Gallup: More Than Half of Americans Reject Evolution, Back Bible

[sabra]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002154704

Gallup: More Than Half of Americans Reject Evolution, Back Bible

NEW YORK A Gallup report released today reveals that more than half of all Americans, rejecting evolution theory and scientific evidence, agree with the statement, "God created man exactly how Bible describes it."

Another 31% says that man did evolve, but "God guided." Only 12% back evolution and say "God had no part."

Gallup summarized it this way: "Surveys repeatedly show that a substantial portion of Americans do not believe that the theory of evolution best explains where life came from." They are "not so quick to agree with the preponderance of scientific evidence."

The report was written by the director of the The Gallup Poll, Frank Newport.

Breaking down the numbers, Gallup finds that Republican backing for what it calls "God created human beings in present form" stands at 57% with Democrats at 44%.

[rkc3]

1. And who said No Child Left Behind wouldn't be successful.

[Roland99]

82. Hilarious, sad, and true all at the same time.

[saigon68]

146. Toothless Fundy Nut-Jobs

The base of the Chimpanzee

When their children die in the Oil War--

The first thing these clowns say is "He died for Freedom" from the porch of their single wide dump--- of a trailer.

Cannon fodder

and Malt liquor drinkers

[cantstandbush]

168. What do they say about the creation accounts that pre-date the Bible?

What do they say about all those creation stories told by cultures other than the Hebrew culture that pre-date Moses by more than 600 years? What do they say about the flood stories that appear in a multitude of cultures more than 600 years before Moses?

[madeline_con]

180. They say, "I don't believe that."

That's waht they say about anything that doesn't fit their little fanatsy world, it just doesn't exist. It's easier not having to think at all.

[cantstandbush]

221. Too funny and too sad. You are right. n/t

[MountainLaurel]

209. They don't know they exist

Churches certainly don't teach about them, and it's not taught in the public school systems either. Now, if you're in one of the upper-level classes in high school, you might read parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh, but the connection to the biblical flood story and the fact that the Sumerian version predates it won't occur to you (and teachers won't point it out).

[cantstandbush]

220. Sighhhhhhh, i guess you are right. n/t

[MountainLaurel]

227. It was my experience, anyway.

I grew up attending one of these churches (though my parents were quite areligious).

[BootinUp]

2. I should be making more money

With all these idiots in this country.

[GreenArrow]

77. it's not too late

there's one born every minute.

[Ladyhawk]

121. There's a sucker born again every minute. n/t

[Radio_Lady]

170. Oh, Ladyhawk, I LOVE that line! ROFLOL!

[AlienGirl]

175. And two to take him!

[mikeytherat]

97. If you have no scruples, you can be a bazillionaire

Me? I gots scruples.

mikey_the_rat

[Fenris]

3. Follow up article:

"Gallup: More Than Half of Americans Virtually Brain-Dead, Choose Dogma Over Reason."

[Emillereid]

4. Well then, more that 50% of Americans are just plain stupid!

[Imagine My Surprise]

6. Imagine My Surprise

[Emillereid]

36. Great handle. Imagination is one of the cornerstones of

great scientific thinking. Great thinking in general I suppose.

And surprise -- is well a surprise.
A gift
A wonderous thing.
Like a visit from the muse.

Mankind will either evolve -- Or die!

[goforit]

26. Yes indeed and totally brainwashed!!!

[baldguy]

30. 2000 & 2004 proved that.

[devinsgram]

149. That explains why *

Is squattting in the WH. The sad part is, that this administration is counting on their continued stupidity.

[degreesofgray]

5. I don't know anything about science

but I'm pretty darn sure God created the Earth in seven days 6000 years ago. Hey, where did my pet dinosaur go?

[physioex]

61. Sing it with me...

Don't know much about history....
Don't know much biology.....

;)

[superconnected]

62. hahahhahahahha

HHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH

Good one!

[physioex]

67. That's nothing check out post 64.....

Things are really gettin' outta control here...

[Buck Rabbit]

110. Don't know much about a science book,

Don't know much about the French I took.


Take it .....

[budkin]

7. God help us...

Is this for real?

[bullimiami]

8. im sorry but that just doesnt make sense to me.

i think there must be something wrong with the question structure or the method.
or
this nation is truly backward and insane.

[Imagine My Surprise]

38. Unfortunately, I've heard these numbers before. I think it's true...

and Americans are just backward. At the end of the day, many would rather just believe the Bible than think. And to many of these people, there is no middle ground. At least the hateful Pope recognizes evolution.

[GeorgiaDem69]

68. Nothing surprising about this poll result

It shocks me that anyone on here doesn't believe this. Don't you realize that MOST Americans are religious? Americans are much more dedicated to religion as a whole than are Europeans. Its one of the reasons that (1) abortion is such a divisive issue in the U.S. and (2) Dems can't be seen as the "anti-Christian" party if they want to win (which the Republicans have done a decent job of casting Dems as).

[readmoreoften]

130. The problem is that we can't be the party of pro-life and theocracy.

The other party's got that covered. We're the party of reason in an unreasonable time.

[GeorgiaDem69]

199. You overstate the case

Dems don't have to be the "party of Theocracy." However, we can't be the "anti-Christian" party either, unless we want to be a permanent minority. And some people that post here are pretty clearly "anti-Christian." We make a big deal out of being a big-tent party with room for everyone. Well, that obviously ought to include room for Christians, who in all likelihood share most of your values.

That does not mean that the Dems should compromise their values. We shouldn't budge on gay rights or separation of church and govenrment, or anything other fundamental value. Recent great Dems have all been at least superficially religious, like Martin Luther King, JFK, and Clinton.

[Laelth]

134. Welcome to DU ...

... from a fellow, liberal Georgian.

:patriot:

-Laelth

[GeorgiaDem69]

197. Thanks much

[kestrel91316]

166. We're not "antichristian". We're "antichristofascist". BIG DIFFERENCE.

[alarimer]

191. if that's the case, most Americans are IDIOTS

There is a very wide anti-intellectual streak in this country that is a DIRECT correlation to religious fervor. Personally we had better wake up and get smarter or we will truly be left behind. Republicans prefer ignorant and stupid people because those are the ones that buy their ideas and it is a lot easier to instill fear in ignorant, brainwashed people.

[dmkinsey]

43. that second thing you said

the backward/insane thing

[alarcojon]

56. Unfortunately, this is no anomaly

and fits right in with earlier poll results on the subject. It is widespread ignorance - a widespread ignorance we have to accept before we can do anything to combat it.

I think results like these are even more embarrassing for the nation than having Bush as our president - and THAT's saying something. At least you can attribute Bush to voter fraud, fear-mongering, jingoism, a compliant media, propaganda, etc. What can you attribute flagrant disregard for science and reason to?

[Avalux]

9. More than half - "God created man exactly how Bible describes it."

I think I'm going to be sick. :puke:

I know this is gallup, but it's still very disturbing.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. Next question: "How does the Bible describe the creation of man?"

"How, exactly, does the Bible describe the creation of man?"

I'm willing to bet that most Americans have a clearer idea of what the Bill of Rights guarantees.

[Avalux]

18. Let's confound this even further -

A recent poll showed that more Americans know more about the Simpsons than the rights outlined in the First Amendment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4761294.stm

[leveymg]

40. Do they believe that God reached into Adam's rib cage, and pulled out

Eve? Literally? Just like that?

:eyes:

[sofa king]

214. Unfortunately, yes.

Name two common myths of physiology. Chances are that one of them that you named (if you don't actually believe it) is that women have an extra rib.

Not only is it not true, but Eve's name may derive from a http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_095b.html">Sumerian pun on the word "rib". Don't tell the fundies, but much of what they believe about creation appears to be based on polytheistic Sumerian stories (not that Christianity is monotheistic, what with the father, the son, the Holy Ghost, and Mary, who would be a god if she didn't have the bad luck to be a woman). Where was Sumer? A place now better known as Iraq.

And don't even let me get started on the belief in dark corners of America that Jewish people have horns. At least the Klezmatics made a buck off of it.

[leveymg]

247. I like the Klezmatics!

Particularly, "Jews With Horns".

Also recommend: "Rhythm & Jews" and "Rise Up! Shteyt Oyf!"

I have to blow my horns daily.;-)

[koopie57]

248. Actually, I do have an extra rib

I wonder what that means? Could I be Eve reincarnate? I wonder if took my x-rays and showed them to these people if they would lay down and worship me? Naw ... I probably would get stoned to death by apples.

[Comadreja]

271. Now it's Moslems that have the "horns"

Fundies are more likely to be "Christian Zionists" and regarded Sharon with something like reverence.

[TrogL]

262. They claim that women and men have a different number of ribs

in contradiction to my copy of Gray's Anatomy.

[Turbineguy]

141. Deleted

deleted.

(it had something to do with the BFEE)

[IndianaGreen]

102. Translation: Eve was literally created from Adam's rib!

No wonder the country is going down the tubes when science is rejected right off the bat.

Do these jokers think that Jesus will save them when rising sea levels cover most of Florida and most coastal cities and towns?

[Laelth]

135. Sadly, yes. They do.

I have fundinazi in-laws who respond to every global crisis by saying, "Well, it doesn't matter. The rapture is going to happen any day now."

There's just no reasoning with these people. :scared:

-Laelth

[QuettaKid]

10. and that ladies and gents is why

a chimp like bush can occupy the WH.

[BootinUp]

15. I concur. n/t

[rkc3]

22. Wait until 2008 - whoever follows bush is likely to be worse.

Look at the crop of nutters waiting in the wing for the next election - each is far worse than bush in many ways. Guys like Tom Coburn have become very popular among rank and file nutters. Imagine what a guy like him could do if given the opportunity to lead.

[unschooler]

259. That's when it will be time to look at alternative places to live.

Seriously.

[Imagine My Surprise]

41. Bingo!

[ladjf]

52. Part of our problem is that we are unable to fathom the profoundness

of the ignorance in America. Another study showed that 25% of Americans think that the Sun orbits the Earth.

[NYC]

152. Are you joking?

About 25% of Americans thinking the sun orbits the earth? Was that just a joke? I hope so. I sincerely hope so.

[ladjf]

169. No. That was exactly what I thought when I read the statistic

about 25% thinking that the Sun orbited Earth. It was apparently a legitimate study.

[NYC]

171. That's a disappointment.

The more I thought about it, the more I felt I had been foolish asking you if it was true, because it just had to be a joke.

25%? That's a very large number to believe something so ridiculous. Doesn't everyone learn about planets in school? I think so.

[fshrink]

172. And that, ladies and gents, is why

there is very little hope that this country, will play any significant role in the stopping (being optimistic) of our runaway train.

[TechBear_Seattle]

We really ARE a country of idiots, aren't we

As if the reelection of * wasn't proof enough.

[mediaman007]

72. No wonder everyone thinks that I'm the smartest teacher in my school...

I can read, write and do math. I can think creatively and problem solve.

I guess that public education is no threat to the nation.

[madeline_con]

182. Aren't your coworkers intimidated?

Mine are. I found out we're not supposed to let on we have a brain!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

193. I know a very bright young lady who can't decide

whether to become a teacher or a scientist.

In light of this study, which do you think would be less a waste of her time?

[mediaman007]

251. She would have more of an impact as a teacher...

unless she taught biology!

[physioex]

11. Organized Relligion....

Perfect tool to control the weak minded masses. I guess it is hard to accept that no one knows for certain what happens after death. And it is easy to get fooled by the Charlatons that promise ever lasting life....

[ladjf]

53. Organized religion = organized voodoo = extinction

[54anickel]

133. It is not so much the promise of everlasting life. It is the fear of the

wrath of God, and spending that everlasting life in the torments of hell that many religions use and abuse.

Religion doesn't control people with the promise of everlasting life, it controls using fear of hell and Gods wrath. Once they got people to buy into the idea that the Bible should be read and taken literally, they took control. That way, there is only one way to interpret it - their way. Of course it makes absolutely no sense when you attempt to read it that way, but they're there to help you sort it all out. :crazy:

[physioex]

178. Essentially what I am saying......

You just put it more eloquently.... :)

[sharp_stick]

12. That's always scared me

but I think it has more to do with a fear of death and the unknown. Religion has offered easy answers to people since we crawled out of caves.

The part that's bothered me the most though is the line
They are "not so quick to agree with the preponderance of scientific evidence." It's not that they don't agree it's that they don't understand. The scientific evidence is overwhelming but it's complex and everyone knows that if there's one thing a republican dislikes it's complexity.

[calimary]

25. Yes, indeed. After all, wasn't it chairman kkkarl who said that

too much education is not necessarily a good thing?

Frightful, the state of affairs of this country.

[HuffleClaw]

13. bwaaahahahaaaaa

is HALF the public really that deluded? god (hehehe) help us all.

[hobbit709]

14. "Most people

can't think, won't think and wouldn't know how to think even if their lives depended on it."-Robert A. Heinlein

And most of them can't count past 10 with their shoes on either.

[Imagine My Surprise]

44. On? how kind.

[reprobate]

181. Clark's Law: Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguisable

......from magic.

This nation is a perfect arguement for it's truth.

[NC_Nurse]

17. HAHAHAHA!

For some reason, that just cracks me up!:rofl:

'Splains a lot, don't it?

[Dover]

19. I'd like more details about that poll. I don't believe it.......

And what it also suggests is that half of the voting public are basically fundamentalists, which I'm SURE is false. Don't trust polls. They are just another tool of persuasion to manipulate group-think.

[Hobarticus]

32. Yeah...polls represent the people ASKED, not every living soul

...and they mathematically project onto the general population.

If i picked a couple dozen people that I know and asked this question, I imagine the results in favor of creation would hover around zero.

You can skew any question to any targetted group and get any result you desire. I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

[delete_bush]

Properly designed, polls accurately

reflect the overall population. Taking this with a grain of salt does not change this. Asking 24 of your friends is not the same as polling a cross section of the population. Gallup has been at this for a long time, I see no reason to doubt the results as to the questions asked.

[Hobarticus]

73. Suit yourself n/t

[depakid]

93. If you see no reason to doubt

then I'm guessing you've never taken a college statistics class where polling has been discussed in any detail.

[delete_bush]

127. As a matter of fact I have.

I understand the concept of political bias in polling. I also understand, for example, that in a true random sample of a 300 million population a sample size of less than 2,000 will provide a level of 99% confidence in the results, within a 3% margin of error.

That I see no reason to doubt the results is based on a sampling of my own experience and too many other polls with similar results when faith and religion are the topic.

Such as this 2004 poll…81 percent of Americans believe in heaven, and 70 percent believe in hell. Those figures are up from 72 percent and 56 percent, respectively, since 1997.

Belief in heaven or hell is stronger among Republicans, frequent church-goers, Southerners and those with a high school diploma or less.

More than three-fourths of Americans - 78 percent - believe in angels, up from 72 percent in 1994. Belief in the devil has also grown - 70 percent of Americans believe in the devil, up from 65 percent in 1994.

So you can quibble if you will about the numbers, or make a snide little comment about statistics classes, but even if these numbers are overstated by 200% they’re far too high for me, which is why I see no reason to doubt the results in general and why most posters are commenting on the potential impact this perceived ignorance has on society.

[depakid]

228. You might want to look into

sampling bias (I guarantee that non-response bias is present here) and also the way that Gallup does its multi-stage clustering.

Gallup almost NEVER has a representative sample. The organization is a joke- they quite literally get laughed at in Academia- and held up as an example of how NOT to do research.

You can run all of the stats you want. You can show me a p value of .001 and it won't mean shit- because you don't have a representative sample.

Organizations like Gallup are in the business to influence public opinion- not to discover it or show you results thst reflect it.

Just becuase they run some numbers and claim to be "scientific" doesn't mean that they are.

[reprobate]

183. IMO Gallup is part of the media, which is right leaning at least.

In these days of Goebellian propoganda usage by the right, I will beleive little of what I read from them. Particularly when it goes against everything I've learned all my life.

I agree that many in this country are little short of idiocy, but whether a majority are so unreasonable, I will withhold my judgement.

[TankLV]

156. The only way you could be correct if this is what was literally done,

which is not.

Or a "push poll", which it is not.

[leftstreet]

49. Good details at this link

http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=118

Most Americans say they are familiar with creationism and evolution, but there is some confusion about the terms' meaning. In an August 2005 Gallup poll, 58% of the public said that creationism was definitely or probably true as an explanation for the origin and development of life, but 55% also said this about evolution. Since creationism and evolution are incompatible as explanations, some portion of the public is clearly confused about the meaning of the terms.

A 1999 Fox News poll of registered voters offered respondents the explicit option to say that both Darwin's theory of evolution and the biblical account of creation were true: 26% said both were. Similarly, Pew's July 2005 poll found that about nearly three-in-ten of those who oppose the teaching of creationism nonetheless personally accept creationist accounts of life's origins, and 14% of those who accept natural selection favor teaching creationism instead of evolution.

The term "intelligent design" is still unknown to much of the public. In the August 2005 Gallup survey, 52% said they were either "not too familiar" or "not at all familiar" with the phrase. By comparison, only 17% and 24% were not familiar with "evolution" and "creationism," respectively. Given the low level of public recognition of the term, "intelligent design" is rarely mentioned in polling on the origins of life.

[Solon]

116. This is what pisses me off!

In an August 2005 Gallup poll, 58% of the public said that creationism was definitely or probably true as an explanation for the origin and development of life, but 55% also said this about evolution.

Evolution says NOTHING about the ORIGIN of life, the theory only covers the evolution of LIFE from PREEXISTING LIFE!!!!!! Sorry for the caps, but shit on a shingle, why the fuck do these ignoramuses even get to make such a Bullshit poll? Abiogenesis, the theory that life came from non-life is INDEPENDENT of EVOLUTIONARY THEORY, for fucks sake, I hate these fucking nitwits!

[Runcible Spoon]

124. maybe they meant origin of "human life" (??)

in which case evolution DOES have a lot to say, at least in terms of origin of human species but certainly not the origin of the most primordial forms of life... not to excuse sloppy and/or misleading wording in poll questions...

[Solon]

126. The way it was worded means, not human life exclusively...

at least, that is how I would take it, its more than just poor wording, its a damn shame that people have no fucking clue what scientific theories cover, in fact, don't even know WHAT the process of Scientific discovery entails. Its a fucking shame.

[Zodiak]

125. As a biologist

I weep.

[delete_bush]

20. More than 50% of Americans voted

for a chimp for President. No wonder they're so uptight, major cognitive dissonance going on here.

I give up.

[chaumont58]

21. Who should be surprised? Half of this country voted to reelect a chimp

Religion gets more followers during good times than bad. The history of this country is fairly good, if you are white. The history of Europe is not so good, and they don't have as many fundies there.

[KOBUK]

23. If God created man in his image !

I want to know what God is doing with that giant penis ???

[physioex]

64. Remeber....

Everytime you masturbate god kills a kitten. Or maybe.......he kills a kitten everytime he masturbates? ;)

[Joanne98]

24. Americans are too stupid to compete in a global economy!

Too stupid too think and too fat to dig ditches! The GOP is to blame for this!

[delete_bush]

31. Ya think?

Support for this Bible view rises steadily with age: from 43% for those 18 to 29, to 59% for those 65 and older. It declines steadily with education, dropping from 58% for those with high school degrees to a still-substantial 25% with postgraduate degrees.

Newport wraps it up: "Several characteristics correlate with belief in the biblical explanation for the origin of humans. Those with lower levels of education, those who attend church regularly, those who are 65 and older, and those who identify with the Republican Party are more likely to believe that God created humans 'as is,' than are those who do not share these characteristics."

[SoCalDem]

27. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we are ignorant

Most people have accepted the obvious, and although some hang onto religious vestiges for philosophical and cultural reasons, they have accepted the fact that science and education DO exist, and DO explain a lot more than the myths and ancient beliefs do.

[Mandate My Ass]

28. I call B.S. This is to grease the skids for the coming theocracy

They'll claim it's what the people wanted and they couldn't stand in the way of the will of the people, now could they? They mean to tell me there aren't any more important issues facing the nation for the polling companies to probe than subjective beliefs regarding who or what got us here?

[Kolesar]

47. I'll vote *yours* as the best answer on this thread

with a nod to the "I'd like to see the methodology" critics,...

[Mandate My Ass]

55. Yes, that too.

I know quite a few born agains and I've never heard this come out of their mouths or heard of them saying this second hand. When the big "evolution vs. ID" flap blew up a few months ago in the PA schools, most people who identified as Christians said ID should not be taught in science class and believed in the separation of church and state.

Then they kicked the fundies who started this shit right off the school board. EVERY. LAST.ONE. Yet they persist with this shit. Desensitization, IMHO. What this poll is saying is: get used to the fact that the fundies outnumber you and you have to bow to their wishes.

Fuggedaboudit. :dunce:

[Kolesar]

76. "They'll be monkeys over...the blackboards of Dover"

Excuse me for slaughtering a sentimental WW2 classic from the British Isles.

[BiggJawn]

195. There went my keyboard again!

There'll be Illumination and Laughter,
and Wisdom ever after,
Tomorrow, when the world
is Free!
:spray:

[glitch]

100. Second this. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

66. I do not believe these numbers either. I smell a rat.

i live in a very conservative part of Illinois. 80% here voted for Bush in 04. (I got the direct polling numbers)
There are multiple choices for churches, from evangelical, catholic, baptist, protestant, lutheran, all within 2 miles of my front door. (I tried to count onces, and lost count at 14)

from my personal checking out, with the average age being 50s, church going, I suspect (with a lot of personal polling and discussions) that 70% here understand and follow evolution, with 20-25 being convinced of creationism or god's little helping hand in evolution, with another 5-10% being strictly insane or non compos mentos.

in 2004, 1 out of 4 cars had Bush stickers. today, not one car has a bush sticker. Not one.

[ikri]

194. To quote Frank Herbert:

The downfall of democracy is the tyranny of the minority cloaked in the mask of the majority

Frank Herbert wrote that over 20 years ago and would be be stunned how accurate that quote is today.

[Cults4Bush]

29. Wow almost half of dems dont believe in evolution!

lol, how many here?

[ernstbass]

33. The opiate of the masses

[Epiphany4z]

34. Wow

I just dont see this ...I mean I know some very religious people who are even republican that do not believe that god created man exactly how the bible describes...most believe there was some evolution involved....well if true it does explain a lot...sigh

[xchrom]

35. ...

:rofl:

more glad than ever that i live in the bay area.

[physioex]

69. I hear ya....

I am glad to be outta the butthole area I used to live, and live in more multi ethnic area that I am now......

[Mountainman]

37. Some believe Bush was sent by God to save them from terrorists too.

So f___ing what. The majority of Americans are ill educated. They cannot reconcile reality with their church's teachings which do not have to rely on the truth or logic. I remember when I was a kid in Catholic school and I questioned the nuns about things they told me that my dad said did not make sense. I was told by the nuns that they were mysteries and to believe them anyway. I didn't and still don't believe them.

[JeffR]

39. Two thoughts:

1. Yes, there are some stupid people out there. A few of them might even be Democrats.

2. Ask yourself, re: your friends, family members, co-workers and so on, how many people you know who believe "God created man exactly how Bible describes it".

As an earlier response suggested, the poll result is so patently ridiculous - even counting the stupid people out there - that the question and/or the methodology must be so screwed up that the result is meaningless.

I'm willing to believe there are a lot of luddite pinheaded Christ-for-Dummies Christians out there across America who really feel this way about evolution, but I do not accept the numbers in this poll. It reeks as vividly as anything that ever came out of Jerry Falwell's mouth.

Just my opinion.

[Gman]

42. Well that finally settles it. ID is sound science

This poll will be quoted back by ID'ers ad nauseum for many weeks and months to come as proof ID is sound science.

[Ediacara]

45. A Gallup Poll? Let's recalibrate that with reality...

Gallup used to be the most reliable poll out there, but under new "management" they've become a fundy/GOP shill, and their polling is less accurate than partisan pollsters like Strategic Vision. If Gallup says 53% are Young Earth Creationists, I'd safely say the number is closer to 40%....

[Spazito]

46. It's Gallup, the repub shill polling guy, nuff said, imo

Sample polling question:

Do you believe in the bible or do you want to go to hell:

Yes

No, I want to go to hell


***Disclaimer***
Not a real question but who wants to bet that it is not far from the truth, lol.

[Ediacara]

48. You and had the same reaction to this!

It's interesting to note that creationists tend to be a) senior citizens b) highly uneducated and c) Republicans.

[Spazito]

51. Yep, as soon as I see it is a Gallup poll I know it is a repub

talking point poll with the numbers so skewed it is laughable.

[ladjf]

50. That's a scary statistic.

[Megahurtz]

54. So do they actually think that all of those

Dinosaur bones and Neanderthal Man bones etc. that scientists have found are completely fake?:shrug:

[JeffR]

57. No, God put them there

He's such a kidder.

[TankLV]

161. And how 'bout all the human bones they found INSIDE the dinosaurs!

The history books never mention that!

6000 years is a pretty long time, after all

[madeline_con]

184. It 's a test of faith.

I kid you not, I heard this on a televangelist show! :puke:

[UpInArms]

58. These people that do not support evolution should be more than

willing to get rid of all modern conveniences, the telephone, the computer, the television, airplanes, automobiles, washers, dryers, microwaves and anything else that has cluttered mankind's existence since the year 01 AD and go back to their freakin' caves.

Then, and only then, will I support their ridiculous bibble theories.

[madeline_con]

185. I'd settle for having them "raptured up" . n/t

[zara]

59. 4000 years of history so much easier to comprehend that 4 billion!

People are just mammals!

[lapfog_1]

60. Jaywalking strikes again - n/t

[Disturbed]

78. I suspect that millions of Americans have little knowledge..

of Darwin's Theories. This poll is RW slanted propaganda to bolster the RW Agenda. Neo Fascism is the trend and RW phony religion is a ploy to garner support for the Neo Fascist take over of America.

The Right Wing Agenda

Abolish

Social Security
Medicare
Employer supplied health insurance
Welfare
FEMA
Abortion Rights
Collective Bargaining
EPA
Public Education
Public Housing
IRS

[madeline_con]

186. Those who reject evolutionary theory don't understand it. n/t

[flaminbats]

63. Cretinism is alive and well..

whoops, did I mean creationism? :rofl:

[superconnected]

65. I don't believe in the results of this poll.

[Oreegone]

70. Just like the Bible says?

Most people know less about the bible than they do the Constitution. I bet if you asked them what it actually says they would be clueless.

[daleo]

71. I find this hard to believe

Have people really become that stupid, or has it just become popular to claim you believe this?

[GeorgiaDem69]

83. Again, this isn't hard to believe

Americans as a whole are a religious group of people and every poll I see says that a majority believe in creation as opposed to evolution.

[superconnected]

151. yes but

even though plenty believe God created the world, all I know have also believed in evolution.

[GeorgiaDem69]

200. True

[GoddessOfGuinness]

74. If we could convince people that hell awaits stupid people

they'd come around.

[FiveGoodMen]

75. In real life, of course, hell awaits those living NEAR stupid people.

[madeline_con]

188. Awaits? It has arrived. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

256. Too true.

[madeline_con]

187. No, they'd decide they were all geniuses. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

79. If Gallup were around in 1400

his polls would have shown that more than half the population believed the earth was flat.

Other than people's ignorance, what would that prove?

Reality doesn't change because you take a poll!

[shochet]

92. funny, I just said the same thing.

These people are idiots.

[CJCRANE]

80. A good way to combat the creationists

would be to say "evolution is part of God's plan".

Betcha a lot of Christians would be willing to go along with that.

[dave29]

81. This poll had an unnatural selection of respondants me thinks

If not, God will sort them out.

[fknobbit]

84. show of hands

How many have read Darwin's "The Origin of Species" I doubt very seriously that any who denounce him have. In fact I doubt that they would be capable of comprehending what Darwin is saying, if they actually tried.

[m0nkeyneck]

90. and would be surprised to learn that evolution would...

still be a prevailing theory if darwin had never been born.

[fknobbit]

192. Yup

In fact Wallace was about to scoop him because darwin was afraid to publish.

[WillParkinson]

85. Breaking news!

This just in:

Half of Americans really do think the earth is flat. Reject all proof. Demand new globe.

[TankLV]

163. You mean demand new PLATE.

Why ever would they want a GLOBE?!?!

[onehandle]

86. Fine with me.

As long as creationism is Not offered as an alternative to evolution in schools.

One is a humanities/religious subject, one is a science subject.

Believe what you want. Belief can not be proved. Science can.

[OKthatsIT]

87. Frank M. Newport, The Gallop Poll, appears regularly on CNN

nahhhhhhhh....Dont believe the hype.

[still_one]

88. if this continues the U.S. will not survive

[shochet]

89. The 14th century Gallup Poll: 87% think the world is flat. (n/t)

[depakid]

91. Gallup's really credible on this point. LOL

If anyone believes this, then they're as naive as the fundies- or the conservative so called "Christians" who've run the Gallup organization for decades.

Of course, that won't keep some DU'ers from dancing to their tune.....

[onehandle]

94. Does anyone know the results of this poll in Europe and China?

Since the United States will be irrelevant in a few decades, I'd like to know what the keepers of the future think.

[muriel_volestrangler]

128. Similar recent poll in the UK

Over 2,000 participants took part in the survey, and were asked what best described their view of the origin and development of life:

* 22% chose creationism
* 17% opted for intelligent design
* 48% selected evolution theory
* and the rest did not know.
...
When given a choice of three descriptions for the development of life on Earth, people were asked which one or ones they would like to see taught in science lessons in British schools:

* 44% said creationism should be included
* 41% intelligent design
* 69% wanted evolution as part of the science curriculum.

Participants over 55 were less likely to choose evolution over other groups.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

which is still incredibly depressing. Poll details: http://www.mori.com/polls/2006/bbc-horizon.shtml

[FlaGranny]

245. I find it very weird that

seniors are so much more into believing in creationism. We are children of the 50s and 60s for god's sake. It must have something to do with getting old and starting to worry about death.

[muriel_volestrangler]

253. Younger people were taught about DNA at school

and may have been taught more about evolution in school too. It's not a question of all older people believing in creationism, of course, but I would think that, in general, in both the US and UK, education has talked more about evolution as time has gone on. And some of the older people are children of the 30s. When was evolution finally allowed to be taught in parts of the USA?

[FlaGranny]

266. You got me there on the teaching of evolution.

I really don't remember being taught it in school, but I grew up with the idea in my home. My father was a self educated man and his entire life he had an insatiable appetite for knowledge. My house was loaded with books on science and astronomy. I guess I was just lucky to grow up with a dad like that. He even read the encylopedia. I did too. I grew up with a love for science fiction and my hero was/is Isaac Asimov. There was never a question in my mind about whether evolution was real or not.

[GeorgiaDem69]

95. Look, this is consistent with other polls

Quotes from a 2004 Gallup poll

"A plurality of Americans--45 percent--say man was created by God in his present form, while 38 percent say man developed over time as God guided the process. Just 13 percent said God had no role in the process.

Yet a smaller percentage, 34 percent, said the Bible is the actual word of God and should be read literally."

2004 Newsweek Poll

"Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas—the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East—is historically accurate. Twenty-four percent of Americans believe the story of Christmas is a theological invention written to affirm faith in Jesus Christ, the poll shows. In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate."

"Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty-three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea."

[ixion]

96. science is not a democracy

and religion is not science, no matter HOW many people may think otherwise.

[0007]

98. LOL!! We always knew that half of the people were brain dead.

What else is new?

[GeorgiaDem69]

103. Is your point that all people who believe in creation

or something like it are brain dead? That would include an awful lot of Democrats.

[rexcat]

104. I agree with 0007...

If you want to believe in superstitious ideas go for it but we who look at the scientific evidence that supports evolution my bets are on evolution, rational thought and science, not superstitious ideas!

[GeorgiaDem69]

108. I'm not arguing with that at all

I just think that any "strategy" that belittles the beliefs of Christians is going to lead to another ass-kicking for the Dems

[rexcat]

143. I don't think a post on DU really amounts to a strategy...

of belittling christians. What I see is christians on DU (not all but a fair share) and in society have very thin skins. I think it has to do with a persecution complex or something of that nature.

[Bacchus39]

230. so do you believe in spontaneous generation of life??

that was debunked by science centuries ago.

[rexcat]

241. Is your post directed at me?

I agree with 0007 that 1/2 of the population, those who believe in the literal interpretation of the bible and who think evolution is bunk, are less than intelligent. At least that what I thought 0007 was saying. As a microbiologist I can confirm that spontaneous generation of life does not happen. But for those who believe in the Genesis story spontaneous generation happened. As an atheist I have issues with those who believe in god but they have a fundamental right to believe in what they want to even though it goes against the empirical data. It is their prerogative but keep the garbage away from me!

[trotsky]

260. Say what?

that was debunked by science centuries ago

It was? Can you provide me with those details? Especially since the science of "centuries ago" wasn't even aware of the hypothesis of common descent.

[okieinpain]

258. how about this, I believe god is scientist.

[0007]

109. Who in the fuck said anything about the Democratic folks?

Lets keep the oranges and apples and the nuts separated, 'eh?

[pitohui]

112. no one denies that there are some stupid democrats

we just prefer not to put our brain dead in positions of high office, the stupid will always be with you, but you needn't elect them president and calling a drooling mumbling alzheimer's victim a great communicator etc.

there are stupid in all parties but only one of the parties is shameless abt putting mentally incompetent figureheads in the top positions

[GeorgiaDem69]

202. That's a pretty ridiculous position

Every elected president has at least paid lip service to Christianity. Its almost impossible to win national office if you aren't Christian (obviously not necessarily a good thing). A Recent Dem who one office and was open about religion is Kilgore in Virginia.

[VegasWolf]

119. Yes, if not brain-dead, then certainly not very bright. nt

[readmoreoften]

131. Ignorant would be the right word. /nt

[TankLV]

164. Yes - to answer you directly.

I don't care what they call themselves.

[glitch]

99. Who the hell trusts Gallup polls anymore? nt

[0007]

154. No one!

[dave29]

101. The great thing about Evolution:

It doesn't care what we think

[cookiebird]

113. Nor does the theory need a popular vote

to describe what occurs. good work, Dave 29. :-)

[LiberalFighter]

105. The Bible did not exist during the time of Jesus

The Bible was never the Bible until after 300 AD

Hammurabi Code is the basis of all laws NOT the Bible

Why wasn't the Commandments not set in stone or for that matter the Mosaic Law created until almost 400 years after the Hammurabi Code?

The Hammurabi Code was during 1792-1750 B.C.
The Ten Commandments were handed down along with other laws about 1300 B.C. Shouldn't there had been the Ten Commandments at the very beginning?

[dave29]

118. Lets do some math.

Science, God's arch nemesis, says the Earth has been around since about 4.6 billion years ago. God gave us the Ten Commandments some 5000 years ago.

So, after the formation of the Earth, how many 5000 year intervals passed before God gave us his commandments? Lets do the math.

4,600,000,000 years / 5000 year interval = 920,000 5,000 year intervals before God told us how to behave.

But that is not a fair description since humanity only showed up in somewhat current form about 200,000 years ago.

So, back to the math.

200,000 years / 5000 year interval = 40 5,000 year intervals God waited before he told us how to behave.

This, in my opinion, makes God a deadbeat Dad. Especially since the moment things got bad for him here on Earth, he disappeared completely, and stopped providing child support.

[reprobate]

279. Let's not forget that Moses, Commandments, et al are MYTHOLOGY.

Or IOW, folklore. It's more likely that this particular folktale is directly traceable back to the Code Hammurabi, as one particular tribe's take on the code. And all of this was word of mouth until it was transcribed sometime around the eigth century BC.

In fact if you look closely you'll find that most of western religion involves copying from previous beliefs. Even the new testament is an adaptation of the Osiris-Dionysus cult, copying every feature of the one myth to the other. I recommend "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. Explains the history of the Godman mythologies.

[Career Prole]

106. And these people are different from Muslim extremists how?

Where's that coin-toss smiley?

[TheModernTerrorist]

140. they're not different

many people in this country in positions of power have stated publicly that they want this country to be a religious state, a counterpoint the Muslim extremism
...and that frightens me.

[Career Prole]

158. The "Battle of the Books"

will wind up being the death of us all.

[TheModernTerrorist]

160. "Are you Ready to (throw your) ROCK?!?!?!?!?!"

commence the stoning :-)

[pitohui]

107. and still it moves

a poll on matters of science is silly, what is is, yeah half the people are below average in intelligence and even the average is scary low when it comes down to brass tacks

think abt the kids you knew in school w. an IQ of 100

they weren't too sharp, now were they?

it is sad that most people are stupid but there it is, we need to hurry up and find that technology tim leary used to talk abt for increase of intelligence

[Mr_Spock]

111. Every other person you meet is a mallet head

And we call these "modern times" :rofl:

What a friggin' joke - we're no better than neanderthals.

[cain_7777]

114. One Nation Under Educated

As a biologist it deeply worry's me that this country can't grasp something as simple as Evolution. These bible humpers are so close minded that they would rather have blind faith than rationally consider the fossil records and genetic proof. Nietzsche once said, "faith means not wanting to know what is true." Especially when it destroys all the lies you have been taught since childhood about christianity, or religion in general. Religious people are always a couple hundred years behind rational men. "What's that, you don't believe that we are the center of God's universe, but rather we spin around the Sun. How ludicrous! Drink this Hemlock."

The Intelligent Design people tried to spin the Theory of Evolution as only a "Theory." This theory however is literally set in stone. Every fossil record is exactly where it is suppose to be in time and clearly proves evolution and can be tested and retested with the same results every time. What these biblical faux scientists are trying to suggest is that Evolution is a Hypothesis; which, it is not. Intelligent Design is a Hypothesis and can be refuted right from the start because evolution is not a very intelligent, organism evolve out of trial and error. If Intelligence controlled the genetic flow it would be much more efficient and calculated instead of "hey, we're a new set of mutated genes lets see if our traits help or hinder you in the survival of the fittest. If you live then pass us on in your offspring, if not... that's life." Everyone in this country needs a higher education free from religious influence. $400 Billion would have been much better spent on the needs of this country and our children instead of killing thousands in an illegal war.

[VegasWolf]

115. One half the population of America believes in invisible sKy people. So

what is surprising here?

[truthisfreedom]

117. who gives a rat's ass? i certainly don't care what anyone thinks... and

most people realize that without scientific investigation of everything, we're doomed.

[Ladyhawk]

120. Most of the people I know are young earth creationists.

I've started looking at them as mentally disturbed. I don't know how else to explain it. The rub is that some of them are indeed educated. :shrug:

I think belief in young earth creationism can be directly attributed to the resurgence of fundamentalist Christianity. In order to believe they'll be spending eternity in heaven, adherents to fundamentalism must also accept a literal interpretation of the creation event. They are too afraid to ponder the possibility of their own annihilation upon death. I have finally decided annihilation is more than a possibility. It is a probability...a very high probability.

I guess folks tend to believe what they want to believe. I took the path of seeking truth. I may not have liked all the answers, but at least at the end of the day I can look myself in the eye and know I followed where truth led.

When folks start deluding themselves they can become dangerous. “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” – Voltaire

[ThoughtCriminal]

122. My favorite Fundy belief: Men have one fewer ribs than women

I don't know how many creationists actually think this is true, but I have encountered it - x-Rays and skeletal remains probably wouldn't convince them either (science is witchcraft). I guess this means that if a man loses a finger in an accident, all his male offspring will have a missing finger too.

[dave29]

123. If you eat the McRib sandwich, it grows back over time

that's what I hear anyway

[TankLV]

165. I LOVE those! - but it worries me how DO they create those "ribs"

and what are they made of?

I don't really want to know, tho, they are soooooo tasty...

[madeline_con]

189. Soy protein.

[readmoreoften]

129. And that, my friends, is why we're screwed.

This pernicious adherence to fantasy is going to destroy us.

[indie_voter]

138. yep. n/t

[Laelth]

132. OMG ... what country am I in?

Our enlightenment forefathers have got to be rolling over in their graves. This is absolutely astounding. I weep for my country!

:cry:

-Laelth

[Joey Liberal]

136. It proves that we have a lot of morons in this country n.t

[scarface2004]

137. oh yeah!!

what about the lord my god...the flying spagetti monster!!!

[agincourt]

139. Actually a lot of this comes down to ego.

A God that waited 13 billion years to hear a prayer on this earth is just too much for them. A God that waited 9 billion years to create earth from planetesimals is just too remote for them. A God that had animals living on earth for 4 billion years before our dawn of existance is just too humbling for the Christians. They want to be blowing their horns on the stage of drama with this God right away, they want to be communicating with it from the start of the world. A sublime sphinxlike God that doesn't have a human personality is more humbling than they could bear. They want a smaller God that they can curry favor with, rather than One that exists on the other side of the point of singularity.

[1620rock]

148. Now I believe in de-evolution...sad. n/t

[fshrink]

173. It's called "extinction".

[Orsino]

142. Learn to speak Chinese. n/t

[Dr Ron]

144. Better results from heads of biology departments

A survey of the heads of biology departments showed that there is no controversy over evolution as far as they are concerned.

More here:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2048


I've been posting on evolution versus creationism/intelligent design frequently at The Democratic Daily. Many posts are here:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/index.php?s=intelligent+design

[JerseygirlCT]

145. I just don't believe this

Honestly. I really wonder how the questions were phrased.

[CRK7376]

147. oh God....ooopppps

Oh well, I believe in Evolution and the Scientific Theory. I hate the No Child Left Behind law. It's crippling our Public Schools.

[thinkingwoman]

150. Gallup oversamples republicans

and idiots.

Therefore, these results are not surprising.

[TankLV]

153. More than half of all Amerikkkans are fucking STUPID IDIOTS!

But I already knew that...

[hyphenate]

155. Well, there you go!

Now we know why this horrendous administration got elected:

More than 1/2 of the country is a bunch of dumb shits!

[pinniped]

157. Man should not have to fall prey to these deadly infectious diseases.

.

[neuvocat]

159. What's ironic is that most don't bother to even read it.

Otherwise you wouldn't see or hear any of them saying it is ok to kill homosexuals, bomb civillians, defend the fleecing of the poor, or lie straight to your face just to win an argument.

[bleedingheart]

162. The poll was probably designed to be God vs The Atheist Scientists

and that is why people voted the way they did.

There are plenty of people who believe that God sparked the universe...and agree with evolution...but they interwine those beliefs...but this poll asked people to pick between God and Science...and that isn't fair...

[mike_c]

167. interestingly, a "creation science" proponent is coming to speak...

...on my campus tomorrow IN THE BIOLOGY DEPARTMENT. Needless to say, my colleagues and I are livid. The sponsors got the lecture hall under false pretenses-- evidently a student identifying himself as representing the Geology Dept. contacted the biology office asking if they could book our biggest lecture facility for a guest speaker giving a seminar about fossils. The biology office readily agreed-- it's a topic of mutual interest-- but later we discovered the truth when the fliers went up. The student was actually representing the Campus Crusade for Christ and the Geology Dept claims never to have heard from him. When we tried to cancel the room reservation-- it was obtained on false pretenses, after all-- the campus xtian organizations went ballistic, especially CCFC, claiming we were trying to censor their religious views. Since we'd already booked them the room, it was hard to argue otherwise, so the show will go on as planned tomorrow afternoon. Many of us are going to picket it and distribute anti- "creation science" literature at the lecture room doors, but we're not going to engage the speakers in debate-- that's precisely what they want. The young xtians are all crowing about how they "duped" the Biology Dept into hosting their creation science symposium.

[madeline_con]

190. "... we're not going to engage the speakers in debate..."

Big mistake, IMO. You could SO blow them out of the water!

[mike_c]

205. no, they're really good at obfuscating and evading, and ultimately...

...simply denying the truth. Trying to argue with them just makes scientists look shrill. Their guys will have advanced degrees too-- NOT in biology-- but they won't be pushovers. Finally, there are too many ways to simply derail rational arguments:

Creationist: OK, let me ask you, are you familiar with Merkel's seminal 1927 paper from the Transactions of the Latvian Natural Philosophy and History Society? The one in which Merkel et al demonstrated that the theoretical fluid dynamics of maelstroms during the Great Flood likely account for the modern appearance of antiquity in the geologic record?

Biologist: Huh? Maelstroms in the Great Flood? No, of course not....

Creationist: Well! There you have it! Hard to dispute the point if you're not familiar with the basic literature, isn't it? Next question please!


At some level, arguing with creationists is like participating in a Monty Python skit.

[rexcat]

238. It is not a mistake to engage these people...

because that is what they want. By engaging them it gives them credibility and they use it to their advantage. They will say "on such and such a campus the science department debated us, therefore what we say is of value in the scientific community, etc, etc, etc." This was one of the major reasons Stephen Jay Gould would never debate them. The fundies are manipulative and they lie.

[drhilarius]

174. We are a country of idiots. nt

[currents]

176. If you're stupid enough to believe in God, you need a serious brain adjust

Damn, stupid people piss me off.

[memory]

177. No. We are a country of poorly placed faith.

Faith in a book cobbled together by men and taken as the sacred word of an Old Testament God. Faith in a government that would never do things like lie to us or use our children as war fodder for oil and call it "spreading democracy".

In our local paper today was ANOTHER letter explaining that the reason we have such a bad drought right now is the recently implemented lottery. "God's heart is broken" because of it and he's withholding the rain to punish us.

This is how a large number of people think. How do we deal with this kind of completely ingrained belief?:shrug::scared:

[madeline_con]

179. I wonder how many here ever saw this poll.

Where was it done? In what publication? How was it worded?

When did the idiots gain such complete control of everything that used to make a tiny bit of sense??!!!

It's time for the Dems to wrest control from the morans!

[4dsc]

196. Considering Jesus never existed..

There is no evidence that a historical Jesus — divine or not — ever existed.

Here is a good overview of the so-called evidence:

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/marshall_gauvin/did_jesus_really_live.html

[GeorgiaDem69]

201. There's actually lots of evidence he existed, although its circumstantial

Granted, as far as I know, no physical evidence. Little evidence of his divinity. That's why its called "faith."

Frankly, if he didn't exist, it would obviously be the greatest conspiracy theory ever. Can you imagine what it would take to convince early Christians to die for someone who never existed?

[NoodleyAppendage]

212. You can thank Constantine, Theodosius, & the Counsel at Nicene

Christianity is a fraud which stretches back to late 300 - early 400 AD, when the late Roman Emperiors MANDATED the religion as a means to consolidate their power. Without this intervention and legitimization, Xtianity would be just another footnote in the book of failed religious sects.

BTW - the Jesus ossuary found 2-3 years ago was determined to be a modern fraud by a well-known, disreputable Israeli antiquities dealer/forger.

JB

[GeorgiaDem69]

215. Christianity might be a fraud

But I haven't seen anything to prove it is and I'd wager about 95% of academics believe that Jesus existed.

Just because you want it to be a fraud doesn't make it one. And you might want to review your history--the gospels were written about 30-40 years after Jesus died, so the evidence has been around a little longer than late 300 AD.

I think your view of the historical foundations of Christianity are a little, shall we say, outside the mainstream.

[NoodleyAppendage]

240. The Gospels were written and REWRITTEN over the course of 500-600 years.

I respect your right to believe in whatever you want, but I would seriously encourage you to read OBJECTIVE historical perspectives on the evolution of Xtianity over the centuries. The Gospels have undergone numerous revisions and expulsions (Apocrypha); none moreso than during the period between Paul's work and the establishment of the Roman church.

Jesus may have been a real person, but you will never be able to provide evidence of his supposed miracles or his immaculate birth. That is, shall we say, a matter of faith. I choose to put faith in humankind's ability to eventually break the bonds of superstitious belief. If that puts me outside the "mainstream" then so be it. I'd rather not follow the crowd over the cliff.

JB

[Bassic]

198. This is frightening.

Power must be taken away from these people's hands. Only if they lose power will hteir kids be able to learn anything else than the Bible and make up their own friggin minds.

[Toucano]

203. Gallup: More than half of Americans prefer false, easy answers

over difficult truth and fact.

This says a lot about why Bush has gotten away with it.

[trixie]

204. How does that number compare

To the % that voted for Bush? :rofl:

[gauguin57]

206. And again, all of Europe sits back on its haunches and laughs at the USA!

"Stupid Americans! Hahaha!"

I'm going back to bed. This is too much for me.

[Felix Mala]

207. Kurt Vonnegut said: ""The big trouble with dumb bastards

is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart."

- Sirens of Titan

[VirginiaDem]

208. Most depressing news of the week. n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

210. Evolution causes cognitive dissonance in the religious - Facts Hurt.

To agree in evolution as the guiding process, raises uncomfortable questions about the nature of faith and God in many psychically weak individuals. If someone's life is real shitty, then often times the only thing that person has to hold onto is the prospect of a better afterlife and ultimate justice in the hereafter. Death scares the shit out many folks, which is another reason the concept of an afterlife is so appealing.

Evolution is a threat to those "afterlife" protections/promises. If evolution trumps biblical creationism, then what else can scientific evidence trump?

Essentially, the aforementioned poll only highlights that the majority of Americans are scared shitless of the uncertainties of life and seek to escape their earthly circumstances. Seeing how King Chimp has fucked things up, I can't say that I blame them for being a bit afraid.

JB

[slackmaster]

211. You know how dumb the average person is

Half of them are dumber than that.

[ckramer]

213. Gallup: More than half of Americans reject scientific truth

They just don't want to hear it! It's too hard! like math

[fugwb]

219. The question I always ask is after Adam and Eve, who else was procreating?

The only answer I can come up with is somebody had to be fuckin their sister or mother for all of us to come from two people. Never seen a christian that wants to admit that. It's in the bible, so it's gotta be true right? AND if we all came from two people of the same race(we assume)then where did the genetic code for the other races/diversity come in? I asked this question to my bible study teacher when I was twelve, she about had a conniption, but said there was a seperate set of Adam and Eve's for each race(for real tho'). That's when I knew I was being duped. John Stewart quoted a figure saying that 92% of americans beleive there is a God, which I thought was hard to believe as well. I'm part of 'that' 8% I guess.

[delete_bush]

224. Always interesting to see how the Bible is

inerrant until they're presented with a "problem" such as you described. At this point they just make stuff up, like the multiple sets of Adam and Eve, and then go on their merry way. This would be a good moral dilemma question for Dr. Laura (is the bitch still on the radio?).

"Dr. Laura, God has told me to be fruitful and multiply, but I can't decide whether to screw my mom or my sister. This is so morally repugnant to me that I'm also considering the homosexual lifestyle, would that be a viable option? What should a good Judeo-Christian do?"

[NoodleyAppendage]

242. The question of who were Cain & Abel's wives ALWAYS trips them up.

Xtian biblical fundamentalists have NO ANSWER for the origin of Cain & Abel's wives. Try it...and watch the phenomenon of denial in full bloom.

JB

[Comadreja]

272. They'll claim it wasn't incest

That close to "perfection" brother/sister mating didn't have the same genetic dangers. Hey, I used to preach this codswallop. You could call it "creative interpretation" or "excusagetics."

Some facts just can't be spun, though. One is the existence of predators in a world where none were supposed to exist, according to Genesis. Then they'll say that there are some things we weren't meant to understand yet.

[orleans]

216. scary. n/t

[sofa king]

217. "God helps those who help themselves."

I wish those doofuses would spend a little time to look that line up in the Bible.

***Warning, you will go to hell if you read the next line.***




There, that should have scared the Freepers off. Actually, that phrase isn't in the Bible. Benjamin Franklin didn't invent it either, but he wrote it down in an edition of Almanack. If Americans could recite Franklin they way they can recite the Bible, George Bush would be promoting boy bands, or something similarly annoying but harmless.

[1932]

218. Significantly less than number who call themselves Christian.

"80 percent of Americans call themselves Christians, 72 percent expect the Second Coming of Christ, and 40 percent say they speak to on intimate terms at least twice a week."

Cornerl West, Democracy Matters p.147.

Although I'm suspect of the methodology of the study cited in the OP, it is still interesting that 20% of Americans do not consider themselves Christian (and that includes muslims, jews, etc) yet 43% believe in evolution.

[Bacchus39]

232. there is no contradiction

between the existence of God and evolution.

[1932]

257. That's exactly what the Catholic priest at my church says and I agree.

[immoderate]

265. Does denial exist?

--IMM

[arwalden]

222. That's Just Sad.... Truly Pathetic.

[Comadreja]

269. Another sign of collective insanity?

Rejection of the rational is a sign of mental illness.

[jsw_81]

223. More than half of Americans are idiots

Our religion-crazed nation seems to have far more in common with Iran and Saudi Arabia than with Europe. Pathetic.

[Barrett808]

225. The irony is this happens even as genomics adds mountains of data...

...to the already large pile of evidence supporting evolutionary theory.

[demo dutch]

226. Gallup??? Yeah right!!

[Zhade]

229. Man, there are some STUPID motherfuckers in this country.

Oy.

[Bacchus39]

231. do evolutionists believe in spontaneous generation of life??

a superstition that was debunked centuries ago. and you call me stupid??

[muriel_volestrangler]

235. Debunked centuries ago?

No, you're thinking of the spontaneous generation of current life. That's not part of what people now believe happened. The appearance of complex biological molecules and their development into something that can be called 'alive' is another matter, and centuries ago they wouldn't have had the faintest idea about how to think about it. DNA and RNA were only described about 50 years ago, after all. Before that, you couldn't begin to think about how life first developed.

[Bacchus39]

236. still, strict evolutionists would have to accept that life arose

spontaneously. and that the universe always existed. without any proof of course. neither of which is any more rational or "enlightened" than a belief in God.

[muriel_volestrangler]

237. No, there's no need to accept the universe always existed

and a belief in a universe that has always existed would still be more 'rational' than belief in a god that has always existed - because we have evidence that the universe exists now, while we have no evidence that any gods exist now.

For the development of life, the behaviour of organic molecules can be (and is) tested, and people are developing ideas based on the science of what we observe in the world. For a god, you just have to trust a book, or invent something yourself.

[Bacchus39]

239. the same with organic molecules

you make a leap of "faith" just like I do with regards to God. that where the physical world tends toward entropy, that for some reason, life which according to evolutionists has evolved to more comlexity is an exception to the principle of entropy.

there is no evidence that organic molecues can formulate to form a being let alone evolve just as there is no evidence of God. so why are the believers in God the stupid ones??

[0rganism]

246. Your post illustrates some common misunderstandings of evolution

For example,

> life which according to evolutionists has evolved to more comlexity

What would the basis of this claim be? How are you going about measuring this biological "complexity"? Is a platypus more or less complex than a dugong? Is a hummingbird more or less complex than an iguana? Really, the theory of evolution says NOTHING like what you just claimed, only that species arise and diverge from common ancestors as allele frequencies change over time. The end result may actually be simpler, if one considers, e.g., a functional organ to be a greater indication of complexity than a vestigial one. In any case, I have yet to see any proponents of a complexity-based critique propose a workable measurement system to illustrate the point empirically.

> an exception to the principle of entropy

Hardly. Even if we could somehow extract a meaningful quantitative analysis of biological "complexity", any application of Newton's 2nd law thereto would have to define the boundaries of the closed system it considers for the purpose of entropy measurement. Any such system which fails to include the energy input from the sun (i.e., the basis of food supply for the world) would be inadequate. Are you prepared to contend that biological evolution alone generates sufficient "complexity" to outweigh solar entropy?

> there is no evidence that organic molecues can formulate to form a being

Are you concerned with evolution or abiogenesis? The two are often conflated. Evolution makes no claim about the initial origins of organic molecules or even recombinant DNA -- in fact, Darwin wrote "Origin of Species" without knowledge of the genetic experiments carried out by his contemporary, Gregor Mendel. So please take that objection off the table, and what are you left with?

> why are the believers in God the stupid ones?

A belief in the divine and supernatural is not mutually exclusive of a belief in evolution, as shown by those who answered in the "guided evolution" response category. However, some believers choose to criticize blindly that which they have never bothered to examine honestly, and that, I think, is why some here are calling them stupid. IMHO, "misinformed" and "willfully ignorant" would be more to the point, as many of the religious are not stupid in the way I would typically apply it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

252. There is growing evidence

and promising lines of enquiry; where religion has had several thousand years of attempts to work out how life started, and has got nowhere.

Here's an example: http://www.bioteach.ubc.ca/Biodiversity/origin/index.html

You had a nice try, by the way, of trying to slip a claim of "no evidence for evolution" into your sentence for "no evidence of molecules forming life", but I don't want to let that slip by. There is tons of evidence for evolution.

You either don't understand entropy at all, or have chosen to ignore the most basic facts about it, in the hope that other people don't understand it and that you'll be able to get away with mischaracterising it. There is energy input to the Earth from the Sun; therefore the Earth can become more complex. There's no 'leap' or exception involved in this; entropy increases for closed systems. There was also significant energy in the heat and radioactivity of Earth after it formed; this energy has also been available to drive the processes of life.

[NoodleyAppendage]

243. Hmm...I seem to remember something about a 17th century bottle w/ flies.

What's stupid is your ignorance of scientific advancement since the time of Francesco Redi.

Read and learn:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/AB/BC/Spontaneous_Generation.html

JB

[Bacchus39]

244. so is that what evolutionists believe??

that life arose spontaneously??

what is stupid is you failed to comprehend what I was asking.

[NoodleyAppendage]

250. No...that is NOT what evolutionist believe.

Here's one to blow your mind --- research the theory of panspermia. This is one of many theories on how life took hold on Earth.

What are you going to do when we discover evidence of life off of Earth? Say on Mars or one of Jupiter's moons? How would that fit into Biblical theory of creationism???

JB

[DrunkenMaster]

263. well, they sure as shite don't believe

that life was created by an old white guy in a bathrobe and slippers.

Unless that guy is Charles Bukowski.

[DrunkenMaster]

264. what do you think life is, exactly???

Life is an electro-chemical process that occurs within the boundaries of physics and biology, it isn't some goofy metaphysical abstraction.

[Marie26]

233. Why are we so stupid?

No real post here, just that. I don't know why Reps. think we need to teach creationism in the schools when most Americans believe it anyway.

[nomo]

234. But compared to other countries?

here's a good chart:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_comp.htm

[PBass]

249. This part really bothers me:

"Only 12% back evolution and say "God had no part."

Excuse me? Some people can't believe in God AND recognize evolution as a scientific fact?

I don't like the way this was 'framed'.

Anyway, just because a belief is popular, doesn't make it true.

[Clara T]

254. Biased? Gallup Jr. "is a devout evangelical Christian."

Weblog: Does the Gallup Poll Have an Evangelical Bias?

A full-page ad in Tuesday's New York Times questions the truth of a Gallup poll that showed George W. Bush in the lead by 14 points. The ad, by MoveOn.org, accused Gallup of being way off-base, compared to other polls, which averaged only a three-point Bush lead.

"This isn't the first time the prestigious Gallup survey has been out on a limb with pro-Bush findings," according to the ad. Gallup predicts that more Republicans will vote in November than Democrats. Exit polls show more Democrats will vote, says MoveOn, and George Gallup Jr., son of the poll's founder, refuses to fix his faulty methodology. "What's going on here?" asks MoveOn.

Well, you see, Gallup knows the influence its polls wield, MoveOn says. If the public perceives one candidate to be winning, more voters will side with the winning candidate. Journalists cover the polls, pundits comment on them, and the public is fooled into thinking Bush will win. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. But why does Gallup want Bush to win?

MoveOn suggests it's all because Gallup Jr. "is a devout evangelical Christian." Gasp!

Gallup "has been quoted as calling his polling 'a kind of ministry.' And a few months ago, he said 'the most profound purpose of polls is to see how people are responding to God,'" the ad says. "We thought the purpose is to faithfully and factually report public opinion."

Never mind that nearly any job a Christian performs can be considered "a kind of ministry," and never mind that Gallup is now retired and not conducting polls. Forget that Gallup heads a separate non profit, and he uses it, not political polling, to learn "how people are responding to God." MoveOn tries to discredit Gallup simply by alleging sinister ties to evangelical Christianity.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/139/31.0.html

[WhiteTara]

255. the end of public education and the beginning

of the madrassas is here.

[Betty]

261. it seems we AREN'T evolving

if there are this many idiots amongst the population. More fuel for the inevitable deline of the USA. There's no other outcome when you have this much ignorance in the country.

[NMMNG]

267. People wonder why America is falling behind in education?

Because so many are willingly turning off their own brains, and stunting those of their children, with this sort of crap. :eyes:

[shadowknows69]

268. Ok, you know what?

WHO FREAKING CARES HOW WE GOT HERE. Does it really matter. We have some very pressing things in our present time I would think people would want to deal with. Our origins aren't going to matter much if we're not around to debate them. World peace and environmental stability first and then philosophical discussion.

[Comadreja]

273. Hate to tell you this, but

The same idiots who believe God put us here think that God is about to burn the place down and so don't care much about the Earth. The real rapture Republicans want to see Armaggedon sooner than later, and salivate at the thought of a thermonuclear holocaust. And this is the nation that has its finger on the button.

[shadowknows69]

280. I know all to well

used to be one. It's quite the mindset to live in let me tell you.

[young_at_heart]

270. What is the reaction of the Bush administration?

One can only wonder how they will use this.

[timtom]

274. I've just never understood what conflict there is.

Something I must've picked up when I was learning about the Baha'i' faith.

[SoulDrift]

281. That's way too nuanced. :)

Something about all paths leading to the same destination.. yeah, that would never fly.

[timtom]

283. Just for fun...

a few thoughts.

seeker of truth
follow no path
all paths lead there
truth is here
e e cummings

The Baha'i concept I was looking for was their mandate on the agreement of religion and science. Whatever that may mean.

But my basic thought on creationism vs. evolution is, So What?

What it turns out to be is a divisive point to separate people, much as Prots vs. Papists in Ireland. The REAL issue is not who is right, but rather, keep your eyes on those things which matter:

Mercy, justice, and forgiveness.

I have many points of departure with my fellow DUers, but that finally is not why I come here. I come here to get my news from some of the most informed people in America today. I no longer read the newspaper, I no longer watch television. I listen to Randi on my drive back from work each day. I listen to Malloy when he fills in for Randi. I disagree with her on some points and I disagree with Mike Malloy on almost no point. I'd frankly rather listen to him each night if I could.

But we here at DU are agreed on one thing: Get these m*******rs out of the white house and congress. Get the F***K out of Iraq and keep our d***skinners off Iran. The rest is so much puff and not enough to divide us.

I understand the attempts at generating a theocracy. That is real. (One of the reasons I never became a Baha'i, by the way.)

Ultimately, I don't care who wins. I will never capitulate to evil and ignorance. I will die defiantly.

I could ramble on for hours. And everyone at my workplace is sick of it. But some are starting to wake up to the terrible hoax that has been perpetrated on their country.

[barb162]

275. things like this will lead to the downfall of western civilization

science and the scientific method v. hocus pocus

[True_Blue]

276. Have they ever explained how a man and a woman with 2 sons

can populate the entire world?

[ruggerson]

278. Heathen! n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

282. (psst - cloning.) And the bible forgets to mention any women for

8 -10 generations.

[Bigmack]

285. I think it was....

... one of them there "Brokeback Mountain" things!

Maybe it really WAS Adam and Steve!

[madmark]

277. these are the same people that reelected the incompetent in 2004

[appleannie1]

284. I cannot understand why

both theories cannot be intermixed. The Bible says God created man after His own image. Just what does God look like? Could He possibly be an apelike figure? No one knows. God says he created the earth etc. in 7 days. Just how long is a Biblical day? It certainly is not 24 hours. The 24 hour thing evolved through man noting how long it took the earth to circle the sun. Before there was a sun or an earth, what was the measure used? As for the big bang theory, all that it says in the Bible is that God created the universe. It does not say how. Could it have been a huge explosion? So it could be that science is just proving what God said.