Diabetic Sues Akron Police Over Beating (Tasered, Beaten while in shock)

[classics]

Police Used Pepper Spray, Stun Gun On Man They Thought Was Drunk

AKRON, Ohio -- A man in a diabetic coma who was slumped over the steering wheel of his car is suing Akron police who mistook him for a drunken driver.

According to police reports, the officers used pepper spray on Merle Belford when he wouldn't get out of the car. After pulling him out, police then kneed him in the ribs and thigh, elbowed him in the head and shocked him four times with a stun gun after he resisted being handcuffed.

..more..

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/5071117/detail.html

[Maat]

1. Wow.

I hope he gets a big financial award, with nice punitive damages.

And, I hope that those 'officers' are no longer working for the police department.

[lcordero2]

2. it needs to go a step further

these cops need to be convicted and put in prison along with general population without any special protections.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. In the defense of the officers

believe it or not this is fairly common, far less common than it used to be... due to training and awareness... but in the field there are times it IS hard to distinguish the drunk from the diabetic...

I worked in EMS for ten years, and one thing I used to tell my cops was... when in duobt call us... a simple test with a glucometer will settle this.... and yes there were times that even I had trouble... and for god sakes I had the 1000+ hours of training... you cannot expect the officers, with a basic first aid course to be more qualified.

Mind you they do need to be disciplined and if they stay in the force, depends really on the case, a very serious case of refresher training... oh and the victime recognizes the need for the training.

[Kailassa]

6. and since when does one taser drunks? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. When they get completely out of control

granted, most drunks can be very entertaining... but soem of them do get completley out of control... and at that point the cop has one of two choices, non lethal (taser) or a gun, it is part of the threat matrix.

Hell I saw cops use Capsein on a drunk as well...

Thankfully this is a very small percentage, in a well trained police force... an extremely small percentage. Most drunks are restrained, for their own protection and that of the officesr well before you reach a taser.

[malaise]

28. And how is

A man in a diabetic coma who was slumped over the steering wheel of his car 'out of control'?

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. The story also indicasted he was also belligerent, so the

truth is soemwhere in between... I was not there, yuo were not there... and if he tried anything after they aproached him, officers do as they are trained. These cases, as I keep writing, are far more common than people think and the main solution is training and awreness

[NorthernSpy]

48. no, the article did NOT "indicate" that the man was "belligerent"

The article reports that the police claimed that the victim was resistant to being cuffed. But that could mean anything. Simply not putting his hands behind his back could be described as being "resistant". But that couldn't reasonably be called "belligerent" behavior.

Remember, the first violent act by the police was attacking the victim with pepperspray when he did not exit his car on their command. NOTHING in this article suggests any violent behavior on the part of the victim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. yes it does

after he resisted being handcuffed.

Now the article is not giving yuo too many details, but there is more to this story than meets the eye... much more.. including somebody who may have beek kicking and screaming and punching.

Oh and as to the car... there is more

There is an active lawsuit here so they are NOT giving you all the details

[NorthernSpy]

55. nonsense!

To be "belligerent" is to be aggressive, assaultive and combative.

To be "resist" is to fail -- for whatever reason -- to cooperate. Resistance can be passive, but belligerence never is.

Now the article is not giving yuo too many details, but there is more to this story than meets the eye... much more.. including somebody who may have beek kicking and screaming and punching.

Oh and as to the car... there is more

You continue to add details of your own invention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. so the paper did not write the actual word for you to miss the

meaning... ok, you think that it does not mean he was... fine, we can agree to disagree.

Been in enough calls where the word BELLIGERANT applies and the paper prints resiting arrest.

So suit yourself... been there done that

[NorthernSpy]

60. the article DOESN'T say that the victim was charged with resisting arrest!

Been in enough calls where the word BELLIGERANT applies and the paper prints resiting arrest.

You cannot reasonably generalize from those unrelated incidents to this particular case!

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Huge freaking clue, HE IS A DIABETIC

even if they charged him, (if they were that stupid that is) the charge woudl be thrown out of court by the judge so fast it would make your head spin

He was not in his mental capacity to KNOW what he was doing.....

What yuo think we even bothered charging the patients that assaulted me?

THINK!

[NorthernSpy]

63. Big freaking deal!

What has the fact of diminished responsibility got to do with that other fact: the fact that the article never claims that the victim behaved violently in the first place?

[struggle4progress]

67. Uh, he was in a diabetic COMA. eom

[flaminbats]

144. this entire story makes me sick..

nobody can really understand this story unless they have a relative or close friend who has diabetes. When a diabetic becomes low, the entire temperament of this person changes. When a diabetic goes into reaction..they become violent, resistant, and often convulse wildly. Until taken to a hospital..or injected with sugar and water, the diabetic is often uncontrollable.

When the convulsions stop, the diabetic recovers, and slowly awakes..he or she has forgotten everything that happened during an insulan reaction, and are usually shocked to hear about this behavior during the reaction. One of my close relatives died in insulin reaction..a close friend of mine lost it once in a restaurant. He went from sweet and intelligent-to completely spaced out-to angrily resisting help, then to screaming terrible insults and powerful punches while wildly shaking on the floor. Four of us had to hold him still while another glucted him. When he finally came out of it..man he was extremely sick and depressed.

Imagine giving your friends a tour of the city you lived in, and losing it later while taking these guests out for dinner. All diabetics have an extremely rough life, and working nonstop just to pay for staying healthy only makes this harder for Type 1 diabetics!

[struggle4progress]

146. In NOT ONE version of the story that I have seen or posted is there ..

.. any indication that the man was violent: the indications are at least that he was stuporous or (according to essentially all stories) in "diabetic coma."

Whether extreme hypoglycemia can potentially produces violent behavior may be a very individual matter: I can say that in the cases I have experienced, individuals simply "faded away" into minor convulsions, suggesting petit mal epileptic events, without exhibiting hostile or psychotic behavior.

In any case, an event like adrenalin release with falling blood sugar is not necessarily correlated with hypoglycemia: one diabetic I know informs me that in his/her particular case, symptoms of elevated adrenalin occur when blood sugar has become high and begins to fall below 150, and in my experience that person does not react with rage.

I should say clearly: I consider your generalizations about diabetics offensive.

And I find your reading of the story dishonest: all accounts agree that the man was found slumped over the steering wheel, that the police pulled him from the car, and that he was hospitalized for about a week with broken bones as a result; at least one account I have posted indicates that, after handcuffing him, police noticed his medical supplies in the car, contacted paramedics who tested his blood sugar, and then took him to the hospital; no story explicitly claims that the man was belligerent or fought the officers -- although there are certain posters who appear to believe that whenever police break bones we should assume that it was all for a good cause.

Perhaps a correct conclusion from the story is simply that if the police had been alert enough to notice the medical supplies in the car before they concluded they were dealing with a drunk, they could have saved themselves unnecessary trouble and the diabetic unnecessary injury.

[flaminbats]

148. insulin reactions do vary with the individual..

"I should say clearly: I consider your generalizations about diabetics offensive."

Perhaps you misunderstood my point..even if the diabetic with low sugar reacted violently, he shouldn't be tasered or beaten. I don't blame the diabetic or police, I do blame the government. The police often arrive in these emergencies before an ambulance can. As a result, the police should receive special training for handling individuals with such medical problems. That would have been beneficial for the diabetic and police.

I believe having universal healthcare and an effective public transportation system would turn this into a non-issue.

[struggle4progress]

150. There's NO evidence "the diabetic with low sugar reacted violently." eom

[struggle4progress]

66. "When officers saw Merle Belford slumped over the steering wheel ..

.. in his car, they thought he was drunk. <snip>

After pulling him out, they kneed him in the ribs and thigh, elbowed him in the head and shocked him four times with a stun gun after he resisted being handcuffed, police reports say.

Then an officer noticed diabetic medicine and syringes in his car.

Belford, 56, was in a diabetic coma. He spent nine days in the hospital with two broken ribs and a punctured lung following his run-in with police last spring. And he was charged with reckless operation. <snip>

Diabetic sues Akron police over beating
They shocked him, broke ribs
Friday, October 07, 2005
Karen Farkas
Plain Dealer Reporter
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1128677428307920.xml&coll=2

[Gnostic]

102. Could'nt this be avoided...

...if all such asthmatics and others with serious conditions that could incapacitate them momentarily without warning all wore medical bracelets or neck chain icons indicating the person wearing them has such a condition, and with the police trained to look for such?

I would have had to be there to make a judgement on whether the cops did the right thing or not. I am for one against the use of pepper spray or tasers unless absolutely required to the immediate safety of an officer. Can't judge on how the guy reacted, what he did, and how the officer's responded. But one thing is clear to me. It is all avoidable with the criteria in place stated above.

[TankLV]

105. I don't wear one - but I've been told I should.

Many of us don't wear a necklace or a bracelet.

My mom and aunts did, tho.

[Gnostic]

119. My fiancee does

As she is an asthmatic, as well as having a form of NF (neurofibromatosis) which can induce seizures, she wears either a medical alert bracelet or chain medallion, and does'nt seem to mind. She thinks it is necessary in case she has a seizure and is found somewhere where the persons surrounding her are not aware of her conditions. It helps paramedics get the info they need MUCH more quickly, and it lists all the medications and such that she is allergic to or can't take.

I view them as invaluable tools for the saving of such person's lives, and it's only common sense to wear one with such medical conditions.

[Ladyhawk]

142. I just got a medical ID necklace. I just got a really cheap one I ordered

online.

So far, I have never needed it, but... :shrug:

[NeoConsSuck]

122. Yeah..

"Please don't knee me, puncture my lungs, pepper spray me, taser me, or use other attempts to kill me. I might be in a diabetic coma. You can, however, attempt to get me medical aid." Wonder how this tag would have worked?

Why are the lyrics of Lee Michael's "Mad Dog" swirling through my head right now?

[Gnostic]

131. I would think...

...that ANYTHING would help over having nothing at all to tip off law enforcement or emergency services personnel that something may be up with the person other than the "usual" (drunk, meth, etc).

What's your suggestion?

We are talking about people who have the ability, while in the midst of such seizures or comas, to act out violently.

I'm not condoning the gestapo tactics used by police in many cases unnecessarily. But they ARE faced with such scenarios, and many times don't have the training to distinguish a violent criminal from a person experiencing and displaying a medically explainable resistance to arrest.

[AnneD]

64. As a nurse

and a school nurse, I have had to deal with diabetics. One incident involved me trying to take the keys away from a parent that was starting to have dangerously low blood sugar. She was most feral. She tried to bite, scratch and choke me with my own stethascope (this was while she was in the car, keys in hand, and I was trying to prevent her from putting them in the ignition). I managed to knock the keys out of her hand onto the floorboard. The village policeman parked his car behind her and the ambulance managed to get there and give her glucagon (her BS was 19...100 is normal). She would black out the rouse and fight then black out again. I was so insistant because it was our field day and all the kids were on the football field and I had horrible visions of her plowing into a group of kids.
When her blood sugar came back up, she didn't remember her actions. My clothes were tattered and I had claw marks and bruises all over me. I can see why police might unintentionally taser someone that combative if they didn't know better........However, I think tasers are dangeous and should be taken off the market. He is lucky to be alive. It is hard to tell the difference between a combative drunk and a diabetic going into a coma. They both go in and out of conciousness.

[Occulus]

13. You lost me at "in defense of the officers." n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yeah I know you did not bother readying why

when situations like this happen you PUSH for training... as the victim himself ponited out.

[NorthernSpy]

26. aw, stop making things up!

Please show us where this article says that the victim was "belligerent".

I'm sure some people will find your tangential meanderings interesting, but they simply are not relevant to this case.

[MH1]

120. There's not a lot of information in the article.

So please don't assume that just because something isn't stated, that it didn't happen.

If the article linked in the op is all we have to go on, then a better statement would be, "diabetics with out-of-whack blood sugar tend to be belligerent when confronted, so we can suspect that the officers had some reason to feel that they needed to subdue the guy."

Also I can tell you from personal experience, a diabetic in this situation not only will typically be belligerent when confronted, but also exhibits surprising strength.

The person you're responding to probably doesn't realize how little the average person knows about out-of-control diabetics, if they haven't had to live with one, or have similar experience.

[slaveplanet]

29. So then

Beating a drunk to an inch of thier life=ok

Beating a diabetic to an inch of thier life= not ok, but acceptable because it's tough to tell, and they could be drunk

[ret5hd]

31. why don't you tell us...

just how much (and how effective) resistance a person in a diabetic coma is going to give to the officers beating him about the head ribs and thighs all after being pepper sprayed. But of course, tasering such a fearsome fighter would finally throw things in the cops favor.

[IDemo]

38. Diabetic here, checking in

I have had type 1 diabetes for 43 years and have a bit(!) of experience with situations like this.

First off, this was not a diabetic 'coma', which is what happens after an extended period of time with extremely high (600+) blood sugar levels, generally a couple of days or longer. I was in a coma for a week when I was diagnosed at the age of five.

What the individual in this story was experiencing is hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar. I don't display symptoms other people can notice until I'm in the low 40's or high 30's, probably because my body has become tolerant of hypoglycemia in much the same way an alcoholic may build up tolerance. Unfortunately what also happens in extreme hypoglycemia is that you are also dealing with a huge kick of adrenalin without the mental capacity needed to handle it. I punched a hole in the kitchen wall of a former residence, and put quite a nice dent in the refrigerator door of another. Luckily I have never been driving a vehicle under that condition.

A former karate instructor of mine, an EMT, told me he had needed to use force on two diabetics just to administer a glucagon injection.

I consider tasers to be a scourge which have gained too much popularity with police forces, especially in non-deadly situations. I don't know what the solution is, maybe an interactive medical alert bracelet (RFID...) to alert police and EMS crews that they are dealing with a victim of insulin shock.

[malaise]

94. I hope he collects big time n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Lets just say the only reason why I am not missing

a good chunk of my arm is... I was wearing a fire fighting coat, which is THICK.... did I mention the bent railings on the ambulance coat AFTER we restrained this patient?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. Sorry..no defense of brutality. If the perp is unarmed, call more backup

I understand what you are saying but as one who has advocated for brain injured patients in the past, I've seen dozens of cases where cops mistake behavior for drunkeness or drugs when ZERO evidence but for behavior existed that drugs or alcohol was involved.

Cops have a duty to protect the public, not brutalize them

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. that is why my policy was to make them aware

and educate them

[cantstandbush]

77. B ut, does even a "drunk" need to be tasered? Before tasers

drunks were not much of a problem to police. there is no defense for pulling someone who is slumped over the steering wheel of a car out and tasering and kneeing him. It's just police brutality plain and simple and I bet any amount of money the man was African-American.

[NashVegas]

118. Well Ya Gotta Give the Police Credit

They did try an Old Fashioned Whupping before tasering him.

[progressivebydesign]

126. He was belligerent and physically resisting arrest.

He was not lying there like a sack of potatoes. They had no idea what they were dealing with, and he reacted violently. No time to get a medical history while trying to keep a violent person away from your weapon.

[struggle4progress]

147. Evidence, please: direct quote & link supporting your claim that ..

.. the person was belligerent, physically resisting arrest, or violent.

Stories I have seen all indicate he was in a coma; if we assume reporters don't know the meaning of "coma" and perhaps what was meant was "stupor," it doesn't change the meaning much: the fellow was slumped over his steering wheel, partly or completely unresponsive ...

[BiggJawn]

116. So how hard is it to ask "Hey! Are you Diabetic?"

"but in the field there are times it IS hard to distinguish the drunk from the diabetic..."

Diabetics smell like booze?

"and yes there were times that even I had trouble... and for god sakes I had the 1000+ hours of training.."

Diabetics smell like booze?

I've been around a lot of drunks in my life. some who were so drunk they were incoherent.
One common thread they all had was that they ALL smelled like the dumpster behind a tavern.

Diabetics don't smell like booze.


"I am not programmed to recognize 'Diabetic'. Therefore, you are DRUNK, and that is illegal. I will now apply stunning electricity to you, Lawbreaker..."

[KansDem]

123. I wonder if the man was wearing a diabetic ID bracelet...

I'm a diabetic and I wear one. It IDs me and gives a phone number to call if I'm found unconscious. The company will tell the officers/EMT personnel what is wrong and what meds I'm on. The article, written by our crack media, doesn't say if this man was wearing one.

on edit: Oops! I forgot to put it on this morning. Guess I've opened myself up to a police beating!
Lantus! Give me Lantus! :spank:

[yorgatron]

130. i used to work as a bouncer,and NEVER

tasered,maced,or beaten anyone with a nightstick.
most cops are just chickenshit.

[sendero]

133. The fact is..

... their behavior would not have been justified even if the guy were drunk. There really just isn't any excuse, and I hope the jury makes these morons wish they'd taken a job at Target.

[NEOBuckeye]

16. Trust me, the officers will get off easy.

If the driver was belligerent, the police responded the way they were trained to act in that situation. At most, they may have received a one-day paid suspension. But they won't lose their jobs over this, nor should they.

The driver may win some damages, but I don't think he's going to hit the lottery, nor should he.

I'm from Akron, by the way. Born and raised here. I know how this town works.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. If you live in Akron, PUSH for in service traiining

and for officers to call EMS even if they have a slight doubt... and I agree with you... this is the way it works around the world...

[NorthernSpy]

25. the article doesn't say that the man was "belligerent"!

Read it again. The police attacked the victim when he didn't leave his car on their command.

That's not called "belligerence" That's called being very sick.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. were you there?

no, as I said, I am not making things up, been in the field and can see easily how that call could have done that way.

DO the cops need training? Yes.

Do they need a reprimand? absolutely

Will it go anywhere beyind that? Doubtfull,

[NorthernSpy]

were YOU there, O psychic one?

You keep nattering on about "belligerence", despite the the fact that the article does not depict the victim in this case as having been belligerent.

There's no reason to assume that your claimed experiences with belligerent diabetics are directly relevant to our discussion of THIS case.

That's the point that a number of us have been trying to get across to you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. No but I have handled enough of these calls to realize

that the paper is not telling all and making mistakes, I keep repeating this, I have been ASSAULTED by diabetic patients in shock (who were never chargee) and I have restrained patients to give them their shot...

So oh psychic one insteand of making fun start readying about making cops aware, training them, the need for Medic Alert tags, and for god sakes even the victim recognizes that.

I know, I know easier to just lamblast the officers insteand of gonig... I am told by a former EMS worker this happens more often than people owuld like to admit, how do we solve this?

You play your blame game, I look for solutions... and in this case the life that may save is yours.

[NorthernSpy]

49. you're ignoring what we DO know of the facts of THIS case...

... and adding a bunch of generalizations from unrelated experiences of your own.

And the result is commentary of little apparent relevance to the case at hand.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. No I am not

after he resisted being handcuffed.

That is from the article

This is your indication he was being belligerent, resisting being cuffed, aka put under arrest, is being belligerent... I knew I was not dreaming

It is just taht it is not in plain talk since there is a lawysuit ongoing

[NorthernSpy]

62. that's absurd!

Belligerent = combative, aggressive, or assaultive

Resistant = uncooperative

They are different words, and they mean different things.

[struggle4progress]

69. "Belford, 56, was in a diabetic coma "

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051008/NEWS01/510080360/1056

"Diabetic Coma is a severe emergency in which a person is not conscious because the blood glucose (sugar) is too low or too high."
http://www.paralumun.com/diabetescoma.htm

[IDemo]

81. This is a misinformation clearing site

Again, a diabetic coma is the result of extremely high sugars and only results after several days. Any diabetic who has a clue about their condition will have corrected the 600+ blood sugar level with insulin injections before they get to the comatose state, or they will have been taken to a hospital. Extremely high bg levels will leave you feeling violently nauseous, dehydrated, and physically weakened. Trust me, I've been there (not lately).

Hypoglycemia, or insulin shock, on the other hand, can come about in under an hour after taking an insulin dose, and depending on the severity of the reaction, may offer little warning to the victim. If not corrected soon enough and severe brain damage occurs, then it may be said that the patient is 'comatose'. The correct word for someone passed out due to hypoglycemia is 'unconscious'.

[struggle4progress]

85. Mayo Clinic gives essentially the same definition:

... "Both very high and very low blood sugar can lead to coma — an altered state of consciousness," says Maria Collazo-Clavell, M.D., an endocrinologist at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. "Left untreated, this condition can result in brain damage or even death."

If you have diabetes and your blood sugar gets too high (hyperglycemia) and stays too high, or your blood sugar gets too low (hypoglycemia) and stays too low, you can lose consciousness. This is referred to as a diabetic coma ...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=DA00022


I understand that, in fact, observers cannot always easily distinguish hyperglycemia from hypoglycemia from the symptoms ...

[struggle4progress]

86. No, "comatose" is not restricted to cases with severe brain damage:

Evaluating the comatose patient
Rapid neurologic assessment is key to appropriate management
Khalid Malik, MBBS; David C. Hess, MD
VOL 111 / NO 2 / FEBRUARY 2002 / POSTGRADUATE MEDICINE

Coma is defined as a sleeplike state with total absence of awareness of self and the environment, even after vigorous external stimulation. Coma is the most severe form of unresponsiveness, and by definition, comatose patients lie with their eyes closed.

To avoid confusion and to improve communication, it is helpful to describe the level of consciousness with terms such as "alert," "drowsy," "stuporous," or "comatose" and to avoid words like "lethargic" or "obtunded," which lack precise meanings. Because other conditions resemble coma, it is important to distinguish the cause of the problem as quickly as possible. Specifically, it is helpful to determine whether the patient is, in fact, in a coma or whether the patient's condition might more appropriately be called persistent vegetative state or locked-in syndrome (see box below). <snip>

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2002/02_02/malik.htm

[struggle4progress]

87. In any case, the point is that the poor fellow had passed out. eom

[IDemo]

90. Then the Mayo Clinic has it wrong as well

All qualified diabetes professionals will tell you the the phrase "diabetic coma" refers specifically to the state brought about due to keto-acidosis because of high blood sugar levels. This isn't simply about semantics, there is a very different physical and mental state between hypo-vs-hyperglycemia.

I am not in a state of 'coma' when I am experiencing severe insulin shock.

[struggle4progress]

91. Medical researchers at UC San Francisco:

Glucose Byproduct Prevents Brain Damage After Diabetic Coma

April 26, 2005
News Office: Steve Tokar [phone]

A natural, non-toxic byproduct of glucose may prevent brain cell death and cognitive impairment in diabetics following an episode of severely low blood sugar, according to researchers at the San Francisco VA Medical Center (SFVAMC).

In research studies with rats, senior investigator Dr. Raymond A. Swanson and lead author Sang Won Suh, demonstrated the effectiveness of pyruvate, a naturally-occurring byproduct of glucose, when administered along with glucose after 30 minutes of diabetic coma. The therapy prevented brain damage and subsequent memory and learning impairment far better than treatment with glucose alone.

The study findings, appearing in the May 1, 2005 issue of Diabetes, have direct implications for the treatment of diabetic patients in hypoglycemic coma, according to the researchers. <snip>

http://www.ucsfhealth.org/childrens/health_library/news/2005/04/50304.html

[IDemo]

93. Ahh, Google wars..

"Diabetic coma: Coma in a diabetic due to the buildup of ketones in the bloodstream. Ketones are a product of metabolizing (using) fats rather than the sugar glucose for energy."

http://health.allrefer.com/health/diabetic-ketoacidosis-info.html

"Diabetic ketoacidosis is a complication of diabetes mellitus caused by the buildup of by-products of fat metabolism (ketones), which occurs when glucose is not available as a fuel source for the body."

http://www.survival-center.com/firstaid/diabetic.htm

"Diabetic Coma"

"This condition occurs when there is TOO MUCH SUGAR and too little INSULIN in the blood and body cells do not get enough nourishment.

Diabetic coma can be caused by eating too much sugar, by not taking prescribed medications, by stress and by infection.

SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS: Diabetic coma develops more slowly than Insulin shock, sometimes over a period of days. Signs and symptoms include drowsiness, confusion,deep and fast breathing, thirst, dehydration, fever, a change in the level of consciousness and a peculiar sweet or fruity-smelling breath."

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/aha_keto_crs.htm

*******************************************************

It's Hypoglycemia, Insulin Reaction, or Insulin Shock, even if one appears 'comatose' with a low blood glucose! The words 'diabetic' and 'coma', when combined in the phrase "diabetic-coma", ALWAYS mean coma due to hyp-ER-glycemia, not hyp-O-glycemia. I have had this condition for over 40 years, have spent the time in emergency rooms, worked with endrocrinologists, have studied the disease and lived with it.

The story was poorly written, but that is not uncommon when the topic is health, science, or technology related.

Back on the thread topic, insulin reactions can and do cause unpredictable behavior, sometimes including violence. I do not believe tasers should be used in non life-threatening situations. They have caused heart failure in some cases. A better method should be found to control people in scenarios such as this.

[struggle4progress]

95. I'm having no trouble finding the phrase "diabetic coma" used by ..

.. professionals to cover both the hyperglycemic case with DKA and the hypoglycemic case. Here, for example, is the American Diabetes Association:

If mild or moderate hypoglycemia isn't treated promptly, it can turn into severe hypoglycemia. People with severe hypoglycemia have so little sugar in their system that it affects their brain. When that happens, they can enter a diabetic coma.
http://www.diabetes.org/for-parents-and-kids/diabetes-care/hypoglycemia-prevention-treatment.jsp


Your links do indicate some professionals prefer the distinction you want to make between "diabetic coma" and "insulin reaction" but do not support a claim that for all professionals "'diabetic-coma' ALWAYS means coma due to hyperglycemia."

It is certainly critical to distinguish between hypoglycemia and hyperglycemia, and one readily discovers clarifying phrases like "diabetic hypoglycemic coma" and "hyperosmotic diabetic coma" in circulation.

The particular usage upon which you want to insist may be perfectly clear in certain circles.

I would simply add that it is neither universal nor natural: a reasonable parsing of "diabetic coma" would be "coma due to diabetes," and further insight due to blood glucose testing can most unambiguously be communicated by a more precise terminology.

[IDemo]

101. Give it up

You haven't lived with this for 4+ decades as I have. You have no real concept of low or high blood sugar scenarios, outside what you have Googled today. When you have experienced one one-thousandth what I and my family have, you may consider yourself qualified to comment. Not until.

[struggle4progress]

103. Personal attack. How, uh, clever. eom

[TankLV]

106. That was NOT a personal attack! It was a strong and good rebuttal.

Get a clue.

[struggle4progress]

115. Of course it's personal attack: it's based on claims about who I am ..

.. and when/how I learned what I know, claims for which the author of the post has no factual basis.

The post which you are defending so brilliantly ("Get a clue") also violates this handy little rule of politics: don't assume you know anything about somebody on the basis of a short first interaction ...

[struggle4progress]

92. The point is: police apparently attacked a man in a coma. eom

[Conservativesux]

111. Glad I dont live in Akron! nt

[ninkasi]

4. If he was slumped over the steering wheel

and suffering from diabetic shock, why was the excessive force necessary? He couldn't have been much of a physical threat. The taser is touted as a tool which can be used instead of deadly force. Are we now shooting people in diabetic comas? Could it be that some in law enforcement, given new "toys", are overly eager to use them?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Read the story, he was beligerant... which is common to both

that is why it is so damn hard to at times distinguish it. Years ago, when I started in EMS, they used to call us to the drunk tank once a month for the diabetic who was throwin in there because he was drunk... and sometimes we called the coroner (now this was in a developing world country, aka city, but the situation was nto that different in the States)

What changed is we got fed up, (like many EMSers in the States) and basically I started talknig to my local cops... I used to tell them, I know, I know, there are times they get violent and assault you, they are not consicious of what hey are donig. If you have any tiny little bit of doubt this may be a medical condition (and we educated on Diabetes), call an ambulance. A simple blood test done in the field (the same one I do every morning on myself anymore) will settle the matter.

It took a lot of training. When I left EMS, we had lowered that to once a year...

So a lot of it is a mmater of training and consciousness raising, which the victim admits... and you can believe me, after that lawsuit (whicn yhou can bet will be settled out of court), those officers, hell the whole department, will have a nice in training

Oh and if you doubt a diabetic can get violent... I have the scars from one bite on my arm.

The patient was never charged with assault either

;-)

But he WAS restrained... now once we gave him some sugar that did wonders.

[merwin]

7. Give him sugar and 15 minutes and he'll be good as new :-)

My best friend is diabetic and has this happen a few times a year. Very hard to control them when blood sugar is low, but not hard enough to justify taser use.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. They were not THAT low....

this patient did not register on the glucometer, hell did not register or come back to us, until we gave him two full doses of sugar intravenously... and yes I still have the scars

I am not saying the cops were right, or wrong, they were untrained, and the department will correct that.

This is a more common problem than people realise. It truly depends how down that sugar is... normal is 80 mg... your friend probably dropped down all teh way to sixty, worst case... oral sugar will do it, once they go down under 50 you really don't know how violent they MAY get... operative word, MAY... if it goes under 40, all bets are off (taht is when your glucometer will not register) and that is truly a medical emergency. By the way, this patient who technially assaulted me, was not fully conscious either...


And in cases like this what I advise people is... PUSH for your force to be trained, and to have in service training every so often... the life that training may save is yours.

[merwin]

88. Usually I have to give him about 4-5 cups of sugar ;-)

Depends on if he's moving or not.

I do agree that training is the best solution to most of these problems.

[Ladyhawk]

143. I didn't know low blood glucose could make a patient combative!

I'm a type 2 diabetic. A few months ago, my blood glucose dropped to 60. My glucometer advised me to call a doctor, but instead, I grabbed something to eat and called someone to talk to until my bg rose to acceptable levels.

I wasn't very coherent, but I didn't feel combative. Of course, if I weren't in control of myself at all, things could be a bit different.

My opinion is that tasering this guy--combative or not--was a very bad idea. I don't like the way police have become so reliant on tasers.

Then again, I wasn't there. I don't know what this guy did or didn't do. I don't know what the police did or didn't do. Hopefully, a probe will get to the bottom of it.

[Sin]

8. Same with me Gf

Theres different ways the can go low.
Some there total paralyzed not moving and what not other times when she is just at the threshold of going total out of or some times when she is coming up from being low she gets really violent small girl lots of strength she has bitten, punched, kicked, slapped, hit, head-butted pushed, thats not most of the times id say about 20% the rest are a mix of completely out of it to just talking in gibberish.
But still if cops ever did that to her with out looking for her wrist band she wheres. You can pick them up in a drug store says diabetic on them.It would be hard for me not to find them and beat them in to goo with large blunt weapon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. and cops were ONE of the raesons for those Medical

Tags... (I shoudl wear one, but the birds keep attacking them.. if and when I end up on insulin, you can bet I will)

[chalky]

12. I'm sorry. The....birds, you say?

Which birds are those? Sorry to be nosy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. we own three parrots

a cockatiel, a sun conure and a Nanday conure, the first two go after anything shiny.. they just love it... and they have chewed chains

It is not healthy for them... and it is annoying at times

;-)

[Behind the Aegis]

18. I am just liking you more and more!

I have read several of your posts and they are enjoyable. Now, I discover you are a bird lover...BIG POINTS! That, and you think beyond a situation and look for a solution, and not get bogged down in assigning blame.

I have worked at different universities and one of the things we started doing was training our housing staff to not assume someone acting odd was drunk. It could be diabetic shock or even a psychotic break or drug related. We always taught our staff to call the police for rough students, but they also needed to not whether alcohol was smelled during the encounter and report that to the police. We also had a data base of those with medical conditions (self-reported), so we would also cross reference those reports as well.

Thanks for making so many great posts!

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Well you welcome and kudos on that

only problem with alcohol smell, why it is so damn hard at times... sometimes diabetics have that nice smell of alcohol... (these are ketones truly)... and comes with high blood sugar... which leads to other kinds of fun

If you have a campus police, ask they are given an in service on this every year before the school year starts.

and the birds are our children, and the cocktail, he has no schedule, is asking to go to bed, FINALLY

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Thanks!

We did have in-services led by health care-professionals for the police and our staff. I am no longer working, so I hope they continue to do so. Funny thing too, is not all drunks will even smell of alcohol, so it is a touch and go situation. On a college campus, it is more than likely an alcohol incident, but not always.

Our birds our babies too. They, all 25 are sleeping. Even, the bad kitty is asleep! The hamsters, however, are starting to wake up! But they don't squeak, just their running wheels. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yep that is why stories like the one posted by the OP

did not shock me... they happen every so often... reminding us where things are, and where they should go.

And on that note, I think I am going to follow his example.

Nite.

[chalky]

33. I see! Thanks!

:D

[MiniMe]

23. The tags only work if the cops are trained to look for them.

I wear a necklace from medic alert, and I usually wear it so it is under my clothing. The chain is visible but the emblem usually isn't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Again we go back to training

a good first aid course will emphasize looking for them... a bad one will not

[BiggJawn]

36. They don't work.

The Pigs claim "Tags? We're dealing with a Potentially Deadly Situation ("deadly" to THEM) here, and you want us to look for a fuckin' TAG??? We got no TIME to look for a tag! We're trying to gain CONTROL of the situation here!"

This isn't the first time I've heard and read about a diabetic being beaten by the Robocops who thought they were being a mean drunk.

I don't bother wearing one of the damn things, and I use Insulin. They don't alert or inform the people who NEED to know about my condition, and it only tells people who have no business knowing I'm diabetic that I am.

[NorthernSpy]

24. excuse me? WHERE does it say that he was "belligerent"?

According to the article, the police attacked the victim when he failed to get out of his vehicle. And the police claim that he "resisted" being handcuffed -- whatever that means.

But the article makes no mention of "belligerence" on the part of the victim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Resisted is belligerent in police terms

sorry, I knew what I was readying, he was fighting the cops

[NorthernSpy]

59. no, it's not!

"Resistant" means resistant -- ie, not cooperative. No matter who says it.

If they had meant to say "belligerent", they would have. If the man had attacked them, they'd have said so. And -- tellingly -- they didn't.

[wellstone_democrat]

82. I left Law Enforcement over the "resisting" issue---bogus

anyone who questions too much, refuses to jump to attention or doesn't move fast enough---or, who did n't stop fast enough and on and on and on was regularly charged with the great catch all: "resisting arrest"
This was both in military and in city (civilian) police. And it wasn't the thugs of the forces involved only it was widespread. It was also often piled on to give the "message" about how the police (arresting officer) felt about the perp.

My question FROM EXPERIENCE would be this: "did the 'resisting' consist of just pulling away in a semi-concious way and AFTER the perp was "calmed down" physically and the meds found in the car did the 'resisting' get added? " I wonder because I have seen it. Many times. A little too much enthusiasm in cuffing someone? You then MUST charge resisting to justify it.

"Resisting" is a kitchen-sinking charge more often than you would think.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

27. "Read the story?" I did. Twice. No "Beligerant." Don't make shit up

like that, and if you do base your argument on a single word, spell it correctly.

I have stopped a diabetic driver who I thought was drunk at first. She was driving 3 miles and hour down the wrong side of a busy street.

I had to get out of my car and pound on her hood to get her to stop. I'm untrained, but it took about two seconds to realize she was not drunk.

Unfortunately, it seems that violence is increasing here in America and the introduction of the Taser is helping that trend. (IMHO)

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Resisted being cuffed

that is your code word for belligerent

And yes there are times a case of diabetic shock is clear as day, there are days they are not

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

73. Ahhhhh... I see. The "Code Word" for belligerent! LOL! Are you serious?

That's a good one!

Sorry, but in diabetic shock there wouldn't be that much of a fight against a gang of cops.

[struggle4progress]

71. "An Akron man is suing police alleging officers mistook his diabetic coma

for defiance and sprayed him with Mace before beating him and shooting him with a Taser gun. <snip>

According to his lawsuit: Belford's car was stopped at a traffic light at East and Carey avenues and he was slumped over the steering wheel in a diabetic coma because of low blood sugar. Officer Lauri Natko arrived, believed he was drunk and tried to remove him from the car.

The officer called for backup and Flaherty and Thomas arrived. Flaherty used pepper Mace on Belford and dragged him from the car, trying to handcuff him. During the struggle, Flaherty struck him on the ribs and thigh and Thomas shot him four times with a Taser gun trying to subdue him.

After the arrest, Natko found Belford's medication in his car and paramedics tested his blood sugar and discovered it was low, the suit states. <snip>

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/community/12840968.htm

[progressivebydesign]

127. Didn't know you could struggle while in a coma.

I don't know a lot about diabetes... but I thought coma meant you were unconcious. I have low blood sugar, can I resist arrest and have my blood tested as a defense?

[Selteri]

22. Not a bit surprised

The Akron PD is possibly one of the most corrupt PDs out there for a city I've lived in. They hire with a severe level of nepotism and go out of their way to target people in areas including the excuse of arrasting people because they 'look like escaped insane people' for being out too late.

[Bombero1956]

30. the same thing happened here

http://valleyadvocate.com/gbase/News/content.html?oid=oid:91520

The cases are similar with the only difference being that some of the officers have a history of abuse.

Douglas Greer, a diabetic and the principal at Robert M. Hughes Academy, says he had pulled into a gas station in the South End that day after feeling ill. A worker at the station tried to rouse Greer by knocking on his window and, when he couldn't, called the police.

One of the officers who responded happened to be Jeffrey Asher, who in 1997 was caught on tape by a passerby kicking an already-subdued suspect named Roy Parker. As a result, Asher was suspended from his job for one year, without pay; that punishment was later reduced by the courts. Another of the officers who responded to the Greer call, James Shewchuk, had allegedly helped plan a controversial "welcome back" party for Officer Don Brown, who had shot and killed an unarmed young man named Ben Schoolfield in 1994. The next year, Shewchuk faced the Police Commission on charges that he falsified reports about the party. He was cleared.

According to the police account of the Greer incident, the officers responding to the call dragged Greer out through his car window to give him treatment. The principal, they say, needed to be restrained and actually caused his own injuries by cracking his head on the pavement. The clerk who called the police says he saw them holding Greer to the ground but did not see them hitting him.

[drumz4hire]

145. I hear you....

as a native of Akron for the first 30 years of my life, I've
seen first hand how they treat those they view as less than
citizens.

I was hassled a few times just for having long hair, and just last
year my brother-in-law was stopped at a red light and a cop car
pulled up alongside him and the cop looked at him and gave him the
middle finger, laughed to his partner about it and then drove off.

luckily my BIL is a smart man and didn't return the gesture, or
I'm sure they'd have given him a good old fashioned APD beatdown.

Fucking rednecks :mad:

[BiggJawn]

32. So did they check for his "Bracelet" first? Doesn't sound like it.

That's why I don't bother to wear one. I have a home-made card in my wallet that says

"I am a DIABETIC. I do NOT drink Alcohol. If you find me in a condition that seems like extreme intoxication, call the EMT's IMMEDIATELY! I'm DIEING!"

Wouldn't get out of the car, so they peppered him, THEN they put the boots to him.

THEN they used Bernie Kerik's Buzzer on him.

"Buy my Product?"

Fuck-heads.
Fucking fuck-heads.


"OBEY me, PERPS!"

[struggle4progress]

74. "... Natko testified last month that officers felt Belford had to be ..

.. Natko testified last month that officers felt Belford had to be charged with something because he was 'irresponsible in doing what he did in not having some type of medical bracelet or something that would alert us sooner to what the problems may have been' " ...
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/community/12840968.htm

Posted on Fri, Oct. 07, 2005
Diabetic man sues over arres
Police mistook illness for defiance, shocked and beat him, suit says
By Phil Trexler
Beacon Journal staff writer
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/community/12840968.htm
www.bugmenot.com

[BiggJawn]

99. What??? Since when has "irresponsibilty" become a CRIME?

IOW, "We gotta charge him with SOMETHING to get the fucking heat offa US!"

Not that there's anything there I'd wanna see anyway, but I can tell you I'll NEVER visit Akron.

[struggle4progress]

104. I'm thinking ya got it exactly right: "gotta charge im with sumthin" eom

[William Bloode]

34. And people wonder why i hate cops.

Having been one makes it even worse. Shit like this makes me just want to right out there and kick the shit outta one right now. :grr:

I might as well, one more charge of assault on a government official would not hurt that bad. :evilgrin:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. I wonder if there will ever be a case of police brutality SO egregious

that it will be posted on DU and nobody will jump out of the woodwork to defend the perpetrators.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. There are cases that are egregiouis but unfortuntely

cases involving diabetics and teh cops have been going on for literally centuruies

When I could do something about it we did... and for god sakes the Tijuana Police Department is not what you woudl call one of the most profesional departments out there. If I cuold train those cops to call us and reduce the number of incidents, it can happen here... only if people deaand it, yes even ON TEH NORTH EAST where the thin blue line is so tight it is almost impossible to breach it.

Now egregious, can you say Jose Luima? I knew you could... there was a case recently here in California where the CHP officers will not only loose their jobs but chances are serve some time... flashlighs and battons on downed person

But when it comes to diabetics... as I said I had 1000 hours of MEDICAL Training, and there were times I went? ok... only way to settle this, a glucometer, and yes I did handle soem diabetic patients who assualted me... I also managed the drunk or two who did same... and hells bells was shot at many times, and the time I was chased by a nutso with an axe still lives in my memory...

[struggle4progress]

76. How many comatose patients have assaulted you? eom

[IDemo]

42. My take, again

I have had type 1 diabetes for 43 years and have a bit(!) of experience with situations like this.

First off, this was not a diabetic 'coma', which is what happens after an extended period of time with extremely high (600+) blood sugar levels, generally a couple of days or longer. I was in a coma for a week when I was diagnosed at the age of five.

What the individual in this story was experiencing is hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar. I don't display symptoms other people can notice until I'm in the low 40's or high 30's, probably because my body has become tolerant of hypoglycemia in much the same way an alcoholic may build up tolerance. Unfortunately what also happens in extreme hypoglycemia is that you are also dealing with a huge kick of adrenalin without the mental capacity needed to handle it. I punched a hole in the kitchen wall of a former residence, and put quite a nice dent in the refrigerator door of another. Luckily I have never been driving a vehicle under that condition.

A former karate instructor of mine, an EMT, told me he had needed to use force on two diabetics just to administer a glucagon injection.

I consider tasers to be a scourge which have gained too much popularity with police forces, especially in non-deadly situations. I don't know what the solution is, maybe an interactive medical alert bracelet (RFID...) to alert police and EMS crews that they are dealing with a victim of insulin shock.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Taht could be a good solutiion

and the reasion why I stayed away from the technical term for glucagon was most people don't know what I am talking about.

Yuor friend is not alone... I had to restraint a total of five patients over 10 yeasr, and one bit me quite nicely... that was another story for another day and another nightmare... good thing I was wearing a fire coat or I don't know the chunk that wold have been taken out.

I suspect the story is far from complete, and when it came to coma or shock, edumicating the press is hard... many a times we saw locally coma and we called the editor... so who cares not like most people know.


By the way keep safe

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. I realize that for many of you this is clear cut

it is not... these cases are very hard for officers and for patients, as well as familie and EMS...

Those of us who have been out there, done that understand this. Should the officers have tasered him? Probably not, but for them to taser him four times, he was fighting them. You have had so far a Medic tell you this happens as well as a Type One, insulin dependent diabetic... what will it take for you to raelize this is not as cut and dry as you think I don't know... but it is precisely this kind of thnking that does not allow for solutions.

Oh and by the way, you all think that tasers are that bad (they are), what is the alternative? Oh yes a 9mm or .45 ACP, ok... lets use a hammer for everhhing, lord knows eveything will look like a nail....

DO Tasers have problems? Yes

Are they sometimes over used? Absolutely.

Is this an issue with training? This whole case is an issue with training.

[TroubleMan]

78. 9 days in the hospital, punctured lung, 2 broken ribs

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1128677428307920.xml&coll=2

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record.

I can understand a few bruises, a black eye, or even one taser shock. However 9 days in the hospital, punctured lung, 2 broken ribs. That's just pure unadulterated malice. That's piling on and beating down a victim beyond subduing. That easily crosses the line of police brutality.

The points you make are very valid, until you realize how bad this guy was beaten down. A bunch of cops could subdue a professional fighter hyped up on cocaine and not do that much damage if they wanted to. It wasn't one on one...it was several cops, and one victim with a medical condition.

[sakabatou]

56. These cops need to be convicted

They didn't use good jusgement and failed to use their brains. -_-

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Of exactly what?

[sakabatou]

70. Excessive force for one....

The rest: :shrug:

[TroubleMan]

75. 9 days in the hospital, punctured lung, 2 broken ribs

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1128677428307920.xml&coll=2


That's why. That's way more than just "subduing" a belligerent suspect. That's police brutality without question.

[Gnostic]

65. Unbelievable....

We have criminal gangs roaming the streets in Ohio, Neo-Nazi's going marching and going after them, and all the cops are doing is arresting diabetics???

What the hell is wrong with this country?

[SoCalDem]

68. I am guessing that Mr Belford was black.

:(

[AspenRose]

109. So am I.

eom

[TroubleMan]

72. 9 days in the hospital, punctured lung, 2 broken ribs...that's a lot more

than just "subduing" someone. Especially when you figure that there were many cops and just one guy. I can understand a few bruises or even one taser shock, but broken ribs and a puctured lung is abuse...hands down. The cops should do jail time.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1128677428307920.xml&coll=2

"He spent nine days in the hospital with two broken ribs and a punctured lung following his run-in with police last spring."

[msmcghee]

79. All these comments seem to leave out . .

. . an important fact. Thanks to the decades old Republican War on Drugs there are not that many young people who join the police force for good reasons any more. Who wants to bust people and ruin their lives who are not hurting others. Only sickos, I'm afraid.

There have always been cops who could just as easily been crooks - and some were - but these days I think a very high percentage of young cops especially, are there to get paid for having the power of life and death over others - and for having the right to occasionally kick the shit out of people without any consequences.

My cousin's son joined the Long Beach force last year. He regaled the relatives last Christmas with "funny stories" about how this guy kept smashing his (my cousin's son's) fist with his face while he was arresting him.

You could see that he was enjoying his job immensely. Beating someone up is an emotional rush for these 20 something guys with big fucking guns on their belt. You can tell it made his day. It made me sick.

[TroubleMan]

80. That's an excellent point

You can't paint all cops with such a broad swathe, but it seems a lot of them enjoy the part that they should abhor.

It's the whole "us versus them" attitude. They see the people that they confront as less than human, or deserving of non-judicial punishment. Similar to what happened in Abu Ghraib.

[wellstone_democrat]

83. see mine above on the issue and why I left Law Enforcement

you are more right than you think.

[msmcghee]

89. Thanks for your firsthand view of this. n/t

[MountainLaurel]

84. Thank you for pointing this out

That's one of the reasons why domestic violence is a huge problem among police officers: One study showed that 40 percent of respondents admitted to hitting or slapping a spouse or child.

I have family who were police officers (and now work in corrections). Control freaks and sociopaths to a one. The sort who consider firearms to be a parenting tool.

And let's not forget that the #1 place where police recruit new officers: the military. Another bunch of well-adjusted souls.

[kineneb]

96. having seen hypoglycemia up close-

the cops over-reacted. Common symptoms, besides incoherence, are sweating, cold clammy skin, and pale skin. Hubby had a severe bout two summers ago that required an ambulance ride. He had overheated and his glucose reading was 41; he was rolling around on the floor almost totally incoherent. He was not able to eat or drink so the EMTs took him to the hospital where they gave him a glucose drip. If I had a glucose shot available, we could have avoided the trip. He wasn't mean or angry, in fact he could hardly speak (scared living crap out of me).

[IDemo]

97. kineneb, you need to have a glucagon kit available

Glucagon is a prescription medication. This isn't glucose, but an injection that will cause the liver to release glucose. And you don't need to be an EMT to administer it. At severe enough stages of insulin reaction, the candy bar or juice aren't going to cut it.

You probably have a better chance of assessing your loved one's condition and dealing with it appropriately than all but the best trained EMT's. In one case here, 8 or 10 years ago, they were fishing around our medicine cabinet instead of bothering to take a BG reading and taking the steps to deal with the situation correctly.

A former neighbor who is a registered nurse once admitted how she had dealt with a (home care) diabetic client who was experiencing hypoglycemic symptoms; she thought that an insulin injection may be appropriate. The unfortunate patient had at least enough mental capacity remaining to advise her this was not correct.

Unfortunately, what I invariably hear from friends and co-workers is: "So, if you're not too responsive, that means we need to get you an insulin shot, right?" -WRONG!!

[kineneb]

98. we have one now,

after that unpleasant adventure. Don't want to go there again.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

100. Exact same thing happened to a guy from a place I worked at

some years back.

He was black, which may or may not have had anything to do with it.

But he was acting strangely. There was no taser, but he wasn't treated well.

Fortunately the owners of the company went to bat for the guy and many people suggested to his wife to file charges or a law suit.

I never found out if she did.

[hullbert]

107. insulin shock can be very, very violent...

My older sister is a diabetic and one of the sweetest and most mild-mannered people you could ever meet. However, I have seen her go into insulin shock before, and you wouldn't believe the change. The most severe one she has ever experienced happened late one night after she had taken her insulin and fallen asleep on the couch before she had a chance to eat dinner. Later that night her husband woke up and heard her screaming and running around in the living room. In the end, it took her husband, two police officers, and two EMTs to subdue her. She didn't recognize anyone (including her children). My brother-in-law told me it was like she was possessed. She couldn't remember anything about the incident later and was horribly embarrassed and upset when she learned about what happened.
The point I am trying to make is that while I am not condoning the use of excessive force in any way, I could see where this sort of thing might happen. It really is hard to appreciate the sort of fight a diabetic can put up when in the midst of insulin shock.

[NorthernSpy]

108. except that NOTHING in this article suggests that the victim was violent!

The point I am trying to make is that while I am not condoning the use of excessive force in any way, I could see where this sort of thing might happen. It really is hard to appreciate the sort of fight a diabetic can put up when in the midst of insulin shock.

Yeah, yeah. You're not condoning excessive force, but...

:eyes:

I guess I'll have to point out once again that this article does not say that the victim in THIS case acted violently.

[hullbert]

110. the article doesn't really say one way or the other....

He could have been violent, which would be consistent with severe insulin shock, or he might not have been. The article is not clear on this point.

[NorthernSpy]

112. the article also doesn't say that Bush isn't a devil-worshipping cannibal

... and it doesn't say that he is.

So let's just declare the article "unclear" on this point, and leave ourselves free to assume that Dubya says grace with His Infernal Majesty in mind before tucking into a nice lunch of panfried human being.

:eyes:

I mean, as long as we're inventing "facts" to spice up news stories, why not invent some interesting ones?

[hullbert]

113. If it floats your boat...

by all means continue to invent interesting facts. But you've gotta mention horns. I mean what devil-worshiping cannibal worth his salt wouldn't have some concealed horns. Adds a human interest angle to the story and all...:evilgrin:

Back to the subject at hand, I don't recall inventing any "facts" about this particular case. But thanks for your concern about my reporting abilities.

[LynnTheDem]

114. Broke his RIBS...punctured his LUNG...tasered FOUR TIMES...

Gawd bless America RAH RAH RAH.

Jebus fucking Cripes.

[DS1]

117. Fucking pigs

powerhappy scumbags

[pfitz59]

121. Hyper-aggressive police

What happened to patience? Call an aid car and get a mediacl opinion. The driver wasn't going anywhere. Why were the cops so hot to drag him out from behind the wheel? What is this modern-day rush to action all about? Stop, look, think and assess the situation. It's like te whole country is on some video-game, steroid binge.....

[HoosierClarkie]

124. Living with a Type 1 diabetic I have to say

this issue is so important! I am glad that so many people have responded to this thread. Hopefully it will stay kicked. Diabetes is on the increase and cases like these are happening more often. People with diabetes must wear something like a wrist band to indicate to ems or police officers that they do have the disease. Doesn't seem like in this case that would have prevented ignorance. If this man was slumped over this means that he needed an emergency glucose shot not just a little sugar. Certainly not treated like he was. When you are nonresponsive, you are past the point of irritability or non compliance, you are dying. Many people are just ignorant period. Like the teacher who ripped out a kids insulin pump because he thought it was a pager!

Anyway, diabetes is scary, but ignorance is more so. :(

Truly horrifying story for me who fears this could happen to my husband.

[caligirl]

128. Mom of a 17 year old, type i and about to do his driver test. This

just scares the living shit out of me. I lay awake nights freaked out sometimes about this kind of stuff.



My son had to answer a ton of questions, after getting his learner permit, from a hearing officer and turn in medical documentation to verify his level of control of blood glucose. Fortunately he has a pump and tight control. a1c around 6 for a couple years now. He has great grades and high SAT scores(740 720 700)so he is looking at going to some very good schools AWAY from home.

While you guys argue this i am getting ready to let this highly intelligent and responsible hs senior go off to the college he wants to and live his life. He is a gem of a kid and his teachers all love him.
He has to move on and live life. NO siezures or LOC yet in 3.5 years with his lowest a 36 due to carb count error shortly after diagnoses. Never had glucagon so far.

It is just hard to live with this and this article didn't help.

ps, we bought him a very nice silver medic alert bracelet id which he likes to wear and pay for the service they offer. I am thinking of a medic alert decal for the car though.

[HoosierClarkie]

141. If this helps...

my husband went away to college and played basketball. All of his friends,teachers,coaches, and roommates had to be aware of what to do. My husband just got the pump and it scares me because it does run his sugars low. In theory it sounds good, but it makes it more difficult to "feel low" for him.

Your son sounds like a great kid and like he has good control. Best of luck. :hug:

[progressivebydesign]

125. Common sense. If someone is violent and belligerent...

does it really matter why? Do police officers with guns really have the luxury of obtaining a medical history while battling a billigerent man? the rule of police is that you cannot lose control of someone in those situations, simply because you risk losing control of your weapon. If the person was having a diabetic reaction that made them violent, and as one diabetic posted here that it can make you violent, then why would the police simply let this man attack them? Would it be different if it were a drug induced rage? an alcohol induced rage? A psychotic incidence?

I understand the problem that a story like this presents... a diabetic man being roughed up, but he did contribute to it by his belligerence and physical resistance. I really wish some people here would do ride alongs with police and understand that you do not have the luxury of finding out why someone is trying to kick the shit out of you, and risk getting your weapon. Sounds like the poor man needed to be restrained for his own safety, if he had no capacity at that time (due to his condition) to realize he was breaking the law and endangering himself and others.

Flame away... cuz DU is the cop-hating place.

[Kailassa]

132. We don't hate cops, we hate lies.

Why keep making things up? There is no report of him being violent, there is no report of him being beligerant and there is no report of him fighting at all, let alone "trying to kick the shit out of" anyone.

And if you consider being tasered 4 times, getting a pierced lung and broken ribs to just be getting "roughed up" I just hope you are not in the police force.

"Aww, the poor man, he needs to be restrained for his own safety. But just think, he'll be even safer if we half kick him to death first."

[NorthernSpy]

134. did you even READ the damn article?

According to the article, the police attacked the victim with pepperspray after finding him slumped over the steering wheel of his car. Their violence toward the man began when he did not leave the vehicle.

The article does not report ANY violent behavior on the part of the victim. If you don't believe me, try reading the goddamn thing yourself.

:eyes:

Flame away... cuz DU is the cop-hating place.

No, we're a dumbass-hating place.

[Kailassa]

135. Well, Northern Spy, swear at me all you like,

I guess when you don't have the facts on your side that's the way to go.

I always read and research before posting on a thread, and the facts reported were that the man did not get out of the car by himself, (for all we know he was unable to,) and he tried to stop the police handcuffing him, (which is not surprising if he was confused and frightened.)

I read your post for further clarification of the facts, but the only violence you point out is that of the police toward this man.

I'm a woman in my fifties and have a 6'4" son who's medical condition sometimes causes him to go berserk, and I've floored him when he has attacked me with a knife. So don't try to tell me a bunch of trained police officers could not get this man to the ground any more gently than they did.

[NorthernSpy]

137. take a deep breath, and then check to see WHICH post I was replying to

I wasn't replying to your post. I was replying to the same post that you replied to. Just look at the thread diagram again.

And actually, I was agreeing with you. I've got about a billion posts in this thread, and all of them are in protest of the vicious cruelty that was inflicted on the diabetic victim.

[Kailassa]

138. My apologies, NorthernSpy.

That's a relief, I'm all in favour of you swearing at anyone who is defending the severe injuring of ill people.

Friends?

[NorthernSpy]

139. friends? sure!

:hug:

[TroubleMan]

136. It's not that they subdued him, it's that they did more than that.

Breaking ribs and punctured lungs is more than subduing somebody. It's way more than just "restraining somebody." They took him down, and then beat the shit out of him.

It wasn't one cop trying to subdue a crazed man. It was several cops taking down one man in a stupor. Even if he was belligerent or violent. Several cops with tasers can take somebody down without breaking ribs and puncturing lungs. I would agree with you if this guy just had a few bruises or a broken arm or something. That can happen when subduing a violent suspect. However, this guy had 9 days in the hospital, two broken ribs, and punctured lung.

These cops subdued him, and then they beat the shit out him when he was down. That's why they should be in jail.

You can't tell me that in the process of subduing somebody you are going to puncture their lung and break their ribs. Injuries like that don't happen in the process of restraining somebody. That kind of injury happens when they're kicking somebody on the ground.

These cops beat the shit out of this guy in pure unadulterated malice...they didn't just simply subdue a violent suspect. There's no way he gets injuries like that from just being subdued. It doesn't matter what the suspect does - they are not allowed to beat the shit out of him after subduing him, which is what they did. They tried to give him some "payback" for resisting arrest.

[CBGLuthier]

140. He wasn't in his right mind

Blaming the victim in this case is sickening.

Beating the shit out of someone to the point they are hospitalized is sickening.

And no, to me it does not make a difference why he did not follow the cops orders. Cops are paid to do a job and to do it professionally. When they turn into animals like this they need to be fired and arrested.

Period.

[High Plains]

149. What crap!

You need to do a better job of defending police brutality at all costs. This is really weak, even by your standards.

1. "...battling a billigerent man..."--he was slumped over at the wheel. What belligerance? Hmmm, maybe after they MACED him out his coma, he didn't put his arms behind his back fast enough? By the way, any reports of police injuries from this comatose belligerant?

2. "...why would the police simply let this man attack them..."--This phrase was preceded by a couple of "ifs" having to do with whether the diabetic guy was violent. Uh, there is nothing in the story to indicate he was. Instead, I suggest you look at the outcome. Now, tell me who was being violent?

3. "...did he contribute to it by his belligerance and physical resistance..."--Well, gee, I don't know. All I can go on is the news stories, in which his biggest sin (after being a diabetic) was allegedly resisting being cuffed. So this team of Akron's finest has to beat the mace, taser, and beat the crap out of the diabetic coma guy in order to subdue him? Possibly, I suppose, but it does seem a bit unlikely.

I wonder, Regressivebyresult, if you have ever commented on a case of police brutality and found the police to be at fault? Or is your defense of the police at all costs simply reflexive?

[HoosierClarkie]

151. Common sense. If someone is ignorant and hateful

does it really matter why? Get a clue.

[The Wielding Truth]

129. Tasers are cruel and unusual means of restraint. Should not be used.

Akron police over reacted from sound of this story.Hope officers are retrained and admonished for their actions.

[Lerkfish]

152. diabetic here...however, let's take this apart from diabetes for a moment

Go back to the initial situation: man is slumped over the steering wheel of his car. Whether drunk, or in diabetic distress, the MAN IS POSING NO THREAT TO ANYONE at that moment.
Why did the man need to be out of the car so badly they pepper-sprayed him?

that, to me, is the crux of the problem. The fact he is diabetic just distracts from the original transgression of the police anyhow.

Now, being diabetic, I sincerely hope if someday, if I am slumped over my steering wheel, unable to comply with officers, that the LAST thing that should happen to me is pepper spray, broken bones and tasering. ESPECIALLY because diabetics usually have in tandem heart and circulation problems...making them the most dangerous victims of taser blasts.

I DON'T CARE if diabetic distress is difficult to diagnose. NO ONE should have been treated that way. period.