Future charges possible, Dems warn White House

[Ernesto]

Statute of limitations extends past 2008, congressman says

Washington -- House Democrats warned President Bush, top leaders of his administration and officials of the National Security Agency on Friday that if the political climate changes they could face criminal prosecution for ordering and carrying out warrantless domestic eavesdropping.

"These are clearly crimes and the statute of limitations extends beyond this president's term,'' which will end in January 2009, said Rep. Jerry Nadler D-N.Y., at an ad hoc hearing called by House Judiciary Committee's Democrats to assail Bush's contention that his order for warrantless domestic wiretaps on American citizens is legal.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/01/21/MNGNEGQPIR1.DTL

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Hear, hear!! I second that.

[NYC]

2. Good for Nadler.

I'm tired of Bush committing crimes against the People of the United States.

[EVDebs]

21. The Iraq War Joint resolution was unconstitutional !

and Gore's case against Bush, as WaPost's David Broder shows, is clear "...Gore has done a service by laying out the case as clearly and copiously as he has done. His overall charge is that Bush has systematically broken the laws and bent the Constitution by his actions in the areas of national security and domestic anti-terrorism."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/18/AR2006011801874.html

The War Powers Act of 1973 is what limits the imperial president's powers, but as yet, despite being embedded within the 'Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2382761&mesg_id=2382761

The fact is that Congress vested Bush with powers 'as he determines' unconstitutionally, since the War Powers Act of 1973 shows that the facts of the US involvment must be clear and the circumstances and situations prompting the measure must by face value be TRUTHFUL !

In the case of the resolution, Congress allows Bush to determine what is truthful, 'as he determines', not passing the common law's "rational man" test !

[wordpix2]

33. Congress should have known better than to assume * would be truthful

"The fact is that Congress vested Bush with powers 'as he determines' unconstitutionally, since the War Powers Act of 1973 shows that the facts of the US involvment must be clear and the circumstances and situations prompting the measure must by face value be TRUTHFUL !

In the case of the resolution, Congress allows Bush to determine what is truthful, 'as he determines', not passing the common law's "rational man" test ! "

[EVDebs]

38. The truth is out there...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is in prison

Henry David Thoreau

[Tiggeroshii]

51. Yeah, Mulder know's what he's talking about

He'll unveil these crooks what they are if it takes him several beyond series movies to do so!

[rodeodance]

58. very little passes the "rational man" test ! " in the bushie team

[Zhade]

63. Should have? They DID.

I STILL don't forgive those who voted for this war crime. Never will, unless they become truly repentant and do something to make up for it.

Then I MIGHT consider forgiving them for failing in their basic duty of representing their constituents, the majority of whom did not want this war at any point.

[soothsayer]

3. Hey, great! Let's take back the gov't in this year's elections, and

crucify the anti-American bastards

[Bush_MUST_Go]

4. What good is this "threat" IF the neocons are still counting the votes? em

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. ... and if "the loyal opposition" won't question the fraudulent results n/

[wordpix2]

34. THIS time, if the votes are close, we had better be ready with our legal

international observers

[Ernesto]

50. Hi BMG & welcome...........

The good news is that when ALL ('06 elections) house seats are up for grabs, vote count fraud will be a very hard to pull off (I hope).

[loudsue]

59. Nope. Vote count fraud is VERY easy to pull off....just a few keystrokes.

This issue is very deep, very hackable, and very serious. There are no good-news loopholes for Dems when republicans program the cards and the central tabulators. That's why getting rid of these monstrosities is imperative...we can't have black boxes running this country any longer. Paper ballots and open code are the ONLY way to go.

:kick::kick::kick:

[f-bush]

5. Go get the bushbot, neocons and fundies

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Well, you KNOW the Puggies don't believe in climate change.

Including political climate change.

[Selteri]

9. I don't think they have much belief in relaity either of late though

I mean, listen to them talk about morality and personal responsability...

then listen to them shift blame, attack their critics, defend torture and invading a soverign country and everything else they do.

[thefool_wa]

12. BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAA! (nt)

[mom cat]

7. Now we have to be sure to defeat Alito. This weekend is crucial.

Send more faxes and e-mails.

[tabasco]

8. Rule of law !

The republican criminals WILL be brought to justice for their crimes against the People.

How they howled "rule of law" when Clinton got a blowjob!

They will taste the rule of law when the People retake this Nation from the robber barons.

[PerceptionManagement]

10. The administration seems fearless in it's destruction of Democracy.

Anything to help these guys squirm.

[wordpix2]

35. yeah, they keep acting as if it's "business as usual"-how weird is that?

[thefool_wa]

11. OHHHHH YEAH!

I love it. If we can vote a Dem in in 2K8 (if they don't fix the election that is) then ol' Bushy doesn't have the comfort of a pardon on his side.

It gives me chills thinking about it.

[pinniped]

13. Pretty amazing how most repukes will let their emperor...

get away with anything and everything.

Anything asshole does can be simply explained away and justified in their little minds.

[PSPS]

14. Any sign of change in "political climate" = pardons for everyone

[struggle4progress]

16. Not sure pre-prosecution pardons would withstand challenge

[PSPS]

26. I think it does

I seem to recall Ford's pardons using the phrase, "have or may have committed."

[struggle4progress]

28. Still unsure whether it would survive a challenge

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. They would.

Witness http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/29/reviews/iran-pardon.html">Caspar Weinberger.

[rodeodance]

15. nominate this (one of few articles in the press)

[rodeodance]

17. be sure to thank the reporter--email address below.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/21/MNGNEGQPIR1.DTL&feed=rss.news

E-mail Edward Epstein at [e-mail].

San Francisco Chronicle
Future charges possible, Dems warn White House

Statute of limitations extends past 2008, congressman says

[rodeodance]

18. "the White House has begun a campaign to woo public opinion."

.....In preparation for that testimony, the White House has begun a campaign to woo public opinion.

On Wednesday, Bush will visit the top-secret National Security Agency headquarters at Ford Meade, Md., just outside Washington.

Gonzales is scheduled to give a speech about the program Tuesday. Deputy national intelligence director Mike Hayden, who headed the security agency when Bush started the program in October 2001, is scheduled to speak Monday at the National Press Club.

"We are stepping up our efforts to educate the American people," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

[rodeodance]

19. "We are stepping up our efforts to educate the American people," Scott.

[Zhade]

64. I think he meant 'indoctrinate'.

NT!

[LizW]

20. LOL.

Oh, I'm sure having Gonzalez and Hayden speak on the subject will help.

More outrageous lies coming down the pike.

:eyes:

[wordpix2]

36. I think this is like their last stand. "Come and get me, I'll be ready"

[EVDebs]

22. Yes, and Rove & Co. are preparing the Rex84, Ops GardenPlot/Cablesplicer

detention camps for the 1/2 of the country that doesn't support der uber leader.

"The law is whatever Bush says it is" is their mantra.

[elehhhhna]

23. Riiiiight. Them and what army? lol

[EVDebs]

24. Dare to speak out and you get the Quaker treatment.

As the man testified to in yesterday's testimony with Rep Conyers.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html

The proper authorities will suspend the Constitution, as Ollie North set out. BTW, Justice Roberts worked under the Reagan administration passing on the constitutionality of executive orders which Rex84 is based upon; Samuel Alito worked in the DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel providing the same service to those who wished to extend presidential powers to imprison dissenters.

Enjoy.

BTW, read this from Oct 2004

Walter Cronkite Suspects Karl Rove is Behind Bin Laden Tape
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/008522.html

As with the current Chris Matthews smear campaign, the WhiteHouse is now out "...to equate opposition to George Bush with subversiveness, treason, and support for Al Qaeda."

[Aviation Pro]

53. Should read

We are stepping up our efforts to lie to the American people.

[depakid]

25. Yep. The statutue tolls until January 2009

By that time, Bush is going to be extremely unpopular- as are his various minions.

For once in his pathetic life, the man might actually be held accountable for something.

[wordpix2]

39. I want to ask BushCorp why many US contractors in Iraq have KBR ties,

KBR being a Halliburton subsidiary. And many of the contracts can't be traced to anyone who is accountable for the contract.

Dickhead and Chimpy, do you care to comment on this lack of accountability re: US contractors in Iraq, the outsourcing of our armed forces to private companies who do not coordinate with US military, and the KBR connection re: contracts in Iraq?

[HuffleClaw]

27. FINALLY, some are speaking truth to power

and its about damned time too. if they don't HAMMER them on this, this is gonna faaaade away.

[NashVegas]

57. Empty Threat

Otherwise, I doubt he'd be making it.

[Boo Boo]

29. But then, suddenly, Rep. Nadler remembered that Bush will have

stacked the Supreme Court with judges that support his "Unitary Executive" authority to do whatever the fuck he wants, and said, "Oh... Never mind."

[wordpix2]

32. thank you, Rep. Nadler, another rep with balls!! Let them know they can't

get off so easily. They are forewarned.

[Solly Mack]

37. Damn shame we have to wait for a political climate change to do

the right thing.

Those House Democrats are basically saying the "climate" now is so corrupt they can't do anything about the crimes of the President.

That some in Congress are so corrupt, so criminal - they refuse to do their job.

So we have to wait...

and to think there are people who are not bothered by that...

[wordpix2]

40. I see the Dems getting bolder. The key is stopping Scalito.

[EVDebs]

43. Alito worked in Reagan WH and may have intimate knowledge of Rex84

Operations Garden Plot and Cable Splicer, all related to arresting and detaining dissenters under a 'suspension of the Constitution' !

[wordpix2]

44. are these arrest/detain disenter ops current or under Reagan?

[EVDebs]

54. The Executive Orders are current

""Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:


EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate: the National Security Act of 1947, which allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities; the 1950 Defense Production Act, which gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy; the Act of August 29, 1916, which authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency; and the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979."

from http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/fema.html

(scroll down and you'll see the list above as I've posted it) Please take the time to read up and futher investigate Rex 84, Operations Garden Plot and Cable Splicer, and the current SCOTUS nominees biographies as listed on the WhiteHouse.gov website, just google 'whitehouse.gov john roberts' for example and you see he was passing on these executive orders during his WH years; same with Samuel Alito during his DOJ Office of Legal Counsel to the WH days, passing on constitutionality issues.

[Ian David]

65. I think the Rex 84 thing was discredited, but I could be wrong on that

I'll see what I can find

[Ian David]

66. Rex 84

Rex 84
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a plan by the United States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers of American citizens in case of massive civil unrest or national emergency. Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen periodically. From 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the "ADEX" list. (Donner, Age p. 166.)

According to scholar Diana Reynolds:

The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan), indicates that FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and agencies conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise (including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military assistance in civil defense.

The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial rule. <1>

Existence of similar earlier exercises, "Garden Plot" and "Lantern Spike" were originally revealed by alternative journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in "Garden Plot and the New Action Army", (CounterSpy, 1975). Rex 84 was mentioned during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported on by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987. As news of the exercise spread, it was amplified by networks of people pursuing more elaborate conspiracy theories. <2>

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

Okay... so:

1) Rex 84 is real
2) Rex 84 is bad

But, is Rex 84 as bad as AboveTopSecret says it is?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I'll see what else I can find.

Input from anyone else?


See also: The discussion of the article on Wikipedia.

The facts are bad enough. The feds regularly stage exercises to test their capacity to fulfill assigned tasks. The potential of a round up of targeted persons during a declared "national emergency" is a civil liberties nightmare, and we all should be aware of the potential. But these types of readiness exercises take place all the time. The fetish of Rex 84 is misplaced. What we can prove is happening now is bad enough. Conspiracism takes real problems and disempowers people trying to organize to confront them.--Cberlet 18:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rex_84

[EVDebs]

41. Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived, God is not mocked...

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he
also reap" Galatians 6:7.

This pit of vipers has a rude awakening coming...

[loudsue]

60. From your lips to God's ears.

The republicans are sowing dark forces.

:kick::kick::kick:

[SoCalDem]

42. We also need to address the whole presidential pardon issue if we ever get

control back.. presidents should NOT be able to pardon anyone IN their own administration. I think it should not be allowed for anyone convicted within the past 5 years, which would preclude them pardoning one of their own.\

Pardons should stand on their own merit and should not be political "passes".

If a crooked politician screws up that bad, he/she should not walk just because their pal signs a piece of paper.. That is too "kingly"..

Goes for all "flavors" ..repubes or dems..

[wordpix2]

45. wonder why * is visiting the NSA soon? I hope someone's got a wire on

snip:
Bush will visit the top-secret National Security Agency headquarters at Ford Meade, Md., just outside Washington.

[wordpix2]

46. K&R!

[EVDebs]

55. In order to strike fear in any/all potential whistleblowers

[TankLV]

47. Way to go Nadler! Best news I've heard in awhile.

Maybe there IS a chance for justice after all!

[xchrom]

48. good for nadler!

[Rex]

49. It is on record now.

Keep fucking up Repukes...you won't see office for 100 years after this!

[BenDavid]

52. Compared to the hell

the repugs put President Clinton through and all they got was an admission of fellatio. Bush on the other hand has in my opinion been given a free ride by the media and not brought about any true investigated reporting.

What I think the Dems should do is first.....Make sure they take control of at least one house of congress this fall. Two if possible. It is there for the taking and have got to put forth something the people can grasp on to and make them aware that by voting in a congress controlled by Democrats would be in their and the nations best interest.

What I do not want the Dems to do is start calling for impeachment. Whatever the message will be for folks to vote for a Democrat in their district or statewide for Senator will be lost and the message will be, all the dems want to do if they take control is impeach Bush....Keep the powder dry for now. Concentrate on winning the Congress back with a true Democratic message.....Impeachment and charges brought later is the best approach....

[Zambero]

56. Rigged '06 & '08 elections to keep Republicans in power?

Order up! If the GOP's smoke & mirrors brigade is looking for a compelling reason to repeat their contemptible election day and pre-election day tactics, they certainly have one now. Grabbing and retaining absolute power by any means at their disposal has always been motivation enough, but the potential for criminal prosecution if Democrats regain power? We ain't seen nothing yet!

[loudsue]

61. That's what I'm worried about, too, Zambero.

But the Dems still haven't figured out that the election machines are what's causing all the losses. I don't know what it would take to make the "get it".

:kick::kick::kick:

[Zhade]

62. Damn straight.

CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. Now THAT'S an opposition party - willing to talk about the punishment that fits this administration's many, many crimes.

One of which was the war. Let's not forget that, and prep some cells at the Hague!

[bush_is_wacko]

67. I would be really curious to know EXACTLY what the statute of limitations

is on this particular crime.

Seems like Nadler is giving up the ghost on prosecuting this before King George's term ends. I'm not sure how to take this statement. A little sad that Nadler feels it's possible these crimes will go unprosecuted until idiot is out of office.

[FogerRox]

68. Staute of limitations for FISa violations should be well after 2008

[pinkpops]

69. Nice plank for the Democratic platform