Al Qaeda's Zarqawi backs killing civilian 'infidels'

[sabra]

http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=L07595171

Al Qaeda's Zarqawi backs killing civilian 'infidels' -Web

DUBAI, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Iraq's al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi said militants were justified under Islam in killing civilians as long as they are infidels, according to an audio tape attributed to him on Friday.

"Islam does not differentiate between civilians and military (targets) but rather distinguishes between Muslims and infidels," said the man on the tape posted on the Internet, who sounded like Zarqawi.

"Muslim blood must be spared ... but it is permissible to spill infidel blood," said the speaker.

The comments appeared a day after the Pentagon said it had obtained a letter to Zarqawi from al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahri, saying tactics being used such as bombing mosques and killing hostages might alienate the Muslim masses.

[neweurope]

1. I just can't believe all this. Sorry, but to me it sounds like

what a Bushista script writer would THINK a muslim extremist might say. It all sounds too much like Hollywood: "Bold Eagle wants that squaw. Hough!"

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[Name removed]

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[itaintoveryet]

5. wonder how long

you will last day2. you clearly are an ignorant, know-nothing, troll. get some education and then come back. JERK.

[Daphne08]

6. Give me a break!

I've lived in the Middle East and your statement is ridiculous! Go tell Rush I said so, too!

[neweurope]

7. If you're serious, you should do much reading and much more

thinking.

That's just what they've been doing the last two thousand years, haven't they... "converting non-muslims and killing them if they don't"?

It's not the MUSLIMS but the Bushistas and the US-religious nuts who are shouting for holy war. Any muslim violence in the last decades had nothing to do with religion, but everything with politics. With Palestine, for instance.

"Genital mutilation" is NOT a Muslim thing. A hell of a lot of Muslim women WANT to wear the Burkha. Most Muslim women DON'T feel as if they're being treated like cattle, as that terrible looking woman (forgot her name) who just went to Turkey and Egypt to make Bushista propaganda found out.

And you know what? I have absolutely NO fear of Islam "overrunning Europe and clitorizing the women". None whatsoever.

What I AM afraid of is some CIA agents blowing up another European train station. What I am afraid of are uninformed people like you, also.

My goodness.

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[LetsGoMurphys]

12. While I dont agree with what Day2 has to say

I don't respect when someone tells someone they are uninformed then spew complete garbage about the CIA blowing up a train station. Where the hell do you pull stuff like this. This severely hurts your credibility and makes it very hard for me to take you seriously. Also the radical Muslims who do promote terror do so in the name of Islam. While they don't represent the vast majority of Muslims they are doing it for religion, just like the fundies here.

[neweurope]

18. It would be nice if you did believe me but I won't loose any sleep

if you don't.

Read up on "Operation Gladio" and the Bologna train station.

If they are doing anything in the name of their religion it is because they need something to unite them and to rallye behind. But this whole conflict is no "Muslims against the rest of the world" thing. At least it hasn't been but with fundamentalists on both sides gaining strength it might well come to this.

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[boardwalk]

15. They love their burkas eh?

YOu write "A hell of a lot of Muslim women WANT to wear the Burkha. Most Muslim women DON'T feel as if they're being treated like cattle"

I believe in the early 1900's they were saying essentially the same thing about the attitude of slaves; hell, they (the slaves) liked it according to those that wanted to retain the "quant" custom of slavery! Not only did they like it according to these people; it is the only life they have ever known so they would be lost not being a slave!

I think you are saying the same thing about Muslim women without having a clue that what you believe is helping keep them in their own slavery.

Have you read the Quran lately? What does it say about Homosexuality? It appears the angel of God was much more explicit about what God was telling Muhammed to do about homosexuality than he was in the Christian Bible. Read up on the penalties for Homosexuality in Muslim countries please.

[Name removed]

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[neweurope]

21. I have a Muslim homosexual friend.

True he might not live openly in Iran.... but 30 yeras ago he wouldn't have been able to in Western countries, either.

However I didn't even mention homosexuality and Islam. What I did say was that a lot of Muslim women want to wear the Burkha, and that is true, I've been reading a lot about it.

Most Muslim women are not "slaves". Give me a break. I'm all for helping a woman who does not want to wear the Burkha or who feels like a slave. But I'll wait until she asks me.

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[Name removed]

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[Bridget Burke]

23. FGM predates Islam.

The practice began in Africa--long before Islam. Some modern African practitioners are still Animists.

Most Muslims do NOT practice FGM. It is not mentioned in the Koran. The Hadith (sayings of Mohammad) only deal with it peripherally.

Islam is not a culture. It is a religion.

[ck4829]

28. The West has practiced it

It's happened here as recently as 1958.

"Through the 1950s, some doctors continued to advocate clitoridotomy for hygienic reasons or to reduce masturbation. For example, C.F. McDonald wrote in a 1958 paper titled Circumcision of the Female <4>,<5>, "If the male needs circumcision for cleanliness and hygiene, why not the female? I have operated on perhaps 40 patients who needed this attention." The author describes symptoms as "irritation, scratching, irritability, masturbation, frequency and urgency," and in adults, smegmaliths causing "dyspareunia and frigidity." The author then reported that a two-year old was no longer masturbating so frequently after the procedure. Of adult women, the author stated that "for the first time in their lives, sex ambition became normally satisfied." In the U.S., the last documented clitoridotomy to reduce sexual activity occurred in 1958. The procedure was performed on a 5-year-old girl, reportedly to stop her from masturbating. Justification of the procedure on hygienic grounds, or to reduce masturbation, has since declined. The view that masturbation is a cause of mental and physical illness has dissipated since the mid-20th century"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting

[ck4829]

31. PS - It also happens with Christians too

"It is also common among African Christians in some countries, and believed to be justified on religious grounds. For example, in Ethiopia some "Coptic Christian priests refuse to baptize girls who have not undergone one of the FGM procedure." "

http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10098.htm

[itaintoveryet]

29. what ???

does FGM have to do with Islam ? NOTHING, it is not permissible. just a few years ago i heard about this being practiced in parts of Egypt and other places in and around Africa. clearly this is something that is cultural to those areas and is not widespread in Islamic societies. before Islam the Arabs used to bury their infant daughters alive because they considered them to be a shame and Islam put an end to that and many other things that would subjugate and humiliate women. it is up to you to read authentic literature on Islam and any other religion before spouting off.

[neweurope]

32. Yes. Jews, Christians, Muslims and Nature religions.

It has nothing whatsoever to to with Muslims or with any other RELIGION. It's a CULTURAL thing mainly in Africa where it has been done for over 4000 years.

But in the 19th century even British doctors thought that Genital Mutilation could heal "hysteria" and "excessive masturbation".

In most countries genital mutilation is FORBIDDEN but people do it anyway.

Please forget the notion that genital mutilation is a "Muslim" thing. It is truly not.

I just did some googling and found a lot. Unfortunately all in German - but I'm sure there must be even much more in English.

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[madrchsod]

8. you still here?

go back to your aryan nation....

[ck4829]

9. Hmmm....

And, I suppose you've never heard of the NLFT, a RW 'christian' group in India that forcibly converts people to Christianity.

BTW, I'm a Muslim and I don't think that people need to Convert, I also think that anyone who abuses women is just plain evil, and I support Gay Rights.

Genital Mutilation is also older than Islam and can be found outside Islamic Culture.

[OKNancy]

All religions have their nuts and fundies.

Killing civilians is a bad bad thing, but most Muslims don't think or act like the fundie nut Muslims.

[Name removed]

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[OKNancy]

22. You aren't reading the right publications then

I did a very quick search. There are tons of references to Muslim condemning terrorism and terrorist acts.

the first three on google:
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/008824.php

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1410339.htm

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Now, if one only listens to Fox or Limbaugh, then one would not hear these things.

[tx_dem41]

10. It sounds to me exactly what a terrorist would say.

And, Zarqawi is a cold-blooded murderer. What's not to believe?

[neweurope]

11. For one thing I don't believe that Zarqawi exists - not as a

real "terrorist"... For another how do you know "what a terrorist would say"? Is there a certain way terrorists speak?

If you want to believe it go ahead - I don't and I won't.

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[tatertop]

13. Zarqawi : more hoax than man

I agree with you.

[tx_dem41]

14. Do you believe that Islamic terrorists exist? n/t

[neweurope]

25. I believe that there are terrorists who are Muslims... yes.

I also do believe that if the Palestine question isn't solved, if Iraq and Afghanistan stay occupied, if the talk of waging war on the whole Middle East continues - that then we will truly have Muslim terrorism.

However I do not believe that terrorists speak in any certain way. And the piece above sounds like Hollywood to me, as I said.

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[tx_dem41]

26. Up until the last sentence, I agreed with everything you posted.

Maybe we should just be happy with that. :)

[neweurope]

36. Yes :)

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[Bridget Burke]

27. Some terrorists are Muslim.

But is spreading Islam their motive?

Often they are resisting what they see as imperialism.

[tx_dem41]

34. I don't see that as their true motive.

It is one they purport to have though to recruit new terrorists from the street and the mosques. Their true motive is not to resist imperialism...it is to create their own despotic imperialism centered on the Arabian peninsula.

[neweurope]

35. Exactly. That is the problem - so far.

But if things keep going as they do - then terrorists truly might try to "spread Islam". Like Christian fundies already are trying.

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[bowens43]

2. Always remember that Bush let Zarqawi walk

so that Powell could use him in his plea to the UN to support the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. All the deaths that have been attributed to Zarqawi or will attributed to Zarqawi can also be attributed to the Bush administration.

[tatertop]

4. use of 'Zarqawi' = attention: US propaganda

I never believe a word of it

[leesa]

20. More BS...besides, we kill more civilians than Zarqawi can ever kill

[tx_dem41]

24. So that makes the numbers he does kill somehow acceptable?

Not sure I follow you on that.

[No Exit]

30. No, but doesn't it make sense to go after the one who kills

more, first, and THEN go for the one who kills less?

The Bush administration IS "the terrorists". Zarqawi is their creation. It has been reported many times that he is dead.
Do I know for sure he is dead? No. But I have no one's word--but that of the Bush administration-- to tell me he is alive, or a threat. And their word's not good enough.

[tx_dem41]

33. I care and am concerned that terrorism exists...under any name.

To deny that one side of it exists is not idea that I want the Democratic Party to sign onto. What I do want them to do, is provide a policy addressing how they would combat terrorism.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

38. signing on to truth--is it possible that terrorism is BECAUSE of POLICY?

Al Qaida didn't exist in Iraq before our illegal invasion-this is a well known fact -

Maybe you could be ok with the Democratic (Republikkkin Lite) Party signing on to that idea-????????????????????


Now, U.S. occupation is a very successful recruiting tool for terrorism--and give them first hand experience and training against real live U.S. troops and Iraqi civillians.

POLICY: out of Iraq NOW--no more taking over other people's countries- taking the billions wasted and building a defense network at HOME!!!look at Katruina!!!

OPEN EYES can see more than closed ones!!!!!!!!!
:eyes:

[No Exit]

40. Yes, it is possible!

Great point!

The Iraq invasion isn't about terrorism anyway--it's about empire. (I would go further and say that even the Afghanistan invasion was about empire. I don't expect many people to agree with that, until/unless they take a long hard look at 9/11. What cold, hard, facts do we REALLY know about the perpetrators of 9/11??)

To return to your point, I think you've hit on how/why Cheney says "decades of war". The whole PURPOSE of the administration's actions actually seems to be to roil middle easterners into becoming terrorists--thus providing us with plenty of people to fight against, and thus creating the outcome that Cheney wants: decades of war (and of huge profits for him, and of martial law and loss of personal freedoms, etc., etc.)

[tx_dem41]

41. Your eyes aren't opening up to the fact that I am not limiting myself..

to talking about Iraq only. I'm talking about the entire ME region as well as Indonesia/Malaysia/Phillipines. Why do I care if AQ existed in Iraq before our invasion? AQ existed in the world before our invasion and that's all that matters.

And of course our policy in past Admins contributed to the rise of terrorism. But, hiding behind a Fortress America is not going to make terrorism go away. Its a very Republican paleo-con idea that was tried once in the country unsuccessfully. I don't want to live in a world where the Arabian Peninsula is ruled by terrorists. We need to address the fact that millions of people in countries in Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia for example are living under oppressive regimes (with the support of our policy) and many are seeing that the only alternative readily available are thru terrorism. By hiding behind our borders, we can do nothing to change that. We need to change our policy to aid such a change, but withdrawal does nothing to help those people. Neither does invasion. Someone has to find a middle ground.

[No Exit]

39. The first step of any such policy should be knowing WHO the terrorists

really are. I'm sick of the hoopla over shadowy figures like Zarqawi and, yes, even Bin Laden.

I'm sick of not getting answers about extremely fishy stories like the Nick Berg affair and that nut who bills himself as "the American terrorist"--whose tapes are played on TV as though they were to be taken as gospel truth.

Remember when John Kerry was jeered for saying that this whole "terror" thing was more of a crime issue than a national-level defense issue? He was jeered because he had just pulled back the curtain that showed that little man who was running the big "Wizard of Oz" face.

[tx_dem41]

43. Americans in general have a bad habit of having to personalize...

any issue. Thus, we have bogeymen like Zarqawi and Bin Laden. This isn't anything new. Just because they exist, doesn't mean they are not dangerous and especially that their ideas are not something that doesn't need to be of concern.

Yes, our past policies have greatly aided the creation of such movements, that's why I am imploring the Democratic Party to develop a NEW policy to address this issue. Withdrawal into our borders is just not an option given the role that technology plays in the world today.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

37. Chimp supports killing Non-Christian civilian"infidels"-Shock & AWE

Plus those Brits were caught by local police planting bombs on civilian populations and they were dressed as Iraqis
..they had to break them out of jail-REMEMBER?
The higher ups had to hush up that story before it ever came out--so much they didn't mind letting out 150 other prisoners when they rolled over the city jail walls with a tank.

Is this a warning that the * admin is planning many more serious attacks against the civillian population of occupied Iraq (job insurance)?

[superconnected]

42. didn't we kill Zarqawi a few times

like when we shot up that wedding party.
(so they said to justify killing innocent ppl having a wedding) Yes we did.

This is more propaganda for to make Americans fear islamic ppl. My the administration is spreading it on thick lately.