he also uses some other rhetorical flourishes

I hesitate to call them "techniques", since they are actually mistakes (in terms of logical reasoning).

For example, he takes the "slippery slope" to an extreme ("if you laugh at me, the terrorists win!").

And he also shrieks, glares, and smacks the lectern for his weakest points (opting to crank up the emotion rather than try to buttress his faulty arguments).

[struggle4progress]

30. He's just recycling a standard Reaganaut tactic. eom

[yurbud]

34. MOST DANGEROUS STRAW MAN: small country with handful of nukes

is a threat to us.

As far as I know, only Sen. Bob Graham asked if and why Saddam would use nukes or other WMDs against us, and CIA director George Tenet was forced to say Saddam would only use them as a last resort if he was under attack--the same way we or most other countries would.

Now we are getting a rerun of the same argument. If Iran gets a nuke, they will use it on us, even though at best, they'd get one or two hits here before their entire country is heated to a million degrees by a fraction of our arsenal of 10,000 nuclear warheads. For the same reason, it would be foolish for them to nuke Israel since they probably have their nukes squirreled away somewhere that won't be hit in a first strike.

[Massachusetts]

37. Bush Using Straw-Man Arguments in Speeches

Bush = Straw-Man

[DeepModem Mom]

38. I added your post to DMM's Journal list of personally selected...

DU post recs. How did I miss picking up on W's constant use of this device?