Navy to Expand Fleet With New Enemies in Mind

[Rose Siding]

The Navy wants to increase its fleet to 313 ships by 2020, reversing years of decline in naval shipbuilding and adding dozens of warships designed to defeat emerging adversaries, senior Defense Department officials say.
....
While increasing the fleet size is popular with influential members of Congress, the plan faces various obstacles, including questions about whether it is affordable in light of ballooning shipbuilding costs and whether the mix of vessels is suitable to deal with emerging threats, like China's expanding navy.

"We are at a crisis in shipbuilding," a senior Navy official said. "If we don't start building this up next year and the next year and the next year, we won't have the force we need." The officials would not agree to be identified because the plan had not been made public or described to members of Congress.
....
Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine, which is home to major shipyards, endorsed the Navy proposal when told about it recently and called on President Bush to finance it in next year's budget.

"Military requirements should drive the budget, not the other way around," Ms. Collins said........

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/05/national/05navy.html?hp&ex=1133758800&en=bf8d4aea7ccd1976&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Pavulon]

1. Good for Bath Iron Works(NT)

[mbperrin]

17. For sure good for the Carlyle Group!

U.S. Shipbuilders: The Tide Begins To Turn

By LOREN B. THOMPSON

Loren Thompson is chief operating officer of the Lexington Institute and teaches in Georgetown University's National Security Studies Program.

http://www.navyleague.org/seapower/us_shipbuilders_the_tide_begins_.htm

<snip to down the article>...

B. Edward Ewing, chief executive officer of U.S. Ship Repair and Maintenance, the nation's largest dedicated ship repair, modernization, and conversion company. Ewing has partnered with a Washington, D.C.-based investment firm, The Carlyle Group, to merge several major repair yards into a $400 million national consortium that will challenge the traditional way of doing business.

"I view myself as a value creator," says Ewing. "What I'm trying to do in this business is advance the idea of full-service strategic shipyards that are not limited to a narrow range of services or ship types." Ewing contends that the big six shipyards are excessively specialized in terms of the spectrum of services they provide and ships they produce. He plans to participate vigorously in future industry consolidation, with the aim of redefining the industry's culture and market focus.

Executives at the big six yards say they are more bemused than threatened by this strategy. They argue that the industry's current structure is dictated by economic, technological, and political forces that make a different approach either impractical or unprofitable. They expect the big six yards to receive the lion's share of ship design,<snip and more article to follow>


Little doubt in my mind that the Big Six may be "bemused", but when it comes to delivering the bucks, my bucks are on Daddy Bush, James Baker, Frank Carlucci, and all the rest of the gang!
http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html

Doesn't take a crystal ball, do it?

[leesa]

18. You can't think of anything else to make but war toys?

[Pavulon]

27. That contract will Keep the town of Bath, ME employed(NT)

[madrchsod]

2. ?

i`ve been reading about this problem for over year and what they want and who will build the ships and their components once again the new york times is a day late and a dollar short

[Hyernel]

3. The military industrial complex...

...has no shame.

No human endeavor is more profitable than war.

[Psephos]

6. Drugs run a close second n/t

[MADem]

10. Ships are different, though

They are a very large investment with a long, long payback. And keel laying to launch is a long road. They stay in service for decades. They have a "show the flag" role, an intimidation role, and a humanitarian role, as well as a wartime mission. They are effective ambassadors in many situations.

And any new ship built will have "smart ship" technology, which greatly reduces crew size.

Finally, we need to keep our shipbuilding capability alive. We are a long, long way from Reagan's "600 Ship Navy" vision. I thought that was excessive, frankly, but the numbers we have now make global coverage rather thin, and overstretch us in a conflict scenario.

[Psephos]

24. All good points n/t

[Pavulon]

16. Union jobs in Maine and Mississippi(NT)

[tocqueville]

4. swiftboats in the "Kerry" class ? n/t

[0007]

5. The fucking arms race is on again. 0h my fucking God!

[Captain Hilts]

19. The Chinese started it, we're just responding.

The Russians have also recently built some high tech - and some lower tech - submarines.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

7. Ummm... whose navy is a threat to ours? The Syrians? I guess we need

several aircraft carrier groups to counter all the aircraft carriers and subs that they and the Iranians have... :shrug:

[chicagiana]

8. Dealing with China ????

I wasn't aware it took a Battleship to sink a cargo-ship laden with shit for Wal-Mart. THAT is the threat of China.

If you want to protect Taiwan, arm them to the teeth with missles. If we're serious about countering the rise of China as a fascist aggresor in SE Asia, we will push Japan to re-arm.

[daleo]

9. Why stop at 313?

The Thousand Ship Navy is a cool slogan. I am sure there is no shortage of foreign lenders willing to help drive the U.S. to bankruptcy through these bloated military budgets.

[ugarte]

11. How about a ship in every garage?

Otherwise I feel vulnerable.

[wakeme2008]

12. I will defend the Navy on this

for years the Navy has been forced to take new ships out of a Miss. shipbuilding yard, that it did not want or need. So I think congress should look at the REAL needs of the Navy not the needs of the states with shipbuilding yards.

[truthisfreedom]

13. where did all the money go? what about all of those trillions we dumped

into the military for years? 330 ships? WE SHOULD HAVE 10,000 BY NOW!

[Spinzonner]

14. Have they solved the vulnerability from exocet-like missiles ?

Like the ones the Iranians could decimate ships in the Gulf with.

Sounds like a lot of money to build a lot of sailing ducks.

[Pavulon]

15. Yep

The phalanx gun, which worked, has another layer of protection. Missile intercepting missiles. Sidewinder based I think.

Anyway allows the ship to kill the missile further out.

Fixed position missiles (coastal battery) probably wouldn't last real long in a real shooting war. Navy ships would not be the only force working in the gulf in the event of an open war.

High paying Union jobs is the real benefit from this..

[IndianaGreen]

20. These are plans for an imperial navy to enforce gunboat diplomacy

"This is not a fleet that is being oriented to the Chinese threat," said Loren Thompson, an analyst at the Lexington Institute, a policy research center in Arlington, Va. "It's being oriented around irregular warfare, stability operations and dealing with rogue states."

By "rogue states" the capitalists mean those countries whose population choose a path other than that of slaves of Wall Street. This is nothing more than plans for an imperial navy to enforce gunboat diplomacy.

As long as our shipyards are busy, why should we care that the ships they build are used to murder and oppress people in Latin America and elsewhere? We should care because a permanent military and a large armaments industry are a threat to our liberties at home and to peace throughout the world.

President Eisenhower warned of the dangers to our democracy posed by the military-industrial complex in his Farewell Address to the nation:

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/speeches/eisenhower001.htm

[400Years]

21. IG is right about this

[daleo]

22. Yes, that's the plain truth of it.

That was the main part of the Royal Navy's function during the British Empire, and now it is the main part of the U.S. Navy's function.

[Javaman]

23. here's some outside the box thinking, hold on to your hats...

Maybe just maybe, we put that same money into feeding the world and helping the poorer countries rather than throwing lead and steel at them, the world would actually improve and we would actually get our reputation back...but hey, call me crazy.

colossal racist failure*

[nomatrix]

25. Oh Ya, we'll finance it here but we won't build it here

I love they way they framed the article
"Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine, which is home to major shipyards, endorsed the Navy proposal when told about it recently and called on President Bush to finance it in next year's budget."

Smoke and mirrors. They'll build it in Korea.

[TheWraith]

26. Is there really much of a point in a conventional Navy anymore?

I'm serious. Aircraft can provide many of the functions that a Navy used to: transport, pinpoint deployment, bombing support, cruise missile deployment, etcetera. Plus, airpower is more flexible, and capable of doing more things at once than a naval group is, and with greater precision.

Do we really need much more than aircraft carriers and their support ships at this point?

[bpilgrim]

29. Global Capability Platform

peace

[Clara T]

28. Navy to Expand Fleet With New Enemies in Mind

December 5, 2005

Navy to Expand Fleet With New Enemies in Mind

By DAVID S. CLOUD


WASHINGTON, Dec. 3 - The Navy wants to increase its fleet to 313 ships by 2020, reversing years of decline in naval shipbuilding and adding dozens of warships designed to defeat emerging adversaries, senior Defense Department officials say.

The plan by Adm. Michael G. Mullen, who took over as chief of naval operations last summer, envisions a major shipbuilding program that would increase the 281-ship fleet by 32 vessels and cost more than $13 billion a year, $3 billion more than the current shipbuilding budget, the officials said Friday.

While increasing the fleet size is popular with influential members of Congress, the plan faces various obstacles, including questions about whether it is affordable in light of ballooning shipbuilding costs and whether the mix of vessels is suitable to deal with emerging threats, like China's expanding navy.

"We are at a crisis in shipbuilding," a senior Navy official said. "If we don't start building this up next year and the next year and the next year, we won't have the force we need." The officials would not agree to be identified because the plan had not been made public or described to members of Congress.


http://www.majority.com/news/navy-expand.html

[ktlyon]

30. Who are these "emerging adversaries"?

China? Who else?

More scare tactics, be afraid

Be afraid of what they have planned.