Iraqis March, Say Elections Were Rigged

[sabra]

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2005/12/22/ap/headlines/d8em0lto0.txt

Iraqis March, Say Elections Were Rigged

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Large demonstrations broke out across the country Friday to denounce parliamentary elections that protesters say were rigged in favor of the main religious Shiite coalition.

Meanwhile, two Arab satellite television channels said that a Sudanese diplomat and five of his countrymen had been kidnapped in Iraq, and a Sudan Foreign Ministry spokesman appealed for their release.

...

Several hundred thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week's elections. Many Iraqis outside the religious Shiite coalition allege that the elections were unfair to smaller Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups.

During Friday prayers at Baghdad's Umm al-Qura mosque, the headquarters of the Association of Muslim Scholars, a major Sunni clerical group, Sheik Mahmoud al-Sumaidaei told followers they were "living a conspiracy built on lies and forgery."

[geomon666]

1. Wow

Just had a wicked bout of deja vu.

[reality based]

2. Welcome to imposed democracy "American style"

[IDemo]

3. Look for Diebold to win a no-bid contract n/t

[enigma000]

4. Wait a second here..........

Several hundred thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week's elections. Many Iraqis outside the religious Shiite coalition allege that the elections were unfair to smaller Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups.

Several hundred thousand people ? ? ? ?

Where are the demonstrations against the occupation? A few of these on the BBC, CNN, and (doubtful) FOX and the troops would be home by now.

[leftchick]

5. MSRNC: Major demonstrations protest Iraq elections (HUGE!)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10585658/

<snip>

Several hundred thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week’s elections. Many Iraqis outside the religious Shiite coalition allege that the elections were unfair to smaller Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups.




Iraqis demonstrate outside the Omar al-Mukhtar mosque in western Baghdad calling for the cancelation of the results of the December 15 elections and the holding new contests.

[cal04]

6. More pics

[sabra]

7. hmm... and when the results become "official" what will happen next?

[leftchick]

8. hint...

it won't be pretty. :(

[AuntiBush]

18. What happened to all those "welcome flowers?"

What a mess. Our poor "real" troops!

[TankLV]

38. I hope my son-in-law remains safe.

Get them all out NOW!

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Which Iraqis are saying it's rigged?

I hear Chalabi is one of the ones complaining the loudest because he group got creamed. I wouldn't put it past Chalabi to get a little civil war going to help his PNAC pals.

[gratuitous]

10. I don't know

It's a damn shame that all the reporters who were dutifully taking pictures of purple-fingered Iraqis just a couple of weeks ago seem to have all gone home. It would be nice if some folks had lingered for a little while to see what happened after the photo op. I know that in the U.S., after the photo op, they strike the set, everybody picks up their gear, and the site goes back to bucolic tranquility. Iraq was a little different. People were voting freely, many for the first time ever, and the story was not so much in the event of the polling, but in the aftermath: Who won, who lost, and what shape will the new government take?

But our intrepid bulldogs in the media had to get back home to watch Barbara Walters tell us everything she knows or can find out about Heaven.

[sabra]

12. Dozens of Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/ap/article.html?mi=D8ELEOMG0&apc=9002

Iraq Sunni, Shiite groups threaten boycott

Dozens of Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups threatened to boycott Iraq's new legislature Thursday if complaints about tainted voting are not reviewed by an international body.

A representative for former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi described the Dec. 15 vote as "fraudulent" and the elected lawmakers "illegitimate."

A joint statement issued by 35 political groups that competed in last week's elections said the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq, which oversaw the ballot, should be disbanded.

It also said the more than 1,250 complaints about fraud, ballot box stuffing and intimidation should be reviewed by international organizations such as the United Nations, the European Union, the Organization of the Islamic Conference or the Arab League.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. If I was a Black Ops Guy

If I was a black ops guy, and knew that Chalabi and/or Allawi couldn't win outright, I'd engineer evidence that the actual winners (the Shiite religious coalition) actually cheated, then foment rebellion among the Chalabi supporters behind that evidence.

Put another way, you want Chalabi to win, but you know there's no chance of that. You don't wanbt the religious Shiites to win, but you know they will win easily. Do you rig the election such that Chalabi would win? No, that would be too transparent. You rig the election such that the religious Shiites win by too much, thus delegitimizing their win (since they would have won legitimately anyway). Now, the actual Chalabi people have a "real" beef, and the Sunni feel like they can throw in with the secular Shiites against the religious Shiites. Then you start organizing the protest and delegitimizing the religious Shiites. That's how I would do it if I were a black ops guy.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. You got it

Get your civil war on. Bush needs a new distraction.

[0007]

28. The majority of the Iraqi Army are What? The U.S. is training

the Army that will win? Go figure.

[meganmonkey]

14. Yeah, and when we though Ohio was rigged,

we got about 800 people to show up for a rally :eyes:

I wonder what would have happened if we'd had several hundred thousand in Columbus that day?

[Blue_Tires]

35. good point nt

[othermeans]

15. Iraqis March, Say Elections Were Rigged

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Large demonstrations broke out across the country Friday to denounce parliamentary elections that protesters called rigged in favor of the main religious Shiite coalition.

As many as 20,000 people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week's elections. Many Iraqis outside the religious Shiite coalition allege that the elections were unfair to smaller Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups.

The U.S. military said two soldiers were killed when their vehicle struck a roadside bomb in Baghdad Friday. No other details were released. At least 2,163 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

<snip>

Does it seem to you they don't even mention casualties anymore except in a back page reference?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. In a Kayleeeforyah style accent.... "Totally" nt.

[AuntiBush]

17. Boy, Our Wonderful Democracy is Just Spreading All O'er The Place.

There ya go. Mission accomplished, my a##.

Or is that what they wanted? For that endless war$$$.

[Clarkie1]

19. It also says the U.N. refused a request to review the election result.

Who at the U.N. decided to turn down that offer?

[bklyncowgirl]

20. Democracy, ain't it sweet. Purple fingers anyone?

Free elections are wonderful but what do you do when the "wrong" side wins?

Anyone with half a brain knew that the religious Shiites were going to win this thing and that the Sunnis and secular Shiites were going to be pissed as hell.

What I want to know is why the Bush administration which, shall we say, has some experience in election rigging, didn't do anything to stop it. Were there any international observers aside from the press who were obviously entranced by the sweet sight of an oppressed people voting for the first time.

Are they just stupid or is this what they wanted to have happen? If the Sunnis and the secularists go into open revolt, the shit will hit the fan and our troops will be stuck in the middle of a civil war.

Nice work Chimpy.

[Pavulon]

21. Minority, who once ruled a majority

now upset. Sounds like sunnis don't like the idea of shia control.
Tough titty said the kitty...

[sabra]

22. it's not just the Sunni's protesting, Secular Shia are involved too

[Cults4Bush]

25. Wow yay for Sharia Law, eh? Heres a stone for you to murder someones

cheating wife with.

Two wrongs dont make a right.
The ends do not justify the means.
We enabled the tyranny of the ruling Baath party for years, the religous Shia would saw off your head as quickly as AQ in Iraq.
Vengeance is not ours to dispense.

The lack of humanism in your post is less than a simian could manage.

[Pavulon]

31. We are just postponing

the civil war. It is just a matter of time.

How emotional should I be about the losing parties complaining about a predictable outcome.

Not all shia are nuts, you are generalizing a massive religious group.

[Cults4Bush]

39. Nope I didn't...

to quote me "the religious Shia" that is the group (if I may broad brush a bit but not nearly so far as you implied) of people who just took the election not the secularists. The religous Shia back a severe form of Muslim goverened law, law that is quite barbaric in its practice when exercised in conjunction and full authority of an elected governemnt ruled by religous edicts issued by Khomeinis. Where di I say they were nuts, the logical implication to what I said was of angered reaction not "nuts". This particular sect of Islam is not evil, but much like modern Christianity in the, US loud, obnoxious, dangerous, extremists get a lot of the attention for .... well acts of terrorism.

I dont think the civil war is a matter of time, it is already here in only a less intense variety than what may come. The goal now is to try and keep it from going into overdrive, that goal got much farther removed because of a bad vote that doean't make sense so far numerically. We could have kept that form happening if there was any integrity at all left in our government... tough tit.

You dont have to be emotional, I just commented on your comment because honestly this is a highly charged political message board in the most highly charged political atmosphere in modern times. You chose to post that basically you dont give a shit and tough tits for those about to be savaged, as if there were no innocents amongst their numbers. Just as with the religous Shia (where you find some of the more extreme forms of Islam) they have innocents amongst their numbers.

You don't care about them because it is after all tough tit.

Predictable outcome or not your posts on this thread are still lacking in humanity.

[Pavulon]

41. Most

People believe there will be a civil war or serious realignment of power in Iraq. NPR has a General Odom, the previous director of the NSA, stating just this.

The shia are a majority in Iraq. So logic would say they would win in a fair election.

The only thing that is holding a country with arbitrary borders together is nationalism and a massive oil reserve. The religious and tribal groups go back before someone drew Iraq out on a map.

You infer a good bit from the few sentences I wrote.

Stepping back and taking a realistic view of the situation does not require an emotional stake.

Lack of emotion does not mean I do not care what happens to the people who will die because of our invasion.

[Cults4Bush]

47. Its not that they won, it is how much they won it by.

You're right I did infer a bit from your few posts.

But how on earth could those posts not considered callous when you say such things as "tough titty" to those who are about to become seriously oppressed? I dont care who they are human suffereing should evoke compassion not flippant callousness. but if being cold an ddetached is your way of doing things then have at it just dont be surprised to someone taking issue with it from time to time.

I felt you were going to say youre a realist and your decription of a realistic view is not in any way the only view that could be considered realistic.

I agree with Odom FWIW, my point was that the civil war is already happening that there is indeed only a possibility of trying to keep it to a low intensity conflict of hopefully short duration. The longer we stay the less of a possibility that becomes, the longer we stay the longer the conflict will drag and the longer the conflict drags the greater the possibility it fully blossoms into high intensity civil war.

Anyways nice chatting with you.

[Selatius]

23. I wonder what this means for the US occupation?

Would this mean we keep our troops on the ground longer? Would they get stuck in the middle of a potential sectarian conflict?

[Vinca]

24. The Iraqis are showing us a thing or two. This is what we should

have done in 2000 and 2004. Good for them.

[Hyernel]

26. They care more about legitimate elections than Americans do.

We could learn something from them.

[0007]

27. Guess Chalabi is gonna get his way one way or another.

[oasis]

42. Chalabi's just a soreloserman.

:hide:

[Xenotime]

29. We are obviously not wanted there.

We need to get out NOW!

[Gloria]

30. Report on BBC this AM ended with a quote from a UN official

saying that while there were voting problems, "Sunnis would have to make peace with the fact that they would have a smaller representation in the government...." (sic)

It struck me as a very clinical and cynical comment, as if it was a "so what?" kind of moment.....

Sort of like being in the good ole USA!!

[Thom Little]

32. Related: Coalition forms to boycott Iraq's parliament

Representatives of 35 voting blocs rejected the partial results of the election released so far.

In a joint statement, the parties called for an international review of more than 1,500 allegations of irregularities lodged with Iraq's electoral commission.

.......

If the parties make good their threat, the new government would face serious questions of legitimacy from many Iraqis before it had even been formed.

Sunni Arabs, from whose ranks the bulk of the insurgency is drawn, would again feel disenfranchised while the restraining influences of secular Shias such as the former prime minister Iyad Allawi would also be absent.

"These elections are fraudulent and the next parliament is illegitimate," said Ibrahim al-Janabi, a spokesman for Mr Allawi. "We reject the whole process."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/23/wirq23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/12/23/ixworld.html

[Nutmegger]

33. What else can one expect

when we're dealing with an American sponsored government?

[yurbud]

34. election rigging in Ukraine, Iraq, but not HERE?

[Nevernose]

36. Why aren't they telling us about the GOOD news?

:sarcasm:

[TankLV]

37. Oo - oh, boss!

Feets don't fail me now!

Seems that's not quite the "democracy" and "freedom" they had it mind, or is it?!?!

[Rainscents]

40. Oh, uhm, Didn't Bush said... Election was success? Or was I dreaming?

Anything Bush do, he fuck it up... good going, George!

[bklyncowgirl]

43. Nice going Chimpy.

Iraq is now moving to become an Islamic Republic closely allied with Iran or it's going to dissolve into civil war.

Tell me again how this makes us safer.

[orleans]

44. no wonder people are pissed off--they must've heard about those

four tanker trucks of forged ballots. apparently we only caught one truckload.

"Tanker full of forged ballots

The tanker was seized in the evening by agents with the U.S.-trained border protection force at the Iraqi town of Badra, after crossing at Munthirya on the Iraqi border, the official said. According to an Iraqi official, the border police found several thousand ballots inside, with the names filled out but not the ballots themselves.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that the Iranian truck driver told the police that at least three other trucks filled with ballots had crossed from Iran at different spots. The official, who did not attend the interrogation, said he did not know where the driver was headed, or what he intended to do with the ballots.

The seizure of the truck comes at a delicate time in Iran's relations with Iraq and the United States. The U.S. government has alleged that Iranian agents are deeply involved in trying to influence events in Iraq, by funneling money to Shiite political parties and by arming and training many of the illegal militias that are bedeviling the country.
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/13402468.htm

[lanlady]

45. US neocons singing the same tune

Heard superslime nutjob Cliff May on the BBC the other day complaining of widespread fraud. The neocons must really be shitting their pants.

That same BBC report interviewed Iraqi women who had been shot in the legs for not wearing head scarves...

[pinniped]

46. Let's see the pieces of shit in the wh try to pin this on the mythical...

al-Zarqawi.

[newspeak]

48. Iraq under Saddam was more westernized

I remember when the Ayatollah came into Iran, approximately 25,000 women were murdered for refusing to cover their faces. The US msm never even covered what happened to those women. Now we're looking at the possibility of the same thing happening in Iraq. A repressive majority does not make it right!!!!! The whole situation is totally screwed. I see civil war in the near future.