BREAKING: Kerry now believes the election was stolen. - Mark C. Miller

[Junkdrawer]

New York University professor and author Mark Crispin Miller says in an interview on Democracy Now!: “ told me he now thinks the election was stolen. He says he doesn't believe he is the person that can be out in front because of the sour grapes question. But he said he believes it was stolen. He says he argues with his democratic colleagues on the hill. He said he had a fight with Christopher Dodd because he said there's questions about the voting machines and Dodd was angry.”

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/04/1532222

Also see the GD thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104

[savemefromdumbya]

1. What happened to all the investigations on the 2004 election?

At one stage John Kerry's brother was looking into it. We'll just add it to the list of 'crimes' that Bush will go down for.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Last I heard they indicted two election officials from one

county for the recount shananigans and the law suit concerning the recount is still churning slowly along in Ohio.

Of course Ohioans have some good elections reforms on the Nov 8th ballot.

So stuff is happening it just takes way too much time...

[savemefromdumbya]

12. Pity noone is really highlighting this

[joeunderdog]

37. Maybe he didn't read my email til last week...(sigh.)

I'm still pissed that Kerry turtled on this issue JUST LIKE HE DID ON IRAQ. He had the info on the scam in both in cases and he thought the political atmosphere was too hostile to speak up. Pity the poor boy. Word is, Edwards was furious that Kerry chickened out. Kerry wouldn't even raise the issue of the reported improprieties against Dem voters in Ohio. He didn't have to cry "Fraud!" to SIMPLY RAISE THE ISSUES.

Yes there was deception in both cases (the war and the election), but in neither case was he fooled. Make no mistake about this.

Better late than never, I guess.

[suziedemocrat]

64. EXACTLY!!! This is a demonstration of the problem with the Democrats!

They second guess themselves and think about how things would work out POLITICALLY!!! They should follow their heart and do what's RIGHT!!! Absolutely NO Democrat should have voted for the Iraq war! It was clear - even to a nobody in the Midwest like me - that there was no reason to go to war with Iraq. Yet the Dems thought it was Political suicide to vote against giving Bush that power - so they went along in a wimpy way.

2004 was a clear Kerry win!!! I made calls for the local Democratic Party for Donations and people here in Indiana were complaining about Black Box Voting - Months Before the Election!!! How on Gods Green Earth can Senators act so surprised that the election was stolen - when average joe citizens knew all about the problems???

A stolen election is TREASON!!! It is the same as invading this country with force in my opinion!! It destroys democracy. If we can't count on our elected leaders to defend the most fundamental part of our Democratic Government - What are they good for??

I hope Dean can give the Democrats some balls!!! It looks like they are starting to finally shape up!! FINALLY!!!

I think Democrats were afraid to stand up for what is right because they underestimated the American Public. We are NOT all masturbating to Faux News!!! I think with the blogs - they might be getting a grip on the fact that American are smarter, better informed, and angrier than they thought.

I think we need a hero in the Democratic Party now. I thought Dean was the Hero - and maybe he is. But it could be Boxer or Conyers. No more overly politically cautious Democrats for me!!!

Having said that - Kerry would be a million times better than Bush of course - that goes without saying. And think how much better the world would be if Gore would have been sworn in in 2001!!

While I'm ranting - why when people (Politicians and Reporters) talk about the deaths in Iraq - do they only mention deaths of American Soldiers? Doesn't it matter how many Iraqis were killed? Do they not count?

And don't even get me started on why Kos had a hissy fit whenever someone questioned the validity of the election results last November. Ooooohhhhhh!!

[Straight Shooter]

2. Plink!

Another drop falls, in Chinese water torture fashion, on bush's head.

[lyonn]

3. Sour grapes be damned

Kerry has to speak out. What does he have to lose and so much to gain. Bottom line, our elections are being hijacked. Teresa knows this, per someone on this site yesterday, hell, this is a no brainer.

[Seedersandleechers]

4. No shit, Sherlock...

[lyonn]

24. Thank you KC

nt

[rurallib]

23. Amen. Kerry, show that courage you had as a young man.

[Orsino]

35. Amen. It was OUR election, not his.

He needn't speak out now just because * is currently a little vulnerable.

[Miss Chybil]

5. What happened to all the lawyers? nt

[budkin]

6. If Kerry would actually say something to the press about this

I might actually gain some respect back for him. The way he just rolled over and gave up really pissed me off after how much I believed in him. I hope this gets out somehow.

[maximovich]

7. GOOD!

More voices, the better.

[Junkdrawer]

8. DU EXCLUSIVE: Mark Crispin Miller on this news:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=399775&mesg_id=399790

[young_at_heart]

10. Outrage anyone?

If the masses don't care it doesn't matter, I guess.

[Neocondriac]

11. Just shut up John !!!!!

You failed to fight when the fight was on. Go the fuck away !......He also announced this week henow believes Barney Frank is gay!

[karynnj]

14. So you don't want him to talk about cleaning up elections,

because you are mad that he didn't waste the party's and his credibility last November, when there was no proof. (Even now it may be possible to prove only that elections CAN be stolen - and fix it now.)

[Neocondriac]

18. He clearly represents a failed Democratic effort.

He can rant and rave, but he has no stomach for it all.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

21. This was discussed ad nauseum last fall

many possible reasons and theories as to why he clammed up and backed down. NOBODY was totally happy about it and many were as mad as you. Go dig in the threads on this subject from last Nov-Jan for some interesting reading and well formed opinions that cover the whole spectrum of possibilities...

[Selteri]

46. He couldn't prove the election was stolen the day after

but he should have brought question into why it was that only democratic districts had problems iwth not enough voting machines and the statement just two days afterwards that some republican precints reported more than 100% of their voters reporting!


Kerry - You are a almost a year late - Go find a replacement I wouldn't want you as president even with proof you won if you're this kind of a pushover to a wimpy cowardly cheater with a big mouth.

[katty]

31. Kerry had his chance to fight-now this?! too little too late

[JoFerret]

53. Hey. Stop already

Until you walk in the shoes of those who go up against these people don't presume to know what they should do. Advise and support but do not condemn.

[Blaq Dem]

13. Let me guess: a brick fell on his head this morning

Duhhh!!!!!!!!!

[Demobrat]

15. So Kerry doesn't feel he can fight for our voting rights

because he's afraid of being accused of sour grapes. Coming from somebody who voted for the war because he was afraid of being called unpatriotic by Karl Rove, this is hardly a surprise. Political cowardice wins again.

[bpilgrim]

16. Better Late, then NEVER!

hope he starts to make some noise :bounce:

peace

[uppityperson]

17. Knock it off!!! Be glad that anyone is working this.

Get over it and get on with being glad that anyone and whomever is working on this. I'm glad that people are still working on election fraud, the more the merrier.

[shanti]

32. yeah, right

after "we the people" have been screwed over royally by the PNAC cabal, we should be grateful for a few crumbs?

[uppityperson]

41. Yeah, right.

Screwed? Yes. Crumbs? Perhaps. Sneer at at least crum but I'm glad to anyone to work on election fraud.

[iconoclastNYC]

19. It's like

There is some force working inside our party telling people to not pay attention to this issue. Maybe this force helped those people get to where they are utilizing some of the methods the GAO has confirmed are effective at stealing elections and so they are compromised.

The hard fact is voting reform is not going to come out of the DNC. We need to get this state by state, by voter initiatives and thru the grassroots.

[jamesinca]

27. Barbara Boxer stood up with the members of the House!

She received thousands of roses from supporters for that. There are members of congress that can be contacted that will do the correct thing. We just need to contact them.

[Misskittycat]

20. What about a DU activist project to bring Hill critters around to seeing

the light? Get in their faces with huge amounts of information that even a moron can understand. Identify a key staffer in each office who can be targeted as a point person on this issue, and who can be given information/ammunition.

[i miss america]

22. It took him a full year to figure it out???

:wtf:

[nolabels]

33. Maybe he is doing better now

It only took two or three years to figure out there was fraud involved with the run up into the invasion of Iraq :shrug:

[i miss america]

45. LOL! Yeah, I guess there is a bright side to everything.

[Malva Zebrina]

25. This is weak--we should not embrace any more of Kerry

period. We need someone who is not in the belt way of politics to stand up for the people of the United STates instead of for their own political careers.

Kerry was accused of being a flip flopper. If we accept this from Kerry now, because we will "take anything" we are weakening the liberal cause. He and we, will be attacked mercidlessly as flip floppers.

I don't understand Kerry--the only thing that does make sense with this timidity, is that he is so firmly entrenched into belt way politics for so many years that he has lost sight of a connection to the people--you know, the common man. He does NOT want a win and I have come to the conclusion that he really did not want to win the election either.

Forget Kerry. He is a nice, very very rich man who is loping around congress's good old boy club. He can suffer nothing for the rest of his life

[Trinity56]

26. "BREAKING: Kerry now believes the election was stolen. - Mark C. Miller"

I've noticed many comments in the threads indicating disappointment and anger over Kerry taking this long to get on board.

Let me say as politely as possible - get over it! Now is the time for all of us to get on board and make this a united effort to protect the integrity of our election process - 2006 is only 1 year away - we do not have time to waste arguing "should of, could of, would of" over something we cannot change.

Please, let's put differences of opinion aside and get busy working towards something we can change! Let's use this thread to brainstorm and throw suggestions out to members - let's discuss, but more than just talking, let's implement the best of the suggestions with actions that can really make a difference.

So here is a suggestion: Since Kerry is concerned about the "sour grapes" issue, it may be a good idea to contact Barbara Boxer's office with a comprehensive report which includes every bit of information on the 2004 election we can find, including Mark's new book. She has proved herself to be involved in this issue (recall the certification of electoral votes in January, 2005) and she is not afraid of controversy. IMO, Senator Boxer possess the tenacity it takes to get this issue out in the forefront.

I welcome your thoughts.




:kick:

[lyonn]

30. Welcome Trinity

But we are brainstorming on this post. Kerry needs to be brave and forget sour grapes. The past is the past. What does he believe and will he speak on the floor and press on this issue?

[leQ]

52. if it was stolen the last time, what makes you think it wont be again?

that's the whole point of not getting over it.

on edit: caplock got stuck

[aquart]

28. Slow, John. I needed you to get this on election night.

Fastest concession in the west.

[Barkley]

29. and Kerry's worried about being called a name while the country loses

its democracy!?!?!?!

This is why I won't support him or any other Dems that are
'afraid' to be called names in 2008.

[Riddler]

34. So basically it's taken him a year to figure out.....

what we all knew on Nov. 5 of last year?

[JackieO]

36. So this guy wanted to be president?

But he can't speak up?

Because?

I'm sorry, this is too pathetic for words.

[brentspeak]

38. Breaking: I won't believe Kerry said this until

he himself says it to the public. Non-gullible DUer, here.

[MellowOne]

39. Please Kerry make a big deal out of this

The stage is set with the CIA leak, this would be a very good time to bring it out.

[YvonneCa]

57. I'm with you!

Previous post:

Maybee...John Kerry is seeking media coverage. It's clear when he speaks intelligently about how to solve the country's problems, the media won't cover it (ie: Georgetown University speech on the Iraq War.) Maybe he and MCM have decided to pick a "fight" to draw attention to last year's election. Thoughts ? ? By the way...I love both Kerry and Mark Crispin Miller.
:patriot:

[GOTV]

40. From Raw story: Kerry rebuffs claim he said election was stolen

... Developing...

[fshrink]

42. He "thought" it all along. He's not stupid (like, you know)

He just says it (well, leaks it) now. That's the whole problem right there. It's like calling 911 the day after. Same with the stupid war and all the rest.

[Selteri]

43. Took him bloody well long enough. NT

[makeanoise]

44. Could this be Nader's Fault as well?

Shall we blame him again or blame the f*C*@*ing neocons?
Hm?

[GOTV]

47. Kerry's spokesman denies Kerry said this....

... according to raw story

"A spokesman for Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) vehemently denied that the senator had told a popular liberal author and journalist that he believed the 2004 election was "stolen" in response to queries from RAW STORY."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. Yup.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1900812

[GoddessOfGuinness]

48. Now is not the time for this...

it only detracts from the headway we're making against the rethuglican crooks that hold office. People are working on this issue, and I believe that election fraud will ultimately be exposed. Just not yet. Patience, John.

[whalerider55]

49. know when to fold them...

the election was stolen in 2000. kerry knew this. he was "prepared" in 2004... remember the 14,000 lawyers prepared in every state of the union to jump on any irreegularities? remember Cam Kerry sending out the e-mail telling everybody that John wasn't giving up, and he was working on it?

he folded quicker than a cheap suit on election day. his lawyers never materialized. when other fought the fight, he had to be dragged into it, and he only participated in a limited way.

he's my senator. I've lived in Massachusetts as long as he has been in politics. Despite his flashes of integrity, and occasionally corageous public stands, i've always believed him to be a political opportunist.


g-d knows, he would have been a roosevelt compared to bush. but we'll never know, because he withered when the heat was on. he dropped the ball. he didn't see it through. he let us down by getting sandbagged when he was warned (six weeks before the swiftboating, karl rove was widely quoted as saying 'by the time we're done with him, he won't know which side of the viet name war he fought on').

at this point, anyone holding public office in DC, senate or congress, is officially off my list. they are too locked in to the way things are, they lack the vision to lead. Kerry, Biden, Clinton, McCain, Frist, Hagel, go to the back of the class please.

Bush was a governor, but he has always been the manchurian candidate. carter and reagan were governors.

Clark. Edwards, and Gore, now. Mark Warner. I want to hear what these folks have to say.

as for John Kerry-- just shut up and go quietly into that Walter Mondale/Dan Quayle night. You spent your life preparing for your shot, and you turned it into frickin' amateur hour.

how was it that everyone here at DU knew they were going to steal it AGAIN, and somehow you didn't?

sheesh.

whalerider

[truthisfreedom]

51. if the thugs scream sour grapes, we scream WASHINGTON STATE RECOUNT.

and we scream LOUDER AND MORE OFTEN. let them be shrill. WE WILL BOOM.

[maryallen]

54. Well , gee, John ... your instincts have shriveled and died.

Your reaction is just a little too damn late.

The time for this conversation was a year ago.

[YvonneCa]

55. I'm with you!

Previous post:

Maybee...John Kerry is seeking media coverage. It's clear when he speaks intelligently about how to solve the country's problems, the media won't cover it (ie: Georgetown University speech on the Iraq War.) Maybe he and MCM have decided to pick a "fight" to draw attention to last year's election. Thoughts ? ? By the way...I love both Kerry and Mark Crispin Miller.

:patriot:

[Thangalin]

56. Kerry for President

C'mon, he won three purple hearts! =)

[FtWayneBlue]

58. Has anyone seen the GAO report?

I understand that they really knocked the election. Not coming right out and proclaiming that it WAS stolen, just that it might have been. Comments?

[Imagevision]

59. geeeezuuussss...! no wonder they called him a flip-flopper...~!

Idon't like the idea of Kerry & Bush Being Skull & Bones members --

they take an oath upon joining to never go against one another.

sick secret society -- we're here to sacrifice our lives for their ambitions and joys...heavy sigh...

[Old and In the Way]

60. Turn the heat up on them John!

If Kerry starts questioning the legitimacy of the election, it will bring the issue back on the plate front and center. We need to know we can trust our process in 2006...

[JWS]

61. Well. What can he do?

One thing I don't understand is that we have so many sec of States in 04. I want to actually take away this electronic voting completely. These guys have their jobs at stakes. It's only a matter of time before diebold totally just kicks out the Democratic Sec. of States. I hope they know what they're taking on...

[IndianaGreen]

62. I see Kerry is still playing Hamlet

Crispin Miller says that Kerry told him that the election was stolen, then we have a Kerry flunky telling the media that Kerry said no such thing.

This episode is a painful reminder of Kerry's main weaknesses: inconsistency and confusion. How much bandwidth we wasted in 2004 debating what did Kerry say and what did he mean to say, only to have a new Kerry pronouncement that would start the process all over again.

Why can't Kerry use less words and be more precise, and stand by what he says?

[upi402]

63. I will NEVER forget his concession speech

I will NEVER NEVER NEVER forget his concession speech to that rightard BushCo.

Kerry, the man who took a seat.

DINO

[rhett o rick]

65. One of the darker days of politics. nt

[rfkrfk]

66. When Kerry says the election was stolen, {or not stolen, depending

on who you believe}
is Kerry refering to vote fraud in Ohio,

or something like the Swiftvet lies-and-BS ?