Fires of 'civil war' erupt in Paris

[struggle4progress]

Police in street battles after two teenagers die in chase

Jason Burke in Paris
Sunday October 30, 2005
The Observer

Hundreds of French youths fought with police and set cars ablaze in a northern Paris suburb early yesterday morning in a second successive night of rioting.

The disorder was triggered last week when two teenagers were electrocuted and killed in a local substation while fleeing from police. French authorities insist they were running away from officers investigating a break-in, but people in Clichy-sous-Bois claim that the dead youths had committed no crime.

Yesterday afternoon a silent march was held to the town hall in the centre of the suburb. Many protesters wore T-shirts bearing the message: 'Dead for Nothing'.

'We respect the republic, said Siako Karne, the brother of one of the dead men. 'The republic has to respect us.' <snip>

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1604595,00.html

[malaise]

1. Shades of 1968??? n/t

[MisterP]

3. Chirac just start wearing a billed, cylindrical little hat

and get fired at by French Algerian militarists

[Mass]

10. He will make a nice speech (if his health allows it) and promise the world

and then keep quiet in order not to be investigated for his personal scandals in the last 20 years.

[Mass]

6. No, classic story unfortunately that has been happening again and again

each time Chirac has the power.

The police tries to arrest a couple of non-european young people in poor suburbs.

The kids, afraid, flee. The police somehow kill them (claiming accident or self-defense).

Suburban kids take the streets in mini-riots.

Government promises to find out what happens.

Eventually people calm themselves one the kids are buried.

Unfortunately, this is a too common scenario, especially when the right is in power, as they tend to name interior ministers that want to show they are strong.

[fshrink]

11. Not quite, but it's pending.

And not just there, but everywhere. As in NOLA, the more it goes the more things hold by the paint. You can make it glow, make it trendy, change the color, advertise it, reframe it. It's still paint, more and more. Immigrant underclass' children there, invisible destitutes here... what negates the exploitation is merely covered.

[callady]

15. Good Post

Paris-Mogadishu-Falluja-New Orleans-Harlem

[donkeyotay]

17. It's all about appearances while ignoring real causes

The poverty gets worse, the corruption gets worse, the decay of the infrastructure and environment get worse and the only answer they have is more repression and a better police state. The wheels are going to come off if the clueless in Washington don't stop passing the time with the latest distraction and get to work on addressing some real problems... and poverty is a real problem.

[JoFerret]

20. Doesn't sound like it to me

No Renault workers for a start. No political outrage.

[Trillo]

2. "How" were they electrocuted? nt

[struggle4progress]

12. Accounts are fragmentary and perhaps differ: electrocution at ..

.. an electrical substation ...

[zann725]

4. Leave it to the French to expect civil rights! No wonder Repugs hate

them so.

[Mass]

7. Wrong - the Chirac govt has no idea what civil rights are.

[Rowdyboy]

5. This will only serve to worsen France's racial problems....

And the right wing, anti-immigrant and pro-corporate parties will likely benefit.

[Mass]

9. Exactly...

[ECH1969]

8. The world today reminds me in alot of ways of 1968

[malaise]

13. Correct n/t

[enigma000]

14. What religion did the protesters follow?

[High Plains]

18. Uh, Unitarian?

Why, do you have an ax to grind?

From the article:

"Clichy-sous-Bois is home to 28,300 people a large number of whom are recent immigrants from North or Central Africa. Most live in rundown, low-rise public housing estates. Unemployment rates are among the highest in France and many locals see the police as 'the enemy'."

It doesn't seem to be about religion.

[enigma000]

19. No ax to grind

Just curious. 5 days of rioting and continuing. Looks bad.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/01/france.riots.reut/index.html

Seems like a quagmire to me. Might be time for the French to end their occupation of France.

[High Plains]

21. I do note that a late report says "a substantial Muslim community"

in Clichy.

Hmmm, I don't know about the French ending their occupation of France, but they might want to think about a hearts and minds strategy.

[hogwyld]

23. After hearts and minds

We'll see the French evacuating Paris from the top of the Eiffel Tower? :sarcasm:

[bemildred]

16. Paris rocked by unrest

01/11/2005 07:45

Clichy-Sous-Bois - Police fired tear gas and rioters hurled Molotov cocktails as violence hit a poor Paris suburb for the fifth straight night in unrest that officials said on Tuesday had also spread to neighbouring towns.

The local prefecture said that the levels of violence in the troubled suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois were lower than on previous nights.

However 12 people were arrested in the town, which has a large Muslim community, during a night in which a Molotov cocktail was thrown at a police station and 11 cars and trash cans were torched.

Tensions have been running high between police and gangs of youths in Clichy-sous-Bois, northeast of the capital, since the accidental death by electrocution last Thursday of two teenagers.

News24

[Kni7es]

22. What the hell happened in the first place?

[davepc]

24. Tensions between native French and Muslim immigrants

they boil over. Things get ugly.

France needs to import labor to keep its economy afloat, a large part of that immigrant labor comes from Africa and the mid-east. They form communities and then cultures and religions rub together, it creates friction.

[cantstandbush]

25. It's happening all over the world and it's mainly all groups against peopl

of African descent. Arabs against blacks, Asians vs blacks, whites, Hispanic and Latino. I heard a program about this just this morning on the BBC. Discrimination against blacks is rampant in Austrailia, Sweden, Denmark, France, Italy, England. Major numbers of Africans have immigrated to those places. If 9/11 and the Iraqi invasion had not happened, discrimination against Muslims and Arabs whould not be a great as it is now. However, the discrimination against Muslims cannot compare to the discrimination against blacks througout the world. It is really sad and it is much like and even worse than what goes on in the USA for many of the same reasons. Discrimination in the workplace and education leads to poverty, crime, hopelessness (nutshell).