Air marshals to patrol land, sea transport

[Jim__]

Given last weeks shooting of an unarmed man by Air Marshalls, I find this to be pretty scary:

Teams of undercover air marshals and uniformed law enforcement officers will fan out to bus and train stations, ferries, and mass transit facilities across the country this week in a new test program to conduct surveillance and "counter potential criminal terrorist activity in all modes of transportation," according to internal federal documents.

According to internal Transportation Security Administration documents, the program calls for newly created "Visible Intermodal Protection and Response" teams -- called "viper" teams -- to take positions in public areas along Amtrak's Northeast Corridor and Los Angeles rail lines; ferries in Washington state; and mass transit systems in Atlanta, Philadelphia and Baltimore. Viper teams will patrol the Washington Metro system, as well. More...

[shraby]

1. Why does this remind me of movies about

Nazi Germany???

[DELUSIONAL]

2. so REAL terrorists -- like red necked American Nazis

can patrol in civilian clothes with fake IDs and demand that Americans "obey" or they will be shot.

This plan is so open to abuse . . . we can't even imagine what the evil ones will do with it.

[Spinzonner]

3. If they spent more of their time

actually planning to protect things and less sitting around thinking about how to get words like 'Intermodal' into documents, maybe they'd be more effective.

[Oceansaway]

4. i agree....n/t

[MercutioATC]

5. Even IF the FAM's in Miami made an error...

...that'd be the first FAM shooting in four years.

I don't see anybody suggesting we eliminate police because they make an occasional bad judgement call.

[Jim__]

6. I think police training is heavily oriented toward dealing with civilian

populations and civil type problems.

Given what was said last week, the Air Marshalls are more of a paramilitary group whose training is that it's acceptable to shoot an innocent person rather than risk a larger disaster.

I think there is a large difference between the police and paramilitary.

[MercutioATC]

7. Then why do police shoot more people than FAMs?

If the FAMs are, as you suggest, "a paramilitary group whose training is that it's acceptable to shoot an innocent person rather than risk a larger disaster", why is this the FIRST time a FAM has discharged a weapon in four years?

[Jim__]

8. The question for me is why did they shoot an unarmed man ...

whose only "crime" was that he was trying to get off a plane. And, why did their organization say they acted within policy? It is this acceptance of "collateral damage" that defines them as a paramilitary group. And if they think the actions of the man on the plane were so outside the bounds of acceptable behavior that shooting him was justified, what the hell is going to happen when they start riding the NYC subway?

[MercutioATC]

9. Assuming it was an error (and that's an assumption at this point)

FAMs have STILL only discharged their weapons once in the past four years. Even if this shooting turns out to be unjustified, that's still a MUCH better record than any large metropolitan police force.

[RedOnce]

22. Which apparently makes their lifetime win/loss record 0 & 1

It also begs the question why do we need them? How many would be bombers and hijackers have they actually foiled?

[Jim__]

24. You think that shooting an unarmed man having a panic attack

may not have been an error? By the air marshalls criteria, it may have been justified; but any police department in this country would review policies that led to a "justified" shooting of an unarmed man who is having a panic attack. If the air marshalls accept such a policy as valid, that speaks to why we don't want them getting involved in anything resembling police work.

As to the record, while it may be better in terms of absolute numbers, I doubt very much that it is better on a per incident basis.

[High Plains]

25. That's not exactly reassuring.

[Catchawave]

11. "Terrorists seek security flaws"

Unfriendly eyes follow air marshals
Experts: Terrorists seek security flaws

By Jon Hilkevitch
Tribune transportation reporter
Published December 8, 2005



<snip>
"Ever since the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, air marshals and airline pilots have reported instances to federal authorities in which individuals behaving suspiciously appeared to be evaluating onboard security, according to congressional testimony. It is believed that terrorists continue to fly on commercial airlines to and within the U.S. to look for weak links in layers of the still-evolving aviation security system.

The ploys have ranged from faking illnesses to disobeying orders from flight attendants to sit down to a few reported cases of individuals running toward the cockpit door in apparent efforts to flush any air marshals from their seats."
<snip>

more...http://www.airmarshal.us/?ABCDEFGH

[MisterP]

20. I thought it was Iraqi "drones of death" we had to look out for

or was it the scuba-diving dam detonating Afghans?
Unfortunately, the feds can't really be trusted on terror at the moment: they benefit from both terrorism and the fear of it.

[High Plains]

26. Suspicious individuals...

or suspicious pilots and marshals?

It's a stretch to use this to suggest that "terrorists seek security flaws." Somebody "appeared to be evaluating onboard security"? What does that mean? He was looking around the plane? "Faking illnesses"? Do tell. "Running toward the cockpit door in apparent attempts to flush air marshals from their seats"? Apparent? Running toward the front of the plane to get off, perhaps?

Ah, terror-mania, where will it stop? Apparently not with airplanes...

To tell you the truth, I worry a whole lot more about the guys who are supposedly protecting me from the terrorists than I do about the terrorists. Who will protect me from my protectors?

[RedOnce]

27. Interesting point Catchawave. This is how they would probe...

But, do you feel that this justifies the shooting of the bipolar man?

Should others be shot when they become ill, or run in the cabin? What about the deaf who cannot hear the orders, do Marshals know how to sign...or should they be shot to?

[Virginian]

10. Are we at level Orange? Is there a verifyable threat?

Is there something going on that we should know about? Is this just a vulnerable time of the year with a high volume of travellers using public transportation?

Or, is this, as stated above, the beginning of the storm troopers like those from Nazi Germany?

Supposedly there aren't enough marshals to staff every flight, but suddenly we have an abundance to use on trains and ferries? How about cruise liners?

[UpInArms]

12. US air marshals to deploy on ground transit

http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2005-12-14T170359Z_01_N14160040_RTRIDST_0_SECURITY-MARSHALS-UPDATE-1.XML

WASHINGTON, Dec 14 (Reuters) - U.S. air marshals, who usually provide security on airplanes, will join local law enforcement this week to test how effectively they can boost security on ground transport, officials said on Wednesday.

Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman Amy von Walter said air marshals, bomb-sniffing dogs and TSA inspectors will work in a test program on mass transit, rail and buses in six cities across the country.

"We will be testing the agency's ability to deploy a variety of resources to quickly and effectively raise the bar of security in any mode of transportation anywhere in the country," von Walter said.

<snip>

Internal TSA documents, first reported by The Washington Post, said the program called for Visible Intermodal Protection and Response teams, or 'Viper" teams to be deployed on the ground-based transport.

The programs from Dec. 13-18 are each three-days long and will include mass transit and rail in Los Angeles, Washington, Philadelphia and Baltimore, but only mass transit in Atlanta and buses in Houston.

...more...

[Drum]

13. If "success" means nothing occurs,

then how is such a "test" validated???

[Nordmadr]

14. Wonder how long it will be before those bomb sniffing dogs

are drug sniffing dogs, and when we will be asked for proper identification at every checkpoint...I mean transit stop.

Óláfr

[Horse with no Name]

15. Doesn't that seem to be the next logical step?

When has this administration ever taken in anything through the front door?
They always sneak it through the backdoor when nobody is looking.
They WANT and DESIRE a police state.
These agents are federal. No state authority whatsoever.
Why are the states allowing this to happen?

[dxdem]

16. The cue is...

boots. Tall...leather...shiny...boots. Look for them.

[Brundle_Fly]

17. with the great sucess

they've shown on airplanes taking care of US citizens, this is a great move...

"uh, I think he said he had a bomb...yeah that's it...thats what happened."

[Angry Girl]

18. Heard about Deborah Davis? Arrested on public bus for not showing papers!

http://www.papersplease.org/davis/facts.html

[Nordmadr]

19. Wonder if she would have been another casualty of the

War on Terra had Marshals been in place there?

Olafr

[Judi Lynn]

21. US Security Teams to Patrol Train, Bus, Subway Stations

US Security Teams to Patrol Train, Bus, Subway Stations
By VOA News
14 December 2005

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration says starting this week, it is deploying teams of federal air marshals and uniformed law enforcement officers at bus and train stations across the country.

The agency says these teams will patrol mass transit systems in the cities of Atlanta, Georgia; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Baltimore, Maryland; and Washington, D.C., all in the eastern United States. They will also patrol bus stations in Houston, Texas, and Amtrak rail lines on the east and west coasts of the United States.

The agency says some of the officers will wear TSA gear, while others will work undercover.

An air marshal spokesman, David Adams, says the service is trying to expand its coverage and tighten security at transit stations over the end-of-the-year holidays. He said there is no new intelligence suggesting terrorists are targeting public transportation.
(snip/)

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-12-14-voa60.cfm

[BadgerKid]

23. Wouldn't paid informants be sneakier

to find "dissenters". Something's seriously wrong -- this administration isn't even trying to conceal themselves.