NYT: Cheney Told Aide of C.I.A. Officer, Notes Show

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.

Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby’s testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said.

The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson’s husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration’s handling of intelligence about Iraq’s nuclear program to justify the war.

Lawyers said the notes show that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/24/politics/24cnd-leak.html?hp&ex=1130212800&en=db7d02c93e5913ef&ei=5094&partner=homepage

:wow:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Holy crap, is Cheney busted?

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

2. Sure looks like it!

This is HUGE!


:nuke:

[goclark]

4. Candle lit and yoga stance assumed

[IndianaGreen]

106. I am lighting candles to the Santeria god, Chango

Inspired by watching Buena Vista Social Club on cable tonight.

[Blaq Dem]

201. Set up for a Condolooza Rice run for prez in '08

Chaney leak.
Chaney indicted.
Chaney resign.
Condolooza replaces.
Condolooza runs against Hillary.
Of course, Condolooza loses in the long run.

[regnaD kciN]

208. Maybe, but...

...I don't think anyone was expecting Cheney to run in 2008 anyway. Condi would be the only likely candidate from within the misadministration.

However, even if the Bushies presented a united front for Condi in 2008, I can't see her getting the Republican nomination. The system is too driven by the party loyalists of the small-town religious right in the midwest and deep south, and I sincerely doubt that they would ever vote for a...gasp!...woman, let alone a...gasp again!...Negro woman :eyes: -- particularly one who hasn't made a point of claiming born-again, Bible-believing status.

[calimary]

214. Besides, she's pro-choice. They'd never go for that, either.

Their al Qaeda (oops - I mean, their BASE) will remain militant in its complete disconnect from reality. Long may they stay that way.

[MADem]

289. And, horror of horrors, UNMARRIED!!!!

Bill Maher did a very funny piece about Harriet Miers' "sexual status" and why it flummoxed the GOP. He will be able to dust off that opus and recycle it if Condi gets the nod.

But I have been seeing WAY TOO MUCH of Jeb on TV today. You have to wonder if Poppy and Bar are pushing little Monkey to pick him if Big Dick goes limp.....

Of course, Jeb has to agree, which means he will have to drag his wife back from Mexico, put Noelle in a treatment facility permanently, muzzle his youngest drunkard and put a full time security-babysitting detail on him, and tell his oldest, who seems to have shaped up at long last, to just lay low.

[clydefrand]

238. But she will claim this verrrrrrrrrrrrrry soon!

"one who hasn't made a point of claiming born-again, Bible-believing status."

[Jawja]

239. Oh, but by the time 2008 rolls around,

she will be "born again." Absolutely. She will see the light.

[JJackFlash]

304. no, Blaq

You still don't understand the repugnican party. They would NEVER nominate a black woman for president -it's an absurd scenario. That rich old hypocrite pat robertson has a better chance.

[thinkingwoman]

15. No, it's HUGH!!!!

I'm SERIES.

:rofl:

That never gets old for me. I must be 12.

Meanwhile, back on topic, that's a very interesting planted story.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

82. It's sure old , tired stuff alright

I dont understand why DUers keep dragging out these old freeper jokes :eyes:

[thinkingwoman]

92. I can't speak for all old freeper jokes

but this one gets me giggling over and over again. It says so much, with so little effort.

[mountainvue]

140. It makes me laugh too. n/t

[longship]

103. What are you, a moran? :-)

We trot them out because, like the original SNL, repetition is funny. How many times can you laugh at Steve Martin with something silly on his head? When you've seen and heard Emily Litella say, "Oh, that's very different.... Nevermind." a dozen or two times, is it still humorous? The "Land Shark" routine? Samurai Deli? Week after week, the same routines. But it was still funny.

(Just joking about the moran...)
:-)

[eowyn_of_rohan]

110. Some things are only funny once

to some people. Guess I am one of them when it comes to this level of humor :shrug: (Sorry--not in the same league as the Samurai and Litella skits to me)

[longship]

125. Well, the Freeper goofs are actually quite sophomoric.

Maybe that's all the more reason why they're repeated so often.

But I think we all use those idioms for the benefit of the visiting Freepers so that they can understand our posts and not get all confused by unfamiliar terminology. Kind of makes them feel at home.

[Bridget Burke]

233. Like the recent sad case of a parrot dying of bird flu in the UK....

I'm not the only one who thought of Monty Python.

[Nordmadr]

248. It is an EX parrot!! N/T

[mike6640]

259. He's Pining

For the Fjords!

[Maat]

138. It never gets old for me either!

Ah, what would I do without Freeper moranity (ooh, O.K., I made that one up myself).

[Fridays Child]

223. Me, either.

Why? I don't know. It just makes me laugh. Guess I'm 12, too. Oh, well... :rofl:

[SnowGoose]

258. For me, it's "so their"

I'm smirking like a ninny just from typing it.

So their. *snarf*

[thinkingwoman]

281. LOL, that's another good one. nt

[AngryOldDem]

271. Shades of Spiro in '73....

Can Bush be far behind???

I sure hope to hell this plays out and justice is FINALLY served.

[LifeDuringWartime]

273. more like HUGH@!11!11

;)

[thinkingwoman]

282. oh man!

I forgot the 11 when I typed mine!

I've failed a faux freeper! I should :hurts:

[hang a left]

6. Tis a prelude to his indictment tomorrow.

This leaks timing is preparing everyone IMO.

[Blaq Dem]

200. Of course he leaked. He's a D*ck!

I hope he's indicted and thrown in jail with Tommie Delaid.

[HereSince1628]

222. At his age, dribbling is a common problem.

[TahitiNut]

77. It's legal for Cheney to tell Libby about Plame ....

... but the real question is what did he tell Libby to do with that information. Libby's testimony that he first learned from journalists is perjury. Due to the deliberate misdirection he created, it's probably also obstruction of justice. The notes nail that down. Will Libby take more falls for Cheney?

Just how much would Cheney be implicated by this? While the conversation isn't inherently illegal, there would have to be a very, very good reason for Cheney to have this conversation with Libby - or the clear implication is that Cheney is directing the targeting of Plame. (We must remember that the primary goal and effect of leaking Plame's identity was to take out the BJ&A NOC network in South Asia and the Middle East, which allows Cheney companies to operate with greater impunity.)

IMHO, this probably means the indictments will come out tomorrow ... unless more is leaked tomorrow, even bigger. (It might also be a handy way to see who else spills some beans under pressure.)

[knight_of_the_star]

134. Not directly illegal

But he could be charged with criminal conspiracy. If it can be proven or inferred beyond reasonable doubt that he told Scooter what he did then he's nailed.

[No Exit]

254. ...Yeah, but it's illegal for Cheney to LIE about it to Fitzgerald...

and all indications are that Cheney DID lie to Fitzgerald!

[TX-RAT]

303. Is not recalling a conversation considered a lie?

[donkeyotay]

272. I'm still trying to imagine the scenario under which this was leaked

The CIA knew the yellowcake claim was horseshit, but Cheney tells them to look into it again. They send Wilson. They report their findings to Cheney. Perhaps Cheney rejects their findings again, and wants to know what moron they sent. So Tenet tells him "Wilson. Oh and by the way, his wife is involved in a top-secret, need-to-know only, undercover operation to thwart the black market in nuclear weapons." Hmmm. I'm still liking the OSP and particularly Bolton.

[Marie26]

290. Tenet has denied ever telling Cheney about Valerie Plame

According to MSNBC. So who did Cheney get this information from? I'm obsessesed with this question - who told Cheney? This is top secret info that only high-ranking intelligence officers should have. Yet Cheney didn't get it from the CIA. Libby, Rove, etc. would have no reason to know this name. Does anyone think it's possible Cheney got the name from someone outside of the US government?

[donkeyotay]

295. He certainly could have gotten it from the Office of Special Plans

They were reviewing the raw intelligence to see what the CIA had missed. The there's the NSA's intercepts. It could have come from the CIA, I suppose. Didn't the head of the spy operations resign? Plavitt?

[Marie26]

300. But if he got it from NSA or CIA sources

why would he lie about it? It seems like a big risk to claim Tenet told him, when Tenet can just quickly deny it. Why not just say they got it from the NSA or wherever? It makes me think Cheney took the risk of lying because revealing the true source would make him look even worse.

[Bacchus39]

307. exactly

obviously it wouldn't be surprising for the VP to know who worked at the CIA even undercover. and what did Scooter do with the info is the question

[calimary]

127. Who was it, here, who posted: "KABOOM!" - when a big new update

on this scandal came out (I think it was in Raw Story) last week?

Well, KABOOM!!! Again!!!

Looks like ze dick is ze mushroom cloud, all by himself.

I've had a shitty couple of weeks. This stuff, however, has kept me from losing all hope. Especially THIS PARTICULAR stuff! I swear this will send both my husband AND me to sleep with smiles on our faces tonight - regardless what else might happen!

Hey, dick - looks like you may yet have your political Lorena Bobbitt moment...

:evilgrin:

[rodeodance]

210. bad press, that is one thing for sure!!

[primative1]

235. Hate to Rain on The Parade

Umm, why does my thinking say this story says nothing?
Cheney, for whatever reason, is the Vice President.
We can assume both he and Libby have security clearnaces up the yazoo so what they discuss between themselves is not an issue.
Its what they choose to do outside of the office that is.
This part of the story goes nowhere.

[No Exit]

255. No! This part of the story does go somewhere!

If Fitzgerald knew, back after Cheney talked to him, that it was Cheney who told Scooty-boot about Wilson's wife, then Fitzgerald wouldn't have had to go after every reporter Scooty-boot had talked to, in order to disprove Scooty-boot's assertion that Scooty-boot "first heard about Wilson's wife FROM A REPORTER".

We know, however, that Fitz DID have to go after all those reporters, in order to check out Scooty-boot's story (and to finally prove it to be false).

That means that Cheney did NOT tell Fitz that it was he who'd told Scooty-boot about Wilson's wife.

That means Cheney lied to Fitz, and that's a CRIME--whether Cheney was under oath at the time or not.

Cheney has committed a felony. Impeachment, anyone?

[primative1]

267. Still Dont see it ...

I agree Scooter is screwed, but my guess is Cheney will get to slide by with the "Duh, Iyah Fowget" defense to what he may or may not have said to someone years earlier.
If he claims to not be part of an overall conspiracy this would probably be the accurate answer, it would have been no big thing to him at the time so why would he remember?
Everyone wants to see Cheney hang but I dont think this is what will get it done. Its not the leak itself, its the underlying reason ... Can he be connected to can act of deliberatly lying to congress...

[No Exit]

268. I agree with you on one thing:

If there is ANY way to get Cheney out of this legal tangle, he has the best law resources money can buy to do it.

But please read this excellent analysis by Jane Hamsher (a former prosecutor) at www.firedoglake.blogspot.com :


"A lot of people are saying that the NYT article does not indicate that Dick Cheney committed a crime, it simply says he was aware of the Valerie Plame/Joe Wilson situation. I beg to differ.

Here is the key paragraph:
'Mr. Cheney was interviewed under oath by Mr. Fitzgerald last year. It is not known what the vice president told Mr. Fitzgerald about the conversation with Mr. Libby or when Mr. Fitzgerald first learned of it.'
Cheney was interviewed by Fitzgerald last year under oath. That would make it perjury to tell a lie. Although Republican logic tells us that perjury is only a crime if you're getting a blow job in the bargain, a legitimate US attorney might not see it that way.

What indication do we have that Cheney lied? Well, if Cheney he had told the truth when he was interviewed last year, i.e., that he was Scooter Libby's source, Fitzgerald would not have needed to threaten Judy Miller and Matt Cooper with jail in order to counter Scooter Libby's testimony that he first heard about Valerie Plame's identity from journalists.

Also from the Times article:
'It also explains why Mr. Fitzgerald waged a long legal battle to obtain the testimony of reporters who were known to have talked with Mr. Libby.'

The reporters involved have said that they did not supply Mr. Libby with details about Mr. Wilson and his wife.
In other words: the testimonies of Cooper and Miller were necessary to bust Libby in a lie.

The decision of Judges Tatel, Henderson and Sentelle against Judy Miller was decided on February 15, 2005 and reissued April 4, 2005. Without getting into elaborate quotes, basically they agreed that there was no other way to get the information they needed other than from these journalists. They did not resort to jailing Miller or Cooper lightly without first having exhausted all other possibilities.

Which means Fitzgerald was not sitting on some big cathartic confession from Dick Cheney at the time.

Cheney lied. Under oath. Put any Republican (and a few DINOs) in the wayback machine, and they will tell you -- this is an impeachable offense."

[MADem]

291. How about deliberately lying to the Special Prosecutor?

If he said the wrong thing to Fitz, even while NOT UNDER OATH, he can still be tagged with obstruction of justice. All he had to do is lie and say he never discussed it with Libby. One little lie....

[Marnieworld]

257. It's part of an overall criminal conspiracy eom

[marmar]

3. Cheney is a twisted, evil, hateful, bitter man...

I'm sure he's very much behind this.

:evilfrown:

[hvn_nbr_2]

293. And those are his good qualities.

Vile satanic despicable corrupt depraved vicious virulent scumbag tyrant bully barbarian demon fiend bloodsucker ghoul traitor.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to slander barbarians.

[Straight Shooter]

5. Ding, dong, the Dick is ....

Politically dead.
Which old Dick?
The wicked Dick.

:woohoo:

[shanti]

69. LMAO

I love it!

[Blaq Dem]

204. Watch him "have" a heart-attack.

"Mr. X" my ass. He knew he did it all along. Watch Bush cult turn to distractions. As an American, I'm fearful of another terrorist attack. It' wouldn't surprise me if one occur when Chaney's indicted.

[Maven]

7. Holy. Shit.

:wow:

If this is what the NYTimes has, what has Fitzy got in his goodybag?

[cliss]

8. I knew it.

I KNEW that creep was behind this whole sordid affair. Just give it a few more days.....we'll know the details of the whole sordid mess.

And guess who will be the Black widow spider behind it all?

Cheney.

By the way, there's a small article about Lynne Cheney in the last Newsweek. They interviewed her about Old Dick. Man, she looks SO aged and haggard in the photo. She has huge bags under her eyes, she can hardly see out of them. Heh he

[0007]

19. Put a few liver spots on Lynne Cheney's face and she'd

pass as Harriet Miers.

[marylanddem]

64. The Republican idea of beauty. n/t

[grasswire]

68. ouch!

You know how to twist that shiv!

[Beetwasher]

9. Umm,This Could Only Come, I Think, From Libby's Lawyer

So, make of that what you will.

[marylanddem]

14. I think you're right

Libby has more to gain than to lose by fingering Cheney - wow.

[PurpleChez]

232. Fingering Cheney -- what an awful image. I'm sterile now.

[TahitiNut]

93. Not necessarily.

Obviously, it could be a leak from the grand jury or Fitzgerald ... but both have been pressure-tested to be leak-free at 200 meters below sea level so far.

Less obviously, it could come from some other White House staffer with inside information or from someone else to whom Libby or his lawyer confided in, possibly in some quid pro quo to keep their ass covered on some other issue.

While Libby's lawyer is the most obvious person in possession of this information, the question is: What the fuck does he have to gain by leaking this story at the 11th hour?

The most obvious (but hard for me to believe) answer would be that Libby is about to implicate Cheney - to hang the VP out to dry. After all, if he were to merely fall on his sword to protect Cheney, why leak this today?

[Beetwasher]

114. Actually, I Could Also See This As A Strategic Leak By Fitz To SQUEEZE

Libby. Cheney might very well assume Libby leaked this and be quite angry about it and start gunning for Libby, which might make Libby more amenable to deal w/ Fitz. It could be a strategic leak to drive a wedge between Cheney and Libby.

Would other WH insiders have access to Libby's notes and know about them in such detail and about his revealing them to Fitz? That seems unlikely to me. I see either Libby, his lawyer or Fitz leaking this.

[MadisonProgressive]

244. Don't forget Libbys girlfriend, Aspen.

[Halliburton]

96. good point

Libby's lawyer is pulling a luskin. Being anonymous for most of the article and then declining to comment on the record.

[IndianaGreen]

109. It may have come from David Wurmser's lawyer

I call your attention to the following Rawstory that was posted in LBN earlier today:

Wurmser, on orders from "executives in the office of the vice president," was told to leak her name to a specific group of reporters in an effort to muzzle her husband, Wilson, who had become a thorn in the side of the administration, those close to the inquiry say. It is unclear who Wurmser had spoken with in the media, the sources said, but they confirmed he did speak with reporters at national media outlets about Plame.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheney_aide_passed_Plames_name_to_1024.html

The only executive in the VP's office is Cheney. Libby is just a staffer.

[Beetwasher]

118. I Just Don't See Wurmser as Having Access To Libby's Notes

Or knowing that these contents were revealed to Fitz. It seems only Fitz, his team, Libby and his lawyer would know this. I could be wrong, but those seem like the most likely sources for this info.

[EuroObserver]

231. "Executives"

"The only executive in the VP's office is Cheney. Libby is just a staffer."

- And the Shrub, perhaps - since it's the Dick that's really in charge in the shadow WH.

[Tight_rope]

10. I was sure I smelled Rove all over this.

But not surprised this it was the most evil man in the world, Dick Cheney!

[capi888]

48. I Smell Rove too.....

I think not seeing Chaney at the Staff Meeting today and Rove was sitting there, tells the Story. Rove and Bush are squealing....on Libby and Chaney to save their own hides....As far as I am concerned,
THE BUCK STOPS AT THE DESK OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE OF HIS STAFF. HE IS THE ELECTED OFFICIAL. THEY ARE ALL IN CAHOOTS!!

[Kool Kitty]

142. Didn't Chris Matthews say that he spoke to Rove and

Rove told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game"? He mentioned it on his show in the early days of the investigation. Was Matthews ever subpoenaed?

[hedda_foil]

11. Holy fucking SHIT!!!!

I'm speechless! Not that he did it but that it's in the NYT as a leak this early.

[cantstandbush]

20. Ditto!!!

This is HUGE!!! The neocon-PNAC connection. CIA should let them have it all over the place. It shows that the lives of our undercover agents mean nothing if they stand in the way of the PNAC agenda.

[janx]

43. It probably means that the indictments are coming very soon.

Fitzgerald has done such a good job at preventing them during the investigation. Maybe it's not that necessary at this point, no?

[emulatorloo]

62. fitz has no control over libby and rove's lawyers, and that who this

stuff is coming from.

[janx]

66. Defense lawyers were the initial and constant leakers, yes.

But I'm wondering now whether the indictments are so near that real leaks are starting to emerge.

If Fitzgerald wraps this up in the next couple of days, these leaks aren't going to matter; he has what he needs.

[emulatorloo]

100. two scenarios for why Rove or Libby laywer

Rove's laywer -- see poor Karl and his brain-pan Bush are innocent! It was that mean Scooter and Cheney

or

Libby's laywer -- it wasn't scooter's fault! He is not obsessed like the LA times said. Dick told him! CHENEY CHENEY CHENEY -- set my scooter free.

[janx]

117. BAsed on that, it sounds like Libby's lawyer.

Definitely. Not that it's going to matter much. It just fuels the fire.

[xyboymil]

91. I cant believe they were DUMB enough to write notes on this!!

Holy crap..

now you have actual WRITTEN notes about all this.

Let the impeachment process begin! :wow:

[MadisonProgressive]

246. Yeah, I thought they'd learned from Nixon.

[Joe Chi Minh]

270. No, that's the weird thing. They actually feel, once they are

in power, that they are omnipotent - and in their case, that means, for ever! Probably even after they die! We can have no real conception of such short-term thinking and perspective, but it is their very hallmark.

Among all the other negative things power is said to do, it seems that it blinds its favoured nuts! Just like any caricature Dr Strangelove, Hitler, whoever.

In the Falklands, we had a psychopathic, young infantry officer, who was so exultant after bayoneting to death some pour young soul, begging pitiably for his life, that he stood on a mound, arms aloft crying some victorious twaddle. And what happens? Of course he get shot and seriously wounded. Bah! Who needs to keep a low profile when they're such a hot-shot!

[Nickster]

12. Holy Crap, I don't know what to believe anymore.

[back2basics909]

13. Who is "lawyers involved in the case"?

What are their motivations?

Havn't "lawyers involved in the case" always been Rove and Libbys?

[rodeodance]

211. maybe Libby's lawyer finally convinced that that loyality to Cheney

is his achelles heel?

[Just Me]

16. Dick is so fucked!!!!

:rofl:

[journalist3072]

54. Not necessarily

Here's the line that bothers me:

But they contain no suggestion that either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby knew at the time of Ms. Wilson’s undercover status or that her identity was classified. Disclosing a covert agent’s identity can be a crime, but only if the person who discloses it knows the agent’s undercover status.

It would not be illegal for either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby, both of whom are presumably cleared to know the government’s deepest secrets, to discuss a C.I.A. officer or her link to a critic of the administration. But any effort by Mr. Libby to steer investigators away from his conversation with Mr. Cheney could be considered by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, to be an illegal effort to impede the inquiry.

[AndrewJacksonFaction]

67. Same here.

That is line that got me too! The 2nd one.

[shockingelk]

89. conspiracy

It would be a crime for Cheney and Libby to talk if they were doing so for a criminal purpose.

IOW, their conversation would not be a crime, but if the intention of the conversation was about leaking a clandestine agent's identity, it would be a crime.

[TahitiNut]

105. Indeed, the question is what PURPOSE they had in discussing Plame.

The other question is whether Cheney LIED about when he knew about Wilson's wife and failed to disclose the conversation he had with Libby, and whether Libby's claim he'd heard about Plame from reporters was an attempt to cover for a Cheney lie when Cheney ws being questioned.

[shockingelk]

108. Right ...

Libby's testimony contradicts his own notes. It would be strange if Libby lied to the investigation without first getting the story straight with Cheney.

What I can't figure out is why anybody (Libby) would lie about notes known to be in the possession of the prosecutor. Maybe the lies happened while Ashcroft was still in the game.

[janx]

128. Maybe the notes were not in Fitzgerald's possession

(or known to Libby to be) when his testimony took place.

[rodeodance]

198. Fritz is/was digging for 'MOTIVATION"--the 'why'---did cheney et al

do what they did.

[lisa58]

225. Wasn't the memo that was on AirForce1 in July

originally written on June 10th? Libby's notes are dated June 12th. If Cheney's source is that memo it was marked classified. It still wouldn't be illegal for Cheney to discuss with Libby - but if they were planning how they were going to get it to the media, they would have known the information was classified.

[No Exit]

256. Doesn't matter! All indications are that Cheney LIED to Fitz and

that's a felony! Pls see my previous post.

[TexasRob]

284. The real issue

Is not about the leak. It seems that there is some question as to Plame's undercover status at the time anyway. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't covert. There may be enough gray area there that will make indictments for the leak impossible or at least very difficult. The real issue here is if Cheney, Libby, Rove, or anyone else in the administration tried to cover up the leak by lying to investigators. It won't be the initial leak that will bring anyone down, it will be what they did after the investigation was started that will do it. While it is fun to speculate as to who said what to whom, I think I'll wait for the indictments to come out before the celebration begins.

[MADem]

294. There is no issue as to her undercover status

Not as reported in the credible media, anyway. She WAS undercover, and her cover was blown.

[donkeyotay]

276. Being privileged to know secrets also carries responsibilities

My information for this comes from reading Larry Franklin's indictment. The GJ's general allegations include some information on what a government employee agrees to when they get security clearance. Here's part:

"Access to classified information at any level may be further restricted through compartmentation in SCI (Sensitive Compartmented Information) categories. Classified information, of any designation, may only be shared with persons determined by an appropriate U.S. government official to be eligible for access to classified information, who have signed an approved non-disclosure agreement and who possess a need to know." (emphasis added)

[Bacchus39]

308. yep, you got it

and if they conspired to leak the name then that would be criminal too, but the VP simply discussing a CIA agent is no crime.

[JoFerret]

17. Sready on now

...read the whole article.

[enough]

21. Right. The way this story is told, it's more of a problem for Libby

than for Cheney.

snip>

It would not be illegal for either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby, both of whom are presumably cleared to know the government’s deepest secrets, to discuss a C.I.A. officer or her link to a critic of the administration. But any effort by Mr. Libby to steer investigators away from his conversation with Mr. Cheney could be considered by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, to be an illegal effort to impede the inquiry.

snip>

and so forth. As JoFerret says, read the whole article.

[hang a left]

27. Not to mention the article states that Cheney got the information

from Tenent. BS. The info on Plame came from Bolton.

[Marie26]

296. What makes you think that?

Not disagreeing, I suspect Bolton too. What is the evidence that he had the info on Plame?

[Maven]

23. The only thing the article mentions to the contrary

is that (as we all know) it's only illegal to reveal the name of an agent if you know her classified status.

But it also said that Cheney got her name after "inquiring" (read: digging up dirt) into Wilson with none other than Tenet himself. So, c'mon, are you going to tell me that Tenet told Cheney about Plame being an agent, but somehow left out her classified status?

I don't believe that for a second.

[seaglass]

25. No wonder why Tenet got the Medal of Honor. n/t

[shanti]

71. really now...

do we get to strip it from tenet if he's indicted?

[rodeodance]

175. 'your doing a good job' sound familiar?

[rodeodance]

176. nominated ---spread this far and wide.

[janx]

29. Right, and later in the article it says:

Mr. Tenet was not available for comment on Monday night. But another former senior intelligence official said that Mr. Tenet had been interviewed by the special prosecutor and his staff in early 2004, and never appeared before the grand jury. Mr. Tenet has not talked since then to the prosecutors, the former official said.

The former official said he strongly doubted that the White House learned about Ms. Plame from Mr. Tenet.


Somebody's lyin'.

[MadisonProgressive]

249. Shouldn't it be illegal to give out an agents name

unless you KNEW that it wasn't classified?? You shouldn't be able to use a defense of ignorance on something this important to national security.

[Marnieworld]

262. Finally someone says this

This was my main response to this article but I wanted to read the thread before posting.

First if Tenet leaked her to Cheney he is a dead man. I mean this literally. It would be the supreme betrayal of the agency if he leaked a NOC status to Cheney for political revenge. It makes his whole "Slam Dunk" moment take on new meaning as if he was the CIA member of the WHIG. If he was a WHIG member then disclosing her to Cheney for the WHIG purposes would put him in the criminal conspiracy to silence critics of the war based on lies. Tenet should be very afraid this morning.

But also, I can't imagine Fitzgerald or even these now extremely informed grand jurors think that she was mentioned but her super secret status as a NOC working on the search for WMD didn't come up in the conversation. As if what does she do at the agency never occurred to them to ask? Defies all logic.

Hang em all Fitzie!

[saltpoint]

18. Oh my oh my that dastardly little rascal Dick Cheney!

He craves an assault on Iraq, pre-calculates Halliburton's massive profits on no-bid contracts, and damn it all, along comes Joe Wilson telling the TRUTH for Christ's sake about the yellow cake connection!

So in a characteristic surge of mean-spirited retaliation, the lizard-brained Cheney lets Libby leak Plame's name to the press.

What a pack of assholes this administration is.

May numerous indictments flow like a torrent from Fitz's desk.

[janx]

22. But WAIT A MINUTE. Read further:

Mr. Libby’s notes indicate that Mr. Cheney had gotten his information about Ms. Wilson from George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence, in response to questions from the vice president about Mr. Wilson. But they contain no suggestion that either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby knew at the time of Ms. Wilson’s undercover status or that her identity was classified. Disclosing a covert agent’s identity can be a crime, but only if the person who discloses it knows the agent’s undercover status.

More information is needed to prove that Cheney knew she was undercover. I have no doubt he did, given he got his information from Tenet--but proof is needed.

No wonder Tenet's not around anymore.

[Maven]

24. See my post above about this.

It would be a laughable defense on Cheney's part.

[marylanddem]

26. I think we can assume

that Tenet would've told Cheney her spy status - puhleeze, new york times. smoke, blowing smoke.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. Fitzgerald has questioned Tenet

One would think that would have been one of the questions he asked.

I feel like I reading a great mystery that's being mailed to me one chapter at a time.

[marylanddem]

55. You can't. I think this is just the New York Times

being a parakeet for whoever is giving them the information. Sorry - this was meant to reply to #28. I'm getting too excited to keep posting.
Woo hoo!

[NV Whino]

28. Okay, I'm a little confused here...

"Disclosing a covert agent’s identity can be a crime, but only if the person who discloses it knows the agent’s undercover status."

So, the question is: how can you disclose a covert agent's identity and not know she is a covert agent?

[Bacchus39]

309. because you many know someone works for CIA

but not know their status. I am not saying they didn't know but for a crime to be committed it has to be proven that you did in fact know that they had a covert status.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Did Cheney fail to reveal he heard Plame's name from Tenet?

Did Cheney fail to say that he heard that Joe Wilson's wife worked for CIA and that he was the one to tell Libby?

We might have an obstruction of justice here.

[leftchick]

59. Tenet was interviewed and I am sure he told the truth

for the first time in four years but at least he did.

[No Exit]

260. Doesn't matter whether Cheney knew she was undercover!

It is becoming apparent that Cheney LIED to Fitz. Whether or not he was under oath at the time, that means Cheney has committed a crime!

Pls read Jane Hamsher's excellent (and short) analysis of this at www.firedoglake.blogspot.com.

Here's an excerpt:

"Cheney was interviewed by Fitzgerald last year under oath. That would make it perjury to tell a lie. Although Republican logic tells us that perjury is only a crime if you're getting a blow job in the bargain, a legitimate US attorney might not see it that way.

What indication do we have that Cheney lied? Well, if Cheney had told the truth when he was interviewed last year, i.e., that he was Scooter Libby's source, Fitzgerald would not have needed to threaten Judy Miller and Matt Cooper with jail in order to counter Scooter Libby's testimony that he first heard about Valerie Plame's identity from journalists."

IOW, we can still get Cheney on a crime. Personally, I don't care what crime it is, I just want the bastard GONE.

[dave29]

30. So - WHAT DID CHENEY TELL FITZGERALD

while not under oath.

[Connie_Corleone]

34. It says in the article that Cheney was under oath while being interviewed.

I don't know if the NY Times got that right or not, because I thought he was NOT under oath.

[janx]

63. Yep. That's the first we've heard about that.

Was Chimpy under oath as well?

[Demoiselle]

88. Yeah, first time I've heard he was under oath....and furthermore...

Near the end, the article attributes the "Yeah, I heard that too" response to Libby. I thought that Rove says he said that to Matt Cooper after (Rove says) Matt Cooper told him he'd heard that Plame was CIA. I'm a titch confused.

[rainbow4321]

122. Even if *not* under oath...

if there is now evidence that shows he lied to Fitzgerald can Cheney not be charged w/ at the very least obstructing the investigation or lying to a federal investigator?? If he wasn't under oath than there can't technically be a "perjury" charge, is that right?
Just get the bastard out of office.... hopefully ANY kind of indictment will do just that!

[TNDemo]

31. About stuff found in notes...

How do they get these notes? Like Judith Miller and Libby's notes, etc., seems like they would get rid of them before having to turn them over.

[deadparrot]

32. It's being reported on AAR (Majority Report) right now.

:D

:bounce:

[jimshoes]

33. Majority Report just

picked up on this story on AAR.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

35. Better take in that pacemaker for a check-up, Evil Dick...

:evilgrin:

[dave29]

37. How funny is it that the Times is breaking this story

:)

[janx]

41. That was my thought, too. n/t

[JoFerret]

236. They are STEAMED

...many of them MIGHTY steamed at the disgrace of Judith Miller. they want retribution and restitution.

[MADem]

301. Reminds me of the inside baseball goings-on between the Post

and the NYT during Nixon. Watergate, Pentagon Papers...who has the best story????

[Connie_Corleone]

38. So much to dissect.

First, the article says that Cheney was under oath while being interviewed by Fitzgerald. I thought he wasn't. Maybe the NY Times is right, but who knows.

Did Cheney disclose this meeting?

Second, what did George Tenet tell the prosecutor about a conversation he may or may not had with Cheney about Plame?

Oh, how the White House Turns.

[DeepModem Mom]

Mamma mia!!! nt

[Cocoa]

40. so Scooter ratted out Cheney?

is that what this means?

[janx]

45. We don't know. It shows that Cheney was involved, though.

There are conflicting reports as to where he got his information (and consequently whether he knew she was covert). The quote from Miller saying that Libby was trying to guard Cheney says a lot.

[rodeodance]

173. maybe.

[journalist3072]

42. So does this mean

That Cheney could very well be charged with violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act? That would be HUGE!

And furthermore, who else did he tell?

Did he tell Bushie?

[janx]

47. Based on this information alone, no.

But some of this information is conflicting. The GJ probably had to sort through it all.

We'll know soon.

[journalist3072]

51. I know..

I just finished reading the entire article.

And I read the part that there's no indication that Cheney and Libby knew her covert status! That's the clincher right there.

[gristy]

107. Plausible deniability

They didn't know that Hussein didn't actually have any WMD's either. :puke:

[journalist3072]

135. You hit the nail on the head!! eom

[MadisonProgressive]

252. That makes no sense to me

Dick: Tell the reporters that his wife Valerie Plame who works at the CIA sent Wilson to Niger.

Scooter: But is she a covert operator?

Dick: I'm not really sure, so it's safe to expose her.

[rodeodance]

212. wash Jr in the loop? I do not know.

[AtomicKitten]

44. FromAMERICAblog.com

Cheney scooped Scooter about Plame
www.AMERICAblog.com

So the Veep is right smack in the middle of this scandal after all:

I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.

Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby’s testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said.

The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson’s husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration’s handling of intelligence about Iraq’s nuclear program to justify the war.

Lawyers said the notes show that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.

And it looks like Scooter forgot to tell Fitzgerald that salient piece of info:

Lawyers in the case said Mr. Libby testified to the grand jury that he had first heard from journalists that Ms. Wilson may have had a role in dispatching her husband on a C.I.A.-sponsored mission to Africa in 2002 in search of evidence that Iraq had acquired nuclear material there for its weapons program.

But the notes, now in Mr. Fitzgerald’s possession, also indicate that Mr. Libby first heard about Ms. Wilson — who is also known by her maiden name, Valerie Plame — from Mr. Cheney. That apparent discrepancy in his testimony suggests why prosecutors are weighing false statement charges against him in what they interpret as an effort by Mr. Libby to protect Mr. Cheney from scrutiny, the lawyers said.
Cheney scooped Scooter about Plame
by Joe in DC - 10/24/2005 09:24:00 PM

So the Veep is right smack in the middle of this scandal after all:

I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.

Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby’s testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said.

The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson’s husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration’s handling of intelligence about Iraq’s nuclear program to justify the war.

Lawyers said the notes show that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.

And it looks like Scooter forgot to tell Fitzgerald that salient piece of info:

Lawyers in the case said Mr. Libby testified to the grand jury that he had first heard from journalists that Ms. Wilson may have had a role in dispatching her husband on a C.I.A.-sponsored mission to Africa in 2002 in search of evidence that Iraq had acquired nuclear material there for its weapons program.

But the notes, now in Mr. Fitzgerald’s possession, also indicate that Mr. Libby first heard about Ms. Wilson — who is also known by her maiden name, Valerie Plame — from Mr. Cheney. That apparent discrepancy in his testimony suggests why prosecutors are weighing false statement charges against him in what they interpret as an effort by Mr. Libby to protect Mr. Cheney from scrutiny, the lawyers said.

[Catrina]

144. Maybe that's why Libby

said to Judy Miller that it would 'help us' if you testify. He wanted the Prosecutor to believe that he got the information from journalists because once Fitz knew that he and Cheney had talked about it, he knew he was screwed for trying to cover up.

That also explains why Judy suddenly found her notes. Libby's lawyer must have told the prosecutor that Libby and Judy had talked in June. If he could show that they talked before the Cheney conversation, Libby could still say he was telling the truth about getting the info from a journalist.

Which came first, Libby's conversation with Judy, or Libby's conversation with Cheney, I wonder. And if Wurmser was in the room when Libby talked to Cheney, then that's who told the prosecutor. And maybe he also heard Cheney say 'leak this to the press'.

But Judy did what she was asked to do. The Aspens are turning. That must be Wurmser and Hannah and maybe, Novak. And who knows who else!! That's all we know, but Fitz may have turned a few others.

[lisa58]

226. Libby's conversation with Cheney came first...

June 12th - Libby's conversation with Judy was June 21st or 23rd (don't remember offhand).

[Catrina]

277. Thanks

Then that blows my theory about Libby saying it would help them.

[rodeodance]

199. you betcha!

.....So the Veep is right smack in the middle of this scandal after all:

[journalist3072]

46. Let's not get too excited here....

I withdraw my previous question above regarding whether Cheney could be charged with violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

I just read the rest of the article, and here's what bothers me:

"But they contain no suggestion that either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby knew at the time of Ms. Wilson’s undercover status or that her identity was classified. Disclosing a covert agent’s identity can be a crime, but only if the person who discloses it knows the agent’s undercover status.

It would not be illegal for either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby, both of whom are presumably cleared to know the government’s deepest secrets, to discuss a C.I.A. officer or her link to a critic of the administration. But any effort by Mr. Libby to steer investigators away from his conversation with Mr. Cheney could be considered by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, to be an illegal effort to impede the inquiry."

[janx]

53. I noted the same thing in a post above. KEEP READING.

One CIA official who was interviewed doubted VERY much that Tenet was Cheney's source. Tenet has met with Fitzgerald.

Just keep reading.

[No Exit]

261. Whether or not Cheney violated the IIPA, they've still got him for felony!

It is becoming apparent that Cheney LIED to Fitz. Whether or not he was under oath at the time, that means Cheney has committed a crime!

Pls read Jane Hamsher's excellent (and short) analysis of this at www.firedoglake.blogspot.com.

Here's an excerpt:

"Cheney was interviewed by Fitzgerald last year under oath. That would make it perjury to tell a lie. Although Republican logic tells us that perjury is only a crime if you're getting a blow job in the bargain, a legitimate US attorney might not see it that way.

What indication do we have that Cheney lied? Well, if Cheney had told the truth when he was interviewed last year, i.e., that he was Scooter Libby's source, Fitzgerald would not have needed to threaten Judy Miller and Matt Cooper with jail in order to counter Scooter Libby's testimony that he first heard about Valerie Plame's identity from journalists."

IOW, we can still get Cheney on a crime. Personally, I don't care what crime it is, I just want the bastard GONE.

[DeepModem Mom]

49. Was Libby one of the Aspens that turned -- and he told Judy to come out?

n/t

[sofa king]

186. They all turn, together and inevitably.

Perhaps the most obvious explanation really is the answer. Perhaps Libby was telling Judy that everyone was compromised by various forms of connective evidence, so give up the ruse and come on out.

I'd like to hope so... but I'm having a little trouble doing it.

[Marie26]

298. But she kept on lying after getting that note

and didn't mention the June meeting w/Libby until Fitzgerald confronted her with it. That suggest to me that Libby was saying the opposite - protect us & our agenda by covering this up.

[AlCzervik]

50. HOLY COW!!! Libby's lawyer perhaps?

[rodeodance]

193. its every man (or woman) for themselves now.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. Notice the specific leak from the WH to the Daily News today

Bush pissed at Cheney for being too involved in pre-war intelligence.

Could they be cutting Cheney loose? Wouldn't that be a sight to see! Especially now that it is established that anyone indicted for anything will step down...

Whoooo Nelly....

[janx]

58. I noticed that too.

In addition, Chimpy has gone from calling it "background noise" to saying it's "very serious."

Good grief.

[regnaD kciN]

213. It's very serious background noise!

;-)

[emulatorloo]

98. now it will be "Poor President Bush and Karl Rove, misled by Scooter&Dick"

anthing to protect Bush and his Brain.

[tridim]

113. Facing prison, Dick will not bow out quietly

This is gonna get real good, real fast.

[MADem]

297. He will not face prison, even if Monkey is pissed at him

Lynne will write a tell all if Dick does not trot free.

Remember Cap Weinberger? He told Poppy, in an Edward G. Robinsonesque snarl, that he wasn't gonna take the fall for him. So Poppy did what he had to do, issue a blanket pardon before the guy ever got near a courtroom.

[ClintonTyree]

227. But bush was the one with the hard-on for Iraq from the start.....

along with all of the other PNACers of course, remember his remarks about "fuck Saddam" and his almost manic interest in the Iraq attack? Junior scolding Cheney for being too involved in pre-war intelligence is disingenuous. bush wanted nothing better than a chance to "finish what daddy started" in Iraq.
Now we're supposed to believe that bush was mislead, lied to and is an innocent victim of over zealous members of his administration? Bullshit!

[ClayZ]

56. Fat Lady is plugging in the microphone!

[lse7581011]

237. Oh Please Let Her Sing Today! n/t

[RedEarth]

57. Dick the question is ..... WWSD ...???

Dick What Would Spiro Do ????

[SayitAintSo]

99. Thought that was ...

what would SATAN do ...

[Kool Kitty]

143. That's the same thing, isn't it?

[callady]

60. One of the most corrupt bastards on the planet-Dick Cheney

Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds

RAW STORY

An analysis released by a Democratic senator found that Vice President Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html



Tuesday, October 11, 2005


He glows red
From Spitting Image, a great photograph entitled, I think, Little Lord Fauntelroy meets Beelzebub. Speaking of the Devil, his Halliburton stock options have been calculated to have gone up in value a mere 3,281 percent in the last year. I've written about this:

"The Cheney-Halliburton connection has to be the largest and most blatant example of corruption in modern American history. Cheney is the effective President of the United States, and is clearly behind the awarding of massive contracts to a corporation that continues to pay him. If this were happening in Nigeria we'd sneer at the corruption, but in the American context it is beyond belief. Spiro Agnew had to resign over allegations that he received payoffs from engineers seeking contracts when he was Baltimore county executive and governor of Maryland. Spiro had nothing on Dick. The amounts of money Spiro stole would be chump change for Cheney.

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/

[deadparrot]

61. You know, I've scanned this whole thread, and I haven't seen any popcorn.

:popcorn:

Any takers?

[Sparkly]

65. It's gonna be a fun week!!

:popcorn:

[janx]

75. It might be rough, ultimately.

I want justice done as much as anyone, but it's going to be a bit rocky for the country.

Still, Sparkly, I can enjoy the beginnings of the process, if you'll only twist my arm a little. ;-)

[DesertRat]

120. I'd like some Merlot with that popcorn.

:popcorn:

[lovuian]

70. Ok Cheney Knew!!! Hello NYT welcome!!! but do I TRUST your

story NO!!! what happened about the story Cheney found out from Colin Powell on Air Force One from that file???

Tenet involved seems skeptical!!!

But yes CHENEY KNEW AND TOLD SCOOTER!!! Welcome NYT to the Big Show!!!

Do I TRUST YOU??? NO!!!

[bigbrother05]

207. Thank you

A lot of pieces to the puzzel out there, this whole story just didn't sound right.

[dweller]

72. repost from 10/18/03

http://www.mikehersh.com/printer_All_Roads_Lead_To_Cheney.shtml
Novak Intelligence Leak: All Roads Lead To Cheney
By William Francis (PP), Oct 18, 2003

Regarding the Wilson intelligence scandal: We need to realize that everything Bush, Novak, and McClellan are SAYING is absolutely true. But everything they're telling us is a lie. We have to remember to listen carefully to the exact words.

Novak originally said that the information about Wilson's wife came from, "two senior administration officials." this is true.

Novak also says that, "Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this." this is also true.

There is one man in the world who is BOTH a senior administration official, and does not release information from the administration (from the White House).

There is one man in the world who is a senior administration official, but is not officially (constitutionally) a member of the administration.

There is one man in the world who invested his reputation and resources in the Niger yellowcake story, more than any other.

There was one man in the world who knew of Wilson's trip to Niger as well as he knew about the identity of Wilson's wife.

In preparing his July 14 article, "Mission to Niger," there was one man in the world who Robert Novak would have contacted before any other.

The man's name is Dick Cheney.

more at link.

:popcorn:
dp

[Oilwellian]

73. These new notes date closely to the first Libby/Miller meeting

And it sounds like Libby was set up to commit perjury just like Judy was. Fitzgerald is a genius to get both of these snakes to commit perjury, only to come back at them with additional evidence (notes) that conflicts with their testimony. How does Fitz know about these notes?

Judy sang alto and let's hope Scooter sings tenor. :D

[janx]

76. Dick's going to sing soprano,

if this situation flushes out the way we think it might. ;-)

[Oilwellian]

81. ROFL!

Ohhh! Does it get any grander than this? :D

[janx]

84. No. No, it does not. I'm beginning to think these leaks are

very measured at this point.

CNN already has graphics and theme music for WHITEHOUSE UNDER FIRE.

(I am not kidding.)

[shanti]

157. not much!

cheney has been the 'bad guy' from day one. schadefreude, for real!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

74. What is Libby's security clearance? Is Cheney telling Libby illegal?

Surely the REASON Libby was told was bad, but did he have the right?

[janx]

78. There's still too much unknown at this point to judge.

Did Cheney really get his information from Tenet? Did Tenet tell Cheney that Plame was covert?

That much we still do not know. But you can bet Fitzgerald does.

[moc]

79. Yes, please someone answer this question

Did Libby have the security clearance to receive the information from Cheney?

Furthermore, isn't there also the NEED to know not just whether one had the clearance?

[understandinglife]

90. I can have the most sensitive security clearance available ...

.... and you can have the same clearance, and if I share one tiny little chunk of classified information with you that you do not have "a need to know," I'm in trouble.

Very, very few people had a "need to know" anything about Valerie Plame Wilson, Brewster/Jennings, etc. Very, very few.

Certainly, no one ever "had a need to know" in order to out her, and, thereby, intentionally or otherwise, trash all the intelligence infrastucture ever associated with her -- which included Brewster/Jennings, and perhaps much more that we have no knowledge. But, I assure you the intelligence services of every other country on the planet were digging into every single contact Valerie Plame Wilson ever had within moments of Novak's story hitting the wire.

Traitors; the whole damn lot of them.

This is treason. Period.


Peace.

[EuroObserver]

241. As an aside - I notice that European press

I read (mostly from UK and Spain) appears very reluctant to mention Brewster Jennings & Associates.

- I guess there's a desire not to unnecessarily add to the damage already done in that area...

[debbierlus]

80. Does anyone have a sense of what is going to happen?

Lots of yummy tidbits

Lots of possibilities.

But, I am having a hard time connecting the dots.

What charges do you think will be brough? Does this mean that Fitzgerald is going to go for an espionage charge or a broad conspiracy charge? Any lawyers on the board?

I have read all the breaking articles on Raw Story but I haven't been able to get a clear summation. Obviously, we will have to wait for Fitzgerald to bring the indictments, but I wonder if anybody has a better sense of it.

Just curious. Thanks all!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[symbolman]

148. I've created a film called "Rove's War" that explains it all

at Takebackthemedia.com - getting some good reviews coming in so far from a few folks, waiting to hear from those who've studied this how close I came to fulfilling the overview of how all this went down..

I researched this for over a year and the film has a chronology so that folks can figure out what the hell was going all for those YEARS..

Have a look at my site: http://www.takebackthemedia.com and you can see the lyrics for my song I covered for the film "Secret Agent Plame" which Randi Rhodes sang TWICE on Friday on her show :)

[JoFerret]

240. Great stuff. Recommended as must viewing

.

[symbolman]

243. Hey JoFerret

did you get a chance to view it? Tell me more :)

Thanks for the Recommend!

[calimary]

217. Welcome to DU!

It's nuts. Just nuts!

People here have already wondered aloud if it could get any better. Well, it could. If all roads led directly to georgie-poo, that'd be enough for me! The idea that the dick might actually get a nice Irish bris, however, is utterly delightful! :evilgrin:

Glad you're here. It may start getting rather fun around here - lots of rowdy fun, too, I'll bet. But we don't know squat, officially, yet. I just hope to see heads rolling...

Visualize IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!!!!!
Then go DO something about it.

[swag]

83. The esteemed Steve Clemons speculates

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001026.html

The question is how did Libby then churn up more info on Wilson without other parts of the "untrusted" bureaucracy spitting in his face or reporting his sins?

My hunch is that he went to trusted spear-carriers for Vice President Cheney -- the office and staff of Under Secretary of State John Bolton. Fred Fleitz, Bolton's chief of staff, maintained his CIA WINPAC portfolio and access as an active duty CIA staff member while he operated as Bolton's "acting" chief of staff. We know that Fleitz was a key part of the intelligence cherry-picking/stove-piping operation when it came to both the intel and policy response to various global WMD concerns -- in North Korea, Libya, Iran, and Iraq.

We also know that David Wurmser and John Hannah, who have both apparently cooperated after threats of legal action (i.e., time behind bars) with Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald worked both for John Bolton's operation and the Vice President's office.

I recently consulted with a number of senior State Department officials about the level of interaction between Vice President Cheney's office and John Bolton's office -- and was informed that there was "intense" exchange between them, constant. One said that "Bolton and his team were operatives of Vice President Cheney inside the State Department establishment -- there to subvert Armitage and Powell wherever they could, and if not subvert, then there to spy on the them and report back.

TWN knows nothing more than what it speculates to be a plausible scenario. Tonight, I consulted with three senior State Department officials, one currently at the State Department and two who are now outside the Department. All three of them agreed that the scenario I have described about Fleitz being the source of information about Plame's covert WINPAC role -- and this information then passing from Fleitz and/or Bolton to Scooter Libby "is not unbelievable."

Patrick Fitzgerald does not need to prove that Fleitz and Bolton added to the information that Libby had from Vice President Cheney. It's not part of the case if Fitzgerald is focusing narrowly on discrepancies and untruthfulness in Libby's testimony -- or focusing on the act then of spreading these rumors about Plame to non-cleared members of the media.

[Lorien]

85. Woot! NOW we're talking!!

and now the question remains; how much did * know?

[janx]

86. Again, WAIT A MINUTE.

If Dick and Scooter didn't know that Valerie was covert, then what possible motive would they have for pushing reporters all over this?

"His wife sent him" does not cut it. No way, no how.

They knew she was covert.

[xyboymil]

94. He KNEW...Tenet was the HEAD of the CIA. He knew exactly who she was,..

and so did they. Im sure if Tenent told Cheney of Plames job, he also told her what she does there.

Tenet: "You know his wife work here."

Cheney: Really? What is it that she does?"

Seems logical to me.

[janx]

119. I don't think Tenet told Cheney anything.

He would have resented Cheney's intrusion, and rightfully so.

[Marie26]

299. MSNBC reported that Tenet denies telling Cheney her name n/t

[carolinalady]

87. Sorry-does not add up. Notes don't just suddenly appear. This

is the WH attempt to lock up the case against Libby in hopes of preventing additional indictments. MSM has swallowed the kool-aid once again.

[shockingelk]

112. Recall Ashcroft was once in charge of the probe

Persons involved might have at first had confidence the investigation would by design not come up with anything.

If that's the case, such persons would have to choose between contradicting their own testimony, or sticking with whatever they said before Fitzgerald got involved.

[usregimechange]

95. Smoking Gun on Libby, Perjury

[usregimechange]

97. Kicked, mediablasted...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

101. Well, Dick...that was DEFINITELY a "bozo-no-no".....

...unless this is yet another red herring designed to protect (drum roll, please!)........Herr Busch.

[xyboymil]

102. Scarborough: "Make no mistake folks.. Repubilcan party is in deep trouble"

Just wrapped up his interviews over this latest bombshell.

He clearly acknowledges the WH is screwed over this. He said Cheney's name will be all over every major US newspaper and regardless of whether he's indicted or not, the reputation of the WH and the Republicans is done.

This coming from a Republican no less. :wow:

[yellowcanine]

116. What we have here is an undicted co-conspirator. Cheney has to resign or

be impeached.

[carolinalady]

130. stupid question--if he is an unindicted co conspirator will they

name him?

[regnaD kciN]

216. They named Nixon...

...when the same thing happened thirty-one years ago.

[grasswire]

179. he also said....

...that Republicans should care about this story because if it were James Carville who had outed a covert op Republicans would be screaming their heads off.

[calimary]

218. No shit? Damn, sorry I missed that one. THAT would have been sweet

to see. Ordinarily scarborough is one of those mindless yappers on whom I try not to waste much time. But it's good to hear, anyway. These are YOUR people, joe. Howdya feel? Happy now? Still smug? Still feeling more righteous-than-thou, and more-patriotic-than-thou? Evidently not.


:party:

[belle]

221. From a guy who had a dead intern in his office and still has a career,

that's really saying something, isn't it.

[callady]

104. It's all about the Niger Nuclear Hoax- War Crimes

FITZGERALD FOCUSING ON DIRECT CHENEY INVOLVEMENT: Bloomberg reported, “A special counsel is focusing on whether Vice President Dick Cheney played a role in leaking a covert CIA agent’s name, according to people familiar with the probe that already threatens top White House aides Karl Rove and Lewis Libby.”

CHENEY INTERVIEWED BY FEDERAL PROSECUTORS: “Vice President Dick Cheney was recently interviewed by federal prosecutors who asked whether he knew of anyone at the White House who had improperly disclosed the identity of an undercover C.I.A. officer. Mr. Cheney was also asked about conversations with senior aides, including his chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby . In addition, those people said, Mr. Cheney was asked whether he knew of any concerted effort by White House aides to name the officer. It was not clear how Mr. Cheney responded to the prosecutors’ questions. was not questioned under oath and he has not been asked to appear before the grand jury.”

CHENEY SEEMS TO BE THE COMMON DENOMINATOR: Four members of the Vice President’s staff — “Scooter” Libby, John Hannah, Mary Matalin, and Catherine Martin — have either been implicated in the leak or testified before the grand jury. In addition, Stephen Hadley worked under Cheney at the Defense Department and is considered by some to be his “eyes and ears” on the NSC staff.

CHENEY AND LIBBY PRESSURED CIA ON URANIUM: Cheney and Libby visited the CIA headquarters to engage the CIA analysts directly on this issue of uranium acquisition in Africa, “creating an environment in which some analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments fit with the Bush administration’s policy objectives.”
http://www.thinkprogress.org/leak-scandal#cheney



Dick Cheney's Covert Action

Larry C. Johnson

October 19, 2005

Larry Johnson worked as a CIA intelligence analyst and State Department counter-terrorism official.  He is a member of the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).

Face it, America. You’ve been punk'd.

It is now quite clear that the outing of Valerie Plame was part of a broader White House effort to mislead and manipulate U.S. public opinion as part of an orchestrated effort to take us to war. The unraveling of the Valerie Plame affair has exposed their scam—and it extends well beyond compromising the identity of a CIA officer. In short, the Bush administration organized and executed a classic “covert action” program against the citizens of the United States.

Covert action refers to behind-the-scenes efforts by U.S. intelligence agencies to plant stories, manipulate information and shape public opinion. In other words, you write stories that reporters will publish as their own, you create media events that tout a particular theme, and you demonize your opponent. Traditionally, this activity was directed against foreign governments. For example, the U.S. used covert action extensively in Greece in the 1960s to help fend off communists. Covert action also played a major role in rallying world support for the Afghanistan mujahideen following the Soviet invasion in 1979.

Revelations during the past week about the Plame affair make it clear that the Bush administration used covert action against its own citizens. Consider, for example, the charge that Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Niger. The key event in this disinformation campaign was the intelligence manufactured by the Italians. The Italian intelligence service, SISME, provided the CIA with three separate intelligence reports that Iraq had reached an agreement with Niger to buy 500 tons of yellowcake uranium (October 15, 2001; February 5, 2002; and March 25, 2002). The second report, from February, was the subsequent basis for a DIA analysis, which led Vice President Cheney to ask the CIA for more information on the matter. That request led to the CIA asking Ambassador Joe Wilson to go check out the story in Niger.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20051019/dick_cheneys_covert_action.php

[donheld]

111. Sounds about right.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

[GetTheRightVote]

115. Perhaps our nation is saved from these criminals after all

It could've have come sooner but better late then never !!

:kick:

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

121. Tucker Carlson was SO confused about this story

I just happened to be flipping channels and noticed what he was talking about.

Rachel Maddow was on and made sense.

Howard Fineman was on briefly.

What a strange way to learn of a story.

:wow:

[Halliburton]

124. I'm confused too

what was the goal of Libby/Rove's lawyers in leaking this? I'm guessing it's someone in Scooter's camp

[alcuno]

123. John Dean said Cheney said he didn't know Wilson or who sent him.

I had been thinking the same thing tonight about Cheney's public statements. Dean thought that in September (after the leak) Cheney was on (maybe MTP) saying that he didn't know Wilson and didn't know who sent him. That would be a lie since Tenet apparently told him about Wilson and his wife. The plot thickens.

[LizW]

131. Yep, Cheney said it on MTP.

Of course that was only the 98,734,586,720,388th lie Cheney told on MTP.

I just hope he also lied to Fitzgerald. That's obstruction of justice.

[mb7588a]

126. Easy now, DU...

All this says FOR SURE is that Libby purjered himself.

If Tenet didn't tell Cheney about her covert status, then he's fine. But if Libby learned of her covert status from the media like he says, and confirmed it, then he's in more trouble.

[Halliburton]

129. we also need to take into account

that this came from Libby's camp. Libby's camp had some sort of purpose in leaking this. we just don't know what it is. but this story is big nonetheless! :popcorn:

[carolinalady]

132. Do we know for sure it came from Libby's camp? I think it came

from Cheney's to rap Libby up.

[janx]

133. Look carefully at what it says. It tries to exonerate Libby,

while still covering for Cheney. "If they didn't know she was covert..."

Definitely Libby lawyer material.

[opihimoimoi]

136. The Splints R US guys are handing out DICK SPLINTs for those who got

their dicks stepped on by the revelation/leak/notes/slip

Cheney has his dick in a vice right now..and he may need help beyond splints...

[janx]

137. In one post above, I wasn't talking about his penis--

but the sentiment and preDICtion is still the same.

This administration's contempt for the American people has been its ultimate downfall.

[opihimoimoi]

139. LOL, I know....I was just posting Dick's dick is in a sling now that he is

OUTTED as the source.....

[janx]

141. A toast...

:toast:

[opihimoimoi]

146. TOAST...BUSH is Toast.

:toast: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :beer: :bounce:
:toast: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :beer: :bounce:
:toast: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :beer: :bounce:
:golf: :surfing:
:more Luaus: :toast: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :beer: :bounce:

[truthisfreedom]

145. NYT is reporting this? that's it. I'M RENTING A POPCORN CART BEFORE

there's a run on them. 8^)

and i'm melting 40 pounds of real butter!

[redacted]

147. This is spin planted by the Bush administration.

If you knew that Libby was going to be indicted on obstruction and Cheney would be an unindicted co-conspirator -- and you wanted to start a defense of "well they have this piece of paper and it proves nothing ILLEGAL happened" wouldn't you leak something like this?

It sounds an awfully like Kay Bailey Hutchinson said of Meet the Press this Sunday -- she said something to the effect that Fitzgerald will likely indict for obstruction of justice because he was not able to prove a "REAL" crime occurred.

This is the republican spin machine. Read between the lines.

Like this:

"Some lawyers in the case have said Mr. Fitzgerald may face obstacles in bringing a false-statement charge against Mr. Libby. They said it could be difficult to prove that he intentionally sought to mislead the grand jury.

Lawyers involved in the case said they had no indication that Mr. Fitzgerald was considering charging Mr. Cheney with wrongdoing. Mr. Cheney was interviewed under oath by Mr. Fitzgerald last year. It is not known what the vice president told Mr. Fitzgerald about the conversation with Mr. Libby or when Mr. Fitzgerald first learned of it."

Well of course they have no indication Cheney will be charged. They are not Fitz's people -- they are from the administration side. Anyway -- unindicted co-conspirator wouldn't be a charge. And saying that a false statement charge against Libby would be difficult -- that is another spin tactic. Just like saying: "Well you know it's not something they will be able to prove. The prosecution will just fall apart He's an overzealous prosecutor."

I put my money on Libby indicted on perjury and possibly obstruction and Cheney as an unindicted co-conspirator.

[rodeodance]

174. whatever--Fineman said it right--the real issue is that the WH will stop

at nothing to sell their war. He said this on Joe. Scarbourgh show tonight.

[hang a left]

149. Cheney, Libby May Be at Odds Over CIA Leak-Case Investigation

Cheney, Libby May Be at Odds Over CIA Leak-Case Investigation

Oct. 25 (Bloomberg) -- A fissure may be opening between Vice President Dick Cheney and his top aide over the investigation into the leak of a covert CIA agent's identity.

I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, first learned of agent Valerie Plame's identity in a conversation with Cheney weeks before her name became public in July 2003, the New York Times reported last night, citing lawyers involved in the case.

The disclosure doesn't indicate that the vice president did anything wrong, said a senior Republican with ties to Cheney. The person declined to make a similar statement about Libby.

The senior Republican, who spoke on condition of anonymity, sought to portray Cheney as uninvolved in any violation of a 1982 law forbidding the revelation of a covert intelligence agent's identity. The official noted that both Cheney and Libby had the security clearances necessary to discuss Plame's identity.


snip>

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a1Q4b0Hy7Ikc&refer=top_world_news

[Carolab]

150. Sure. So who told who to do what and with whom? n/t

[fooj]

151. Is that why Scooter was sporting crutches today?

BWAHAHAHAHA!

peace.

[deadparrot]

152. Uh oh...

[Hissyspit]

153. Maybe they'll all eat each other in a frenzy and we'll be rid of them. nt

[leveymg]

154. CHENEY WAS LIBBY'S SOURCE!!!!!TENET WAS CHENEY'S SOURCE!!!!!

Wow! That means that Cheney's going to get nailed for False Statement (Obstruction of Justice, USC 1001), a felony. It matters not at all that he may not have violated the IIPA.

The Times report focuses new attention on Cheney's role in an affair that holds serious legal and political jeopardy for top officials in President George W. Bush's administration. Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald is nearing the end of a 22- month investigation into potential criminal wrongdoing in the leaking of Plame's identity and is believed to be considering indictments against top White House officials, including Libby and deputy chief of staff Karl Rove.

The Times said it based its account on Libby's notes from a June 12, 2003, meeting between him and Cheney. According to lawyers involved in the case who described Libby's notes to the Times, they indicate Cheney got his information about Plame from George Tenet, then director of the Central Intelligence Agency.

:woohoo: :popcorn:

[rodeodance]

155. Joe Scarbourgh said this case will explode tomorrow morning when the

Times hits the newsstands.

[rodeodance]

156. Joe was talking of the WH being in deep trouble with this new story.

He was on msnbc Rita Cosby show now.

[rodeodance]

158. msnbc--Joe Scarbourough talking of this on his show NOW.

[rodeodance]

159. yes NOW. 'cheney at center of cia investigation"

[rodeodance]

160. Howard Fineman says 'sensational" story.

[rodeodance]

161. Fineman saying it was Dick Cheney 'who got the story going"

[rodeodance]

162. saying Tenet was telling of Plame's identify! --he served Cheney!

[rodeodance]

163. question of Law--was it Cheney passing infor. or was it Libby protecting

his boss--is the legal question!

[rodeodance]

164. Larry O'Donnell--who started to move the information is the question.

[rodeodance]

165. 'the name Cheney will appear in headlines all over the country tomorrow"

[rodeodance]

166. "Libby told grand jury he does not remember"--could be perjury charge.

[rodeodance]

167. Why is Fritzgerald's office leaking this on the eve of the grand jury

going out of business. asks Carl Tucker.

[rodeodance]

168. Why would Fritz office leak this now?--is the question to Fineman but

he is talking of why important to us-the joe on the street guy.
Fineman says important---WH stop at nothing to sell the war!! Good for him.

[rodeodance]

169. Fineman says Libby 'giving up the VP"

[rodeodance]

170. Fineman says that until now Libby or Libby's lawyer --was willing to

stand behind the VP--but not now. McDonnell does not agree.

[rodeodance]

171. Fineman says not good for WH to have Cheney in headlines all over

tomorrow. Damaging!!

[rodeodance]

172. oh--this makes my day (or night).--as I missed the news last evening.

[maddezmom]

177. mine, too

thanks for the recap. :D

[rodeodance]

178. kick

[The_Casual_Observer]

180. This is the end, my only friend, the end.

[johncoby2]

181. USATODAY: Cheney cited as source of Plame Leak!!!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-25-cheney-leak_x.htm

NEW YORK (AP) — Documents in the CIA leak investigation indicate the chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney first heard of the covert CIA officer from Cheney himself, The New York Times reported in Tuesday editions.

The newspaper said notes of a previously undisclosed June 12, 2003 conversation between I. Lewis Libby and Cheney appear to differ from Libby's grand jury testimony that he first heard of Valerie Plame from journalists. The newspaper identified its sources as lawyers who are involved in the case.

[rodeodance]

182. NYTimes broke the story--see this DU thread. But glad to see it in USA.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1874364

[Bluebear]

183. Then he belongs in prison. nt

[Bozita]

184. That's the lead story on KGO radio news

http://www.kgoam810.com/listenlive/listenlive.ram

[Hatalles]

185. This story has made Yahoo's front page.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051025/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_investigation

[rodeodance]

192. Love the headline---cheney name splattered all over!!

[rodeodance]

187. even Andrea Mitchell on Hardball (rerun) is saying many problems

at the WH.

[rodeodance]

189. Matthews talking about how this case will re-open the reasons for war.

[rodeodance]

190. Mitchell saying it will reopen the war case on a world-wide!! I hope.

[rodeodance]

191. Tom DeFrank--Kay Baily Huchenson remark was 'dopey' te he-he

was talking about her comment about perjery being a technicality!

[No Exit]

264. Gosh, the WH must've been late with her paycheck! n/t

[lumpy]

188. This case is becoming more clear.

Cheney was well aware about J.Wilson's role in the US government.
Cheney certainly knew Wilson's wife V.Plame was working within the CIA. Nothing illegal about that, even of Cheney was informed by Tenet.
Cheney passed this sensitive information on to I.S.Libby.
Libby probably passed this info about V.Plame on to more than one person probably with a subtle nod from Cheney.
IMHO this was retribution for Wilson's refusal to go along with the yellow cake story, his stance against the war and a futile attempt to discredit Mr. Wilson.

[rodeodance]

194. and H. Fineman got it right--The WH will stop at nothing to sell the war.

He put the focus where it belongs-the motivation for cheney et all.

[rodeodance]

195. Gregory saying on Hardball--the WH is extremely nervous right now.

Hardball rerun on now.

[rodeodance]

196. WH is putting out the image of normalicy--going on with distractions.

[rodeodance]

197. Michael Isikoff---the idea of Irag reconstituting its nuclear arsenol--VP

pushed this hard. aluminum claims (judy miller in nytimes)turned out to be false. and that Irag is trying to buy yellow cake from Africa. also false (per Wilson) and the WH pushed back hard.

and here we are!!!!

[Up2Late]

202. VP Cheney linked to CIA leak case: report (AFP)

(But didn't we all know this all along? RW strategy prediction, say it's really no big deal.)

VP Cheney linked to CIA leak case: report

25/10/2005 06h55


55941055 ©AFP - JIM WATSON

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Vice President Dick Cheney was linked to a case involving a leak to journalists of an undercover CIA agent's identity, according to a report in the New York Times.

The report on the newspaper's website, citing lawyers involved in the case, said that notes taken by I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff who has been questioned in the investigation of the leak, show that Libby learned of the identity of the agent from the vice president.

The notes appear to contradict Libby's testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about Valerie Wilson, also known by her maiden name as Valerie Plame, from journalists, the Times said.

A special prosecutor and a grand jury are investigating the disclosure of her identity, allegedly in retaliation for critical comments made to the media by her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, which contradicted one of US President George W. Bush's justifications for waging war against Iraq.

<http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/051025064013.34l8nqgc.html>
(more at link above)

[rodeodance]

203. yup--these headlines are sweet.

[rodeodance]

205. 4. 3 stars on yahoo news. rate it up folks

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051025/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_investigation;_ylt=AkIfFSVzg37itaa23F1UyBas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

RECOMMEND THIS STORY

Recommend It:

Average (481 votes)
4.3 stars

[Barrett808]

274. "White House Sidesteps Cheney Questions" -- new headline n/t

[leftchick]

219. omg! they really used that photo with the story!

:rofl:

[Up2Late]

302. I know!!! I couldn't resist including it.

I can almost hear the disgusting things he's muttering to himself.

Grrr, what that French Photographer doing??? Grrr.

[JesterCS]

206. CNN onboard

Running it now on their website!


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/25/cia.leak.probe.ap/index.html

[rodeodance]

209. Great -they have the nytimes story with Cheney name in headline.

NYT: Cheney cited as aide's source in CIA leak probe

Tuesday, October 25, 2005; Posted: 2:41 a.m. EDT (06:41 GMT)

story.vert.libby.file.jpg
I. Lewis Libby in a 2001 file photograph.

The Politics of Truth


NEW YORK (AP) -- Documents in the CIA leak investigation indicate the chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney first heard of the covert CIA officer from Cheney himself, The New York Times reported in Tuesday editions.

[osaMABUSh]

215. Indictments should come Wednesday

as panel meets Weds. and Fridays - with this Friday being last day

[GeorgeGist]

220. The Asspals are turning...

their holes are all connected.

[lanlady]

224. I'll wager that Cheney was Judy's secret source--

--the one she really went to jail to protect. Remember there's still a "mystery source" that Judy has yet to identify, and it coincides with a trip she took to Jackson Hole in 6/2003.

[PurpleChez]

228. Fry, you sick bastard! Fry!

Maybe the stress will give Darth Cheney another heart attack. But I'd rather see him face justice. Then he can have an attack. I can wish nothing good for this evil, evil turd-crumb.

[Massachusetts]

230. "Maybe the stress will give Darth Cheney another heart attack"

One can only hope, but keep him alive so that he and his family name are humiliated for eternity! These people are EVIL and they deserve all the retribution and humiliation thats headed their way!

[PurpleChez]

306. Right on!

[Wetzelbill]

229. Gee I never would have guessed Cheney would do something like this

Sarcasm! Sarcasm!

[complain jane]

251. LOL

[EuroObserver]

234. Remember that quote from Lawrence Wilkerson - FT

FT.com of Oct 20 (London Time) - the Transcript (a must read) of his talk at the New America Foundation and the article Cheney 'cabal' hijacked foreign policy:

"...the case that I saw for four-plus years was a case that I have never seen in my studies of aberrations, bastardizations, perturbations, changes to the national security decision-making process. What I saw was a cabal between the vice president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made. And then when the bureaucracy was presented with the decision to carry them out, it was presented in a such a disjointed, incredible way that the bureaucracy often didn’t know what it was doing as it moved to carry them out. "

And this from Oct 12: News Orgs Working On Story Tying Cheney Into Plamegate.

[MadisonProgressive]

242. THIS IS HUGH111111111 SERIES11111111111

[shantipriya]

245. Cheney

Is there a way Fitzgerald can rope in that SOB Rumsfeld?

[Justice]

247. Why did Libby not tell Cheney about the notes?

Seems pretty strange to me that Libby would let Cheney hang out there and not tell him - whoops I wrote it all down!

[Zynx]

250. This is HUGH!!!!!!1111

SERIESLY! I had to do the Freeper imitation.

[robbedvoter]

253. As long as this doesn't het Rove off the hook - pretty please!

I am not a crook!

[angryxyouth]

263. Ok then, Who is going to steer the Boat, Condi ??

In another few weeks Bush will be in rehab. Shit, But before that he will be a drunken lunatic with the keys to the bomb and no one who will stand up to him to tell him what to do. Can we start pushing Downing Street again? Maybe this time both Houses will do something, and we can get a clean sweep. Come on Conyers we have the power play, take the shot!! :nuke:

[No Exit]

266. News blurb I'd like to see:

"The S.S. George W. Bush sank this evening, 20 degrees south of the Axis of Evil. There were no survivors."

[JJackFlash]

305. ROTFL

Ooh, that's nice.
Their lifeboats had been sent to the Persian Gulf ... they had a lot of rope, but only managed to hang themselves ...

[Crux of the Biscuit]

265. They are really trying to turn up the distraction kettle...

Just last night I caught a brief moment of our local right-wing AM radio station. Some tool was yammering on about the UN recently disclosing that there were satellite images of factories which were capable of making bio and chemical weapons of mass destruction. Now I don't know about you, but doesn't this smack of yet another manufactured string of bullshit, and what timing! I don't have all the facts, but the radio clown was criticizing the left and saying things like "WAAAAAAA, Bush Lied"! Obviously in an attempt to mock people that KNOW the bastard is a liar. Well, me being the loud mouth that I am, called this dip-shit, and asked him only one question, which he couldn't answer, but needless to say, he wouldn't put me on the air. I asked him that after Bush so proudly flew the "Mission Accomplished" banner, in two years, the UN has found nothing? And now, all of the sudden there's satellite photographs? Wha? I told him that we're not buying it anymore.
Down with Bullshit, Down with Bush.

Peace out!

[kiteinthewind]

269. Finally, some GOOD news!!

I am so happy I could burst!! :bounce: Time to celebrate!!! :party:
Thank you for making my day!! :loveya:

[Barrett808]

275. "I don't know who sent Joe Wilson...I have no idea who hired him."

Cheney "doesn't know"? That seems almost impossible to believe.

[Pirate Smile]

278. Cheney, Libby May Be at Odds Over CIA Leak-Case Investigation

Cheney, Libby May Be at Odds Over CIA Leak-Case Investigation

By Richard Keil and Holly Rosenkrantz
Oct. 25 (Bloomberg) -- A fissure may be opening between Vice President Dick Cheney and his top aide over the investigation into the leak of a covert CIA agent's identity.

I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, first learned of agent Valerie Plame's identity in a conversation with Cheney weeks before her name became public in July 2003, the New York Times reported last night, citing lawyers involved in the case.

The disclosure doesn't indicate that the vice president did anything wrong, said a senior Republican with ties to Cheney. The person declined to make a similar statement about Libby.

The senior Republican, who spoke on condition of anonymity, sought to portray Cheney as uninvolved in any violation of a 1982 law forbidding the revelation of a covert intelligence agent's identity. The official noted that both Cheney and Libby had the security clearances necessary to discuss Plame's identity.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=IOWGWE1A1I4H

[central scrutinizer]

279. commence circular firing squad

ready.................aim................................. (drum roll)......................................................................................... fire!!!!

[hang a left]

280. Cheney, Libby May Be at Odds Over CIA Leak Probe (Update1)

Cheney, Libby May Be at Odds Over CIA Leak Probe (Update1)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a68iOZj7OXP0&refer=us

[goforit]

283. Nothing is gonna happen folks till he is in hand cuffs permanently!!!!

[The Judged]

285. Tenet: Could he be the source of Fitzgerald's road-map to indictments?

Could Tenet be a major player in this investigation, despite his apparent distance from since its inception and the fact that he wasn't brought before the Grand Jury?

Here is a man who was in the know like almost no other in this nation, and here is a man that is least said to be involved in this investigation.

Now, we are told that he gave Cheney the Plame data, minus the actual name or covert status.

If so, then obviously Tenet was in a position to tell that and more to Fitzgerald, who wouldn't need to bring Tenet before the Grand Jury to verify his claims, because the facts and participants to the affair would all be able to be brought before the Grand Jury in isolated instances and in a seemingly unrelated fashion while Fitzgerald built the case for the ultimate indictments, IMO.

This could also explain how Fitzgerald has seemingly pulled rabbits out of hats, in coming across evidence of crimes and in pursuing leads that were designed to appear as dead ends, such as jailing Miller on contempt charges.

That action certainly was not one that any Bush administration strategist would have given serious weight to in light of their demonstrated history supporting unaccountability for media propagandists and lackeys.

It could also explain how Fitzgerald was able to contain the bulk of his investigation from being leaked: he and Tenet were the only two persons who knew where it was ultimately headed, and Fitzgerald gathered his evidence in such a way as to be viewed as indirect and lacking any actual precision in targets or goals.

Tenet would earn the most notable Bush enemy status, if this line of thinking is correct.

What do you think?

[hvn_nbr_2]

292. I've thought Tenet and/or other CIA sources have helped Fitz all along.

That's who asked for the investigation, that's who was wronged in the leak, that's who was wronged first in the selective acceptance of intelligence and then in the blame game for bad intel. No question in my mind that the CIA is Fitzgerald's biggest helper and cheerleader.

[loudsue]

286. Even though Cheney & Libby may have the security clearance to know

who Plame was....whoever told it to Novak, ALSO told him about Brewster, Jennings & Assoc.

DON'T FORGET!!!! Novak MENTIONED Brewster Jennings in his article, and that Valerie Plame worked on WMD's. THAT is why the CIA undercover people DIED as a result of this leak, and why their sources in other countries died, as collateral damage, because of the Brewster Jennings outing. People DIED, and along with them, over 20 years of a major undercover operation died as well. This was a HUGE security breach for our country's intelligence operations.

So the story that Cheney & Libby DIDN'T KNOW Valerie Plame was undercover still leaves the MAIN, DAMAGING (to the CIA) information about Brewster Jennings question out there: Who knew the ENTIRE picture of Valerie Plame's undercover work well enough that Novak got the ENTIRE NOC operation shut down as a result of his article?

It wasn't JUST Valerie Plame that got outed by Novak, and his "sources". It was Brewster Jennings.

It seems to me that ONLY Cheney & Libby could have gotten their hands on that extremely sensitive information to pass it to Novak. Either that, or just how many "sources" did Novak have for his column?

Any article that tries to spin that Cheney and Libby "didn't know Plame was undercover" is merely serving kool-aid.

DON'T DRINK IT!!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[wrate]

287. This has to be damaging to Cheney, because if there was nothing illegal

about the conversation, then why hide it? Why lie about it and risk perjury? Libby lied to protect Cheney from that conversation, and that says a lot.

[zonkra]

288. The Ballad of Irving and Dick

There once was a Dick named Cheney
Who’d once sold WMDs to Khomeini
And lots to Saddam, Hafez and Osama
From the Gipper’s busy Missile-O-Rama
No one could cook up a plot more zany.

So he called in his pal Irving, called “Scooter”
When he targeted Joe Wilson to neuter
He said, “Joe ruined our lie,
but his wife’s a CIA spy!
So let’s spill the beans so someone will shoot her!”

So Rove called up Bob Novak at MSNBC
Irving called Judy Miller over at the NYT
They said, “Her name’s Valerie Plame
we want her down in flames
So would you blow her cover, then commit perjury?”

Novak was happy that Irving was asking
But Judy made him promise some shagging in Aspen
But he couldn’t pick
‘Cause she knew about Dick
So when he got off the phone he was gasping.

Joe Wilson then had a reason
To get on TV and talk about treason
He accused Libby and Rove
Of putting his wife on the stove
Then Judy lied and went to jail for a season.

Soon prosecutor Fitzgerald
Had Karl and Irv’s asses over a barrel
About to issue indictments
The air was filled with excitement
That they’d both be sporting prison apparel.

Underlings started turning
Like the aspens where Judy and Irv sated their yearning
Dick’s pacemaker was near frozen
When he pondered exposing
That Junior had ordered Plame’s burning.

Now it’s up to the Congress
To investigate like they did with the blue dress
Find out who knew what when
Apply the “rule of law” then
And clean up yet another GOP mess.