Teen stands up for right to sit during pledge

[rainbow4321]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-pledgedog_04nat.ART.State.Edition1.3de95ef.html

Standing 5 feet tall in checkered Vans, 14-year-old Theodore Pugh is an unimposing First Amendment warrior. But the freshman at Leonardtown High School in St. Mary's County, Md., with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland and his principal, taught his teachers a lesson in free speech and reinforced his right to abstain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at school.

Theodore became upset this year when, he said, a friend in his homeroom was "reprimanded" by the teacher for remaining seated during the pledge. The teacher, according to Theodore, said that she had a brother in the military and that it was disrespectful to his sacrifice not to stand.

<snip>

So the ACLU contacted school system superintendents in every county in Maryland, as well as the state Department of Education. After receiving a letter from the ACLU, Leonardtown High School Principal Scott Smith said he wanted to make sure the rules were clear to teachers.

Staff members lobbed several questions at Mr. Smith:
"Why can we not respectfully ask them to leave the room?"
What if the sitting starts to "spread to other kids and create a rebellion?"
"Can we tell them how we feel?"

[Canuckistanian]

1. Ask them one simple question

"Is it mandatory to recite the Pledge?"

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Supreme Court protected Jehovah's Witness students from reciting the

Pledge in Barnette:

The US Supreme Court has made two historical decisions about the laws of the states involving mandated pledge rituals in the public school. In a June 3, 1940, Minersville School District v. Gobitis decision, it ruled that a local school board could expel students who refused to recite the Pledge. Over the next two years a wave of anti-Jehovah's Witness hysteria developed because the members of this religious group refused to recite the Pledge. For example, in Kennebunk, Maine, the local citizens sacked and burned a Jehovah's Witness Hall. The Jehovah's Witnesses believed that saluting the Flag and reciting the Pledge were forbidden by the Bible (see Chapter 20 in Exodus).

In 1943 the Supreme Court reversed this ruling in the West Virginia State Board of Education et alv. Barnette decision. It said that State departments of education and local school boards could mandate the form of patriotism in the classroom but could not require the students to recite the Pledge.

http://pledgeqanda.com/

I believe one could argue that the Barnette decision can be extended for nonreligious reasons for not standing for the Pledge.

[Canuckistanian]

7. Looks like a precedent to me

The judgement doesn't give a reason for exempting students, it only says that the state can't compel students to say it.

So, it should apply in this case.

[Maddy McCall]

2. Is this our kid DUer who refused to stand for the pledge?

[Idioteque]

4. No...that would be me. :P

It's really nice to know that I'm not alone.

[keopeli]

12. That must have been tough. I hope all is well.

Reality Americans know that you can't FORCE someone to recite the pledge or stand. Whetever your reasons were, I hope you didn't meet with bad consequences from your teachers or peers.

[Lautremont]

3. "What if it spreads and creates a rebellion?"

Oh, the horror.

[Selatius]

10. What a disgusting question

If that many students were dissatisfied, then suppressing it by forcing them to pledge allegiance won't address the underlying dissatisfaction they feel.

[saigon68]

22. THEY (THE SCHOOLS) WILL SEND IN THE TROOPS

TO KICK THEIR (the students) CANDY ASSES

[FARAFIELD]

32. minor point

This picture is from Schindlers list, not a real photo of Nazis. Just felt the attribution should be made, although if you photshopped cheneys face over ralph finnes, that would be something.

[BlueJazz]

6. (Again)..You VILL stand for der Flag or Vee vill cut off your Vieners!

...Gee..I always thought Patriotism was from the heart..

[powwowdancer]

9. nah

Patriotism, (being the last refuge of scoundrels), has now been incontrovertibly proven to come from the spleen or a spastic colon, and then, only in lower primates and republicans.

:dem:
powwowdancer out

[Robb]

37. Patriotism is

...Just don't confuse it with nationalism. ;)

[bluestateguy]

8. A 1943 Supreme Court decision allows him to not participate

And by remaining seated he is not disrupting anybody.

[Peregrine]

11. I've told my students

that they do not have to recite the pledge, nor do they have to stand, but if they are not reciting the pledge they must be quiet. About 2/3 of my students do not stand. Florida actually has a parental notification requirement that I dutifully ignore. The state also mandates the size of the flag in the classroom, which my principal has ignored (only because it would cost $$).

[sonicx]

14. "Florida actually has a parental notification requirement "

Parents have to be notified if their child doesn't stand?

[WindRavenX]

24. what the shit?

If that's the case, holy crap, send in the brown shirts! :wtf:

[LiberalFighter]

18. Exactly!!!

Why should funds be expended for flags when it would be better used for direct educational purposes?

It should be enough to have a flag at the front of the building, the gymnasium and the football stadium. Classrooms can just face the direction of the flag in the front of the building.

I wonder how many of these new flags are made in China?

[Robb]

38. Brief OT story

This reminded me of the time my mother thought she would "den mother" for my cub scout troop, or pack, or whatever it was (I lasted about five weeks). Pledge time rolled around, but no flag in the house; mom's brain kicks into high gear, and comes out with a little U.S. flag toothpick, leftover from the 4th.

We all pledged allegiance to that toothpick, by god. ;)

[meganmonkey]

39. Bwa ha ha ha!

:rofl:

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY TOOTHPICK!

Thanks for the Monday morning laugh :)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Our men and women fight

so that we don't have to pledge allegience to anyone, at any time. No bowing to kings and queens, either.

We can sit or stand when we choose, and we can burn our flag.

Don't tread on us!

[rainbow4321]

15. Wonder if the teachers think chimp's "No WMD's here"/furniture

video is disrepectful...including the teacher who has the relative in the military. IMO, it's a hell of a lot more disgusting and disrespectful than anything these students could do.
Someone needs to bring that chimp video back to the MSM <yeah, dream on, I know>...split screen with recent video that CNN showed of the bomb going off next to the tank/soldiers.

[noamnety]

16. Do public school teachers have to stand?

(Not that it's an issue, our school never did it in the classrooms, and mysteriously forgot that it used to do the pledge at assemblies. I think now it only happens at board meetings.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. It's a law in MO

that the kids say it at least weekly at school. I don't think the law says they have to stand; we do have quite a few Jehova's Witnesses here.

[LiberalFighter]

19. How about all of the students convert to Jehovah Witness during school?

And then convert back to their other religion when they leave the school grounds?

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. They would never go for that

That whole no birthday thing would definitely turn them off.

[Solon]

26. I don't know about your specific area...

But during my Elementary School years(the 80s), we said the pledge at least once a week, probably more. Then by Middle and High school we stopped saying it all together, and I graduated back in '96. BTW: I grew up in the St. Charles Area, my three schools I went to, from Elementary to High School, sat on one bigassed property, you could walk from one to another easily enough. So the question is, is this a recent law, or is it simply not enforced anymore?

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Yes it is a fairly new law

passed within the last two or three years.

I am in KC.

[Solon]

29. Well as long as that damned ID bill fails(again)...

We still aren't as insane as Kansas, our only claim to fame.

[Strong Atheist]

36. We do in Virginia. A moment of

silence, too. I say all of the pledge, except the "under god" part. Only two people have noticed and said anything in the past five years ...

[K-W]

21. What if other young students choose to exercise thier rights. OH NO!

The world would crumble.

[wellstone dem]

23. Ah yes, takes me back to high school during the early 70's

VN war was on, and I sat during the pledge of allegiance, the Vice Principal came up to me and said, "STAND!!!" I replied, "I will stand when I have the freedom to sit."

Of course she could have really turned the tables on me by then saying, "SIT!!!" but she was too mad to think of that.

No consequences as far as I know, but if she had called my parents they wouldn't have done anything about it, but wouldn't have told me either. They only got mad at me once, when a bunch of kids were not welcoming to a new student. THAT I got in trouble for, as I should have.

[VegasWolf]

25. Exactly! It is not your Pledge when you have to invoke a god. Good

for them.

:bounce:

[Lori Price CLG]

27. Starts to "spread to other kids and create a rebellion..." Good.

Actually, I hope it starts a f*cking revolution.

Cheers,
Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

[Seabiscuit]

30. Fuck and Fire any teacher that doesn't understand the 1st Amendment!

[CreekDog]

31. What he did is very American and Patriotic

I'd much prefer to pledge allegiance to a flag that gives me the choice to do so, than one that compels me by force.

[Solly Mack]

33. I stopped reciting the pledge in 3rd grade

no harm, no foul. Teacher accepted it - like she had a choice or voice in the matter. lol
Parents didn't care. I didn't much care what my "peers" thought..

No one should be forced to recite the pledge. It's only purpose is indoctrination. I ask myself - if America is all that - or any country for that matter - then why the need to indoctrinate? If a country was all good and great and wonderful and the best, then there is no need to attempt to force feelings of loyalty - a person would be loyal to a country and it's government that was honest, truthful,fair, just, equal, free... because it's actions, it's history would reflect those things .... and that's why "patriotic" indoctrination starts so young - so it can take hold before you start realising something's just not right - that you've been lied to....as you get older you see behind the red, white and blue curtain...but that ingrained "belief" that's been hammered into you since you were very young still lingers.

[0007]

34. So much for rules

[Guaranteed]

35. Already at the top, but I'll kick this. nt