Catholic bishops equate health care to a 'moral right'

[Thom Little]

Kentucky's Roman Catholic bishops on Wednesday released a statement that equates adequate health care to a "moral right" and said the state should do more to ensure medical treatment for those who cannot afford it.

A statement released by the Catholic Conference of Kentucky notes a 2004 study that estimated there were 600,000 Kentuckians without health insurance coverage, including 100,000 children.

"The lack of access to affordable health care for so many children and adults in our country and in Kentucky is a structural injustice that harms people and undermines the common good," said the statement.

.......

"We bishops of Kentucky consider access to adequate health care to be a basic human right, necessary for the development and maintenance of life and for the ability of human beings to realize the fullness of their dignity," said Archbishop Thomas C. Kelly, chairman of the board of the Catholic Conference.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KY_CATHOLIC_CARE_KYOL-?SITE=VARIT&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-12-07-16-06-34

[Erika]

1. It sounds like Christ's teachings to take care of the poor

are coming back into fashion.

The fundamentalists are not going to like this and the right wing conservatives are saying it would be nice but the money is just not there. Monies ARE available for tax cuts to the rich and bombing third world countries however. Republicans do have their priorities.

[Rich Hunt]

31. we haven't heard too much from the fundies lately

I guess things aren't going all that well for them...

This is good. The Catholic Church needs to make more of an effort distinguish itself from the christian right.

[MarianJack]

53. One reason that this Catholic and his lovely wife...

...are VERY verbal on this issue!

[napi21]

2. UH OH! The fundies are gonna start hating the Catholics again!

They used to be bitter enemies, and then joined forces to fight against abortion and Gays, but if those nasty Catholics start fighting for health care for the poor, that would take $$ out of the fundie pockets, and they'll be fighting again!

[Erika]

3. Yeah, the Catholics are saying health care is a moral issue

Fundamentalists only like moral issues that don't require them to pay anything. Banning gay rights is free. They'll go for that every time. But helping Americans to have health care, well, that's something else.

[napi21]

4. Actually, it's not only the Catholics that are saying that.

Lots of Dems are too, and the battle was started by Howard Dean!

[Erika]

5. Yes, Dean is a doctor who cares

Go Dr. Dean!

[ashling]

55. Don't get me wrong, I love Howard, but

the battle was started by Howard Dean!

lots of people (and by that I mean Dems) have been fighting this battle a long time before Howard got involved. To his credit, Howard Dean has renewed the fight.

[Nomen Tuum]

9. Does this apply to women's health issues too?

Looking at their track record here, I guess not, since the Catholic Church bought several hospitals and fired the gynecologists. Another doctor was fired for prescribing birth control pills.

[MountainLaurel]

13. Of course not

Women aren't fully human, you know. It's Eve's fault.

:sarcasm:

[Bridget Burke]

16. I don't agree with the Church's policies on reproductive issues...

But--do you have more info on the fired gynecologists?

[MountainLaurel]

30. Here's one example

http://www.wcla.org/98-summer/su98-17.html

"Doctors and staff at merged hospitals are forced to sign statements promising to adhere to the religious directives, and often are prohibited from even referring patients elsewhere for the banned services. A Maryland physician has filed a lawsuit charging that she was fired from a local hospital for refusing to sign a pledge to follow Catholic directives."

[Lefty48197]

82. Catholics speak out against the death penalty too

just thought I'd toss that in.

[MarianJack]

54. Start hating us AGAIN?

When the hell did they ever STOP?

Dipshit fundies!

[xchrom]

6. catholic bishops sold their right to a moral

high ground -- so who cares what they say?

even a blind man hits the target once in a while.

[Bridget Burke]

10. No, they didn't.

And plenty of people care what they say.

Judge not.

[xchrom]

14. look -- as long as they play persecute the gay folk game

i'll call 'em as i fuckin well see 'em.

plenty of folk don't need a morally compromised bunch of pedophile protectors to tell the the diff between right and wrong.

and by the way -- they could do without a nazi as pope.

[Bridget Burke]

17. Are the recent issues you mentioned why you hate the Church?

Or were you raised that way?

[xchrom]

24. lol -- you're funny.

your hate for gay people is showing all over the place.

[Bridget Burke]

27. No form of hatred is funny.

Some people are easily amused.

[xchrom]

28. you should know.

[Bridget Burke]

29. So, you are as brilliant as you are charming.

What have you done lately to feed the hungry or heal the sick?

[xchrom]

43. lol -- i volunteer and donate to

do those things.

some through my church -- episcopalian.

i don't hate the catholic church -- but the church has opened a war on gay people{and always at war with women} -- and
have earned my anger.

what did you do -- leave your tacky charms on a bracelet someplace -- and you're right, i'm not briliant -- but
i do better than your hypocritical self and your sanctimonious, gay hating church.

[sarcasmo]

86. Because someone dislikes the church that makes them hateful?

[Rich Hunt]

33. two things

You impute prejudices to her that she doesn't have.

You don't answer her questions.

So I'll back her up: were you raised that way?

[xchrom]

45. none of your business.

if support a homophobic organization -- the you support their actions.

you might not like them -- but there it is.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

73. lol -- dude, you are wack.

nazi -- not white enough -- i hope you get help for that.

cause that is fucking funny shit:rofl:

[Rich Hunt]

76. yeah, well go ahead

Go ahead and turn your back on what is happening in this country to people whom the WASP organized crime network don't like.

[xchrom]

77. right, that's why i've been a liberal activist for so long

so i could ignore that shit.

you know nothing, nothing about my life as a gay man -- the cathholic church is a prime, current example
of the kind of discrimination, and worse that my community has had to put with since forever.

so cry me a fuckin river.:nopity:

[LostinVA]

35. For shame! Bridget Burke is not a homophobe

I've been reading her posts for a long time. And, although I don't always agree with her (because who does agree all of the time), never have I seen her make a nasty ant-gay statement.

And, I'm gay.

[Bridget Burke]

38. Thank you.

As a former Catholic, I certainly do not agree with many Church policies. But these Bishops actually got something right. The Church is against capital punishment & aggressive war. And it's been for economic justice for a long time. (Not that the Church is monolithic.)

I still have hopes that the Church will "grow up" concerning sexual matters.

And I used to have quite a few gay friends & co-workers. Most of them died in the 80's.

[xchrom]

46. if you actively support an organization

that is actively pursuing a purge of gay people -- by extension you are acting
in a homophobic manner.

[shrike]

64. U.S. armed forces are a wee bit homophobic, no?

Then I guess I should demand my brother, cousins, stepniece, et. al., immediately resign their commissions forthwith -- they are homophobes and I will have none of that.

[xchrom]

72. up to you -- it's your life.

as for me -- the military holds no mystique.

[shrike]

74. But the Church does, I guess

[xchrom]

78. what ever.

i have no idea what you're talking about.

[shrike]

80. Guess sarcasm is lost on some people

I was extrapolating your logic. (Support/involve oneself a homophobic organization and you yourself are giving aid and comfort to homophobes. Similar to what you stated above.

[xchrom]

81. lol

(Support/involve oneself a homophobic organization ''

see what i mean?

[shrike]

87. You spend an entire thread talking about the Catholic church

And homophobia and you don't know what I'm talking about?

Unless the post involves typos, I guess

[Lefty48197]

83. plus, I'm an American

and America has an anti gay agenda, so I guess I do too...

[closeupready]

18. Totally right.

Can't believe I still call myself Catholic sometimes.

[xchrom]

26. thank you.

[LostinVA]

22. No all Bishops are anti-gay

I have many problems with the Church, but they are alot of good people in the Church,m as well as the nasty ones. I try to never forget that, even as hard as that can be, sometimes.

[xchrom]

25. they have to support the hierarchy.

it's the principle of obedience.

[LostinVA]

36. No, they are not all anti-gay

Som,e even signed a letter of support for gay rights not that long ago. I taught CCD for years, and God's Law comes before Man's Law. ie conscience before dogma.

I refuse to label every US Bishop a homophobe.

[xchrom]

44. then let them resign!

let them put themselves on the line -- there is a purge going on in the church.

if there are those who support gay people -- let's see some very decisive action.

[cap]

61. we're not all obedient...

:)

Dont have to support the hierarchy blindly. There's a long tradition of anticlericalism in many European countries for precisely the reasons you are bringing up. The church oversteps itself.

[cap]

62. please remember a lot of the bluest and most liberal states

are heavily Catholic: New York, MA, RI... We are voting liberal positions in spite of the clergy. A lot of Catholics supported their legislators in MA who voted for gay marriage.

[adigal]

71. I have to say, I don't agree with much of what

you are saying, your "Nazi as pope" line made me laugh pretty hard.

I was thinking that, too, when I heard our new Pope was in the Hitler Youth. Of course, immediately the talking heads started spouting that he was forced, just a kid, blah, blah, blah. I don't believe it. But I am glad the bishops, who were saying a vote for Kerry last year was a sin, are focusing on the poor.

[saigon68]

37. catholic bishops allowed priests to continuously sodomize young BOYS

And the church has paid hundreds of millions to the victims for the bishops CRIMES

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. That's why they lost me

[Che_Nuevara]

42. Yeah not all of them ...

there have to be a FEW good ones left, no?

[saigon68]

56. Yes. I know of one

[Lefty48197]

85. so you're saying they have a pro-gay agenda

this thread is really getting good :popcorn:

[area51]

7. sweet. (n/t)

[bklyncowgirl]

8. The Catholics--sometimes you love'em sometimes you hate'em

If they'd just get over that ridiculous obsession with sex, I could consider going back to that church.

Unfortunately, their hardline anti-birth control position is so morally indefensible--not to mention their coverup of the pederist priests--that I'm still proud to call myself an estranged Catholic.

[Rich Hunt]

34. who are you calling 'you'?

I love this assumption that no one who reads this board is Catholic or was born Catholic.

It's the old 'between you and me' trick, the 'just pretend they're not their trick'.

We Irish know this well. It's the old Anglo-Saxon 'let's pretend they don't exist' game.

There is fair and reasoned criticism of a church's doctrine....and then there is seizing the opportunity to express one's contempt for the Catholics that is endemic to certain cultures.

Catholics have always formed a significant part of the urban Democratic base. Always. Some people - some people who used to be very powerful but who are quite violently bitter about their decline - are well aware of this and always have been. The official church position on issues such as poverty, labor rights and war is at odds with their nasty patrician anti-Democratic agenda. We know this history - others either don't know it out of irresponsibility, or pretend they don't know it out of treachery.

[bklyncowgirl]

52. That was a generic you and I was speaking for myself.

I agree with the Church on a great many issues--such as the one this thread was originally talking about--and I disagree with it on others--generally anything remotely having to do with sex.

I don't see how that feeds into some sort of anti-Catholic agenda.

The progressive Catholic tradition is why I still call myself a Catholic and haven't converted to another faith or officially proclaimed myself an agnostic.

[mmonk]

11. too late

[AzDar]

12. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, no? n/t

[Jersey Ginny]

15. Signs of division are good.

I don't respect the catholic church but I don't want the repukes to be their party either.

[rodeodance]

19. The Bishops are right on about this issue.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. Gee, didn't they get the memo?

Catholics are only supposed to talk about abortion, homosexuality, and contraception.

They're not welcome when the subject is helping the poor, war, death penalty, or evolution.

(For the comprehension-impaired: :sarcasm:)

[CatholicEdHead]

51. Actually, talk to a certian segment of Catholics and it is not sarcasm

That is REALLY ALL they talk about. Abortion, homosexuality, and Contraception. I know a few around my town and state. I also know they have a big internet presence. Any time social justice gets mentioned, many come back with the boilerplate "socialism" kneejerk response.

What I see generally speaking is abortion, homosexuality, and contraception tend to be a the big issues for those who focus their church lives around the church ceremony itself. Those that have a good presense in real life do tend to focus on more of the Catholic Social Justice issues.

[LostinVA]

21. Now, THAT'S the Church I grew up with!

Social justice. Good for you, Your Grace.

[Stockholm]

23. Communists or true Christian values???

I can hear the RW heads popping - universal health care a basic human right?

[0rganism]

32. Where Catholics and Fundies part ways...

Fundies: Poverty and disease are signs of God's displeasure visited upon the irresponsible sinners; if you were really an upright person you'd be a millionaire like Pat Robertson and health care wouldn't be an issue.

Catholics: God may want you to be poor, but he doesn't want you to be too sick to tithe.

[knitter4democracy]

39. I hope they mean it for their teachers.

The health insurance when I taught in the Catholic schools in Cleveland was pretty bad. At least we had some coverage, but it had huge co-pays and only paid half for a prescription. That, and it wouldn't pay a single dime for anything that, even accidentally or to save my life, would cause infertility.

Of course, the low pay is a whole other issue. Thank God we didn't have our kids then, because we would've qualified for food stamps on my pay.

[VegasWolf]

41. Even the conservative Bush Jesus freaks should agree with this. It

is immoral to let people suffer without health care.

[NuttyFluffers]

47. godless commies! bleeding heart secular humanists!

oh shit, they're bishops... uh-oh, i feel haed explodey coming on...
:nuke:

and this has been another installment of freeptard theater! thank you, thank you! :7

[Wordie]

48. :::clap, clap, clap:::

Whatever the other issues may be, they should be applauded for this statement:

"The lack of access to affordable health care for so many children and adults in our country and in Kentucky is a structural injustice that harms people and undermines the common good," said the statement.

[DeadManInc]

49. He can bitch all he wants, but I would bet he

voted for the that piece of shit Bush.

[jamesinca]

50. There was something similar before the election

I saw this on the Soujourners website a few months before the election last year. The Catholics have always held this view and I think the title of the article "Life does not end at birth" is very appropriate. It is a must read, especially for screwed up fundamentalist and other right wing "christians"

Life Does Not End at Birth
A Catholic moral framework does not easily fit the ideologies of "right" or "left," nor the platforms of any party.... Our responsibility is to measure all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person, whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good.
- from "Faithful Citizenship," issued by the United States Catholic Bishops.

It is a common misperception of politicians seeking office that the Catholic vote can be courted by addressing a narrow range of issues. In reality, the great majority of Catholics in the U.S., in agreement with the U.S. Catholic Bishops, will vote for candidates based "on the full range of issues, as well as on personal integrity, philosophy, and performance" (Faithful Citizenship, U.S. Catholic Bishops, 2004).

Members of the media - and indeed a few of our own religious leaders - do a great disservice to our church and nation when they attempt to use one or another issue as the benchmark for Catholic identity. "The Christian faith is an integral unity, and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church's social doctrine does not exhaust one's responsibility toward the common good" (Doctrinal Note on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, November 24, 2002, and approved by the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II).

The Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred. A candidate for office must understand that the Church stands against any policy or course of action that diminishes life, dignity or the rights of the human person: abortion, capital punishment, war, scandalous poverty, denial of healthcare, mistreatment of immigrants and racism , to name but a few. (Notice how the repugs are more anti-christian with their policies than any other party)

There are 60 million Catholics in the U.S. We take the responsibility of voting seriously. Each of us will evaluate candidates based on what our conscience - formed by reading the signs of the times in light of the example of Jesus in the Scriptures and the teachings of our Church throughout the ages - demands. We will examine the broad range of issues, measuring "all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person, whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good" (Faithful Citizenship, U.S. Catholic Bishops, 2004).

[MichiganVote]

59. The catholic church does not practice its 'preach'

"The Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred. A candidate for office must understand that the Church stands against any policy or course of action that diminishes life, dignity or the rights of the human person: abortion, capital punishment, war, scandalous poverty, denial of healthcare, mistreatment of immigrants and racism , to name but a few."

All nice, unless you've been molested by one of their own. Then, you're not respected, the priest's life may be sacred but not yours and the church will take any course of action to shut you up. Those are the facts and they are the same facts that have been revealed throughout this country and others.

Moral high ground? Hardly.

[Bridget Burke]

60. You're speaking about a minority in the Church.

There's no excuse for the handling of molestation, but not all Catholics--even bishops--took part in the cover up.

At least, nowadays, the parents of any child molested knows to go straight to the police. Filing criminal charges is the only way to take criminals off the street. Of course, there's no payoff.

[MichiganVote]

67. That's a pointless excuse and you know it. If an entire body of Bishops

have to hold successive councils, during which no Bishop who was culpable of shielding priests from exposure was censured by ANY other Bishop, then the catholic church elite do in fact stand for their nefarious practices. Not "all" catholics could have taken part in the shuffling of priests by Bishops but ALL Catholic children, and by extension their families, were and are at risk.

To make the claim that "nowadays, the parents of any child molested knows to go straight to the police" clearly indicates that your knowledge of this issue is as limited as that supposedly simple solution to a diabolical and disasterous problem. Be that as it may, the catholic church hierarchy will now and into the forseeable future, be unable to take the moral high ground among anyone with common sense.

BTW, the cover up is not over, wait and see.

[Bridget Burke]

69. So--parents still keep molestation hushed up?

Would any caring parent be stupid enough to complain only to the Church & expect the molester to be punished? The Church hasn't had dungeons for a couple of centuries now. For those who believe that child molestation is a crime, rather than a nasty secret that indicates the child might be guilty, too, the secular authorities are the ones to contact.

The old pattern of keeping the whole thing hushed up & making the child forget what happened did not work. Of course, it has proven to be lucrative for some.

[MichiganVote]

75. Cover up's work for those who have a vested interest

Unless or until the mind set of the clerics change---nothing will change w/in the catholic church.

I don't expect to live long enough.

I applaud the efforts of those who have held the church accountable however, and there are many more victims of these crimes who have done that, than those among the pews.

[jamesinca]

66. The Catholic church has made mistakes in the past

The last time they ran the world, it was called the dark ages. They did not handel the molestation thing to well either. I am glad to see that they are coming out and saying things like this though. I know many Catholics that have changed to "decline to state" from Dem because they have it in their head that the repugs are the ones pushing the morality. So I think it can serve all of us well if the Catholics get back to practicing what they preach and telling people ways to apply those teachings in accordance with the Bible.

[MichiganVote]

68. Molestation is not a "mistake" and neither is covering it up.

These are crimes, these are sins, and these are reprehensible acts. And you don't need a Bible to figure that out. And btw, all humans, including all political party memebers are welcome to practice what they preach. So what?

The reason the catholic church wants universal health ins. is b/c they have huge $$ invested in health care enterprises in this country. Its a money issue to the church. Do some research if you want verification.

[drhilarius]

57. Finally, the Catholic church says something I can get behind. nt

[DaveColorado]

58. They might know that Roe is toast with Alito +1

So they are starting to focus on issues that they once did again.

Like you know, stuff Jesus said to do. That stuff.

[AX10]

63. Between the sex abuse scandals and the Church's support for *...

I decided to leave. I have no business being with these crapbags. I don't really care about their "opinions". When it comes to election time, the Bishops will be out in force for the GOP/"pro-life", anti-gay mob.

[adigal]

70. We Catholics cannot figure out when we vote

for republicans who want to ban gay marriage, abortions, we also get people who want to ban food and housing for the poor, and college loans to help bring people up from the circumstances into which they were born.

I am losing patience with this disconnect.

[lynne]

79. Rather ironic and a bit humorous -

- to find the words "Catholic Bishop" and "moral right" in the same sentence. They used up all their authority on anything moral when they turned a blind eye to the abuse of boys.

[sarcasmo]

84. Keep voting for the so called moral Repuke party and watch how

few of us wind up with health care.