Tourist boat capsizes on Lake George (NY) killing 19 (CNN)

[SIU_Blue]

Breaking news on CNN.com.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/02/boat.overturned/index.html

edit to include link.

[LifeDuringWartime]

1. link

http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=151585

The Warren County Sheriff's Department has confirmed that the Lake George tour boat "Ethan Allen" has flipped over in the lake.

The boat was reportedly carrying around 50 senior citizens when it overturned. The number of injuries is unknown.

Callers said a staging area has been set up at Hearth Stone Point.

The 40-foot boat is run by Shoreline Cruises in Lake George.

[maddezmom]

2. Reuters: Upstate NY tour boat capsizes, 19 killed

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-10-02T211631Z_01_DIT275584_RTRUKOC_0_US-CRASH-TOURBOAT.xml

[WePurrsevere]

3. 19?! OMG... I grew up going to Lk George...

those tourist boats are one of those really enjoyable things to do when in Lake George and the Adirondacks.

I need to find out which one and what happened...


edited to add: Thank you for the links.

[SIU_Blue]

4. I believe that the boat was full of seniors

and that was the reason for the high number of fatalities.

[WePurrsevere]

6. Yes. My parents are members of a seniors group that go on tours,

trips, etc. A Lake George cruise/tour is one of those things they go to every year and the boats are usually very safe and many are fairly accessible so even those who are not very mobile can go and enjoy the beauty of the lake.

From what I've just read it was the Mohican that flooded and flipped the Ethan Allen. The Mohican is a bit larger then the Ethan Allen if I remember correctly. What surprises me is that they got so close as to cause this to happen. This is a normal every day run that's been done quite a few times a day during decent weather for years on the Lake. Today's weather in northern NY has been a perfect one for touring on the lake... clear, cool & calm.

I just talked to my parents yesterday and they didn't mention they were going anywhere "fun" today (they're thankfully VERY active Seniors) but I think I need to make a phone call. This is going to hit them a bit since I know they'll identify... I just hope those that died aren't folks they know.

[NashVegas]

8. The Mohican Is Ancient

I went on a school trip on that around 1973.

Damn.

[WePurrsevere]

11. Yes, that and the Minnie Ha ha are both up there...

going on one of those "cruise" boats has always been something fun that many of us did/do if we live within a couple of hours of that area.


::sigh::: "Damn" certainly does sum it up pretty well.

[Rhiannon12866]

46. It certainly is ancient! I just looked it up. This is local news for me,

since I live about 15 minutes south of Lake George and have ridden on these boats all of my life, though never on the smaller one which sank today.;(

Here's some info on the Mohican II, since there was an even earlier boat by the same name. It has been running on Lake George since being launched in 1907! Yikes! Apparently, it was converted to diesel in 1946 and renovated in 1967. And if it was built and originally launched from Baldwin dock, in Ticonderoga, this was just around the corner from where I lived, as a child. From the window of my room I could look straight down the lake and watched the Mohican and the Ticonderoga (my personal favorite, which was scrapped just a few years ago :-() turn around on the north end of the lake, everyday, all summer. And the Ticonderoga used to be in dry dock, during the winter, just across the road from me. My Dad used to take us to "visit" it while it was there. I loved those boats!:bounce:

http://www.lakegeorgesteamboat.com/mohican.html

[Lavender Brown]

26. So did I

This is unreal, I can't believe it.

[AlphaCat]

5. I'm terribly sorry.

Let's keep a good thought for those people and their families...

[ClintonTyree]

7. The Ethan Allen III

I've ridden on that boat before, I wonder how it capsized? It's not blowing too bad, at least here in Central New York. As a matter of fact it's a gorgeous fall day, temps in the low 80's. :shrug: I wonder what could have happened? So sad. :cry:

[Historic NY]

9. Sad........Lake George is a beautiful location this time of the year.....

trees are popping. Its been a busy couple of weeks with the big street rod show. This weekend is the big flea markets at Warrensburg...lots of people. I have some friends who are up there for the weekend. I watched the video at both cnn & capitol. Cruising the lake has always been a fun thing to do.

[Historic NY]

10. 21 perished, 29 accounted for including the Capt.

news accounts state the Ethan Allen (small one) was making a turn when it passed through the wake of the larger boat causing it to capsize. All passengers were senior citizens.

[henslee]

14. How the heck did this happen?

[WePurrsevere]

19. Good question... since basic boating teaches to watch out for the wake.

a Captain would certainly know how dangerous a wake can be.

[henslee]

20. I grew up on the water, have nothing but respect for the sea...

Once fell overboard in wintertime in the NE. Almost died.

[Rhiannon12866]

50. I posted the latest from the 11pm news and the story from the local paper.

According to the local (Albany, NY) news, it was a "fluke accident," in which conditions were perfect to cause this tragedy. They are speculating that passengers suddenly moved to one side of the boat, while, at the same time, the Ethan Allen was caught in the wake of a much larger tour boat, while making a turn. The fact that many of the members of this Michigan senior citizens' tour group were quite elderly must have contributed to the high casualty count and the number of injuries. At 11pm they said that there were 21 killed, 28 injured, which must have been everyone on the boat, since the capacity was only 50...:-(

More details:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1821942&mesg_id=1822502

[henslee]

54. The perfect ripple.

[Benhurst]

12. How sad. This country is getting more and more

"third world" every day.

[WePurrsevere]

15. Huh? How does this accident relate to your "third world" comment?

Although I tend to agree with you about our becoming more "third world" in some ways at the moment I can't seem to be able to make the leap to how this horrible and possibly very stupid accident relates to that.

[Benhurst]

21. No lifejackets required? Sounds very third world to me.

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. I can't believe lifejackets weren't required. Where did that come from?

[Benhurst]

24. See post #17.

[lynne]

42. According to the actual posted article -

- there were life jackets aboard and some managed to get them on. Usually in those situation, the jackets are aboard, in benches, hanging on the walls, etc. I would imagine that maybe they didn't have the time or presence of mind to get them on.

From the article:

"Joanne Rahal said she was on her boat with her children when they saw smoke and went to investigate.

There was all these people in the water," she said. "A lot of them had life jackets. Some of them didn't, so we were trying to throw life jackets and get as many people on our boat as we could."

[NeoConsSuck]

23. Especially when we're talking senior citizens..

don't know too many senior citizens who are great swimmers.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. 50 person capacity and no life jackets? How the hell can that be?

That's no small vessel by any means.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. If it is true, the boat operators were really rolling the dice

Totally insane and irresponsible, if true.

I still don't believe it.

[Historic NY]

32. regulations

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_pfd.htm

[WePurrsevere]

36. It will be interesting to see if life jackets were on the boat..

and just not worn since "tourist boat"...

From the article I posted:
"News10 has been told that because the boat is a small tour boat, life jackets are not required and witnesses say none of the people on board had them on."

Obviously from the link you posted to the Fed regs it is required that they be on the boat and available (and I don't see any mention of a waiver due to size or function) ... but I doubt it's required to wear them since the only ship/boat I've been on that had a drill to get a life jacket was a cruise ship many many years ago.

As I said before though.. in this case, with the boat being flipped by the wake, there would probably not have been time to think much less get a life jacket released from where it was stored and on a person.

If the boat line didn't have them available on board and from reading the Fed regs they obviously are required to, then IMO their butts should be toast no matter what.. what I want to know even more so is... WHY they foolishly turned that little craft into the Mohicans wake in the first place... dealing with a wake is basic boating... at least it used to be.

[WePurrsevere]

30. Okay... that makes some sense although it sounds just plain foolish to me

NYS promotes wearing life jackets even in a dingy I can't imagine why they wouldn't have them required to be available for a commercial ship of ANY size. Hopefully this tragedy will make it legally required from now on.

That said however... even if there HAD been life jackets on the Ethan Allen if it hit the wake and flipped as it sounds like it did there would probably would not have been time for folks to go get and put on a life jacket... perhaps even more so with seniors. The other thing is that this boat is glass enclosed, if it flipped people would have probably been trapped inside the glass enclosed area and possibly would have had to swim to get out. This would be difficult for healthy folks no less many seniors and disabled I know.

[Renew Deal]

13. That's crazy.

The water is calm up there. I wonder why this happened.

[SIU_Blue]

16. See post 10

wake can be very bad from larger vessels. I guess this was one of those cases, very sad.

[NashVegas]

34. Yes

I grew up 10 minutes from Lake George.

We used to go swimming in Shepherd's Park all the time (public beach near the boat dock) and would get the waves from the tourist ships when they went by. By the time they would get to us at the beach, they weren't HUGE - just enough to have some real fun - but they were the biggest waves we would catch on the Lake.

[Cassandra]

44. I went to summer camp on Lake George

Camp Arcady.

[NeoConsSuck]

18. Combination of events..

the smaller boat was making a left turn, everyone on the smaller boat moved to the left side, and the boat was hit on the right side by the wake.

This info came from Capital News 9.

[Renew Deal]

28. There's going to be major lawsuits if anyone was speeding.

And probably even if they weren't.

[WePurrsevere]

17. A bit more info from "Local" News.... WTEN out of Albany

(posted: October 3rd, 6:00pm) A small cruise ship has overturned in Still Bay, on Lake George, throwing 49 people into the water. Twenty-one people have been confirmed dead, and everyone is now accounted for.

Shoreline Cruise ship "Ethan Allen" overturned in Lake George around 3:30 this afternoon. The boat holds a maximum of fifty people. News10 has been told that because the boat is a small tour boat, life jackets are not required and witnesses say none of the people on board had them on.

The group aboard the "Ethan Allen" was a Canadian tour group of senior citizens. Many were said to have walkers and wheelchairs.

No information on why the vessel overturned.

[Historic NY]

31. Another story

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051002/ap_on_re_us/boat_overturned

Common sense says life jackets should have been on those people unable to walk, swim or fend for themselves. Especially since this was a small vessel of only 40ft and the crew consisted of only the Capt. There would have been no help in an emergency as we now see has occurred. They would have saved some if not all of the passengers.

[Rose Siding]

35. AP has the sheriff saying it happened too fast to put on jackets-

but not that they weren't required:

snip>
Authorities were investigating whether a large passing tour boat created a wake that caused the accident, Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland said.

The 40-foot, glass-enclosed Ethan Allen capsized around 3 p.m. on Lake George about 50 miles north of Albany in the Adirondack Mountains.

The accident apparently happened so fast that none of the passengers was able to put on a life jacket, Cleveland said.

link

[WePurrsevere]

37. Thank you, that's what I've been saying... it would have been very fast...

there would have been no time and with the glass enclosure being up (I thought I remembered it with glass) it would have also been harder to escape to the outside especially for seniors who may have been mobility impaired or who couldn't swim.

[malaise]

39. Too fast to put on jackets.

I thought they would have to have on jackets before the trip started.
How sad. The elderly in New Orleans; the elderly in Texas and now this. Makes you wonder who is looking out for the senior citizens!!

[Cooley Hurd]

29. From the website of the operators of the Ethan Allen...

http://www.lakegeorgeshoreline.com/boats_ethanallen.html

<snip>
THE ETHAN ALLEN - One Hour Cruises



Enjoy a personalized one hour narrated cruise aboard the Algonquin, Ethan Allen, or De Champlain. These boats travel closest to and cover more of the Lake George Shoreline than any other 1 hour cruise boat on the lake. Travel close to shore and capture the history and magnificent beauty of tranquil bays, secluded islands, and million dollar mansions along the way. Our tours are educational, perfect for children, and our captains are available to answer any questions you may have.
</snip>

Another picture of it from http://www.painetworks.com/froogle/ib/ib1610.html

[WePurrsevere]

33. Odd... I remember it being more enclosed (at least in the cooler weather)

... it's been a while and a very long day though so maybe I'm fogged a bit.

[CHIMO]

38. 21 Canadian seniors reported dead as U.S. tour boat overturns

21 Canadian seniors reported dead as U.S. tour boat overturns
Last Updated Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:24:41 EDT
CBC News

At least 21 Canadian seniors are believed to have died when a tour boat carrying 49 people on an afternoon cruise overturned Sunday on a lake in upstate New York, the county sheriff there said.

But Sunday evening, New York state Assemblywoman Betty Little said the group of senior citizens was from Trenton, Mich.

Cleveland said it appears the accident happened so fast, none of the passengers was able to put on a life jacket. "I don't believe anyone had time," he said.

As rescuers conducted recovery efforts, the 21 dead were laid out along the shore and the scene was blocked off by police with tarps. Cleveland said a language barrier was slowing the process of notifying the victims' families -- lending credence to early speculation that the passengers were from Quebec. The upstate New York area is popular with tourists from Quebec and eastern Ontario.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/10/02/ethan_allen20051002.html

21 die as tour boat overturns

Lake George, N.Y. — At least 21 seniors are believed to have died when a tour boat carrying 49 people on an afternoon cruise overturned Sunday on a lake in upstate New York, the county sheriff said.

Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland initially said the tour boat was carrying a group from Canada but other authorities said later they were from Michigan.

State Assemblywoman Betty Little is reported to have stated the group of senior citizens was from Trenton, Mich.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051002.wboat1002/BNStory/National/

Things still seems to be in a state of confusion.

[Rhiannon12866]

49. Apparently, the tour company was Canadian, but the group was from Michigan

According to the local (Albany, NY) ABC affiliate, on the 11pm news broadcast, the group was from Trenton, Michigan, a blue-collar town south of Detroit, and they call themselves "The Trenton Travelers." This must have been what caused the confusion.:shrug:

[malaise]

52. Correct

snip
There were initial reports from police at the scene that many of the dead appeared to be from Canada, but police later confirmed that Canadians were not among the dead.

Reports said the company that organized the tour was based in Ontario, but most of the victims were reported to be from Trenton, Mich.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051002.wboat1002/BNStory/National/

Very sad.

[Rhiannon12866]

57. I know. And it is incredibly sad, and has to have been avoidable.

My little neck of the woods rarely makes the national news, and it's not exactly a source of pride to be spotlighted for this. Lake George is a lovely place and the boat tours are one of the most popular and best attractions. This is probably the end for Shoreline Cruises, which is also very sad, since they were building up their business to be competitive with the big guy, just sank a ton of money into a top-of-the-line larger boat. It's just so very sad for all concerned. And thanks for the additional information. I think people were far too shocked to even be thinking straight, before now.;(

[carrowsboy]

40. Sad!

They should have went to Martha's Dandee Cream instead.

[whirlygigspin]

41. video link

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051002/boat_overturns_051002/20051002?hub=TopStories

Includes link to report and Sheriff's update.

-video link on right of page

[Rhiannon12866]

58. When were you at Martha's? LOL!

My choice was vanilla with strawberries and a plain dish for my dog. We also used to go there for lunch, on break from The Great Escape. When were you there and did you know Martha? I met her once. Great lady.:D

[Sacajawea]

43. To All of DU's Canadian Friends...

I would like to extend my condolences to you. This terrible tragedy will cause pain for so many, many people. My thoughts are with you. :grouphug:

[Rhiannon12866]

45. This was a senior citizens' group from Trenton, Michigan,

according to our local (Albany, NY) news. Obviously, this is big news around here and everyone's lead story. They said that this is a blue-collar town just south of Detroit and the group calls itself "The Trenton Travelers." Apparently, Lake George was just one of the stops on their trip. I just tuned in to get the latest at 11pm. I live about 15 minutes south of Lake George and have ridden on these boats, often, in my life, but never on the smaller one which sank today.;(

[Historic NY]

47. To Trenton Michigan & the survivors.....

my sympathies & prayers are with you & yours.

[Rhiannon12866]

48. The latest on this tragic accident from local (Albany, NY) news reports

that 21 people were killed and 28 injured, which must account for most everyone on the boat, since the capacity was only 50. They're saying that this was a senior citizens' group from Trenton, Michigan, many quite elderly. And they're now calling this a "fluke" accident, in which all the conditions were just right for this tragedy to happen. At first they were saying that this was caused by the passengers suddenly moving to one side of the boat and then that it was caught in the wake of a much larger tour boat. Apparently, both may have been true, a deadly combination of factors.;(

The boat that they're speculating may have caused the wake is the Mohican, a much larger boat from a rival tour boat company, The Lake George Steam Boat Company, which has even larger vessels than the Mohican, a boat which has been on the lake since 1907. Though those interviewed on the news said that the competing tour companies were friendly. The Ethan Allen, operated by Shoreline Cruises (some articles are calling them sister ships, which isn't true), the one which sank today, is only 40-feet, while the Mohican is 93-feet, with three decks and a much larger capacity, though they don't say exactly how many on their site.:shrug:

This is a local story for me, since I live only 15 minutes south of Lake George and have ridden on these boats often, though never the Ethan Allen. As a child, I lived on the north end of the lake and used to watch the Mohican turn around daily, from my window, all summer. This is obviously big news here and this is the lead story for all the local TV channels.:-(

You've seen pix of the 40-foot Ethan Allen. Here's the much larger (93-foot) Mohican:



And the latest link to our local (Glens Falls, NY) newspaper story on this:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BOAT_OVERTURNED?SITE=NYGLE&SECTION=HOME

[Cooley Hurd]

51. Thank you for the add'l info, Rhiannon...

The wake from the Mohican, because of it's slow speed and wide beam, must kick up a pretty powerful wake. However, the Ethan Allen, at 40' in length, should not have had issue with the wake. I wonder what will come out in the NTSB report as to mitigating factors in the tragedy.

BTW - I'm still in shock about the CNN anchor's question to local authorities - "Is this an unusual occurrence for Lake George?":eyes:

On edit: For reference, here's an aerial view of the wreck site:


On edit #2: From http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=404936&category=REGIONOTHER&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=10/3/2005&TextPage=3

<snip>
Bill Huus, a long-retired former captain of the Ethan Allen, said the boat would sometimes list to its side when it was fully loaded with its 50-passenger capacity. "Everything they did is legal," Huus said. "When you put 50 people on board, it's overloaded in my estimation."
</snip>

Hmmm...

[Rhiannon12866]

55. Thank you, my friend, for such an incredibly informative post.

You sure are the man, when it comes to maps... I used to live at the north end of the lake, so had no frame of reference, but this helps a lot.:hi:

And I agree about the Mohican. This boat has been on the lake since 1907, if you saw my previous post, with no incidents. Something went very wrong here, especially since the weather was perfect. And I heard interviews with both the owner of the Steamboat Company, who got very defensive when the issue of the wake was raised, said the Mohican was two miles away, and also heard the interview with the former Ethan Allen captain, quoted in the TU. He was under the impression that the seats on the boat were still bolted down and said that 48 passengers, even though this was still under the max capacity of 50, was, in his opinion, overloaded. What seems to have happened was that the movable chairs slid to one side of the boat when it turned, and hitting the wake put it off balance, a "fluke" combination of factors, which caused this tragedy, as they said on Channel 10.;(

And I know that life jackets aren't required in NY State, but wouldn't you consider this, when confronted with a boatload of very elderly people in wheelchairs and with canes? My friend asked me this and I told her that I sure would have. What has gotten them in trouble, their license suspended, was the lack of a second crew member on the boat, which was required. The captain was obviously busy driving the boat. A second person would surely have realized what a frail group of passengers that they were carrying.:-(

As for the comments of the CNN reporter, I was watching this with a friend, and we just had to laugh, the only amusing thing to come out of all this. "Is this an unusual occurrence for Lake George?" Oh, no, boatloads of tourists sink everyday...:eyes:

[Rhiannon12866]

53. Additional update on this: they've suspended the license of the company

that owns the Ethan Allen, Shoreline Cruises, pending an investigation into this. It's a serious enough incident, unprecedented really, that I doubt they'll recover. And it's really too bad, since, IMHO, taking one of these boat trips is one of the best things to do in Lake George.:shrug:

And it also means that I'll never get to ride on the Horicon, a wooden antique yacht which is one of the larger boats run by Shoreline Cruises. I've always wanted to, but had yet to get the chance.:-(

[Rhiannon12866]

56. CNN just sent this announcement as breaking news.

It's totally amazing how quickly this became a national story.

Cruise operator shut down after deadly accident

Gov. Pataki: 'A tragedy of immense proportions'

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 Posted: 0301 GMT (1101 HKT)

LAKE GEORGE, NEW YORK (CNN) -- A tour boat that sank to the bottom of New York's Lake George Sunday, killing 20 elderly passengers, did not have enough crew on board, authorities said Monday.

Shoreline Cruises, which owns the Ethan Allen, was effectively shut down by state authorities investigating the accident.

The operator's licenses have been suspended pending the investigation, said Wendy Gibson, a spokeswoman for the New York Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation Department. (See video on probe seeking answers -- 3:09)

State regulations required the excursion boat, which carried 47 passengers, to carry a crew of two. But local authorities said only one crew member -- Capt. Richard Paris -- was aboard when the boat capsized and sank.

Shoreline Cruises operates four other boats on Lake George; the vessels can hold from 30 to 400 passengers.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/10/03/boat.overturned/index.html