Bible Guide For Public Schools Gets Jewish Okay

[Thom Little]

In an effort to neutralize the growing popularity of a right-wing Bible textbook for public schools, two major Jewish organizations are backing an alternative study guide. But some liberal watchdogs warn that the alternative textbook also could lead teachers to violate the separation of church and state.

The new textbook, "The Bible and Its Influence," has been endorsed by the American Jewish Congress and the Anti-Defamation League, as well as Catholic leaders and a wide range of liberal and conservative Protestants. The ADL and the AJCongress both have condemned another textbook, "The Bible in History and Literature," used in more than 300 school districts across the country, according to its publisher.

A legislative fight over the two textbooks has erupted in Alabama, after the Democratic majority leader of the state's House of Representatives, Ken Guin, introduced a bill earlier this month that would establish an elective high-school course using the study guide backed by the two Jewish groups. Religious conservatives say that Guin's measure attempts to undermine support for "The Bible in History and Literature," already used in some Alabama schools, while liberal critics say the bill is a thinly veiled attempt to promote Bible study in public schools.

.......

In response to questions from the Forward, officials at both the AJCongress and the ADL acknowledged some problems with the textbook they endorsed and said that they preferred comparative religion courses to classes focused solely on the Bible. But, officials at both organizations said, despite these misgivings, they felt compelled to offer an alternative to "The Bible in History and Literature," which they described as a blatant attempt to push a right-wing Christian agenda in public schools.



http://www.forward.com/articles/7082

[Gatchaman]

1. Why do they need to learn about the bible in the first place?

Have they already taught them everything they need to know about math, algebra, calculus, chemistry, physics, trigonometry, geometry, geography, geology, american history, world history, english comprehension, english usage, etc?

[madeline_con]

5. They don't. At least, not at school.

The ID bunch see their efforts failing, and are still trying to score an end run around seperation.

[Vidar]

15. Rubbish--That damnable book is integral to 2000 years of

history & culture. You need knowledge of it if only to refute it. How to teach it without getting the teacher fired is a much more severe problem.

[LiberalFighter]

26. Does that mean they fail in teaching their own about the Bible?

WOW

[Xenotime]

23. they get taught mythology...

what more "religion" do they need?

[Avalux]

2. An elective comparative religion course -

other than that, the line is crossed. The bible belongs in church and in private homes, period.

[madeline_con]

6. But in this case, is there a comparison with anything?

Or just religious instruction of the Judeo-Christian variety?

[Avalux]

7. from the article - no.

It says they preferred a comparative course but instead are supporting "The Bible and Its Influence" as an alternative to "The Bible in History and Literature," which they described as a blatant attempt to push a right-wing Christian agenda in public schools.

Sad.

[stepnw1f]

3. Why are They Forcing Religion on People's Kids

And how is this not unconstitutional?

[SkiGuy]

10. because it's not mandatory

it's an elective course

[lynne]

12. Yes, an elective and the study is not about religion itself -

- but the impact that the Bible and religion had on history, art, literature, geography, etc. At least, that's the way it should be taught.

[stepnw1f]

14. Well, They Have Been Allowed in the Door

I hope it stays as an elective of comparative study, but I still think this is a bad idea. Give them an inch and whoops!

[lynne]

25. Religion has been in the school door -

- my son is in 8th grade and we were told on parents night that his world history class would include a study of major religions of the world and their contributions to history, geography, art, and literature. I really don't think you can thoroughly study history, geography and art without mention of religion and I've no problem with it.

[booksenkatz]

4. How did reps from all the other religions feel about it?

Did they ask the atheists and agnostics also? Why are people from only TWO religions consulted for a PUBLIC school curriculum?

Edited to add: assuming that you even want to devote time to this in the first place. The school day is jam packed with the basics as it is.

[DBoon]

8. So they've quit fighting about whether christianity belongs in school

and are now fighting each other about whose christianity will be taught.

This is exactly why we have separation of church and state.

[sakabatou]

9. I could see this as a college course, but in regular public school?

No.

[hootinholler]

11. Does it cover the subversion of Christianity by the Third Reich?

The course that is really needed in Public Schools is one that shows how any religion can be abused to control the masses.

-Hoot

[Ian David]

13. See also:

US Jews feel threatened by religious right

CHICAGO (Reuters) - U.S. Jewish leaders say they are increasingly worried that Christian conservatives want to turn America politically and culturally into a country that tolerates only their brand of Christianity.

"There is a feeling on all sides that something is changing," said Abraham Foxman, director of the New York-based Anti-Defamation League.

"The polls indicate a very serious thing -- that over 60 percent of the American people feel that religion and Christianity are under attack," he said on Thursday in an interview.

"Some are saying we are attacking (Christianity). This whole movement is not anti-Semitic or motivated by anti-Semitism. But sometimes unintended consequences are much more serious than intended" he added.

More:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051215/us_nm/religion_jews_dc

Resurgence Of Religious Right Among Top Concerns

"The resurgence of conservative Christianity was one of the key issues affecting American Jewry in the past year, according to a new report.

The attempt by evangelical groups to “reclaim America for Christianity” was named as “a key domestic challenge to the Jewish community” in the Anti-Defamation League’s annual top-ten list.

The increased role played by religion in the country’s public sphere was reflected elsewhere on the hate watchdog’s list, highlighting the intense public debate on America’s legally-enshrined separation of church and state.

The list points out that a special report commissioned in June supported claims of “a pernicious climate of religious intolerance” at a Colarado Air Force base and that a new Congressional petition backing the right of chaplains to use specifically Christian language proved the problem was still current."

More:
http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/world/?content_id=2333

Rev. Donald Wildmon threatens Jews who criticize the Christian right

According to one prominent Christian evangelical, support for Israel may go on the chopping block if Jewish leaders persist in publicly criticizing the religious right.

Don Wildmon, president of the evangelical American Family Association, had sharp words for the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abraham Foxman, during the December 5 broadcast of his daily radio program: "The more (Foxman) says that 'you people are destroying this country,' (the more) some people are going to begin to get fed up with this and say, 'Well, all right then. If that's the way you feel, then we just won't support Israel anymore.' "

Wildmon's comment is the latest thrust in an ongoing duel between liberal Jewish leaders and the religious right after Foxman condemned what he called a campaign "to Christianize America" in a November 3 speech at the ADL's national commission meeting. Foxman specifically mentioned reports of alleged religious coercion at the U.S. Air Force Academy and continued pressure for federal funding of faith-based initiatives as sources of concern.


More:
http://www.forward.com/articles/7059

[happyslug]

16. Here is the web site for the Book

http://www.bibleliteracy.org/Site/index2.htm

The key seems to be driven to expand student's knowledge of how the bible has been used in literature and history. Basically you can NOT Fully understand EITHER without some background in the bible.

FAQ about the Book:
http://www.bibleliteracy.org/Site/Case/index.htm

My Favorite Answer to a FAQ:
Was your textbook found to contain errors, use plagiarized material and claim urban legends to be scientific fact?

No. The report released this summer by Dr. Mark Chancey of Southern Methodist University examined another organization’s teacher guide rather than our textbook.

I wonder what the other text book was?

[Bridget Burke]

18. The Competition: National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools

(Warning--loud music!) www.bibleinschools.net/

These guys are definitely Right Wing. Check out their links page. Their book is the one critiqued by Dr Chancey, thanks to the the Texas Freedom Network:

Dr. Chancey’s report shows how the curriculum advocates a narrow sectarian perspective taught with materials plagued by shoddy research, blatant errors and discredited or poorly cited sources...

The NCBCPS curriculum goes beyond a study of the Bible as literature or a description of the importance of the Bible for beliefs and practices of religious groups. It, in fact, improperly endorses the Bible as the “Word of God.” It also attempts to persuade teachers and students to adopt views of the Bible that are common in some conservative Protestant circles but rejected by most scholars. While such views are certainly appropriate for individuals or religious groups, public schools should not present them as fact.

The curriculum almost exclusively reflects views held by certain conservative Protestant groups. The role of the Bible in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christian thought receives little attention.

The curriculum depicts the United States as a historically Christian nation. It even erroneously implies that historians generally believe that the Bible, even more than the Constitution, is the nation’s “Founding Document” .
www.tfn.org/religiousfreedom/biblecurriculum/

I'm not convinced that Bible Studies are needed in Public Schools. But, if a district is Hell-bent (Heh Heh) on adding it as an elective, the Bible Literacy guys have the better curriculum. Besides, the Religious Right thinks they are dangerous!

The National Council on Bible Curriculum, however, is now challenged by The Bible Literacy Project, who will offer a textbook-based curriculum in schools next year. Its standards are endorsed by the National Education Association, and the liberal National Association of Evangelicals. These standards were developed in part by Charles Haynes, who once worked for Americans United for Separation of Church and State and was on the advisory board of The Pluralism Project, comprised also of people like Wicca priestess Margot Adler. Haynes and others involved with the project are "communitarians", who believe individual needs and rights are secondary to the interests of the state.

www.sliceoflaodicea.com/archives/2005/11/warnings_sounde.php

[BiggJawn]

17. Can I go teach Science and Evolution in the Sunday School this week?

No?
Then How can they teach religion in my Public School?
Hey, I'll even call it "The HISTORY of Evolution"!

[ecoalex]

19. All religions , or no religions

So they will study the Torrah, Koran, Bible, works of confucius , and wll the other religious texts, otherwise none should be studied.

All religions are equal, or none are to be studied.

Public school is not the venue for religious study.

Go to a church, mosque, temple, etc. keep itout of public schools.

More religio fascism

Mandated should be "The Power of Myth" by Joesph Campbell

[happyslug]

21. Yes you can if you get the Church's permission.

And that Darwin's books are relevant to the Church's mission in having a Sunday School. The point of this class is NOT to promote a Religion but to educate people in how the Bible has been used in out Society. We have to remember that what we call "Literature" and even "History Books" are a product of the Printing press and linen and pulp paper. Prior to the Invention of the Printing Press (and the introduction of linen paper about 1300) books were written to be read by readers in mass gatherings (Such as in Church, when the bible in Read in Church it is a surviving example of how MOST BOOKS were "read" prior to the invention of the Printing Press). Prue-Printing press Books were hand copied on parchment and thus expensive (Parchment is made from Animal skins, thus a book required the skins of Hundreds of Animals).

This all changed with the introduction of linen paper about 1300. Linen paper is a lot less expensive than parchment, through NOT throw away cheap like modern Pulp paper. Linen paper is generally made from old clothing, so the price of a book is like the price of a several new Suits. Linen is much cheaper than Parchment but but like a new set of clothes you just to NOT wear each piece of the set once and throw it away.

The significance of the adoption of Linen paper is that the hand printing press was invented right afterward (basically Linen paper made the printing of the book more expensive than the paper it was printed on, the reverse of the situation with Parchment). With linen paper books could be made affordable to the growing Middle Class of the time period (Still to expensive for the Majority of people who continued to get their news, literature and history by oral traditions via their church). During the Reformation this made Bibles and messages to the Church hierarchy easier to do, but it was still rare for people to have books at this time period.

Now in the late 1600s you had the invention of the Steam Printing Press, this mechanized press permitting the printing of vast numbers of books and pamphlets (Through not what we would call Newspaper and Almanacs, these were printed to be in circulation for MONTHS if not YEARS after they were printed). This is when you start to get Newspapers, Almanacs, and Literature for the price of the Printed word dropped enough for people to buy it for year to year use instead of a once in a lifetime purchase it had been previously. By the late 1700s these presses had become large enough that people would buy thing to read on a month to month basis (and thus the raise of pamphlets in the late 1700s). Even these were expensive and it was rare for people to buy these things except once or twice a month or it was something important like Thomas Paine "Common Sense" (and thus the start of what we would call Magazines, which were purchased and then passed around for months afterwords among readers).

Finally about 1850 you had the invention of cheap pulp paper and high speed printing presses that permitted what we would call weekly and as you get closer to 1900 daily newspaper. Pulp paper is so cheap people can read it once and throw it away. Pulp paper ended the hold of the Church over society for with pulp paper you could bypass the news information system of the Church for the first time in history (and this is the reason the power of the church has declined since that time period)

When it comes to the Bible, it was the First book Gutenberg Printed for he knew he could sell it. People wanted Bibles for use throughout their lives and thus were willing to buy a bible if they could read AND they could afford even one book. This was the majority of People prior to about 1850. Thus if you wanted to make a historical allegory or a point based on history you had to use the bible as an allegory. People owned and read the bible BUT not the books written prior to about 1700 (and since a large segment of the population prior to about 1850 could not read or write the only book they EVER heard from was in Church or some other public reader).

Now with the invention of the Steam Printing press the price of books DROPPED so that the upper Middle class could buy more and more books (And this continued till the invention of Radio in 1920). People started to write books for this group and thus you had the invention of modern Literature and History about 1700. Earlier books were re-printed during this time period but it is only with the 1700s that you get what we would now call "Fiction" and "Non-Fiction".

Most books prior to about 1700 were still wrote to be read by Readers NOT read by the person reading by him or herself (Exceptions occurred for example Machiavelli "The Prince" which was intended for one person through published and wildly read, but even "The Prince" uses Moses from the Bible as one of his many examples). Now Literature was meant to entertain not enlighten but like most great things, Literature was built on the existing social structure and that Social Structure included the Bible. Allegories to stories of the Bible show up in Literature starting almost immediately and continues to this day (Through you see less and less of it after about 1900, through that may be just based on the increase number of fiction and non-fiction books that exist that people can make allegories to).

The problem is a lot of good literature and history occurred prior to 1900 and to fully understand it a good background in the bible is essential. For example Why does the First Amendment NOT say Separation of Church and State? The answer is in 1787 such a division was not yet possible. The most efficient way to get information to people was via the Churches, and thus Churches were used till replaced as the more efficient way to spread news by modern Newspapers in the late 1800s. Thus the Amendment forbids the establishment of a Federal Religion but permits the use of such Church's as ways to spread news from the Government (The Amendment also permits Freedom of Religion but that does NOT prevent the Federal Government to use Churches to spread information).

One aspect of American History is the division between Protestant and Catholics on the issue of Faith and Works. To understand the dispute you have to read the bible. Why do Protestant point out Christ says religious leaders should NOT be called "Father" while Catholic Priests are called called "Father"? Reading of the Bible Beyond that text points out Christ was attacking people who INSISTED on being called "Father" as their right NOT being called "Father" as a sign of respect. Sounds like a minor dispute but to understand its use during the Reformation (and to understand the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation must be understood).

From my reading of the few passages of the textbook on line, the Text Book attempts to address the issue of both the use of the Bible in History, its affect on History and its affect on Literature.

Nature abhors a Vacuum and the Public Schools avoidance of the Bible had left a Vacuum filled in by various right wing hacks who used parts of it to further their agenda. Given this Vacuum, it has to be filled this Text book is an attempt to fill that Vacuum. Such Right Wing Hacks flourish in the US for unlike European Countries we do NOT teach religion in our Public School (Most European Schools do teach Religion, at least on a historical basis for it helps them understand their own history, through these Classes are much like this text-books as opposed to an actual indoctrination of Religion). France is the European Country with the greatest Separation of Church and State and even France teaches some religion in their Schools (Through since 1905 you have had a complete separation of Church and State in France and the teaching of Religion is more Historical in nature than ideological in nature).

My point is some understanding of the Bible is needed by most people. Understanding the Bible is like understanding Darwin's Theory of Evolution (you have to understand it to understand modern biology), or understanding Adam Smith "Wealth of nations" (to understand Economics) or Karl Marx "On Capital" (The connection of Economics and History) to understand our Society and History you have to understand the Bible (even Karl Marx read it to better understand the affect of Religion on people).

Thus if you can connect Darwin's Book with the Church's teachings I do NOT see any church denying you the opportunity to teach Darwin's theory in their Sunday School Class. The text-book in question is an attempt to help people understand the Bible in relations to the rest of our Society. Understanding our society is part of the Mission of the Public School and thus understanding the Bible in that context is part of the Mission of the Public School.

[BiggJawn]

22. Thank you for that exhaustive history of printing...

That Linen paper is very interesting stuff. I've handled books printed in 1695 that were in better shape than some of the pulp-paper ones printed in 1930.

Still.....

The mission of the textbook in question may very well be "... to help people understand the Bible in relations to the rest of our Society", but given the way the Taliborn-again have perverted EVERYTHING connected to Religion to their particular Fundamentalist worldview, I still say that having ANY discussion of religion in the Public School is wrong.

And I'd love to know of any NON-U-U church that would let me come in and talk about how the Universe is ageless, and that Man has lived for hundreds of thousands of years on an Earth that is millions of years old, and to pose the question of if Gawd is so omnipotent, why has He been so very, very quiet these last 2,000-odd years. You think a Nazarene or "Four-Square" church would allow it? I do not.

[VegasWolf]

20. If they want an elective of a religious nature, what about Philosophy

of The World's Major Religions where they compare and contrast the differences between the various imaginary sky beings and show how these imaginary sky being evolved over time. I took a course like this once, it was eye-opening!

[ecoalex]

24. Bullshit, science does not need any biblical view

What about science in other faith countries, is it not valid?

Your argument is lame

[0007]

27. Duh!!