US distances soldiers from secret Baghdad prison

[Judi Lynn]

Last Update: Wednesday, November 16, 2005. 12:12pm (AEDT)
US distances soldiers from secret Baghdad prison

The United States Government says it does not believe American soldiers were involved in the Iraqi prison where more than 170 detainees were found starving and mistreated.

US troops took control of an Interior Ministry building in Baghdad on the weekend and found the traumatised prisoners inside.

Investigations into the abuse have started, but US State Department spokesman Adam Ereli says the prison was controlled by Iraqi forces not Americans.

"There's no issue of American involvement in this. Were there to be, then obviously our procedures and regulations would apply," he said.
(snip/...)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1507903.htm

[SoFlaJet]

1. yea OK

man I wish that were true but I KNOW better-this one is gonna be big folks.Auschwitz like conditions and prisoners.When this one hits it's going to be like a tsunami

[caelestissurf]

7. One quick question

I am a veteran of Iraq and I was in Intel, I know where this prison is and can tell you truthfully American soldiers never went near the place. It wasn't one of our AO's and was garrisoned by Iraqis for a while now. I know there are bad apples among my brothers and sisters in arms, but without proof we were there and with a vet telling you that we never went near this place, does that sway you at all from what looks like to this newbie a knee jerk reaction.

BTW there are very few prisions this could be, the name of the Iraqi govt. official that broke this story tells me all I need to know about exactly which prision it was and who was working there. I'd bet money even the SOF guys never went near this place. It was their little kingdom and one we avoided.

[jmatthan]

9. You Broke IT, You Own IT

And that means the RESPONSIBILITY as well.

Just accepting responsibility for all the good things that happen in Iraq (if there is any such thing) just will not fly.

[caelestissurf]

10. Isn't that

a rightwing talking point. Iraq is not pottery barn

[Roland99]

17. Powell used it, Kerry used it. And it's true. The U.S. broke Iraq.

The stability that was there is gone.

How many car bombs and IEDs were going off daily in Iraq before the U.S. invaded?

How many women were forced to wear burqas before the U.S. invaded?

How many children were kidnapped on their way to school before the U.S. invaded?

How many schools were attacked before the U.S. invaded?

How many western-style businesses (liquor, etc.) were shot up or bombed before the U.S. invaded?

Were at least 15,000 people killed each year for simply living their daily existence before the U.S. invaded?

[BeyondGeography]

11. It is indeed "their little kingdom"

It would have been nice if our government had understood exactly what that meant before it cavalierly decided that everything would just come up roses if we just rolled our military into Baghdad and toppled Saddam.

At this point, it doesn't really matter who is doing the torturing, does it? All we've done is replace one form of suffering with another. Whether the pain is being inflicted directly by our soldiers our by newly empowered Shiite police doesn't make our hands any cleaner.

That said, I'm glad you're safely back from Iraq. Welcome to DU, caelestissurf.

[daleo]

13. Did you stake this place out, and watch it continuously?

Because if you didn't, you couldn't really be sure.

[anotherdrew]

14. so why did we go in there now?

did someone lower down, a captain perhaps, decide to go do an "inspection" to blow this wide open or did the order to go in come from upper ranks?

[SoFlaJet]

16. God do I hope you're right

because I hate the thought that this kind of stuff is being done under OUR watch and in OUR name.I wouldn't blame soldiers if it was-like Abu G(however they spell it)these people were getting their orders from above but took the blame-very unfair

[bahrbearian]

2. We are Occupiers ,, its under our watch,, our money,, our blood

[FlemingsGhost]

3. But torture is now the applicable "procedures and regulations."

I call bullshit. This smacks of a smokescreen PR job, a la Jessica Lynch, the toppling of Sadaam's statue, etc.

[Akoto]

4. Key words: "does not believe". n/t

[CoffeeCat]

5. Oh sure...

We've got the tanks and the weapons over there--and we're running the show.

We're training the Iraqis and we own Iraq.

However, there's one prison that was totally an Iraqi thing. No US soldier or military leader knew anything about this secret prison.

Oh please.

Let's hope to God that the people who were in that prison will tell us all the truth.

It's just sickening---horribly offensive--what we are doing over there.

I don't want this to be true, but it's obvious that with the BushCo thugs at the helm--that stuff like this will happen.

It makes me sick.

I really hope this story does not die in a few days. This is so serious. We need all of this stopped at once. Iraq sounds like some kind of evil playground where there is no accountability and America operates under no laws or restrictions.

That's asking for concentration-camp like circumstances, torture and heinous crimes against humanity.

[caelestissurf]

8. Actually

That's exactly how it goes. :)

EDIT: There are whole regions of Iraq that coalition forces do not go into, not because we are afraid or unable to, but because the Iraqis are in control of those areas. American forces are concetrated in 25% of the country, where the insurgency rages, the Iraqi army has been taking over more and more territory and we have not been going back. When I was there we turned over two FOBs that I was living on to the Iraqis and never went back. The fact that they have their own prisons is illustrative of their expanding control. They are still our puppets, but saying that they have no areas exclusively under their control is wrong as wrong can be.

[jmatthan]

20. THE MINISTRY OF INTERIOR BUILDING?

Or is it only the Petroleum Ministry in the control of the American forces?

[colinmom71]

15. It won't die out anytime soon...

CNN has obtained exclusive video footage from this Iraqi controlled prison. As I understand, we should expect it to air this morning as the lead-in story during either CNN Daybreak or American Morning.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. Oh, sure.

They got seven guys who will just *SWEAR* they were playing poker.

Funny how no sane person believes a thing they say any longer.

[daleo]

12. Essentially he is saying:

"Americans weren't involved in this torture. But if they were, it obviously wouldn't be torture anymore."

[DemoTex]

18. It wasn't a prison, it was a "rendering" plant.

AKA, an abattoir. Who does Bu$hco think they're kidding? If they didn't run it, they damn sure knew about it.

[saigon68]

23. Some one knew about it

The CIA for sure

And probably military intelligence.

Nothing passes their noses without being accounted for

Hell Zarqawi could have been running the place, and you know that ain't gonna happen

[zann725]

19. I saw the "coverage," and it reeked of "spin." Particularly considering

recent Nightline containing first-hand testimony about prior innocent Detainees now suing U.S. Govt re: excessive torture and abuse of non-criminal "mistaken" detainees, including threat of turning them over to lions to be eatent. And the recent disclosure of many hidden U.S. torture prisons worldwide. And suddenly this U.S. "find"...a new prison found and explored by U.S. JUST because a young Iraqui boy said someone he knew disappeared there??? Now the Army is appalled, and go in as the "good guys" to stop such abuse, which of course they'd never do.

This reeks of 'spin.' But will no doubt fool some sheeple.

[Barrett808]

21. We returned the torturers in last year's Interior Ministry raid

Several US troops spoke out about torture at the Interior Ministry, but we just put the torturers right back in place.

<Sigh./>

[cantstandbush]

22. You would think the press and Bush would be making as much out of this

as they did the "incubator babies" which was, in fact, a lie but hyped like it was the the gospel truth.

[leftchick]

24. This is utter crap! It is 100% an American Operation!

And We Pay For It!! :grr:

<snip>

Although the US forces had ridden to the rescue on this occasion, many of these units have been created, trained and armed by the Americans. According to reports, $3bn (£1.7bn) out of an $87bn Iraq appropriation that Congress approved last year was earmarked for the creation of paramilitary units to fight the insurgency. Vincent Cannistraro, the CIA's former head of counter-terrorism, said: "They set up little teams of Seals and special forces with teams of Iraqis, working with people who were in senior intelligence under the Saddam regime."

Iraqi politicians in the new regime have repeatedly accused the CIA of refusing to hand over control of the recreated Iraqi intelligence service to the Iraqi government, and the paramilitaries are run by Adnan Thabit, allegedly a former CIA "asset".


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article327331.ece

This whole article is well woth the reading. Ny favorite quote from an American official..

<snip>
You very seldom see American soldiers on the streets of Baghdad now. The Iraqi police are in evidence outside, but so are increasing numbers of militias running their own checkpoints - men in balaclavas or wrap-around sunglasses and headbands, with leather mittens and an array of weapons. An American official acknowledged: "It is getting more and more like Mogadishu every day."

[Beacho]

25. Maybe not U.S Forces

But I'll bet U.S. contractors have their hands all over this.

Sounds like Merc Scum ops to me.

[donkeyotay]

26. I'm trying to find out if Chalabi is involved in this

Found a link to a promising WAPO article, "new Ministry to Recruit Paramilitary Force in Iraq: Interior chief envisions using former special forces troops" by Daniel Williams, Sept 2, 2003, page 10.

But I can't get the article, can't find it any where. All I could find were references to it like:

September 01, 2003

New Ministry To Recruit Paramilitary Force in Iraq
WaPo: Iraq's newly appointed interior minister will recruit a paramilitary force composed of former Iraqi army special forces troops to pursue guerrillas, terrorists and saboteurs who are undermining the country's stability, officials said today.
The so-called Civil Defense Battalions are to come under the command of the Interior Ministry, which will operate under the tutelage of U.S. occupation authorities.

"The plan for the Interior Ministry envisages a total force of 70,000, including the Civil Defense forces, police, traffic police and border guards," said Ali Abdul Amir, a spokesman for the Iraqi National Accord, one of the many political parties with a presence on the Governing Council.
Posted by Nick @ 09/01/2003 10:34 PM | TrackBack


http://scoop.agonist.org/archives/007763.html

New Ministry To Recruit Paramilitary Force In Iraq
Interior Chief Envisions Using Former Special Forces Troops
(Washington Post, September 2, 2003, Pg. 10)
Iraq's newly appointed interior minister will recruit a paramilitary force composed of former Iraqi army special forces troops to pursue guerrillas, terrorists and saboteurs who are undermining the country's stability, officials said. The so-called Civil Defense Battalions are to come under the command of the Interior Ministry, which will operate under the tutelage of U.S. occupation authorities.

http://staging.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2178784&C=dfnebb&P=true

[Stockholm]

27. Wow classic Quintilianus defence

If I had murdered him it would have been justified, but the truth is that I did not murder him.

Sneaky sneaky

"There's no issue of American involvement in this. Were there to be, then obviously our procedures and regulations would apply,"