Mississippi Lawmakers Jump into the National Fray.

[Maddy McCall]

Abortion debate rages in the state capitol; house allows abortion ban, except in rape/incest cases:

snip/

"If your father raped your sister, would you want her to carry that baby to term?" said Rep. Erik Fleming, D-Clinton. "If your uncle raped your sister, would you want her to carry that baby to term?"

Rep. Warner McBride, D-Courtland, pointed toward the teenage girls paging in the Mississippi House the day of the debate. He said if one of them should become pregnant because or rape or incest, "I don't think it is the place of the state of Mississippi" to tell them what to do about the pregnancy." "I think that is between them and their Lord," said McBride, who, like Fleming, voted for the final version of the bill.

Rep. Joey Fillingane, R-Sumrall, said he believes life begins at conception and it's wrong to allow abortion even in cases of rape or incest."The product of that union is not of a criminal," Fillingane said. "The product is of God."

The House voted 62-56 to allow abortions in cases of rape or incest. The vote on the overall bill was 94-25.

snip/

"I hate abortion, like everybody else," said Sen. Gloria Williamson, D-Philadelphia. "But I sure would regret going back to the 'good ole days' when I was teenager and women used coat hangers (for abortions) and mutilated their uteruses." Williamson said wealthy or middle-class Mississippi women could afford to travel out of state for abortions if the procedures were tightly restricted here and the poor women "will take matters into their own hands."

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Abortion statistics, Mississippi:

2004 3,493
2003 3,753
2002 3,605
2001 3,566
2000 3,758
1999 3,878
1998 3,955
1997 4,325
1996 4,206
1995 3,563
1994 3,979

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/state/14021517.htm

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My opinion: I've worked with some women representatives in the Mississippi House, preparing pro-women legislation with them. There are some great women there who do not agree with this legislation. Honestly, though, I'm amazed that even 25 legislators voted against outlawing abortion.

[Maddy McCall]

1. Comments from a pro-choice Mississippian and an abortion provider:

Adrianne Lucke, 63, of Clinton said she would support an abortion ban only if the state would take care of those children until they turned 18.

"Nobody has the right to tell me what to do or not to do with my body," she said. "You can't legislate morality, no matter how much the state of Mississippi might want to."

Susan Hill, president of the North Carolina-based National Women's Health Organization, is confident that the proposed law will be overturned in court.

Her company owns the only abortion clinic in Mississippi and four others in four states. The Jackson clinic performs between 3,500 and 4,000 abortions per year, Hill said.

She said Mississippi is by far the most hostile to abortion services. The state already has some of the strictest abortion laws in the nation.

"It's not unexpected. We've been waiting for it," Hill said. "We knew when we opened the clinic in Jackson 10 years ago that if there was any chance of banning abortions, it would happen first in Mississippi."

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/NEWS010504/603050321/1001/NEWS

[rodeodance]

2. another state goes wild--suspose i should be content that they allowed

for rape and incent--but i am not. just more chopping away day by day.

[ConcernedCanuk]

3. I'm not in favor of abortion, BUT

.
.
.

I think that the issue is no business of the government/state.

It should be between the person carrying the child/fetus, their physician and possibly their religious councilor.

It is the WOMEN that have to carry the child, and are ultimately responsible to take care of it for a decade or more.

MEN should have no input on this - friggen forget that male thing about having "offspring"

This is a womans choice, and ONLY women should be involved in any debate here . . .

It's their bodies/lives at stake . . .

That's my Canuk Opinion anyhoo . . .

[LiberalPartisan]

4. If the don't make provisions for incest

Then MS population growth will come to a screeching halt.

[Maddy McCall]

6. As a Mississippian, my response to your post...

:rofl: :rofl:

I'm a native Texan, and that's bad when you beg off of being a Mississippian by stating that you're a Texan.

:hi:

[Behind the Aegis]

5. Don't tell her...but my mom was right!

My mom says: "There is no 'black/white,' 'gay/straight,' 'Christian/Jew,' there is only 'male/female!'" Basically, when we can see women as equals, everything else will start to fall into place.

As persecuted as the Jews are, as persecuted as gays are, as persecuted as Blacks are, none of them are as persecuted, historically and constantly, as women are! Women are seen as chattel, like African-Americans and Blacks were (and some still think that way).

To suggest that a Black person be treated as a slave, would be met with revulsion, by both left and right (in most cases). To suggest that a Jewish person is controlling the world, would be met with revulsion, by both left (in most cases) and right (in most cases). To suggest that a gay person is unnatural, would be met with revulsion, by both left and right (rarely). But, to suggest women should control their own bodies, be "forthright," or decide to choose her own path, is met with 'religious morality,' claims of superiority, and condescension.

We, as a nation, still have a group that we try to control...women! Men and women are equally culpable in this national disgrace. IF we are to be a truly free society, then, women must be free to have choice! They must have the right to care for their body as they see fit. This includes access to medical care, access to terminate pregnancy, and access to birth control. It also includes their right to be equal with men, in pay, in responsibilities, and in freedom!

[Maddy McCall]

7. Lovely post...wish I could nominate it.

Everyone should read it...especially the sometimes-misogynists who frequent DU.

:applause: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Thank you.

I come by feminism honestly, I was raised (reared, for those grammar queens) by one.

Oddly enough, my being gay helped me even more. Although I am a guy, I was often teased, harassed, even attacked, for being "too feminine." So I don't wave my dick all around, and I talk with my hands, and my voice is not a "Barry White baritone," I am still happy to be a man. However, I don't see it as an insult when people think I am female (on the phone), or 'know' I am gay because I am not "man enough." Being labeled a "woman" is not an insult to me. Some of the most powerful people in history are women, but, because of misogyny, most don't know that fact.

"Behind every great man, is a woman..." because without her, his drunk, horny ass would fall to the ground! :)

[Maddy McCall]

9. If you ever do venture into Mississippi...

I owe you a beer. :toast:

You sound like a very interesting person, and I'd love to hear more about your mom. :D

[NuttyFluffers]

23. this is a noted sociological phenomenon: constriction of women rights

it tends to be more noticeable and prevelent in strongly patriarchal societies. whenever a group finds themselves feeling pressure, oppressed, or under attack, either by a foreign power or the rapid changes of modernity (in either physical tech, social tech, or world view) there's a strong component that become reactionary and seek to rationalize their world through control of the weaker among them. this usually shows itself in the control of women, their bodies, behavior, upbringing, etc. it also tends to show itself among children, especially daughters (got them 2 strikes: young AND female). so, in response to a sense of losing control from a world changing faster than they can handle the elites start crafting all these new and nonsensical laws.

in one of my religious classes focused on the maccabees the teacher wanted us to note how drastic all these new rules against women to restric their behavior, in the guise of cleanliness and purity, started to show up. he also wanted us to note how this became a pattern during different parts of jewish history (for future classes which i didn't take, but had some significant knowledge of, like babylonian, assyrian, etc. oppression and during stages of the diaspora). later it showed itself in my studies of india, china, japan, most of europe, middle east, and africa, etc. it was a fascinating human pattern.

apparently when our inner troglodyte gets scared they start closing ranks and keeping outrageous restrictions on their women and children. might be a function of trying to keep their genes alive or something, to go beyond a cultural perspective to a biological one. who knows, whatever it is, it's a notable pattern that those who once had power and then feel that they lost/losing it feel required to use/abuse what little power they have left on anyone else they can control. fascinating, but incredibly sad bit of human history.

[Maddy McCall]

10. Demand in MIssissippi Spikes for Planned Parenthood Services

While the Mississippi Legislature moves to ban abortion and the nation renews its focus on the politics of reproduction, the state's lone Planned Parenthood office is looking to expand its tiny footprint in the state. Hattiesburg's Planned Parenthood Express center does not provide abortions - only one clinic in the state, the Jackson Women's Health Organization, does that.

But since Hurricane Katrina struck and the University of Southern Mississippi reopened in the fall, demand for the center's birth control, pregnancy testing and morning-after pill services have risen sharply, Planned Parenthood says.

"We have almost 500 clients now," said Autumn Pennington, 28, coordinator of the center who opened its doors alone in August 2004. "Before Aug. 29, we had something like 250."

snip/

Pennington said she is often taken aback by young people's lack of basic knowledge of reproduction when she leads occasional workshops at area after-school programs, which she declined to identify. "Sex ed in Mississippi's public schools is practically nonexistent," she said. "I spoke to a group of kids yesterday, aged 12-18 ... about the ins and outs of reproduction, and they didn't know how any of that happened."

Much, much more here:
http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/NEWS01/603050302/1002

[Devlzown]

11. That is a fucked up piece of legislation.

They outlaw abortion and at the same time they get to look like they care about women because they're making an exception in the case of rape or incest. Well it doesn't take a genius to figure out what the fundies will do to close up that loophole. They'll pass a law that says you have to report the rape or incest that took place to the police or you can't get your abortion. That means someone gets arrested, a messy public trial, and public humiliation. This shit has already gone too far. If the SC decides to leave it all up to the states, I really hate to think what the ladies in this country are in for.

[Maddy McCall]

12. Hey!

I remember you from a long time ago. I thought about you during Katrina. How are you doing? Did your home suffer damage?

We are so sad about the damage--Biloxi and Gulfport was one of our weekend getaway places, and we fell in love with the cities.

:hi:

Re: your post... I agree. You can bet that that will be the case---that women will have to report. It reminds me of Puritan justice: when a woman was giving birth, her child would be considered illegitimate and she a pariah unless she named the father while giving birth, before the baby was pushed out.

[Devlzown]

13. Hey back!

Good to hear from you. My house wasn't damaged, I just lost some trees. I was lucky as hell! For about a month after the storm people would ask each other, "been ta da beach yet?" Each of us took his time going down there, trying to figure out what was here. It'll never be anything like it was, but we're starting to accept that. In a way, we're better off than than New Orleans. The tidal surge came in and knocked our structures down and then carried a lot of it back out to sea. In New Orleans they have God knows how many homes that are gonna have to be demolished and then carried off somewhere. That is gonna take years. Oh well, I've rattled on enough. Nice talking to you.

[megatherium]

14. The only grounds for outlawing abortion is that it is murder,

and if it is murder, it is no less murder when it involves rape or incest. That gives away the game here: the motivation is not to protect human life, but instead to control womens' bodies.

[Greylyn58]

15. That one statement from Rep. Fillingane

is one of the most disgusting I've ever seen in connection with banning abortion. :grr: :grr:

Rep. Joey Fillingane, R-Sumrall, said he believes life begins at conception and it's wrong to allow abortion even in cases of rape or incest....

"The product of that union is not of a criminal," Fillingane said. "The product is of God."

There is absolutely NOTHING Godly or God-like in the rape of a woman-whether through violence or incest. And to force a woman to carry to term a fetus begun in such a fashion is beyond the pale and shows just how little regard the makers of such a law have for women in general.

To men such as him, we are nothing short of a baby factory.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If men were able to have babies, abortion would be a sacrament!!!

[DBoon]

16. "The product is of God."

So what we have is:

- Legislators who know what is and what is not the will of God
- And believe they should create laws based on this "knowledge", rather than the constitution or common law precedent

Maybe they should call themselves a "priesthood" instead of a legislature

[GeorgeGist]

17. Just what Mississippi needs...

more unwanted children who will grow up to be unwanted adults.

[bluestateguy]

18. This exception for rape and incest is impossible to administer

What will that mean? How will it work?

Does that mean the rape has to be reported to police (many aren't)?

What standard of proof will be required to determine if the woman should be allowed a legal abortion? Is it just going to be "she said so"? Pregnancy is a time sensitive matter.

What if the DA doesn't have enough evidence to charge or prosecute someone, can the abortion proceed? Or what if the abortion already proceeded anyway? Does the woman get charged now?

What if the person charged is later found not guilty, a year after the abortion takes place? Is the woman now in trouble?

I promise you that there will also be some women who make phony rape complaints to police JUST so they can get a legal abortion to rid an unwanted pregnancy.

[progressivebydesign]

19. And then the rape victim shares custody with the rapist!

That is not fear mongering, it's a fact. The rapist can sue to be in that child's live AND can sue to keep her from giving it up for adoption. I have had it with religiously insane people. They have made me an athiest.. because there is no god on earth that would tolerate having so many stupid, bigoted, and mean, people as his followers.

[MasonJar]

20. Why would God choose to bring an incestuous infant into the

world? Why would God be so cruel? Prove it came from God, buddy. I want to see your proof. Also how would anyone be compelled to carry a baby to term is she did not want too? It is noone's business. The state should shoulder all the burden and the finances for the 18 years. That will get their attention.

[depakid]

21. The Fundies are showing their true colors

and they're coming out of the woodwork everywhere you look.

Personally- I hope they keep pushing the envelope. Not only do many Americans deserve what they're going to get, but it's high time that people start seeing the far right for what it is.

Since the DINO's on the national level have shown no interest whatsoever in making the contrast between the Democratic and Republican parties, the only alternative is to let the extremists do it themselves- and have everyone suffer the consequencs.

[KamaAina]

22. Doesn't the Mississippi Legislature have actual work to do?

Like, oh let me see, rebuilding their entire Gulf Coast? Shame on them for wasting everyone's time on this, just to throw some raw red meat to the fundies, when they should be rolling up their sleeves and getting to work on the real issue, rebuilding, the way that you (extra)ordinary citizens are.