Orange Revolution in turmoil (Another Bush success story)

[NNN0LHI]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4226814.stm

For days now, there has been intense speculation that Ukraine's President, Viktor Yushchenko, would reshuffle his government.

Very few observers expected him to dismiss it in its entirety, despite increasingly bitter in-fighting and a power-struggle that's stymied the normal business of governing.

Mr Yushchenko is faced with a task considerably tougher than just putting together a new government. He needs to reinvigorate the whole Orange Revolution project, and the people charged with making it a reality.

It is hard to imagine that, in eight months, the agenda has gone from joining the EU to the whole government falling because of internal rivalries.

I bet Putin is :rofl:

[jmc777]

1. Yulia Tymoshenko....mmMMmmm

Not bad for a 40-something.:loveya:

[Mairead]

2. It's not hard for me to believe

The Ukrainian people got behind a sort of Clinton-workalike as being much the lesser evil. Now they're finding out the hard way that the lesser evil is still evil.

[DrGrishka]

3. Nothing unusual

Italy has had around 60 governments since WWII. That's roughly 1 per year. Yushenko is still better then Yanukovich. he may not be Ukraine's George Washington, but he is better then the alternative. And I am saying this as someone who lived there and emigrated from there.

[WhiteTara]

5. I hope you are right and welcome to DU

DrGriska. :hi:

[MisterP]

4. what will the NED do now?

Somoza (support) or Noriega/Diem (support, then take out)?
Maybe UNO can hit more people, that might help.

[goforit]

6. Yes...Putin is rolling in hay!

[bemildred]

7. Pooty-Poot is looking forward to the re-alignment of Ukraine with Russia.

I dunno that that is a good thing, but it's what's going to happen.

[daleo]

8. People in the Ukraine may have lost some faith in the U.S.

The idea that the U.S. military will ride to their rescue in the event of problems with Russia seems distinctly unlikely now, since the U.S. military couldn't ride to the rescue of New Orleans effectively.

[DrGrishka]

9. Aint gonna happen

Ukraine is not going to re-align with Russia. Russia is setting itself up on an essentially isolationist course with the suppression of civil liberties, jailing of dissidents and the support of dictators like Belarus' Lukashenko. Despite their internal disagreements all of Ukrainian governing forces want to join NATO and EU. (That too isn't happening any time soon, but that's not the point). The best way to kill the hopes of joining these institutions would be to cozy up to Russia. So, not going to happen. And it's a good thing.

[bemildred]

11. Isolationist? Are you on drugs?

Russia has it's issues, and I don't like Pooty-Poot all
that much (Chechnya), but it sure as hell is not isolationist.

[DrGrishka]

13. Isolationist in a sense

that it does not at all want to accept world-wide standards for democracy, rule of law, free enterprise, entry and exit from the country, press freedoms, etc., etc., etc. Russia adamantly refuses to adopt these standards, and refuses entry visas or journalism accreditation to those who criticize the government (or jails local critics). That's isolationist. (Though in a different sense they are attempting to be imperialist by attempting to expand their zone of influence on their neighbors whetehr those neighbors want it or not).

[bemildred]

14. That's just normal pseudo-democratic government.

We have much the same shit here in the USA, and we lie about it too.

Pooty-Poot is just your basic power-hungry, nationalist political hack.
Yeltsin was worse, and he was a Western stooge in addition. I don't
know what the answer is, but Ukraine has to live with Russia, and the
USA is in no position to instruct either of those two nations on what
to do next.

You seem to have an interest in this. What do you think of the recent
blather about Putin not trying to arrange to run for a third term?

[DrGrishka]

21. I doubt Putin will leave

he may leave "formally," but I imagine either of 2 things happening.

1) he will no longer be President but be appointed Prime Minister with the necessary constitutional changes to make PM the "real" power (as opposed to now the Prez being that power).

2) He will install a weak crony and attempt to pull strings from the background.

As for comparing Russia and US, you cannot be serious. I lived in teh former USSR and visited couple of times since, so I have a keen appreciation of the vast differences between freedoms here and there. Sure, US is not perfect, but for instance

a) If I want to leave tomorrow, I can with no problems. In Russia I have to get permission to leave, which is now given more readily than before but still

b) If I want to move in with my gf (or brother or aunt) say in SF (or NY or Chicago or DC), I can pack up and go. If a Russian wants to move in to Moscow (or St. Pete or any other city) he must register with the police. The police can deny registration. And this is despite the fact that Russian Constitutional Court has ruled that such practices are unconstitutional.

c) If I want to go and protest Presidential politics in from of the WH, I can. (Sure I can't go on the lawn, but in Lafayette Park, or on the sidewalk in front of the law, no problems). In Russia, I cannot protest in the Red Square (and getting permits to do it anywhere else is exceedingly difficult).

I could go on and on.

[bemildred]

23. Thank you, you seem to have a hit with option #1.

I am not comparing the US with the USSR, so I will not refute
your points, which are good ones. I would agree there is no
comparison.

But you are wrong if you think the government here is not corrupt,
or that there are not political factions here that find the
notion of arbitrary and totalitarian power attractive. The fact
that that has not been achieved here yet does not mean that there
are no political forces here that would like to do that.

[bemildred]

12. Just to be clear:

What sort of political alliances Ukraine winds up with remains
to be seen, but geography and history do suggest that it's going
to be hard to ignore Russia, and I don't believe even the current
government wants to pick a fight with Russia, now or later. They
have many cultural and economic ties going back a long time.

[TankLV]

18. Yes it will be hard to ignore the people and nation that colonized you

and shit on you for centuries.

That is certain.

[bemildred]

19. Yeah. Like Mexico say. nt

[malaise]

10. ROTFL

this is too funny. He fired all of them today.:rofl: :rofl:

[daleo]

16. He will want to be extra careful about being around agent orange

His condition may be set to flare up.

[gulfcoastliberal]

15. Aren't Yushenko and his wife Neo-Cons?

Thought I read that somewhere during the Rovian-inspired "Orange Revolution". Seems like they also tossed out aan elected leader - who was elected more than once. Has PNAC prints all over it, right down to the fact they can't get jack shit done - except turn everything they touch into SNAFUs.

[Judi Lynn]

17. I looked it up, as I had heard this, too.

Yushchenko’s ties to the U.S. are close to home. His wife, Ekaterina (Katherine) Chumchenko, is a U.S. citizen, a long-time committed conservative activist, who was employed at the Reagan State Department and the Bush Sr. White House.
(snip)

http://www.vermontguardian.com/global/0904/Ukraine1224.shtml

[TankLV]

20. It's a whole lot more complicate than that.

That source isn't exactly credible.

The anti Yushenko forces have been playing this bullshit for a long time now.

It's kinda like Kerry and bush* and the anybodybutbush* vote last year.

Not exactly the choice of who you really WANT as opposed to shucking off the yoke of your colonizers and oppressors by siding with a less than perfect person. But that person was still light years away from the status quo.

Now maybe they can move further FORWARD and perfect their independence further.

You can't blame them for throwing off the yoke of colonialism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. BBC: Ukrainian ex-PM slams dismissal

Ukraine's sacked Prime Minister, Yulia Tymoshenko, has bitterly attacked the dismissal of her government.

She blamed aides to President Viktor Yushchenko for the "deeply unjust" move on Thursday, saying they had schemed against her.
...
"I will not go to the elections with those people who have discredited Ukraine so much. I do not mean the president, but his closest circle," she said.

However, she criticised Mr Yushchenko, saying he had "practically ruined our unity, our future, the future of the country," and added: "I think this step is absolutely illogical."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4231414.stm

[NNN0LHI]

24. Ukraine to improve ties with Russia

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/10/content_3470323.htm

KIEV, Sept. 9 (Xinhuanet) -- Ukraine's acting Prime Minister Yury Yekhanurov said Friday he will work hard to improve Ukraine-Russiaties, especially bilateral relations within the framework of the Common Economic Space (CES) program.

President Viktor Yushchenko stressed the importance of Ukraine-Russia relations in his meeting with leaders of parties in the parliament on Friday, and asked the government to enhance relations with Russia, said Yekhanurov.

The government will make every effort to forge serious relations between the two countries, and the building of such relations will be one of the basic policies of the new government,he added.