California regulators unveil solar power plan

[Thom Little]

State energy regulators on Tuesday unveiled one of the nation's most ambitious programs to expand the market for solar power, proposing to offer more than $3 billion in consumer rebates over the next decade.

Environmentalists said the California Solar Initiative would help reduce the cost of solar energy, create jobs and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases blamed for global warming.

"With rising energy prices and continued air pollution, this is exactly the kind of landmark initiative California needs," said Bernadette Del Chiaro, clean energy advocate for Environment California. "From this, we're going to see cleaner air, affordable solar energy and California regaining its world leadership in solar power."

The plan aims to install panels to produce 3,000 megawatts of solar energy on 1 million homes, businesses and public buildings over 11 years.

.......

The initiative would offer rebates to homes, businesses, farms, schools and other public buildings that install rooftop solar panels.



http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2005/12/13/calif_regulators_unveil_solar_power_plan/

[truthisfreedom]

1. 3000 megawatts is quite significant. it's enough power to satisfy the

needs of half a million homes at pretty much full power during the day in a warm cllimate... excellent! i love it.

[salin]

2. recommended.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

3. That's gonna piss a few power barons off bigtime.

[seriousstan]

4. Explain how this is something other than a solar subsidy?

It takes 2-5 years to reclaim the energy needed to produce the solar panels. The panels themselves last 20 years. The bond to pay for this isn't paid off for 25 years.

This doesn't even address to $4-$4.5 /w installed cost of the system.

How does this make economical sense. I see it as a feel good move that looks like a solar company subsidy.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Sure beats blowing

a billion a week in Iraq.

Plus when the grid goes down, you still have power and don't have throw away a refrigerator full of food every time.

[AlecBGreen]

6. and no "hidden costs"

that standard power generation creates. Acid rain, deforestation, loss of species diversity, groundwater pollution ... the list goes on and on. With Solar, its pretty much "what you see is what you get." Good for CA!

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. I lived in an old apartment building in So FL at one time

The building had solar panels that were installed back in the 20's(?) for hot water. The system worked great, plus we got free natural gas so our electric bills were almost nothing, especially if you didn't need to run the AC.

[sendero]

10. That's a lot better than..

.... oil subsidies. What the eff is wrong with subsidies. Let's subsidize something beneficial for a change.

If someone would throw some serious money at this problem, the price per watt will come down.

[jsamuel]

11. Florida has been doing this town by town due to power outages

Especially from Hurricanes, but no matter what happens, they are still running because of the solar power. It is like an Enron Protector in CA.


Also tell me how investing in oil infrastructure like the feds are doing makes "economic sense".

[Gold Metal Flake]

25. Solar panels last longer than 20 years.

New solar panels are warranted against degredation of output beyond 20% at twenty years. No reason they can't last 50 years barring mechanical damage.

[madmark]

37. I would imagine it still is a subsidy and there will have to be a lot

more solar production before you start hitting economies of scale; but I think if you factor in the reduction of the negative exernal costs that renewables like solar bring (economic disengagement from the middle east, reduction in green house gases, permanent domestic energy production capacity uncoupled from world fossil fuel commodity demand, reduction in other external costs , and shifting from commodity based energy production to technology based energy production, along with the coming economies of scale, you begin to see economic sense.

[jsamuel]

7. see, we can do it, they are just choosing not to

And I think we can all guess why federal government isn’t doing this.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. The Bush administration has no interest

in doing what's best for the American people.

That is why this country needs new leadership, now.

What ever happened to that can do attitude that this country was built on? BushCo sure has done their best to convince us we can't.

[Booster]

24. I read a couple of months ago that the Bush's are investing

heavily in solar energy stock, so even though you're right about them not caring about what's best for the American, they sure care about their own interests.

[pberq]

12. Great news! - recommended

[Gregorian]

13. It takes energy to make solar installations.

But it IS amortized over time. They don't just appear on houses without a cost. And one other problem people don't even talk about yet is that photovoltaics as well as batteries, are not very efficient yet. So people who buy a system today, will most likely be disposing of it and upgrading to a newer system later. Then there are other issues.

I personally am trying to avoid photovoltaic until the level of efficiency rises to a certain level. I'm not sure we are quite where we need to be yet. And that also applies to batteries. We may very well use hydrogen as our batteries. And that is still being developed.

Another thing to think about is that instead of having one central efficient source, like a powerplant, each house has it's own system. That's not a good way to achieve the most pollution free design. But it's probably the only way to escape our oil dependency.

The next five years are going to be pretty fun.

[400Years]

14. a distributed system is a good thing because it obviates

the problem of monopolization of the power grid.

[Gregorian]

16. I don't think we have a choice any more.

It's going to be mostly distributed except for clusters. It's a tradeoff. Smaller losses for individual systems, but higher costs in terms of the system.

I am more optimistic than I sound. The reality of energy versus population is pretty dismal.

[Gold Metal Flake]

27. Yes, it takes energy to make energy.

That's the pain of it all. But, solar has gained tremendously in efficiency in the new-style concentrator arrays.

Concentrators allow the use of higher-efficiency gallium space solar cells. Concentrators using Spectrolab cells at 236 suns hold the world record of 39% efficiency. Some array manufacturers plan to use these cells at around 500 suns. We are seeing the convergence of technological advancement, government involvement (in Europe and China, at least) and investor interest that will fuel an explosion in PV development and deployment in the next 20 years.

This article is interesting, but development has exceeded what is in it:

http://www.earthscan.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/486/v/3/sp/

[Sub Atomic]

15. I'm glad to see this initiative moving forward.

I donated money to them several weeks back when a young woman knocked on my door.

This is the best way to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.

[bikeboy]

17. I sit on an oversight committee

for a bond project to rebuild our district's school buildings. Our high school is a 100 million dollar building. I have been successful in getting the district to solarize the building and to look at the needs of the next 20 buildings to be done. This is very important for many reasons. In California if the ground shakes bad those buildings will be temporary housing, hospital, city hall...why? Because the lights will be on and communication will be able to happen because there is power there. Not like what happened in Rita or Katrina... Also there is the potential to make a deficit category of the general fund that the district has to actually run the schools with, into a revenue generating asset or at least zero out the most of the energy costs and therefore increasing the capitol spent on actual education. last but not least is the benefit that future generations will get from having the daily stream of info from the collectors at the hands of teachers and students in science programs of today. Those student that grow up with the technology will be more interested in the advancement of the science because it is something they started learning the benefits of early in life and will see it as a normal, logical, progression.

Our district West Contra Costa School District has the second largest bond program in the State, it's now at 1 Billion Dollars.

[nicknameless]

34. Good on ya. And welcome to DU.

:)

[stepnw1f]

18. Awesome!!!!

and recommended!

[SoCalDem]

19. Rebates are a start, but they don;t address the fact

that MOST people do not have the money to put out in the first place.. I can also say that the California rebate program" has not worked for me.. TWICE I have bought "rebate appliances"...supplied all the information and was denied the rebate.. Once because they claimed it was NOT a rebate-appliance, even though the numbers were ON the form..and the second time, because the "funds for that year were already exhausted"..

If we are serious about energy conservation, there has to be a SUBSIDY to have the stuff installed in the first place instead of a rebate..

Lots of people rent or are barely making their house payments.. They will not be able to afford the equipment.. It's like the hybrid car dilemma.. they are woonderful, but when all you can afford is a used older car, they are a pipe-dream for most people

[slackmaster]

23. True, but a large number of people do have the money in equity

The runup in home values has given a lot of CA homeowners more than enough leverage to finance the installation.

Every household that goes solar takes pressure off of the supply. Renters and low-income homeowners should see some indirect benefits.

[shantipriya]

20. Solar Power and AHNOLD!!!

Does Ahnauld,the piece of meat, have a position on Solar power?

[NorthernSpy]

28. Ahnold wants a solar-powered electric chair for the state prison

That's his angle.

:dunce:

[Quetzalro]

21. Solar's Rocky Past

An article in this month's issue of "Home Power" magazine, called Runway Solar, discusses the "Gold Rush" that was created by federal tax credits and rebates in the early 80's. Fly-by-night companies streamed in with overzealous sales pitches to capitalize on the window of opportunity. There were not enough trained installers to go around, and the many of the systems were untested. When the tax credits expired in 1985, the whole business crashed, leaving consumers high and dry.

The article's author, a solar installer, believes subsidies to U.S. manufacturers would be best. He recommends common sense in evaluating dealers, contractors and installers -- find companies and people with a good track record in the industry. There are more of those around these days.

I think the times and attitudes are far different than they were in the eighties. Peak oil and Iraq are showing us daily how asleep we have been. My hope is that solar rooftops will be contagious.

[XemaSab]

30. Welcome to DU, Quetzalro!!!!!

You bird????

:D

[newyawker99]

31. Hi Quetzalro!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[slackmaster]

22. Let's hope the legislature doesn't fuck this one up

The governor's widely publicized "Million Solar Roofs" initiative had bipartisan support, but it died in the Legislature this year after construction unions demanded high wages for solar panel installers.

Article is not exactly accurate here. Ahnold's initiative died not because of unions demanding high wages - The condition was that only installations done by union labor would have been eligible for the rebate. That gave them an effective monopoly and would have eliminated any benefit for able-bodied, skilled homeowners like me who are capable of doing most of the installation ourselves. (A licensed electrician will always be required to do the final hookup of you solar system into your distribution panel, which is critical for safety.)

[JudyM]

26. Happy to hear this great news today. What companies are likely to lead

in the production? Seems like investing in them will help strengthen them, as well.

[Megahurtz]

29. Smartest thing I've heard yet!

Since the sun constantly shines here.

[RedOnce]

32. Way cool!

[Massacure]

33. 3 billion dollars that could be spent on something better like wind.

In the grand scheme of things, wind IS solar energy, but much much cheaper. 100 meters up, its more constant too.

[madmark]

36. It doesnt have to be an either or proposition; the renewable

energy portfolio should be diversified. Some places will gravitate more to solar (AZ). Some wind (Texas, South Dakota). Some will have both (CA).

[madmark]

35. domestic renewable engergy production capacity is, for many

reasons (telling opec to fuckoff, reduction of exposure to world fossil fuel demand, economic disengagement from the middle east, reduction of green house gases, creating economies of scale for more renewable energy production capacity, reducing exposure to fossil fuel energy supply shocks, creating permanent energy supply, ect).