In New Orleans, landlords to begin evicting absent tenants

[Tab]

NEW ORLEANS - A flood of legal battles is set to be unleashed Tuesday in New Orleans when Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco lifts a post-Hurricane Katrina ban on evictions and 8,000 to 10,000 absentee tenants face the losses of their homes and possessions.

Landlords are expected to begin filing eviction requests with the courts immediately. If they're successful, they can clear out abandoned apartments and move tons of molding, waterlogged belongings to the streets within five to 10 days. In some cases, the landlords alone can make the decision to evict.

Attorneys and volunteers who represent low-income Louisiana residents are expected to gather Tuesday in Lafayette for briefings on eviction law and to rally in defense of a possible cascade of tenant grievances.

"That is somebody's life in there: pictures of their babies and school photos ... you would want a chance to save it," said Laura Tuttle, a lawyer with Southeast Louisiana Legal Services.

Many residents fled Katrina hurriedly, leaving even their most valuable possessions behind. Some of those people remain scattered throughout the United States nearly two months later.

Now, with city officials eager to begin rebuilding, those tenants' belongings are keeping precious apartment space out of the market, landlords said. That's space where imported workers could live.
More:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/krwashbureau/20051024/ts_krwashbureau/_wea_storms_evictions_1

[madeline_con]

1. "... tons of molding, waterlogged belongings ..."

Any better suggestion? :shrug:

[marmar]

2. Yes, keep putting the screws to Katrina victims...

In no other "advanced" Western country would this happen. We should be better than this.

[iamjoy]

3. Not All Landlords Are Big Companies

There are middle class people who invested in a property and then rented it out to an individual. Some of them would be put in a financial hardship themselves to allow these apartments to sit empty with no rent, they may have a mortgage to pay on the place.

I wonder if the federal government did anything to help the landlords, with certain conditions of course.

Some of these landlords are victims themselves.

[happyslug]

41. Actually most Landlords are private individuals

For most Corporations do not want the headaches of being an apartment manager. Now upscale apartments are often run by Corporations, but not the low end housing (With the Exception of Section 8 New Construction). Low end housing is often owned by an individual who purchased the house (or inherited it) and looking for some income from the rental unit.

[Sabriel]

4. Huh, I wonder where some of those thousands of absentees are...

Do you suppose they could be NEVER picking up their belongings?

[uppityperson]

7. If they don't find your body, you're not considered dead.

[hlthe2b]

5. this just breaks my heart....

what a single photo would mean to so many-- yet the odds are stacked against them ever getting anything from their prior homes.....

Would anyone ever have believed Americans to be so ruthless and self-serving when it came to the poorest and most vulnerable among us?

I'm so ashamed and feel so very helpless.

[salin]

10. I think of those relocated to my midwestern cities...

many do not have the $ to return to salvage anything from their homes. During the confusion in the run up to the onslaught - the message - grab a few things and several days worth of supplies (eg water and food.) In those frenetic times when you feared for your family's life - did you grab all important papers (birth certificates, social security information, as well as precious memory keepsakes life pictures...)? If not - after you were moved/relocated around the country - could you get back to salvage these things in such short notice.

I, too, feel very sad, and helpless in terms of knowing how to help.

[sandnsea]

They're going to re-rent these places???

Doesn't the work have to be done whether the tenant is there or not? Can't they salvage and store the belongings, do the work and allow the tenants 30 days AFTER the work is complete? It's hard to comprehend the callousness.

[LeftyMom]

14. Generally no

Unless landlord-tenant law is wildly different in Louisiana (which wouldn't surprise me) one would relocate or evict the tenant before doing a major upgrade. Acutally the landlord could be in deep legal shit for continuing a tenancy if the unit is not up to spec.

Edit: One could of course allow the same tenant back in after the repairs but I wouldn't make any promises to that effect to aviod problems if things take longer than expected or the place can't be restored to it's original condition.

[sandnsea]

18. They didn't do that with my son

The roof fell in on his apartment, they didn't evict him. He moved out, duh, they did the repair and he moved back in. These people are already out, thus the problem, they can't be found. Not to mention the extraordinary circumstances, places need to be fixed. They don't have to evict anybody before they do repairs. There's emergency clauses in every rental contract in the country. This is just one more excuse to get rid of lower income and minorities.

[LeftyMom]

20. As a landlord

I wouldn't want to have an obligation to a mystery tenant who was out there somewhere. Presumably if they haven't had contact in two months, they probably won't in the month or more it takes to do an eviction.

Of course I'd try like hell to find that person and make arrangements for them to retrieve thier property. Landlords who wanted to be asses and fuck people over could have initiated evictions sometime last month.

[sandnsea]

22. What obligation?

There are no mystery tenants and no obligations to mystery tenants. They're human beings. In most states, you're obligated to store their property anyway. Some landlords probably did start the eviction process last month, that's where the rest of them got the idea and why it's finally in the news. A nonpayment eviction can happen in 3-10 days, especially if the "mystery tenants" aren't there to fight it. Just because you aren't an ass doesn't mean there aren't other landlords who are.

[LeftyMom]

23. I think the rules must be very different there

In an abandoned unit eviction (which is what this would be in CA) I can't do shit for fourteen days after the rent is late, then I call the lawyer and get things moving. After eviction (takes 6 weeks with no complications) I'd have to store thier stuff of value for several months but could dispose of the obvious trash. We have relatively decent tenant protections here.

By mystery tenant I mean that nobody knows where they are, if they'll be back, if they're alive, etc. Not that they're not human or something, just that I wouldn't want to have a potential obligation to protect the property and renter's rights of a person I had no contact with for long periods.

[sandnsea]

24. You said you do

for several months. "I'd have to store thier stuff of value for several months." So there really isn't any obligation to the "mystery tenants" problem. Store their stuff, like you're obligated to do, and start fixing. If they don't come back, they haven't paid their rent and aren't going to go to court to fight the eviction. It would be done in a matter of days, could probably be done a week or so before the property was ready to rent again.

Yes, California has much better tenant protection than most states. I was looking at Texas law for a DUer a few weeks ago and was shocked at how minimal their protection is. Oregon is somewhere in between. Still, there's no reason to start evicting people at this point in time and needing to repair the property is a lame excuse.

[LeftyMom]

27. Well if they haven't turned up by now

will they when it's ready? The last thing I'd want is to finally have a property ready to turn over and then have to find my renter or do an eviction while sitting on a rental ready unit.

My big concern would be my obligation to move that person back in. If I even mentioned a date of completion on the repairs and the unit wasn't ready at that time I could be in a world of trouble. I'd rather end the tenancy (voluntary would be best, I hate evictions but I'd do that if needed) and then re-rent to that person or somebody else after the repair.

Also one might need to get the tenancy status situation straightend out in a certain amount of time (depending on the policy) to get any money from insurance for rent loss.

[sandnsea]

29. What a hoot

"If I even mentioned a date of completion on the repairs and the unit wasn't ready at that time I could be in a world of trouble."

It's always something...

[LeftyMom]

30. Oh for fuck's sake.

I don't want to argue with you. I've dealt with emergencies, I've taken care of my tenants. I know what the law is here (although it sounds like the law is much less tenant-friendly in Louisiana.)

If you don't want an explanation from somebody with some familiarity with rental housing and evictions and just want to rail at the injustice of the situation, please put me on ignore.

Thanks.

[Psephos]

31. LeftyMom, someone's been yanking your chain

I thought your information was valuable, and you sound like the kind of landlord I'd like to have.

It annoys me on DU when someone with actual experience is lectured to by someone who has only theories and notions.

Peace.

[LeftyMom]

32. Thank you

I try, both on DU and at work. :)

[barb162]

36. I agree with you

I am not a landlord now, but was. You have to fix the place if it's damaged, simple as that

[sandnsea]

38. Who said you didn't?

Fixing the place isn't the issue, obviously they have to fix the places. Evicting people in order to fix the place is the issue. The people aren't there. It's an emergency. Landlords can fix the places. What to do if the people don't show back up? Gee, nonpayment of rent.

California Law, since that's where leftymom lives.

A. The 3 Day Notice To Pay Rent Or Quit

This Notice is used when the tenant has failed to pay the full rent due and owing for the particular rental period.

Then:

The Sheriff drives to the property and posts a 5 Day Notice To Vacate on the front door. If the tenants fail to vacate within that period of time, the Sheriff will come out a second time and physically lock out the tenants and possession will be restored to the Landlord.

If the people aren't going to come back by the time the property is ready to be rented, they aren't going to contest an eviction. 8 days. In California. That's it. There's no reason for the landlords to start eviction processes until they're ready to rent properties if people don't come back and pay their rent.

[sandnsea]

34. I've been a tenant for 25 years

There isn't any reason for these landlords to not put stuff in storage, leftymom admits it's required by law anyway. There's no reason they can't do the work, it's an emergency. There's plenty of time to take care of any legal requirements if the tenants don't show back up, eviction for non-payment takes days if they aren't contested and missing tenants aren't going to contest. I was also a legal secretary for several years and handled these cases many times.

I'm not the one yanking chains.

[ticapnews]

43. Is there anyplace to store all this stuff?

We're talking about thousands of apartments, in a region that was just blown to bits and then waterlogged. Somehow I doubt Katrina just bypassed all the storage facilities in the area. Assuming the landlords wanted to keep these personal belongings in storage, is there even a place left to hold it all?

[sandnsea]

44. A big ol' city called Houston

5 hours away. Rent a truck, yes it will be difficult, and haul what you manage to salvage over there. There won't be all that much, as you say, the region was just blown to bits and everything is waterlogged. Maybe a box of pictures and family heirlooms per apartment. What an inconvenience.

[barb162]

33. you state there is

"...no reason to start evicting people at this point in time and needing to repair the property is a lame excuse. "

Well come on now, it is several weeks since the hurricane. Perhaps the tenants could put a phone call into the landlord over a several week span of time?

Somewhere along the line the landlord has to get the income from their property.

[sandnsea]

39. Fix it and rent it then

There's no need to start evicting people before the property is even ready to rent. Some places people can't even get back into, some people can't afford long distance phone calls. Maybe Louisiana doesn't have laws that require landlords to store tenants belongings which is why they're so confused. Maybe they think they can just dump it all because that's what they've always done, that's a possibility.

[happyslug]

42. Such Mystery Tenants are a constant headache.

I work for legal aid and about once a month I get a phone call about a rental unit that was abandoned by a Tenant. Now I practice in Pennsylvania so I have to apply Pennsylvania Law, which like most states is product of Court decisions NOT statute (The reason is every time someone propose a true Landlord and Tenant Act, the Landlords do not like the protections stated in the proposed statute, even when it just reflects current law, thus all that is passed is a hodge poach of statutes that modify some parts of the Common law instead of adopting a integrated landlord and Tenant system).

Anyway, when it comes to what to do with a Tenant's property after he has either been evicted or left the unit comes up about once a month in my office. I tell the caller that under Pennsylvania law the landlord has to hold on to the property for a "Reasonable" time period. What is "Reasonable"? While that is up to a Judge or Jury to decide if the case is ever litigated. The big factor is the cost to store the items and the value of the items. For example if someone left a cheap living room sofa, storing it for 30 days would be a problem but manageable, storing it for more than that period may not be worth the value of the Sofa. Pictures and personal goods, on the other hand can be stored almost anywhere and as such the courts will require the landlord to hold on to the items longer (The same with expensive furniture, through I have found such expensive furniture rarely left behind and when it is the Landlord has no problem storing it by using it themselves until the Tenant reclaims the furniture, if the tenant ever does).

As to Pennsylvania law as to the Apartment itself, one way to avoid the issue of eviction is to determine the rental unit "abandoned". If a tenant has "abandoned" a rental unit the landlord has the right to reclaim the Rental unit by changing the locks without going to court (When Landlords call me about this I tell them if the Tenant returns the Landlord has to leave them back into the unit, but only if the tenant returns in a "Reasonable" Time period, again depends on what was left in the unit and the length of time the tenant was away in addition to the issue of the rent being paid).

Notice the big issue under Pennsylvania law (and as a rule Pennsylvania follows the Common Law) is one of reasonableness. Both the Tenant and Landlord have to act "Reasonable". What is "Reasonable" while that is up to a Judge or Jury but the factors involve regards rent being paid, time away from the unit, and the items left behind.

In the Case of New Orleans if Pennsylvania law was being applied as soon as the Katrina was over the Landlord could have started to remove any damaged items based on the Concept of abandonment. I would advise Landlord to try to save as much as possible but anything made of Cloth (Sofas, beds etc) should be pitched immortality (Also given the nature of such items their value is Zero and thus even if a Judge or Jury rules the Landlord's action was unreasonable, the value of items at the time the landlord threw it away was Zero and that is all the tenant is going to get for such items). Electric Equipment would be treated similarly, given that if soaked such equipment is unsafe to operate and should be disposed of by anyone who owns such equipment (i.e. Televisions, Radios, VCRs, DVDs Players, CD Players and Computers).

Pictures and family heirlooms have to be treated differently, since they may have value even if Damaged AND tend to be small. These I would advise the Landlord to store for at least 60 days and then review. 60 days is more than a reasonable time period for the tenant to arrange to pick up their items or even to move back into the rental unit. More expensive heirlooms and picture I would advise them to hold for an additional 60 days and then deposed of them.

Please note after each period I would have the landlord write a letter to the Tenant to pick up their items or to contact the Landlord. The Post Office will forward such a letter if a forwarding address has been filed with the post office. Thus I would recommend sending such a letter even if the previous ones came back. I also would tell my clients to keep that letter as evidence she of he made every reasonable effort to contact the tenant.

[SoCalDem]

25. The "beauty" of the evacuation melee was that poor people who

were separated from their support system (their family/friends/jobs/etc) are unlikely to be able to "keep in touch" with their "old life".. They are too busy trying to start their "new" life and try to FIND their missing friends & family.. and just where would YOU start??

Suppose that authorities put you on a bus and sent you to Missoula Montana, and everyone else you knew were sent to other places.. Where would you start?

Betty Smith
Somewhere, Missouri (we think)

and when did they start delivering mail again to the destroyed areas of New orleans??


the "moving" of these folks is the first step in "removing" them permanently.. They have barely enough money to get by, probably most do not have jobs, lots don't even know what became of their family and friends... "Subleting" their apartments is pretty far down on their list..

[sandnsea]

26. I agree

Which is why I objected to the term "mystery tenant", the landlords know who these people are and should respect them as fellow humans. They can start the repair and store anything salvagable and give the people time to regroup and come back if they want to. It's a bullshit "solution" to a non-problem.

[uppityperson]

6. I am confused here, help me please

On the one hand you are clearing out tons of molding waterlogged belongings (meaning the apartment is probably moldy, waterlogged, uninhabitable). On the other hand, these are "precious apartment space...where imported workers could live."

How do these 2 statements apply to the same dwellings?

I believe that many dwellings are unsalvagable, need to just be bulldozed and burnt. I also believe that there are habitable dwellings that (some) landlords want to rent out to people who will pay more. Because of my basic skepticism, I believe that this ban-lifting is aimed towards this second group. But the reasoning they give is really confusing to me because you can't have moldy, waterlogged, uninhabitable housing that are precious apartment space where imported workers could live.

[MarsThe Cat]

8. and why can't the tenants return...?

why does it have to be "imported workers"?
couldn't A LOT of displaced new orleanians use a paying gig?

[LiberalFighter]

9. Yes!!! Why give jobs to outsiders when the locals need the jobs

[uppityperson]

13. Displaced NewOrleanians can't afford to live there now

Now that they don't have to be paid prevailing wage and have to compete with higher paid contractors for rent. You rent out the apartments, the ones inhabitable that is, to contractors (FEMA or otherwise) that are getting paid decent wages (as out-of-area contractors). Then when they are done "restoring" NO, you can rent out the apartment for more money since it is now so nice and neat and clean.

The uninhabitable moldy waterlogged homes and apartments you just tear down and rebuild nice ones and then rent those out for a bunch of money to "nice" people.

Ignoring the coming recession and any vestige of humanity that is.

I hate all of this crap. I really really really hate it.

[Igel]

48. Try this thought experiment.

You have a three story apt. building.

You get 3 inches of flooding. The apts. are closed up in 90+ degree heat. In those buildings, you get lots of surface damage on the ground floor. In the other apts., none. But everybody was evacuated, so the three floors produce no income, but presumably still have taxes and even a mortgage to cover.

Similarly for buildings that got no flooding or water damage from broken windows or damaged roofs. Relatively easy to fix, but the tenants could be in any of a dozen states.

We have Louisianans in our apt. complex, and I've seen more applying to move in. Some rented in NOLA, and retrieved what they thought was important when they could, with no guarantee that the landlord was there to talk to them. Others figure there's nothing to retrieve. I think a couple can't afford to make the trip. Some (in each category) want to move back. Others don't. Others think they can't.

[applegrove]

11. Some of these people - people on the third floor and above - have their

whole lives intact in those apartments. And it is going to be thrown all out on the street. No - they will not move people's shit to a communal retrieval site - they won't pay the bucks for that.

And people don't have the money to go home and sift through it all - anymore than they had the money or car to leave town.

So sad.

Cities should have lockers set up for people's shit. If they get evictied their stuff should go to a locker. How much do two watchmen cost? Think of the savings in terms of personal items and items that have valued like couches that are good, shelving, beds, furniture...

[MarsThe Cat]

15. if the people's "whole lives" are in the upper floors, intact...

why can't the people come and get it, if nothing else?

[applegrove]

35. Um - and what - bring it all back with them on the buss (if they get a

free return buss pass to NO from Deluth?). If they get a pass. They'll take only personal items and not big stuff. And who exactly who is starting their lives & a job has the time or the money to visit?

Oh and the vacancy rate in NO is HUGE! Not in the drouwned out areas. In areas where the flooding is not so bad - vacancy rates of 38% and the like - all over town. So it is not as if the landlords need to rent out the spaces this month - for the thousands moving home.

It is about landlords getting tenants out so they can have their land condemmed, collect on insurance and sell their property to developers. I don't know why they cannot wait another month for all those people who have not made it home (let's say they are more concerned with stabilizing their kids and developing and keeping a new norm in the weeks after Katrina - and only now 8 or 12 weeks later feel like they could leave for a few days... you know.. being responsible parents...)

[MarsThe Cat]

45. then how long should they be given?

and if they're going to keep their "stuff" in their apartment in NO, they better plan on keeping up the rent payments as well.
Or are landlords supposed to do without their source of income?

[applegrove]

51. It is such a waste of stuff. I'm sure Walmart is on the case ASAP saying

"people don't need their stuff - they can buy "new stuff" at WalMart.

[MarsThe Cat]

52. well, ultimately-

that IS what our society and economic system is all about.

maybe if a REALLY HUGE pandemic, or global warming, or nuclear war, or peak oil, or a giant asteroid can reduce the population enough so that the survivors can return to a more agrarian lifestyle...but until then, we're pretty much stuck with it.

[applegrove]

53. Oh I am a conspicuous consumer too - I follow fashion. But what I meant

was that the little things that matter - people on 3rd floors should have a right to return. A pick through what is left. The "stuff" they will replace at walmart isn't important - it is the "stuff" of their lives - things tucked away and saved over years for no more reason than just coming across them fill you with joy.

I feel sorry for them. I mean keepsakes from your kids and the like!!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

12. Yep, here we go

Now, are those people really absent? Or dead and not counted?

[markus]

16. An injunction was issues this afternoon (10/24)

Details here.

It's going to require, for now, that the proceedings take place in Orleans Parish.

That's still not going to help people who are scattered all across the state and teh nation.

Mayor Nagin did call for rent controls in a long interview with the T-P, an audio of which was posted in its entirety on NOLA.Com

[NorthernSpy]

17. three cheers for Property!

This is so the time to start pitching people's last few earthly possessions into the street! After all, there's money to be made. Gotta make room for those "imported workers", you know...

:eyes:

[markus]

19. In some places, the evicitons have begun

See this Times-Picayune story, talking about how FEMA was looking to take over a trailer park and evict the current residents.

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-11/1129788228303820.xml

[Sgent]

21. The landlord/tenant laws in LA

basically don't exist. The govenor by proclamation put a stop to evictions, but in general from contemplation to eviction takes less than 3 days in the state.

The article mentioned 5-10 days, but failed to mention that if the tenatn signs a waiver (required in any home I looked at), there is no demand to quit, no eviction proceeding, and no right to a court date. The landlord can literrally evict you at a moment's notice, given certain conditions (non-payment of rent, etc.).

[msongs]

28. so what would you do if you were a landlord in this situation? nt

[sandnsea]

40. Put their stuff in my house

If that's what it took. Rent storage units in Houston, if that's what it took. Make the repairs and give tenants as much time as possible to return. Once the places were repaired and ready to rent, then and only then would I start eviction notices. Common decency, it's the least anybody could do.

[OneBlueSky]

37. putting property ahead of people following a disaster . . .

is unconscionable . . .

[MarsThe Cat]

55. but if the people want their property-

shouldn't they come and get it?

[No Exit]

46. Notice that they waited till the Republican Bankruptcy Law took effect

[Igel]

49. Doesn't this mean, really, that Blanco

cleverly had her no-eviction notice timed so the new bankruptcy law would be in effect when it expired?

This one I chalk up to coincidence or inadvertence.

[Kralizec]

47. Bloodsuckers! n/t

[Javaman]

50. So if Evacutee A is in Washington State and can't get back to NOLA...

Then what? dough shit? Ahhh America according to those compassionate right wingers, gotta love it, huh?

[MarsThe Cat]

54. and just what is a landlord supposed to do?

their apartment(s) are their source of income.