WP: Role of Rove, Libby in CIA Leak Case Clearer (Conspiracy)

[UpInArms]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/01/AR2005100101317.html

As the CIA leak investigation heads toward its expected conclusion this month, it has become increasingly clear that two of the most powerful men in the Bush administration were more involved in the unmasking of operative Valerie Plame than the White House originally indicated.

<snip>

Many lawyers in the case have been skeptical that Fitzgerald has the evidence to prove a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which is the complicated crime he first set out to investigate, and which requires showing that government officials knew an operative had covert status and intentionally leaked the operative's identity.

But a new theory about Fitzgerald's aim has emerged in recent weeks from two lawyers who have had extensive conversations with the prosecutor while representing witnesses in the case. They surmise that Fitzgerald is considering whether he can bring charges of a criminal conspiracy perpetrated by a group of senior Bush administration officials. Under this legal tactic, Fitzgerald would attempt to establish that at least two or more officials agreed to take affirmative steps to discredit and retaliate against Wilson and leak sensitive government information about his wife. To prove a criminal conspiracy, the actions need not have been criminal, but conspirators must have had a criminal purpose.

Lawyers involved in the case interviewed for this report agreed to talk only if their names were not used, citing Fitzgerald's request for secrecy.

<snip>

Conspiracy cases are viewed by criminal prosecutors as simpler to bring than more straightforward criminal charges, but also trickier to sell to juries. "That would arguably be a close call for a prosecutor, but it could be tried," a veteran Washington criminal attorney with longtime experience in national security cases said yesterday.

...more...

[H2O Man]

1. Take note.

And count on this. Nominated.

[Greeby]

2. At this point, its worth the risk

The amount of time a indictment, arraignment and trial would take, would be enough time for Bush to self-destruct in full public view without the aid of Turd Blossom

[Alizaryn]

3. Any way you look at it

I can't see how this is not a breach of something more then ethics:

"By July 12, however, both Rove and Libby and perhaps other senior White House officials knew about Wilson's wife's position at the CIA and, according to lawyers familiar with testimony in the probe, used that information with reporters to undermine the significance of Wilson's trip."

[nolabels]

41. Doing jail time for conspiracy is way beyond ethics

and with all these fellas running around * doing all these things to cover it up it will get pretty shaky on how * was not in the loop once any kind of trial gets started on the matter

[uncle ray]

63. that's when you see the genius of their plan

to play * off as an unknowing idiot. poor shrubbie, too stupid to realize everyobdy around him is corrupt.

[seemslikeadream]

4. criminal conspiracy perpetrated by a group of senior Bush administration

OFFICIALS

[grytpype]

5. Yep... just what I was hoping for.

But who are the conspirators? First place to look is the White House Iraq Group, formed to sell the war to the American people by any means necessary. Its members:

* Karl Rove
* Karen Hughes
* Mary Matalin
* James R. Wilkinson
* Nicholas E. Calio
* Condoleezza Rice
* Stephen Hadley
* I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby

If they all agreed to smear Wilson by leaking Plame's name, and that was a crime, and some of their compatriots (Rove, Libby) committed overt acts (the leaks), then they are ALL LIABLE FOR THE CRIME AS IF THEY HAD COMMITED IT THEMSELVES!

RICE! RICE COULD BE INDICTED!

[aquart]

8. Her Ferragamos will look marvelous on the witness stand.

[femrap]

10. good one....gave me a nice chuckle

But I think those Ferragamos would look nicer behind bars, don't you?

[Gronk Groks]

12. He only has enough ammunition to take out...

...Rove and Libby. The others may be guilty and added on later if the can turn either Rove or Libby, but don't hold your breath.

I was actually hoping for a charge of Treason. Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. I'm betting Bolton was involved too and may have been a conduit for

the CIA info via his aide Fleitz. See this thread and the articles posted in the replies:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4932994
thread title: Here are two reasons why I believe JUDITH MILLER WILL NOT GIVE THE TRUTH:

Bolton had motivation and opportunity.

By the way, I've always believed that the primary goal in all of this was NOT to just lash out at Joseph Wilson but to destroy the ability of Plame's cover organization, which was an important, established group dedicated to gathering REAL intelligence on the MidEast WMDs. Bolton was in the thick of this field and clearly wanted to substitute only the "intelligence" that fit his desire for invasion of Iraq. Don't miss the Sy Hersh article in that thread. And according to the Washington Note, Bolton was a regular source for Miller...

The Plame leak case is closely connected to the Niger yellowcake forgery case. I hope Fitz is able to bring them together or at least open the way for a later investigation to do so.

[gordianot]

18. If those in your list have to go and Bush stays....................

There would be a certain amount of poetic justice. Maybe Poppy Bush would hire his good bud Bill Clinton to get junior out of this mess. Poppy has come through for junior his entire life with a solution when junior has screwed up.

I suspect those who bankroll Government are getting real nervous about the competence of the current managers they hired in 2000 and 2004.

[NVMojo]

29. Don't forget the reason for the smear! IRAQ/ WMD!!!!!

too bad he can't tie this whole thing into the Downing Street Memo!

[leesa]

49. Yes, financing the sale of WMDs world-wide...the Bush Crime Syndicates

specialty. THIS is what I want to get after. WHY did they need to bring Plame down? What was she on too? Maybe we can even get Poppy and the rest of the Carlisle Group.

[LizW]

39. BINGO!

I would love to see the whole WHIG indicted, plus Card and Cheney. I believe the Plame leak is only one of the crimes committed. It was done to distance Cheney from other, even more serious, crimes.

[understandinglife]

6. He doesn't need 'conspiracy' -- all these folk signed SF312 and ...

.... they are all going to be held accountable, accordingly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4130407

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4268355

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4263356

And, as I noted on August 11, 2005 - Rove, Libby, and all the WHIGers (and others, including Bolton) got some really bad news that day:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4319705

They are all traitors; their actions are treasonous to the first order.

Period.


Peace.

[texpatriot2004]

20. What does that mean that they all "signed SF 312" ?

Thank you Understandinglife for this great info from weeks ago.

[understandinglife]

23. For starters....

... SF-312 is also known as the "Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement," which White House officials with national security clearances have to sign.

You can read more about SF-312 in this fact sheet PDF from Rep. Henry Waxman:

http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/Documents/20050715140232-17725.pdf

If you look at the other links I've provided, you will find extensive information about SF312 and it's implications for not just Rove, but Bush and every member of his administration.

Congressman Waxman has been on top of this issue from the get-go.

Also, the indictment of Franklin and two co-conspirators on May 26, 2005 was really bad news for the entire Bush neoconster gang. It is important to review U.S.C. § 793(d) & (g) in the context of having signed an SF312 -- as I reviewed in this DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4319705

These folk make Nixon's 'plumbers' look like kids stealing hubcaps.


Peace.

[texpatriot2004]

26. Thanks. I printed the pages you referenced earlier so that I

could review them. I am not familiar with this info so I appreciate your reply. BTW I love that "neoconster gang" phrase, mind if I use it sometime?

[understandinglife]

40. I am enjoying watching the term 'neoconster' spread .... please use it ...

....as much as you like ... I combine it with "regime," "gang," "hoodlum(s)," "thugs," "war criminals," and my favorite is "Bush and his neoconster fellow war criminals" .....


Peace.

[lonestarnot]

56. NEOCONSTER! YEAH! Next sign!

Here lies gw bush
PDA gave him a push
DU kicked him in the tush

Worst selected pres of the land;
Buried in the Bagdad sand!
World's greatest disaster;
He thought he was Mrs. Aster!


www.freewayblogger.com

[understandinglife]

72. Do It!!! And, neat little poem ...

:hi:


Peace.

[DoYouEverWonder]

68. Here's the picture to go with your story

Rove and Libby are co-conspirators but they were acting under the direction of the President and the VP. The scheme was hatched on this trip by the people pictured above.

[understandinglife]

71. Good one. And, yes indeed, the fateful journey to Africa ....

... and it was about way more than just getting even. The WHIGers, Bolton, Cheney, Bush ..... they tried to staunch the reality of their WMD deception, and not only did they fail, they committed major crimes as part of their failed cover-up.

One can only imagine all the chats James Carville has been having with his wife these past two years .... :evilgrin:

Peace.

[understandinglife]

24. dupe

Peace.

[daleo]

7. Would this make Bush an un-indicted co-conspirator?

"At a White House press conference today, the president and un-indicted co-conspirator said..."

[Straight Shooter]

9. With the indictment of DeLay, it makes this scenario more plausible.

One must not only avoid impropriety, but also the appearance of impropriety. I think the American public can only live in a state of denial for so long before it begins to dawn on them that they have been duped by the masters of corruption.

Fitzgerald is absolutely untouchable. They can try to swiftboat him. It won't work. bushco has already far overplayed its hand with that tactic. Let them scream like banshees. The damage is being done.

[Tatiana]

11. We'll get indictments. But I have a feeling this may go to the SCourt n/t

[Gronk Groks]

14. True but the damage this will cause for '06 & '08...

...should be massive for the Republican Party. Even if they don't lose the House and Senate in '06, it should rattle them enough to make them seriously consider dumping the chimp and company.

I hope....

[HereSince1628]

34. Are you thinking the SC will involves itself before or after a trial?

More likely if we get indictments, we'll get redux of what led to Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre...attempts to fire the prosecutor.

[MissWaverly]

52. would it go to the Supreme Court

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present... - if he was indicted, wouldn't he
be impeached which according to the Constitution would throw it into
the Senate????

[Tatiana]

59. I think after the indictments and after convictions are handed down.

Cheney and his cronies will appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will decide to take the case.

Hopefully we won't have another Bush v Gore.

[Dulcinea]

35. No wonder they wanted Roberts so badly.

He'll make sure everyone involved emerges unscathed.

[jazzjunkysue]

64. He's only 50? That's a good 30+ years to live with a lousy decision

like that. Not sure this guy is willing to dispose of his stellar career in his first month. They can't hurt him now: He's on for life, and they can't revoke him.

[bearfan454]

78. That is exactly right.

He won't fuck his boss.

[lovuian]

13. Perjury Conspiracy and Obstruction of Justice and Treason

just a few charges that start adding up!!!

[usregimechange]

15. kick

[texpatriot2004]

17. Is it possible that Libby and Rove committed perjury?

I am not certain that they have testified on this matter but it seems that they have misled people about what they knew and when they knew it. Furthermore, their motives appear to be questionable and self-motivated (as in preserve the regime).

I wonder, you know, all this insistence that they knew nothing while they gathered information. Could it be that they didn't tell the whole truth previously?

Also, it seems like Cheney is NOT off the hook in this situation.

[Guaranteed]

19. Ohhhh damn. Holy Bejesus.

Freepers: best make sure you're taking your meds. Because things are about to get a whole lot worse for ya. :)

[WCGreen]

21. One word...... RICO.......

[TacticalPeek]

22. Semi-tough.

Many lawyers in the case

...


from two lawyers who have had extensive conversations with the prosecutor while representing witnesses in the case

...


Lawyers involved in the case

...

One source briefed on Miller's account

...

Other lawyers in the case surmise

...

According to former senior CIA officials

...

according to lawyers familiar with testimony in the probe



Etc.

If this is what their spin is to put a good face on it, then there must be a large number of indictments coming, including some Big Enchiladas.



:evilgrin:

[understandinglife]

25. Roger that ...

:evilgrin:


Peace.

[Writer]

27. I hate that this information has been released now.

Before Fitz can take care of business. One never should show his/her cards to these crooks.

[freeplessinseattle]

33. oh come on, like bushco doesn't have sources, too? n/t

[kitty1]

70. Fitz should have serious security cover at all times now n/t

[Freedomfried]

28. But the biggest point, they DELIBERATELY LIED AMERICA INTO A WAR

keep the big picture in focus.

[Carla in Ca]

30. YES!

Now that is THE important thing we must not forget. And that's where * comes in, right? Can it be proved that he knew he was telling lies to us in that state of the union address?
Also, did Bolton testify?

[lonestarnot]

53. Absofuckinglutely!

[truthisfreedom]

31. could it be... Culture of Corruption? or is it Culture of Conspiracy in

this case?

[missouri dem 2]

32. This is the key:

"Conspiracy cases are viewed by criminal prosecutors as simpler to bring than more straightforward criminal charges, but also trickier to sell to juries. "That would arguably be a close call for a prosecutor, but it could be tried," a veteran Washington criminal attorney with longtime experience in national security cases said yesterday."

Not hard to sell to a jury if one or more of the conspirators cops a plea. Mary Matlin Carvelle comes to mind. Judith Miller could also be indited as part of the conspiracy.

[zippy890]

36. criminal conspiracy - did Nixon in

my prediction - Bush & Cheney will not serve out their term.

[stubtoe]

77. *smile* *smile* *smile*

[Orsino]

37. Nominated. n/t

[NashVegas]

38. By the Time Fitz Gets Around to Indicting

Congress will have repealed the law.

[No Exit]

50. I understand and share your cynicism about this congress, but

fortunately, the applicable law would be the law as it existed at the time of the offense.

[Old and In the Way]

42. Role of Rove, Libby in CIA Leak Case Clearer

washingtonpost.com
Role of Rove, Libby in CIA Leak Case Clearer
Bush and Cheney Aides' Testimony Contradicts Earlier White House Statement

By Jim VandeHei and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, October 2, 2005; A05

As the CIA leak investigation heads toward its expected conclusion this month, it has become increasingly clear that two of the most powerful men in the Bush administration were more involved in the unmasking of operative Valerie Plame than the White House originally indicated.

With New York Times reporter Judith Miller's release from jail Thursday and testimony Friday before a federal grand jury, the role of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, came into clearer focus. Libby, a central figure in the probe since its earliest days and the vice president's main counselor, discussed Plame with at least two reporters but testified that he never mentioned her name or her covert status at the CIA, according to lawyers in the case.

His story is similar to that of Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser. Rove, who was not an initial focus of the investigation, testified that he, too, talked with two reporters about Plame but never supplied her name or CIA role.

Their testimony seems to contradict what the White House was saying a few months after Plame's CIA job became public.

<snip>

more here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/01/AR2005100101317_pf.html

[BlueEyedSon]

43. Will someone please say it's clear that is was an act of revenge???

[Jackpine Radical]

46. I don't think it was (purely) revenge. Nor was it (purely) about Wilson.

They needed to take out Plame, who in her official capacity with the CIA, was digging up too much about WMD, their sources, etc. Dig far enough & you find the Halliburton of the 1990's down that particular rabbit-hole. Cheney needed her gone to maintain the coverup on what he had done in various places, including Iran.

[rfranklin]

44. Will someone clearly state it was "an act of treason?"

These guys are guilty, guilty, guilty.

[PurgedVoter]

45. Will someone please say it's clear that this was an act of a sociopath???

For a tiny and moot political gain, more vengeful than effective. They outed an operative that was positioned to and working for the reduction of nuclear risk world wide. To impede such a person is an act that I can hardly fathom an intelligent being making. To support or cover up such an act is again hard to conceive.


Edited to fix a huge grammar error!

[snippy]

47. I think Judge Tatel's reference to "the plot against Wilson" indicated

that Fitzgerald has been considering charges of conspiracy in this case for quite a while. Such charges also would be consistent with Judge Hogan's statement that Fitzgerald's "focus has shifted as (he) has acquired additional information during the course of the investigation. Special Counsel now needs to pursue different avenues in order to complete its investigation."

Of course there are other scenarios which also would be consistent with the Judges' written opinions in this case, but a "plot against Wilson" sure sounds like a conspiracy to me. And since this case involves White House lies about the invasion of Iraq, it is a near certainty that the WHIG was involved given that one of the two primary responsibilties of the WHIG was to develop and disseminate lies to justify the invasion. And both Rove and Libby were members of the WHIG.

[lonestarnot]

55. Indict, impeach, imprison!

<>

Waiting and watching! Come on Fitzie!

[Delphinus]

48. I think this guy is way wrong:

"Other lawyers in the case surmise Fitzgerald does not have evidence of any crime at all and put Miller in jail simply to get her testimony and finalize the investigation. "Even assuming . . . that somebody decided to answer back a critic, that is politics, not criminal behavior," said one lawyer in the case. This lawyer said the most benign outcome would be Fitzgerald announcing that he completed a thorough investigation, concluded no crime was committed and would not issue a report.

This is NOT JUST POLITICS. This IS criminal behavior.

[Beetwasher]

51. Let's Play A Game!!! Can YOU Spot ROVE'S Lawyer's Statements???

"Other lawyers in the case surmise Fitzgerald does not have evidence of any crime at all and put Miller in jail simply to get her testimony and finalize the investigation. "Even assuming . . . that somebody decided to answer back a critic, that is politics, not criminal behavior," said one lawyer in the case. This lawyer said the most benign outcome would be Fitzgerald announcing that he completed a thorough investigation, concluded no crime was committed and would not issue a report."

LOL! Not too obvious, eh?

[sattahipdeep]

62. Probably make it public?

If Fitzgerald does not seek criminal charges, it will not end the
matter. By law, he will write a comprehensive report of his
findings and submit it to the Justice Department, which probably
would make it public. :shrug:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5315152,00.html

[symbolman]

54. I'm putting the finishing touches on my film "Rove's War"

I'm putting the finishing touches on my film "Rove's War"
right now, expect to ship in a few days, and I've spent many months researching for this, it weighs in as a 2 DVD set at 150 minutes of definitive info on the entire Plame case, A complete Chronology, forged documents, the meeting in Dec of 2001 with Leeder, and Italian SISME (CIA) leaders, forgers, etc - Suskind's info that Bush was pushing for war way way back in 1999, Bolton and Rummy's ROGUE Intel, all mixed down with the Downing Street Minutes, Ex CIA Hearings, etc, etc..

THis is RED MEAT for political junkies and it's all there, plus some hilarious additions of graphics, cartoons, Jon Stewart grilling folks, etc to keep it fun at the same time - anyone that's seen my flash work, imagine my best flash amplified about 100 times and you'll see what I've got coming out of the DVD burner in a few days.

Some here donated a long time ago (and I apologise for being REALLY sick for a good month) but this is for you, and it's rolling out to the mailroom very soon - even wrote and performed a satirical song (which I think I'm going to release at the same time on the web, maybe send it to Al Franken, my pal Mike Malloy would probably play it, maybe Randi too) called "Secret Agent Plame" based on the old classic "Secret Agent Man" for the credits..

Once I've shipped to everyone I promised this film to, I'm going to hit up Skinner and see if I can use it to fund raise here..

I can't stop watching it and I should be bored as hell with it after editing and researching for months on end, going through hundreds of hours of film - it's my best..

Just getting the word out, that it'll be available at Takebackthemedia.com after I make my customers happy Look for it should I get the nod from Skinner (who will of course receive a Comp Copy for keeping us all sane :) )

Get out your popcorn and fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride - these guys are like tapeworms, they'll insist on practically killing the HOST to get rid of them..

[WinkyDink]

57. And guess who might have sung?

What big name media/political personage has been totally absent in these days of Bush's waning poll numbers?

Mary Matalin.

[davsand]

58. I'm betting Rove and Scooter both have a pardon tucked in a safe someplace

I honestly think that it is no small coincidence that judith Miller was turned out of jail this week--AFTER much was made of all the pardons the asswipe had signed a few days before.

The asswipe's approval ratings are already in the dumpster. They know they are getting to the "short strokes" (where it is rapidly gonna come to a conclusion) and they figured that the smartest thing to do was to put Scooter on the cross for a couple of weeks.

I'm betting Scooter is willing to take the body hits for the team, because he knows there will never have to be any time served for his misdeeds, or long term fallout for him (Hell, look at Liddy--he got convicted and served TIME, and he's still the darling of the conservative set!)

Scooter was in a position of "strength" because if they DIDN'T give him a pardon, he could tell what he knows and screw every one of them in a really big way. He also in in a position, with that pardon, that he can pretty much write his own ticket in the future with EVERY one of the guys involved in this.

Rove, OTOH, is still holding all the cards FOR the chimp, and I expect that he's had a Presidential Pardon signed as a matter of course since day two of the regime...

Just my thinking on all this.


Laura

[jazzjunkysue]

65. But letting the perps walk will still anger voters in 06 and 08, even

more than if they pull a martha.

Most americans know politicians are crooks, and letting the cronies have all the jobs, screw everything up and then walk will get the dems lots of votes, and that's what really matters.

I don't need these fleas behind bars, just out of office.

[kostya]

60. Isn't Fitz a Republican, appointed by Republicans?

I understand that he has a hard-ass reputation, but has he ever investigated political crimes before? Yes, I realize at the core that this isn't political, but that's how it will be spun. - K

[davsand]

66. Fitz took apart the Illinois Governor's corruption bit by bIt.

He's a patient and thorough man. He does not move quickly, but he moves steadily and logically to the point that he nails the ones that need to get nailed. If you doubt it, start following the trial here in Illinois of former GOP Governor George Ryan. Fitz got to this point with step by step indictments of the lower ups.

A short answer is, YES. Fitz the prosecutor knows what he's doing and he's good at it.



Laura

[The HL]

61. New Political Comic at The Hollywood Liberal

Hey,
Check out the new Political Comic at The Hollywood Liberal

Tom Delay Meets His True Friends

http://www.thehollywoodliberal.com

If you like it there are lots more at

http://www.thehollywoodliberal.com/comic_feature_links.htm

Thank You

[lateo]

67. Is Bush involved in the conspiracy as well?

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/02/bush-directly-involved

[DoYouEverWonder]

69. I was probably his idea

or at the least he approved of the scheme.

[lateo]

73. I have something we can call this... TRIFECTA!

[StefanX]

74. Rove/Plame, Perjury, 2nd set of Yellowcake docs, WHIG, DSM & Impeachment

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4017050

[kitty1]

75. Let's not forget Doulgas Feith and his OSP involvement....

behind the scenes. The Office of Special Plans set up in the Near East desk of the Pentagon was prominent in creating a case for WMD's in Iraq and tying Al Quaida to 911. Ariel Sharon, as well as other key members of the White House Iraq group were instrumental in behind the scenes manouvering in all of this. The Senate Committee was was also investigating Feith for Iraq War Intel fabrication. There's a lot of big dots in this whole puzzle.

[althecat]

76. Looks like Leopold was right when he wrote this then....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00227.htm
Report Shows Rove May Have Lied to FBI, A Felony
Friday, 15 July 2005, 3:24 pm
Opinion: Jason Leopold

Report Shows Karl Rove May Have Lied to Federal Agents, a Federal Crime, During Oct 2003 Testimony Into CIA Agent Leak

Once again the Washpost gets scooped...

[progressivebydesign]

79. I'm hearing the faint pitter patter of frogs marching... n/t

[texpatriot2004]

80. I hear it too. n/t