"MPACUK (Muslim Public Affairs Committee/UK) Condemns Friday's March!"

[iverglas]

Muslim Public Affairs Committee of the UK (MPACUK) news release:

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/4/1351/103/

The Mosque leaders hadn’t organised a peaceful march, lobbying day, letter-writing protest, in fact the Mosque leaders didn’t organise anything at all. The un-elected, trustees of the Mosques showed just how out of touch they were with the community at large once again. Leaving young Muslims wanting to do something, but not knowing what to do.

In the vacuum, al Mahajaroun stepped in. It was a deliberate attempt at hijacking legitimate Muslim anger, at the Islamaphobic cartoons in some European papers.

It seemed the group served one function alone, that of "rent-a-bogeyman" to prove Muslims were "unreasonable fanatics". Just one example of how desperate they were to get onto the Media to promote their hate and demonise Muslim's further, was highlighted by the fact that when the story broke they even camped outside the BBC – tell us that isn't a deliberate ploy to get attention.

It was disgusting to see these Muslims spouting their evil, helping the cartoonists who demonised the Prophet PBUH by making non Muslims think we are all some crazed fanatics who want to “kill the infidel” and harm more people with another bombing in London. The group number no more then 50 people. But they harm two million with their Media stunts to get on the TV. ...

with link to BBC video:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_4680000/newsid_4681500/bb_wm_4681578.stm
(click to watch)

A leading UK Muslim has said those who advocated violence over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad should be prosecuted.

Muslim Public Affairs Committee chairman Asghar Bukhari said he was outraged by the behaviour of some protesters in London.

Must see reading and video for anyone who actually wants to discuss the current events intelligently and honestly.

Bukhari was interviewed on CBC Newsworld yesterday. Anything in the US mainstream media?

Even more must-see video -- interview with Die Welt and MPACUK representatives:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_4670000/newsid_4675400/bb_rm_4675436.stm

Protests have spread across the Muslim world over the publication in Europe of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Roger Koeppel from Die Welt discussed why his paper had chosen to reprint the images with Muslim leader Asghar Bukhari.

Bukhari addresses the specious Jerry Springer opera / anti-Muslim cartoons equivalency and "free speech" arguments.

"This is not about debate", says Bukhari, "this is about demonization".

I find it hard to see how anyone could see such editorial commentary, in the present political context in Europe, as anything other than that.

And I find it hard to see how anyone familiar with the process used by the fascist/racist right wing in Europe to demonize Jews in the last century could fail to recognize this "satire" of Muslims and Islam for what it is.

[Behind the Aegis]

1. Why?

The march in Britian was not violent (to my knowledge). Sure, some of the signs were tacky, but thems the breaks. They should have the right to protest.

[iverglas]

2. why what?

Did you, like, read or watch anything linked to in my post?


(edited; the header wasn't supposed to say "what what?")

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Fer sure...like I totally did.

I understand the committee's being upset with the radicals pictured and the 'hijacking' of legitimate anger. However, the march was peaceful and well within their right. When I saw the pics, I dismissed them as the radicals that they are.

[iverglas]

4. well, whatever

I believe Bukhari called for anyone who had violated the law to be prosecuted. Whether anything done exceeded what anyone has a right to do, under the relevant law, is not likely something either you or I knows.

I don't mind kicking the thread pointlessly. I'm kind of hoping that some of the people who have been bleating about free speech hereabouts in the last few days will step up to the plate and address the real issue, that being the vilification of the Muslim populations in Europe by the right wing and its media mouthpieces.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Many (most?) people think what they said wasn't within their rights

because they were inciting violence. It's the kind of thing Abu Hamza al-Masri is on trial for. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4602466.stm

There's controversy over the police actions - they say they recorded it all on video, and are considering charges. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4684474.stm However, if they had arrested people as soon as they saw the placards, then the incitement wouldn't have been seen on the news - which might have prevented the problem. The question is whether the pictures of the placards will have given anyone encouragement to do something violent. To you and me, they may be radicals we can dismiss - there might be some impressionable young Muslim who now thinks he has the support of many Muslims for violence.

[CJCRANE]

7. They scored an own goal

because freepers and racists all over the world have now seen those placards and will be more likely to attack muslims.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. The ones who had those placards on Friday are looking for trouble

They praised the 9/11 hijackers as the "magnificent 19". They're the extremists who believe in violent struggle.

[CJCRANE]

11. Apparently there's only 50 people

in that organisation but the backlash will hit 1000's of ordinary muslims.

Those guys are complete idiots, I guess the police tolerate them because at least they know who they are.

[Karenina]

28. Go look at the BBC video

if you haven't already. IMHO, Two important points got short shrift. This frame of "Muslims vs free speech" has the potential of creating an atmosphere where EVERY MUSLIM or anyone mistaken as such will be viewed as one of those Äuslanders trying to take OUR rights away. Recall what happened to the Sikh in Arizona after 911 (among others). It's about the POWER to demonize

The next is the "responsibility" of "moderate Muslims." The article makes a GREAT POINT about the hijacking of perception by a group of 50. Islam is very de-centralized in its organization as is Judaism.
Therefore high-profile leaders of the faithful are few and far between. Those that DO speak out are not deemed worthy of major media coverage unless they contribute to the spin the media want to project on the big screen.

Iverglas, :yourock:

[iverglas]

29. ah shucks

I was just lyin' there on the couch, soakin' up some mainstream media ... when along came that Bukhari guy, talkin' smart.

Fortunately, the mainstream media where I'm at tends to tell it slightly more like it is than the mainstream media where most people here are at.

Sadly, an awful lot of people seem to be prepared to drink their mainstream media's elixir when it comes to some stuff than they'd ever admit to when it comes to other stuff.

[CJCRANE]

5. This guy Asghar Bukhari is very good -

I hope we see more of him.

[iverglas]

8. isn't he?

It's a pleasure, and unfortunately too often necessary, to listen to an intelligent, articulate person state the obvious.

I went looking for the site after seeing him on the CBC.

CNN seems to have quoted his "thugs" statement, but not bothered reporting what he (and other "moderate Muslims") have said about the editorial material itself.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0002/20060204/1337264672.htm&ewp=ewp_news_0206furious_syrians

I might mention that the MPACUK site contains offensive materials, which, as far as I could tell, are posted by individuals in discussion forums that are not adequately moderated.

[AGENDA21]

10. This is an interesting thread,on the forum.

MPACUK speaks about Friday's March! (Right or Wrong?)

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=6499

[iverglas]

30. how did you do that?

I registered, I messed around with the log-in system, I still am denied access to that thread. Any hints?

The forum is worth a browse for anyone tempted to view Muslims as a single amoeba-like entity, in any event.

This one's mildly instructive:
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=5189

... what starts out as condemnation of abuses of women by some people in some places ends up in a squabble about who has said what about Pakistan and why ...

It's the same the whole cyberworld over. ;)

[Karenina]

32. Why Don't MODERATES speak out?

They DO, the press ignores as do many on this board. Kicking this once more from the back, dropped-like-a-stone pages. :kick:

[rinsd]

12. Oh the irony....

What kills me is people here constantly bringing up the Nazi caricature references of the Jews in the 20's and 30's considering what is published everyday in this time period in large circulation arab press. (hint - its hard to tell the difference between the two)

[iverglas]

16. another hint

... considering what is published everyday in this time period in large circulation arab press.

This thread is about the depiction of Muslims in the European press.

If you want to start one about the depiction of Jews in the Arab press, feel free.

If you want to say that the hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Europe who suffer the daily bigotry validated and exacerbated by editorial materials like these, and the resultant discrimination and harassment and worse, are somehow responsible for what goes on in the Arab press ... well, you might have a point. So far, I'm not seeing one.

[rinsd]

26. My comment...

was on the comparison of these cartoons to what Jews faced with the Nazis in the 20's and 30's. It is indeed ironic considering the arab press published pretty much the same thing.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. What are you trying to say? (n/t)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. What has Israel got to do with this?

Are you claiming that Israel funds violent Muslim organisations?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. Do you mean your question in post #13 is irrational?

Because my question in post #19 is basically your question from #13, but reworded to be less ambiguous.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

15. I'm not sure what you mean - are you saying that Israel

is behind MPACUK?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

23. I find the loud silence here exceedingly interesting

There are links to information, in my opening post, about genuine, non-fundamentalist, non-fanatical Muslim objection to materials like the editorial cartoons about which so much has been said hereabouts lately.

There is an articulate Muslim voice condemning both the violent action claimed, by those taking it, to be a response to that material and the material itself and the political climate in which it is regarded as legitimate comment.

There's a point of view expressed that a lot of people could benefit from hearing, that informs the discourse by bringing a perspective that is being disregarded in most of the media attention to the current situation.

And yet pretty much nobody seems to be interested in learning it, or at least in saying anything about it, anyhow.

So much more fun to join the chorus of condemnation of all of "those people" who just don't get freedom of speech, while remaining wilfully blind to the obvious motivations of all the people using their freedom of speech to vilify vulnerable minorities.

Ah, "liberals". Gotta love 'em. I seldom do.

[Taxloss]

24. What exactly should we be saying?

Please let me know.

[wordpix2]

25. about some comments offensive to Jews and Israelis on this thread

I understand that many Muslims don't condone the violence spreading throughout Europe and the ME re: the cartoons, just as I don't condone the violence. I also understand the that many Muslims are offended by the cartoon.

In the US and western nations, there are nonviolent ways to protest within the systems of our government and society. We are free to protest against BushCo's illegal wiretaps, torture, the Plame outing, fraudulent information leading us to war--- and we are free to organize against it. Muslims are free to protest a cartoon and whatever deeper issues they have in the same way.

What I don't understand is people who blame all ME problems or ME-European soured relations as "Israel's fault." That is hugely simplistic, false, and it's called SCAPEGOATING. Muslims don't want to be scapegoated in Europe and I'm with them on that. But scapegoating Jews gave us Hitler and the Third Reich and we don't need that, either. Those who continue to scapegoat Israel should read some history and start getting the facts. Israel was conceived in genocide and 6 million Jewish deaths.

[Karenina]

27. I missed this thread!

Kick for anyone else looking for sanity. :kick:

[DemExpat]

31. I watched it

And very much welcome his condemnation of all of the violence and of the London signs, and think that many more such moderate Muslim voices should be heard all over Europe.

But I still disagree with his saying the cartoons demonize ALL Muslims and that this is not a free speech issue but demonization.

I believe that many political/cultural/religious cartoons and satires can be deeply offensive to some, that is what caricatures are in fact, and that religious feelings and laws should not be specially protected here in our secular world.

I personally see the cartoons as a statement of how some in the West are indeed fearful (fear breeds hatred) of terrorism, violence carried out in the name of Islam, and encroaching self-censorship of artists, writers and journalists in Europe.
Also perhaps seeing the hijacking of what may very well be a peaceful religion (all major religions preach peace) by violent, extremist factions who do commit murder in the name of their God and Prophet, and choosing to portray the issue in a well-established form of political protest, statement, by using caricatures, and cartoons.

Perhaps modern Muslim culture has had little exposure to this manner of (internal) criticism and ridicule, and thus can only see it as pure demonization?

I see it no different than cartoons posted here on DU of fundy Christians supporting the war with its unspeakable horrors in Iraq with Jesus at the helm, committing murder in the name of Jesus.

And expecting/demanding that the world is all respectful and nice is just not going to happen - a coping manner will have to be developed (or explained, taught) by those taking such offense IMHO, and much more vigorous dialogue sought between Muslim minorities and the general populations.

DemEx