UN set to vote on global day to mark Holocaust

[Behind the Aegis]

The United Nations General Assembly will vote tomorrow on the establishment of an international Holocaust remembrance day.

The proposal, which was submitted by Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, enjoys a solid majority, with at least 100 out of a total of 190 UN members promising to approve it.

The motion - which marks the first time Israel has submitted a resolution to the GA - calls for January 27, the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, to be recognized as an international day of Holocaust remembrance.

In recent years, a few European states have set an annual date on their calendar to commemorate the Holocaust. The proposal was submitted in cooperation with the United States, Russia, Australia and New Zealand, as well as members of the European Union.

...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/639048.html

[ECH1969]

1. Somehow I don't think Iran voted for it

[hiabrill]

2. Neither would Israel vote for a rememberance day....

...for the killings of Sabra and Shatila.

[ECH1969]

3. Israel has had its major flaws, but they don't seek

the death of the palestinians as a people.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Colorado Blue]

17. There has been ongoing warfare between Arabs and Israelis

for almost 60 years, preceded by decades of violence targetting Jews.

There have been victims on both sides. This must be acknowledged. Many Israelis have been killed and maimed just the past few days and rocket attacks are ongoing.

Your statement that the Israelis want to get rid of the Palestinians is bigoted, insulting and unfair - especially since it is the PLO Covenant, still in effect, and Hamas, and Islamic Jihad, and Iran, and etc and etc and etc, who want to destroy Israel - whilst Israel has been TRYING to find somebody to negotiate with, trying to get the Palestinians a state, and trying to establish some borders and some peace.

Finally, it is incumbent upon the Arab states to do their part to help the Palestinian people, who have been living as "temporary guests" in Arab lands for almost 60 years. Waiting for the destruction of Israel isn't the right way to help the Palestinians. People need to bury the hatchet and start working together to solve the many problems that confront this region.

[JudyM]

23. Thank you. Israel isn't perfect, but trying to protect itself is legit.

The Palestinian people need to shake their terrorist brethren if they want peace -

[Rich Hunt]

25. so...

'their terrorist brethren'.

So if one guy is an Arab, and then there's a terrorist who's an Arab, they are somehow akin, and the victim is 'responsible' for holding the terrorist 'brethren' accountable?

Wow, that's soooo not logical! In fact, it's more than a mite racist.

That's like if you told a battered spouse, "if you don't like it, you have to change your spouse."

[JudyM]

27. Not at all... the government/society is responsible to take strong steps

to stem the violence, rather than aiding and abetting. Of COURSE not all of them are doing this, but there's a large proportion that are supporting Hamas, for example. If they just let Hamas have free rein, they can't expect Israel to do the same!

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Jim Sagle]

32. When did you do that? I missed it.

:shrug:

[Colorado Blue]

33. Wait a second -

I'm going to respond over in I/P, to one of your other posts. I don't want this discussion to wind up being about that issue.

[chopper]

43. as usual...

someone tries to commemorate the holocaust, and somebody's got to hijack the thread into an anti-israel wank-a-thon.

give it a rest one of these days, will ya? they're trying to honor the sacrifice of 10+ million people. don't be so damn disrespectful.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Sure they do...

...don't you know the evil Israeli Empire is bent on recreating all of the Middle East, which is why they and their operatives, other Jews, have taken over the US government and media...and now the UN?! :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Behind the Aegis]

40. indeed..a very cheap stunt by you...

a thread about the Holocaust is used by you to hijack it and decry the "evils" of Israel. Not unexpected though.

Nice list of Jews. I am sure they make up less than 1% of the administration...but don't let that stop you.

ON edit: by the way...it passed UNANIMOUSLY! Even the Muslim nations did not object!

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Leftist_Warrior]

48. This makes me sick.

Don't you have anything better to do that black list Jews? Why not post a list of all the Catholics, Christians, Muslims, Budists, etc? Why just Jews?

[AngryAmish]

45. I've never alerted on anyone

But that is the worst post I have ever seen here.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Tacky! Tacky! Tacky!

[tatertop]

38. That is a good point. We should never forget Sabra and Shatila

It is Sharon's (the butcher) defining move.

[DaDeacon]

5. YO! Can African americans get a Slave trade day, hmmmm.(n/t)

[dutchdemocrat]

7. Or Native Indians?

How about a genocide day for them?

[iamtechus]

8. A Wonderful Precedent

Then we can set aside special days to commemorate the 1915 Armenian
genocide, the Serbian genocide and many others, including the Rawanda
massacre.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. Don't forget Dafur!

[ErisFiveFingers]

11. You forgot Poland!

Katyn was particularly ugly....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre

But seriously, I think there was some discussion about having something like an "International Genocide Rememberance Day", but the discussion rapidly devolved into an issue of whether or not such a thing would be anti-semitic (for marginalizing the shoah/porajmos/etc. as "another genocide"), rather than having a day specifically for the WWII Nazi slaughter.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

[Behind the Aegis]

12. I know what you are talking about.

The thread you are referring to dealt specifically with Britain. It was an Auschwitz remembrance day but certain Muslims wanted it changed because it offended them. That dealt specifically with the UK, this is the UN, so I don't think a "genocide day," would be a bad thing, but isn't it interesting all the snide remarks made when discussing the Holocaust. I am guessing some think the job wasn't complete enough for their taste.

[dutchdemocrat]

13. I am not surprised

No one really wants to comment on the concept of International Native Genocide Day. After all, it's probably the darkest stain in American history.

Virtually wiped out in one generation and now marginalized, forgotten and still being fucked over, North American Natives are the dust swept under the carpet.

Instead, they get Columbus Day, the celebration of the beginning of their wholesale slaughter and outright genocide. Imagine an international Hitler day? That's how it feels.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Stains

The darkest stain in American history?! Try the Western World! The massacres went from Canada all the way down to the jungles of SA!

Personally, I would not oppose such a day...I also would not jump into a thread about it and comment how the Holocaust deserves better treatment. I think Columbus day should be changed to a day of mourning and remembrance. But, it doesn't negate the horrors of the Holocaust!

[dutchdemocrat]

16. Sorry

But, I feel it's hypocritical to set aside a day for one example of genocide in history and NOT pay respect others. That is my opinion and it's relevant to this thread... completely. Genocide Day should be for all victims of all acts of genocide in history - including the Gypsies and homosexuals who were slaughtered alongside the Jews in the Holocaust and are not mentioned by name in the proposal put forward - yet were also victims of Hitler's hatred, bigotry, racism and prejudice.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. No need to be sorry..it is your opinion.

As I said, I have NO issue with a genocide day...although, it needs a better name!

Many people were murdered in the Holocaust...12 million by most accounts. HALF of those were from ONE group! What makes it so different is that this was during the "modern era" and things like that weren't supposed to happen. Most other genocides discussed all took place in their own respective countries, not that it makes it ANY better. The Holocaust spanned several continents! The goal: destroy the Jews. It continues to this day. The saddest thing is that it could happen again and I feel that many would sit by, like last time, and watch.

Many people bitch about Holocaust museums because they are "just for Jews." You can tell they have never been. Because the ones I have been to ALWAYS have something about ALL the victims! The national museum in DC, you get to walk through with an identity and find out if you survive at the end of the tour...they represent ALL the victims.

You want to put forward a proposal to the UN for a "genocide day?" I would work on that with you! You could contact your Dutch representative, and I could....well, Bolton...I ain't talking to HIM! I'll find someone! Think I am kidding? Contact me via PM...we'll work something out!

[Andromeda]

50. Well, I did mention the disabled and mentally handicapped,

and Gypsies in my first post in this thread. They were cruelly disposed of like so much garbage.

Anybody who was "different" was eliminated.

Homosexuals were another group who suffered unspeakable treatment from the Nazis as were the Russians who were considered sub-human.

During WWII, Russians were used as slave labor making weapons for Hitler's war.

But the Jews were the scapegoat for all of Germany's woes, not the other groups. For some reason Hitler hated Jews above all others and it was his obsession that fueled the hatred.

The most remarkable thing about that was how Hitler stirred up the masses against the Jews and most Germans went along with it without question. It was only after the war that some Germans said they knew nothing about Auschwitz and the other death camps. I think that they just didn't want to know and their professed ignorance was the only way they could deal with it.

The Holocaust must never be forgotten or minimized because it's not just about the Jews. We all suffer because of it. Because of an accident of birth people died and we have to care about that.

[Behind the Aegis]

52. Well stated!

Also, gays were one of the groups NOT released during the liberation because they were still seen as criminals! They were also one of the last groups to be recognized as being murdered.

You know, I have to say, I was disgusted by some of the comments on this thread. I am sensing you were, too. A thread about the Holocaust, became a thread to bash Israel and decry other injustices. I really doubt that if the UN passed a resolution recognizing the Rwandan genocide that others would have chimed in with "well, what about the...." or "what about the horrid treatment by other African nations." No, I predict it would have been met with shouts of joy and acceptance.

Someone down the thread said that "Blacks don't matter," and that does have some truth to it (Katrina!), but look at this thread, it seems dead Jews warrant little sympathy. It is all very sad.

Know that I am registering my disgust at you, but in the comments here in general. I think you understand what I am saying.

Thank you for your posts here!

[lastliberalintexas]

54. Speaking only for me personally

I did not minimize The Holocaust or even imply that this resolution should not have passed. I simply wanted to point out that "Never again" is really just a meaningless slogan since it happens with frightening regularity. It's just that the victims of the genocide vary with each subsequent maniacal outbreak.

It's simply a pet peeve of mine that the slogan is even bandied about. Though I admit I could have refrained from expressing my irritation with that in this particular thread.

[Colorado Blue]

18. I think the Native American situation is one that very few

Americans want to think about, or indeed, really know much about.

That's sad for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the joy to be found in learning about the truly awesome cultures developed by the various tribes, and which to some degree are still alive. But even the most successful tribes are under great pressure, and many suffer from poverty, ill health and lack of opportunity. We can help simply by learning, by seeking out Native American art and other products, by contributing in any way we can to their welfare. And we can learn from them, and should learn from them, for they know much of great value.

We really need to acknowledge the history of these great people, mourn their losses, and do what we can to help them in the future - to join the mainstream, to preserve their cultures - it should be their choice. We must do our utmost to preserve the environment, in which the Native Americans lived in such harmony.

Unfortunately bigotry is still affecting how many Americans see the Native Americans, and people often innocently offend them - as with NFL and college team mascots. Greater awareness would be the beginning of greater respect.

[Rich Hunt]

26. it doesn't matter...

The US will oppose it anyway.

Don't forget that some American families sympathized with the Nazis and probably still do.

[DBoon]

28. Families with the surname "Bush" maybe?

like that?

[AngryAmish]

30. or Romans destroying the Etruscans

or Rome in the 3d Punic War.

[Colorado Blue]

15. More from the article:

As part of the proposal, all member states will be called upon to develop an educational curriculum meant to instill the memory of the Holocaust in future generations to prevent genocide from occurring again.

UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has expressed his support for the measure.

The draft resolution reads, in part: "The Holocaust constituted a systematic and barbarous attempt to annihilate an entire people, in a manner and magnitude that have no parallel in human history. Six million Jews, a full third of the Jewish people, together with countless other minorities, were murdered. And yet, while the Holocaust was a unique tragedy for the Jewish people, its lessons are universal.

"The United Nations, an organization founded on the ashes of the Holocaust and committed to `save succeeding generations from the scourge of war' and to uphold and protect the `dignity and worth of human beings,' bears a special responsibility to ensure that the Holocaust and its lessons are never forgotten and that this tragedy will forever serve as a warning to all people of the dangers of hatred, bigotry, racism and prejudice."

[Andromeda]

20. Good idea.

This horrible event should never be forgotten lest it be repeated.

It was not just 6 million Jews who died but the disabled, mentally handicapped, gypsies and other "undesirables" in Hitler's eyes.

A Holocaust commemoration should just be a start and eventually commemorative days should be created for other groups nearly exterminated, such as the Albanians.

To this day, Turkey has never admitted how they brutally and ruthlessly attempted to exterminate the Albanian population.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Brava!

"This horrible event should never be forgotten lest it be repeated."

Like "Iranian Leader: Israel Will Be Destroyed", where 6 million more Jews would be eleiminated...but read some of the comments...perhaps we are not too far away from that again.

[Andromeda]

51. That's too awful to imagine...

but some views expressed in that thread make me wonder. :(

[Behind the Aegis]

53. You think?

What about this thread...Five people killed in Hadera suicide bombing? Not ONE response! Not ONE expression of revulsion! The other threads about it were sent to I/P and were mainly 'updates.'

So, "Never Again?" Sometimes, I really wonder.

[lastliberalintexas]

24. It's already been repeated!

By most accounts, the rate of genocidal killings in Rwanda was 3 or 4 times that of the Jews at Hitler's hands. Meaning had there been as many Tutsis as Jews pre-WWII and had that rampage lasted as long, somewhere between *18 and 24 million* Tutsis would have been slaughtered. But we don't worry about that little fight, since it was only Black folks killing other Black folks. (and that's the collective we, not anyone in particular)

And it will probably be years before we really know what's been happening in Sudan and how many people have been murdered there.


I am certainly not trying to lessen the horrors of what has come to be known as The Holocaust, btw. But the tunnel vision, blinders on approach of Western society in general to the genocides of the world is amazing to me. If you aren't white and European/Euro descent, you really don't count in the eyes of far too many.

[entanglement]

37. You nailed it! "if you aren't white, you really don't count" SAD but true!

n/t

[Andromeda]

46. Rwanda and the Sudan are no less important

than any other part of the world where genocide has taken place. Much of Africa has suffered greatly from unspeakable political crimes and the brutal deaths of innocents is mind boggling.

Please don't think my omission of Rwanda from my previous post is an indication that I don't care. I believe that we should have done something about it when Clinton was president and he has expressed his regrets about it also.

[DBoon]

29. It started with Communists and labor leaders

and moved on to other groups including Jews and Romany. The Romany were almost entirely eliminated.

Had the Nazis survived and conquered, they would have reduced the Slavic populations of eastern Europe to slaves.

We need to remember the breadth of the state sponsored genocide to ensure it does not happen again.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

22. Bolton: "What Holocaust?"

Okay, cheap shot. But you were thinking it, too.

[really annoyed]

34. Good

I support this 100%.

I fear my generation is forgetting the past.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. True...

...and what some are forgetting, others are rewriting. Seriously, only a few years after the Holocaust the 'deniers' emerged and become stronger every year, it seems. I wonder what "history" will record about the Holocaust in a 100 years. 200 years. A 1000 years.

[Nihil]

36. Probably ...

... the same as "history" records about the Albigensian "crusade"
and the slaughters of the various purges of "heretics" during the
previous 2000 years.

A footnote in history that has dedicated single-subject researchers
who publish obscure textbooks and is overlooked by the ignorant masses.

Mind you, I'm not convinced that "history" in the next two centuries
will be anything other than tales learned by word of mouth and passed
on around the campfire ...

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[AlienGirl]

47. It sucks?

It sucks that the people killed in a large genocide in industrialized, modern, recent times in Europe are being remembered?

If you want an overall Genocide Remebrance Day for all genocides, why not start lobbying for one? You could even start at the local level in your own town, where your voice is more likely to be heard.

Sometimes it seems like people don't really care about remembering victims of atrocities so much as they care about making sure that Jewish victims *don't* get memorialized or honored...

Tucker

[Andromeda]

49. How sad.

Sometimes it seems like people don't really care about remembering victims of atrocities so much as they care about making sure that Jewish victims *don't* get memorialized or honored...

It does seem that way, Tucker.

[JaneQPublic]

44. Another chance for Cheney to wear his parka and ski cap. (nt)