U.S. accused of spying on those who disagree with Bush policies

[sabra]

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/politics/13675006.htm

U.S. accused of spying on those who disagree with Bush policies

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

WASHINGTON - While the White House defended domestic surveillance as a safeguard against terrorism, a Florida peace activist and several Democrats in Congress accused the Bush administration on Friday of spying on Americans who disagree with President Bush's policies.

Richard Hersh, of Boca Raton, Fla., director of Truth Project Inc. of Palm Beach County, told an ad hoc panel of House Democrats that his group and others in South Florida have been infiltrated and spied upon despite having no connections to terrorists.

"Agents rummaged through the trash, snooped into e-mails, packed Web sites and listened in on phone conversations," Hersh charged. "We know that address books and activist meeting lists have disappeared."

The Truth Project gained national attention when NBC News reported last month that it was described as a "credible threat" in a database of suspicious activity compiled by the Pentagon's Talon program. The listing cited the group's gathering a year ago at a Quaker meeting house in Lake Worth, Fla., to talk about ways to counter military recruitment at high schools.

[IndianaGreen]

1. Johnson and Nixon did it!

Bush is outdoing them both!

[Toots]

16. Well hey now that settles it then. If someone before did it then what the

problem is? :shrug: Sound reasoning..........

[phoebe]

25. that's precisely how Alito will defend *. He seems keen to go on

"precedent" according to most of his answers during the recent hearings..

[EVDebs]

28. Alito worked in the Reagan WH during the Rex 84 project

He would have determined the constitutionality of a program designed to 'suspend the Constitution', if you will. That Congress lacks testicular fortitude to even ASK Mr. Alito about his views of this project, or review by FOIA any papers or documents he may have prepared on it (along with Justice Roberts, who also worked in the Reagan WH on executive orders constitutionality), says that Congress is determined to rubberstamp the detention camp programs.

Only problem is they'll end up further busting the country's budget since over half the country can't stand the fact that Bush is President for the duration.

[Cookie wookie]

35. Johnson ?

That's a new one. Any evidence?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. "packed" web sites

Oh my, they need better proofreaders.

Thanks for posting, the word is getting out.

[TroglodyteScholar]

17. I assumed...

...that "packed" was just some tech lingo that I didn't know about.

Are you saying that maybe they hacked websites?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

32. that's what he said.

I've watched it 4 times now, he said Hacked. The article has it wrong. go figure.

[Virginian]

3. I'm sure they read DU regularly.

But they probably really check in on the Free Republic to make sure their base is staying on message. In fact I think they have a poster over there on their payroll.

[0007]

11. You bet! One robot and three live ones here.....

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. You think?

BUSH SUCKS.

[mike_c]

4. spy on this, pigs....

I got yer credible threat....

:rofl:

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. I second the motion!

Hah! Add that to your files you fascist pigs! :P :rofl:

[spun_in_montana]

15. Spy on this!

File it!
(yes, a pesky musician type who just happens to work on guitars...)

[Whoa_Nelly]

23. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

That's one fine salute to dissidence you got there, mister! :toast:

[spun_in_montana]

39. I was a bit hesitant-I usually save that

pissy picture for trolls at my blogs...and thanks for the howdy!

[Cooley Hurd]

14. ...and don't turn your back on this guy in Boonton!

:rofl:

Great pic, btw.:thumbsup:

[Dulcinea]

31. Anyone who spies on me must be REALLY bored.

You get to watch me make dinner, bathe the kids, watch Nicktoons & hockey...:boring:

[rodeodance]

37. scary dude

[KoKo]

6. Good to see that reported. Americans need to know that it's "ordinary"

folks who can be spied on. For instance one of the panelists (I believe it was Bamford who wrote "Puzzle Palace: A History of Spying and the NSA"} said that the spying works in concentric circles. You start with a terror "suspect" then monitor outward to every contact they have with anyone..and after awhile you get that your Pizza Store person might be related or have a friend who has a friend who has a friend who traveled to a country on Bush's terror list and just because you called the Pizza Place to order your number is targeted all the way back to the original suspect. (I've expanded what he said to make it clearer) but that's how it works and it's frightening.

Given all the people who work in service industry today who have green cards how would one know whether they were on the NSA watch list and that any contact you have with them of friends of theirs could put you on a watch list or have an NSA officer come to your house or place of work to monitor you? Bamford also said there is no way of knowing WHAT ELSE they are doing besides the spying,either.

[flyarm]

7. TALON PROGRAM??? HMMM AS IN TALON NEWS AND GANNON??

"The Truth Project gained national attention when NBC News reported last month that it was described as a "credible threat" in a database of suspicious activity compiled by the Pentagon's Talon program. "

HMMMMMMMMMMMM....talon news...?????????

jeff gannon and talon news???

and camp gannon in iraq??

any coinsidences here?????????????????

fly

[flyarm]

8. in plain site...just remember..in plain site!! n/t

[Carni]

18. YES! I NOTICED THAT TOO eom

[SupplyConcerns]

26. Could it be like when George H.W. named everything after Barbara?

Bush 41 named his fighter planes in WWII "Barbara II" and "Barbara III". When he worked for Zapata petroleum off the coast of Cuba, and helped supply anti-Cuban rebels in cooperation with the CIA, one of their barges was named "The Barbara".

Could it be another Bush loves naming things after his lover?

[EVDebs]

29. CNN and PsyOps during the 2000 election....hint hint wink wink nod nod

www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html

[Hekate]

9. Dangerous? "The truth IS dangerous," said Richard Hersh

And he's right.

I caught most of that session -- it was impressive. Alas, I believe it was relegated to the basement again.

Hekate

[NVMojo]

10. rummaging in the trash ...such desperate measures for what??

[Rich Hunt]

33. a sense of control...

If you're a paranoid right-winger, you'll use any scrap of information you can get your hands on.

Never know what sort of damning info or potential blackmail might be found in the trash.
If you go public with your complaint, they'll claim they found this that or the other in
your trash - receipts for who knows what, discarded condoms, who knows....

My mail was stolen from right-wingers - bills, medical info and magazines - really boring, right?
I guess someone thought it might be intimidating to me or something.

[hang a left]

12. If this whole thing blows open, which I pray it does

We are gonna find out that they have been spying on everybody. They have identified the dissenters, the people that are on to them. They know what books you check out at the library, or purchase through Amazon, or if you belong to a book club at Borders. They know what websites, and blogs you read. They know your opinions from the posts you make, if you happen to be a participant in internet discussion. They have identified people that may be able to spread information to others.

They don't want people to organize, that is the real threat to the status quo. Because when the shit hits the fan here in the US ie they bomb Iran, the market crashes, or whatever our fate is to be, and make no mistake, it is coming, they will know where the "trouble spots" are.

We are in big f#^@*ing trouble here. Shit is about to hit the fan and the fan is on high people. And there is absolutely no one that can or will stop them.

shit....

I need to go lay down.

[Martin Eden]

13. Power corrupts

When the executive branch of government is allowed to operate in secrecy without judicial oversight, it will abuse that power. It's inevitable. That's why holding Bush accountable for bypassing the FISA courts and illegally wiretapping American citizens is so vitally important to maintaining the checks and balances of our constitutional government.

This shouldn't even by a left-right partisan issue. If so-called conservatives were true to their alleged principles, they would be leading the push for an independent counsel with authority to subpeona everthying related to the wiretaps that have taken place.

[Twist_U_Up]

20. this is perfectly legal.

in a dictatorship.

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. So much easier that way.

So long as Pinhead** is the DICTATOR! Hey FReakers How do you like this latest development from your friendly Fascist President? But hey, like you all are so fond of saying, if you've nothing wrong, you have nothing too fear, Right? :rofl: Just remember that your Party won't always be in power. :yoiks:

[Evergreen Emerald]

21. "credible threat" defined by whom?

In the Alice-in-Wonderland-world where evil is good and wrong is right a "credible threat" is one that does not agree with Bush and Co. How many times have they said: "if you are not with us you are against us."

Those who disagree with Bush are unpatriotic. Those who disagree with Bush are helping the enemy. Those who disagree with Bush are a "credible threat."

We are in a world of hurt here on the other side of the looking glass.

[EVDebs]

27. You've hit the nail right on the head !

The Joint Resolution giving Chimpy the war powers he has with Iraq, and is now illegally trying to import into the domestic arena, clearly circumscribe the President's war powers; in fact, the War Powers Act of 1973 itself is embedded within the Joint Resolution ! The resolution is clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL since it allows the "truth" to be determined by the President alone:

All hinges on the phrase "...as he determines to be necessary and appropriate..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2382761

This ignores the War Powers Act of 1973's requirements that the circumstances and situations clearly indicate use of US military force introduction:

"It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations."

Clearly no WMDs, clearly no ties to Al Qaida by Iraq, clearly no viable nuke program, clearly a militarily impotent country (even incapable of attacking neighbors anymore); circumstances and situation that if the truth be told posed no "imminent" threat to the US was being posed at that time. Yet PNAC and other abuses of 'inside' information being stovepiped to the President prevailed.

As long as the collective judgement of both Congress and the President are still being portrayed as jointly applied, the on-going Constitutional crisis will continue.

[sattahipdeep]

24. Google defies White House?

Last month, Microsoft Corp.'s MSN unit pulled the plug on a Chinese
blogger who discussed politically-sensitive issues. Yahoo has also
shared such data, which led to the conviction and jailing of a journalist,
and Google itself has agreed to make its search results in that country
amenable to surveillance.

"This request (for Google's data) is disturbing because it's the nose
under the camel's tent," Harper said. If we're not careful, control and
censorship of Internet data in this country "could look more like China
than we thought possible," he said.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B54C61B89-2A96-4DAD-A844-A9B994AE79C7%7D&siteid=google

The Enabling Act (March 23, 1933)

transferred legislative power to Hitler, permitting him to
decree laws, laws moreover that "may deviate from the
Constitution."

Adolf Hitler’s rise to dictator from his
appointment as chancellor was rapid. Hitler
used the Reichstag fire to create an atmosphere of crisis. Both
the judicial and legislative branches of government collapsed,
and Hitler’s decrees became law. The Decree for the
Protection of People and State (Feb. 28, 1933) suspended
guarantees of personal liberty and permitted arrest and
incarceration without trial.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=9936

[MellowOne]

30. OK, so they found us out

What now? Do we go to concentration camps?

[henslee]

34. "Shocked, I am"...Yoda

[rodeodance]

36. described as a "credible threat" ---geech!!

[rodeodance]

38. "an ad hoc panel of House Democrats"---in the basement.-plantation style

[Doctor_J]

40. WHen I think of grave threats, Quakers are the second group that come

to mind. right after the Menonites.