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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 08:01 AM
Original message
Bombs Found in Home of Murdered Gun Dealer
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 08:11 AM by DUreader
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3258457,00.html



SANFORD, Fla. (AP) - Police investigating the
slaying of a firearms dealer found hundreds of
military weapons and live bombs inside his house,
prompting the evacuation of several homes.

Scott Quinn, 37, was found dead by his girlfriend
about 4:30 a.m. Sunday in his home in this small
central Florida city. Investigators said Quinn was
murdered but did not release details.

Police found the stockpile of weapons, including
live bombs, neatly stacked in the bedroom.
Several of the more dangerous pieces were taken
to a landfill to be detonated.

About 10 homes remained evacuated Monday
because of fears the bombs might explode, and
Army weapons experts were being brought in to
analyze the weapons and explosives, police Lt.
Ron Daugherty said.
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's a mad, mad world...
Scary stuff.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's a poorly worded headline
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 08:10 AM by MaineDem
The guns were murdered? (sorry, grammar nerd-mode kicked in)
:)

And, yes, the story is scary indeed.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. My fault, fixed headline
thanks
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ablbodyed Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
3.  A GUN DEALER MURDERED....
in his own HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nra: you need guns to protect your home. What comeuppence!!!!!!!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. You think the man deserved to be murdered?
What comeuppence!!!!!!!

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Actually...
I think he means that it is a comeuppance for the NRA idea that guns protect people. If a gun dealer with a huge stash of firearms and explosives can be murdered in his own home, then your average Joe is not really that much safer by being armed.

Besides, this guy was obviously a major criminal. He had explosives in his house, and it sounds like he was stockpiling illegal weapons for sale. How many people have died because of guns this guy sold?

Did he "deserve" to be murdered? Maybe not, but he sure as hell wasn't an innocent.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nobody ever said guns radiate a protective force-field
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 10:23 AM by slackmaster
So you believe the fact that he was murdered is some kind of symbolic slap in the face to an organization that you don't even know the victim belonged to.

Besides, this guy was obviously a major criminal. He had explosives in his house, and it sounds like he was stockpiling illegal weapons for sale. How many people have died because of guns this guy sold?

The Guardian article stated that he was licensed to manufacture and possess weapons (though it was not specific as to what kinds), and I noticed that it did not state that any of the weapons were illegal for him to possess. It's possible that he was licensed to manufacture and possess all of them.

Did he "deserve" to be murdered? Maybe not, but he sure as hell wasn't an innocent.

That is your personal opinion, with no facts to back it up.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Are there many gun dealers licensed...
to keep high explosives in the bedroom of a house in a residential area? Or are you overlooking this fact in your zealous attempt to defend gun rights?

I support gun rights! I only pointed out that the other poster was not saying the dealer deserved to be murdered but that guns do not confer safety, just as you yourself said above!

Anyway, back to the article:

Police found the stockpile of weapons, including live bombs, neatly stacked in the bedroom. Several of the more dangerous pieces were taken to a landfill to be detonated.

About 10 homes remained evacuated Monday because of fears the bombs might explode, and Army weapons experts were being brought in to analyze the weapons and explosives, police Lt. Ron Daugherty said.

There were probably more than 400 pieces of weaponry in his home, including rocket-propelled grenades and 40-mm rounds, Seminole County sheriff's Sgt. Ralph Wilson said.


Are you seriously trying to tell me that anti-tank rockets can legally be stored in suburban homes? So if this guy was storing highly dangerous explosives (how many soldiers have died in Iraq because of RPG's?) in his HOUSE, then he HAD to be a criminal.

I really think this is the type of guy gun rights advocates should NOT be supporting.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. I'm not convinced he had any high explosives
Let's give the dead guy some slack and wait until we get some confirmation that any of the explosive devices were not dummies or DEWATs (DEactivated WAr Trophie).

Are you seriously trying to tell me that anti-tank rockets can legally be stored in suburban homes?

Sure, if they contain no high explosive charges.

Several of the more dangerous pieces were taken to a landfill to be detonated.

That could have been a precauitonary measure. Bomb squads frequently detonate items they think might be live only to turn out they contain no explosives.

I really think this is the type of guy gun rights advocates should NOT be supporting.

I'm neither supporting nor conemning him. All we know about the situation is a sketchy AP article. Army weapons experts have been brought in but haven't said anything yet.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Hey slack...
Tell them about your plan to regulate ALL private gun sales...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. That would be off-topic
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 12:51 PM by slackmaster
And my plan has nothing to do with regulating private sales anyway. Thanks for once again confirming that you don't understand it.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Let's see -- the police evacuated the surrounding neighborhood ...
when they found the bombs in his house. The true threat would be if he indeed wa licensed to sell all the weapons in his house. That is obviously not the case, however -- even in the U.S., even in Florida, the law stops short of allowing bombs. And whatever you may have intended to mean by 'weapons,' bombs were indeed among the weapons in the guy's house.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. Wrong.
"That is obviously not the case, however -- even in the U.S., even in Florida, the law stops short of allowing bombs."

They're regulated by the GCA '68 and the NFA '34, but they're quite legal to own if you do the paperwork.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Sorry, Devil's....
but it's very possible that he was legally in possession of those weapons, including the bombs, if he had the appropriate licenses.

After all, people who legally buy "bombs" (actually, they're called "destructive devices") need to be able to buy them from somebody...

I almost bought a Destructive Device (not a bomb, but an anti-tank gun) this past weekend...but I didn't have a big enough vehicle to tow it home with... ;-)
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Are you allowed to store high explosives in suburban bedrooms?
Are hand grenades and mines allowed to be stored without special protective measures in the middle of neighbourhoods? Or do such weapons have to be stored in special bunker like buildings away from residential areas?

If this guy's house caught on fire, the whole neighbourhood could have been killed. Do you REALLY suuport such acts?

Or are you just ignoring the reality and making yourself look like the very kind of "gun nut" that anti-gun people point to when they say guns are dangerous and should be banned?

I personally support gun rights, but what this guy did endangered an entire neighbourhood (probably including children) and could not possibly be legal.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. It depends on the quantity.
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 12:36 PM by DoNotRefill
There are strict regulations for the storage of explosives if the amount of explosives is above a certain quantity. If the amount is below that quantity, it's legal to store in your house.

I store some explosives (like primers, black powder and gunpowder) in my house legally. I take care to make sure that I don't go over a certain weight limit, but that's a safety issue, not because of the law, since what I own is a tiny fragment of what would be necessary to meet the magazine requirement.

It sounds like this guy had some sales samples with him, which is legal. It doesn't sound like he was using his house as his manufacturing plant or even his primary storage facility. And contrary to public opinion, a couple of grenades or antipersonnel mines doesn't constitute a major threat to neighbor's houses...even if there was a fire and they "cooked off" together, it'd just rip up the room. 20 pound propane tanks for grills are much more dangerous in a fire situation, and many houses have them.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. What about RPG rounds?
They contain shaped charge warheads that will blow a hole through a couple of feet of forged steel. And that is assuming the rocket motor doesn't ignite first, firing the grenade through any thin wall like a bullet.

As for "sales samples", the article talked of over 400 weapons including RPG and 40mm grenade rounds, "bouncing betty" mines and Czech hand grenades. This sounds like more than a salesman would carry around.

But lets just assume he had one of each explosive device. If they all went off together you are talking about a much bigger bang than a propane tank, considering a propane tank does not contain high explosives.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. An RPG round uses a shaped charge.....
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 02:00 PM by DoNotRefill
which is, as you know, a very thin sheet of explosives arranged in a cone-type shape that, when detonated, produces a small jet of plasma. It will penetrate 30 cm of armor (for a RPG-7, considerably less for an RPG-2), not "a couple of feet". Additionally, it will penetrate exactly the same distance of any other material it meets. Striking a flimsy material doesn't mean it will penetrate further, it goes as far as the jet of plasma it produces, and that's it. The amount of explosive in the warhead is not great, it doesn't need to be, since the explosive doesn't penetrate anything, it just creates the plasma jet (take the warhead from a RPG, ball it up, set it on the armor, and detonate it, and it will blister the paint off of the armor, but nothing else). On top of that, should the rocket motor ignite, the warhead would detonate on contact with the first remotely solid thing it strikes, like a piece of drywall or even a secured piece of screened porching material. The odds of a RPG rocket fired in an enclosed space punching a hole in a wall and then continuing past that wall are exactly ZERO. It's a physical impossibility.

Oh, BTW, a propane tank contains liquid propane, a highly explosive material. Periodically, some poor slob will get his or her house blown up by them. The kinetic energy released in a 20 pound propane tank that detonates is many times greater than, say, 5 pounds of C-4, RDX, PETN, or Semtex. A relatively large propane tank (say a 250 or 500 pounder used for residential heating purposes) can destroy all structures in a city block. The reason propane has no real military application is because it's very difficult to get into a solid state. "Bang for the buck"-wise, it's highly efficient as a high explosive. For evidence of this, see http://www.acusafe.com/Newsletter/Stories/0600News-AlbertExplosion.htm
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Not true...
which is, as you know, a very thin sheet of explosives arranged in a cone-type shape that, when detonated, produces a small jet of plasma

That is not exactly true. The explosives are wrapped around a cone of metal that becomes the plasma, but that doesn't mean that the force is directed in one direction only. It does produce small amounts of shrapnel from the casing, and even more from any surrounding materials.

It will penetrate 30 cm of armor (for a RPG-7, considerably less for an RPG-2), not "a couple of feet". Additionally, it will penetrate exactly the same distance of any other material it meets.

Not accrding to the US military:

The antipersonnel grenades reach over 1100 meters. Among the production grenades are the PG-7, PG-7M, PG-7N, and PG-7VL antitank grenades with armor penetrability of up to 600 mm of rolled homogeneous steel.
http://call.army.mil/products/NFTF/novdec03/phase/four.htm

600mm equals about two feet, and I can assure you that the effect is NOT the same regardless of the material. The penetration of lighter metals is far greater, and denser metals far lower. Besides, who has even a foot of steel around their house?

On top of that, should the rocket motor ignite, the warhead would detonate on contact with the first remotely solid thing it strikes, like a piece of drywall or even a secured piece of screened porching material.

That would be true, as long as the obstruction was more than ten metres away, which is not likely in a suburban house. Once again from the US military:

have a very short minimal arming range (approximately 10 meters),
http://www.benning.army.mil/OLP/InfantryOnline/issue_22/art_157.htm

The fuse doesn't arm until the rocket has travelled ten metres in order to protect the firer from the effects of the blast. This would mean that if the rocket (travelling at up to 300 metres per second) were to hit a window or light wall, it would probably blast right on through. I have read accounts from Viet Nam where RPG rockets passed right through US soldiers without detonating, so this is not beyond the realms of possibility.

Oh, BTW, a propane tank contains liquid propane, a highly explosive material.

Actually, no it doesn't. It contains propane, which is highly flammable, under pressure, but propane is NOT a high explosive. The term "high explosive" refers to the rate of burn of the material. High explosives burn at tens of thousands of feet per minute. If propane was as explosive as you suggest, you'd never be able to use it for BBQs!

If you refer to the article you linked to, you will see that an 18,000 gallon tank exploded and scatterd metal fragments, including a large piece of metal that killed two firefighters. A 155mm artillery shell containing 8.5kg of TNT has a lethal radius of nearly 30 metres. That means if you are within 30 metres of it you will most likely die. If you had 18,000kg of TNT the lethal radius would be FAR greater, and there is no doubt that in the article you linked, such an explosion would have killed ALL of the firefighters.

Semtex, RDX, PETN and C-4 are far more explosive than TNT, so an equivalent amount of these explosives would have an even larger lethal radius.

Ask a firefighter whether he would rather deal with 20kg of propane or 2kg of Semtex, and I bet you'd find he didn't even need to think about it before he said "propane".
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Heh...
"600mm equals about two feet, and I can assure you that the effect is NOT the same regardless of the material. The penetration of lighter metals is far greater, and denser metals far lower. Besides, who has even a foot of steel around their house?"

My reference material says 30 cm, and is from a dedicated reference book to comblock small arms capability. Plasma, existing out of some kind of containment vessel, quickly dissipates into the atmosphere as the intensity (pressure and heat of the plasma jet) cannot be maintained. This means that once the warhead is detonated, the plasma can go only a certain distance before the lack of containment causes it to revert back to a gaseous state. This is why you don't get "through and through" strikes from a turret strike with a RPG despite the fact that turrets are relatively small. It'll burn through one side, but that dissipates the plasma, and the interior spalling is what causes the casualties.


You'll note that your link makes extensive reference to chicken wire as a defense against RPGs. Chicken wire. "At the time, broadcast news would show photos of jeeps, trucks, and M113s laden with sandbags and encircled with chicken wire. Because the RPG-7 is a shape charge munition, the first encounter it has before meeting the hard skin of the vehicle will set it off. If the initial fuse strikes an object such as a railing or wire and the round goes off, it spares the vehicle’s surface from penetration." Hmmm... Chicken wire. Hardly sounds like some kind of "death ray" if it can be defeated with chicken wire...

"The fuse doesn't arm until the rocket has travelled ten metres in order to protect the firer from the effects of the blast. This would mean that if the rocket (travelling at up to 300 metres per second) were to hit a window or light wall, it would probably blast right on through. I have read accounts from Viet Nam where RPG rockets passed right through US soldiers without detonating, so this is not beyond the realms of possibility."

First, your 300 MPS figure is conditional on it being in the most efficient part of the boost phase. It's not going to be anywhere near the most efficient part of the boost phase if it's ignited in a room (completely ignoring the fact that RPG warheads tend to be stored separately from the motors for the sake of convenience and safety...they're kind of bulky with the rocket attached). Secondly, due to the size of the cross-section of the warhead, you're likely to end up with the warhead stuck in the wall if it doesn't detonate (remember the chicken wire bit?) since in a confined space there's no time/distance for it to get up to maximum boost. The reason the RPG warheads in your example didn't detonate can reasonably be considered to be due to a dud fuse. Also, if it passed completely through the person, how could they identify what it was, and that it wasn't something like a recoilless rifle round? During the Ranger operation in Mogadishu, there was a soldier hit by a dud RPG round. It penetrated his chest, killing the soldier, but didn't exit.

Remember, your article stated that clothes in duffle bags, et cetera, were enough to detonate the round, so entering a human body certainly should cause it to detonate. Also remember that your article cites a 4 meter blast/shrapnel radius. That's hardly a huge area, especially when considering that a standard burst radius for an average comblock fragmentation grenade is 25-30 meters (for the RG-42, RDG-5, and F-1).

"If propane was as explosive as you suggest, you'd never be able to use it for BBQs!"

When I was in the military, I've boiled water for coffee by lighting small bits of C-4 under the pot (Don't try this at home, kids!). It provides a nice, even flame as long as you don't stomp on it. Since I've cooked with it, I guess it's not a high explosive too? ;-) Unconfined propane burns once it reaches something like 1100ppm. In an enclosed space, if the gas reaches a higher concentration and is then suddenly ignited instead of being constantly burned off, it has explosive qualities. If you've ever seen a 20 pound propane tank shot with an APIT round, you'd know what I mean. The problem with propane is that it's heavier than air, so that in a leak situation it can seep into low-lying areas like basements and build up to greater than 1100ppm. Once it hits a spark at a density greater than 1100ppm, kiss the house goodbye. To get back to the thread, which do you think accidentally harms more people annually in the US, propane tank explosions or explosives stored in the house detonating? And before you say Americans don't store explosives in their houses often, remember that there are millions of reloaders who keep both black and gun powder around the place...

"A 155mm artillery shell containing 8.5kg of TNT has a lethal radius of nearly 30 metres. That means if you are within 30 metres of it you will most likely die."

Not true. The lethal radius means how far it can be expected to throw fragments. There are all kinds of variables that affect lethality, like fuzing options, ground conditions, cover, distance from the explosion, et cetera.

"Ask a firefighter whether he would rather deal with 20kg of propane or 2kg of Semtex, and I bet you'd find he didn't even need to think about it before he said "propane".

That would depend on the situation, wouldn't it? A propane explosion is much more dangerous than a propane fire, as a Semtex explosion is much more dangerous than a bit of burning Semtex. Semtex and C-4 are much less inherently dangerous to store than propane for the simple reason that Semtex and C-4 don't leak, they're not under pressure, they can't cause explosions if their storage vessel rusts through, and because they're actually much harder to detonate than propane, which can be set off by any heat source. Set fire to a 20 pound block of C-4 in an enclosed space like a room, and you'll have a merry little fire. Set fire to the contents of a 20 pound propane tank in an enclosed space like a room, and the house will be flattened. It's only with the addition of a proper detonating device (like a blasting cap) that they become more dangerous.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. I wouldn't put it past Florida to try to allow bombs --
excuse me, 'destructive devices,' to be stored and sold in a residential area. But given the evacuation of the neighborhood, I somehow doubt this was the case here. That it might be a possibility is a sad tribute to the idiocy of this country when it comes to guns and destructive devices. True, some businesses need to buy explosives for legitimate purposes -- and they should be bought from legitimate, and strongly-regulated and monitored, businesses that neither store nor sell them in residential areas.

The Second Amendment, and responsible possession of firearms -- one thing. The idiocy of the gunloons is something else: and a clear and present danger to this country.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. damnraddem....
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 12:44 PM by DoNotRefill
a single 20 pound propane tank is much more dangerous in a fire-type situation than a couple or fifty hand grenades (most grenades have explosive charges measured in grams, with almost all of the weight being metal to produce fragments. A typical Comblock grenade like the RDG-5 weighs around 308 grams, and has a bursting charge of around 50 grams. Don't ask me how I know that... ;-) ). Even RPG warheads have a relatively small amount of explosives in them, relying on a "shaped charge" principle to penetrate armor. You'd be hard pressed to find a residential area that doesn't have 20 pound propane tanks all over the place...hell, around here, most convenience stores sell them, no questions asked, no paperwork required.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. But his 'business' is the type ...
that the NRA wants to 'protect.' If the U.S. wants to fight terrorism, the NRA should be at the top of its list.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
45. I just found out some new facts about the cause and manner of death....
let's just say I wouldn't want to be the girlfriend right now...

This looks like a case of "everybody's gotta sleep sometime" if you get my meaning...

Oh, BTW, it also looks like all of the weapons were in fact legally possessed...It'll take a while to get confirmation from the NFRTR, but that's what it looks like...
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. No, just face reality yourself
The guy not only had a home full of guns, but one full of bombs. And he was murdered. A gun in the home is a greater risk than any likely burglar. A home full of guns is an invitation to a burglar -- and murder is a likely result.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. So anyone who owns anything of value is inviting burglary
Sounds like you are blaming the victim for a crime committed against him.

Do you also blame women who get raped for dressing provocatively?
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. The guy sounds like CIA to me.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Hey, who are you?
Carl Rove, or Bob Novack? ;-)
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. In my Hometwon????
Are there any other links to this story with more detail?

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. why are we seeing this in The Guardian?
Haven't any US papers picked this up? :shrug:
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Just checked
The Seminole Herald....nothing there.........

nowhere else I could find either.........
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morebunk Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. You gotta love those Floridians...terrorist Republicans...
We are some example of peace-loving nation.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. _Hmmm - I'd be worried about what they did NOT find in there ???


. . I mean, would you go into a place full of VERY dangerous weapons, kill the guy, and not take something with you ?

- I'd be thinking that someone out there now has a weapon(s) MORE dangerous than the ones the authorities discovered.

Scary thought indeed.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. Oh, no problem.
They'll just follow the trail of the radioactivity and catch those enriched-uranium thieves. ;-)
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
14. why doesn't asscroft arrest pat robertson, for fueling this terrorism?
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 10:18 AM by amen1234
it's time to get broadcast terrorist pat robertson off the airways and into prison.....


Feds Condemn Robertson for Nuke Comment
Sat Oct 11,12:21 PM ET

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - The U.S. State Department has condemned an on-air suggestion by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson that the agency ought to be blown up with a nuclear device.

Robertson, who heads the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network, made the remark while interviewing author Joel Mowbray on "The 700 Club" television program last week. Mowbray wrote a book called "Dangerous Diplomacy: How the State Department Endangers America's Security."

"I read your book. When you get through, you say, 'If I could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom, I think that's the answer.' I mean, you get through this, and you say, 'We've got to blow that thing up,'" Robertson said during the interview.




http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031011/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/robertson_state_department
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. If they really were LIVE explosives, bombs...
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 10:55 AM by sfg25
and he was licensed to manufacture such devices, you would think his business license, federal rules, regulations and city ordnances would prohibit a licensed individual from storing bombs in a residential area. Which probably was the case because 10 homes were evacuated and they had to have been in close proximity.

I highly doubt he would have a permit to manufacutre explosives granted to him if a residential home were his business location.

"Sure, you live in a house with 10 homes in close proximity so here's your explosives manufacturing permit." Just make sure you don't blow up your neighbors.:eyes:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. You are probably correct
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 11:17 AM by slackmaster
Your comments make perfect sense. Federal law concerning storage of live explosives is very strict and I am pretty sure you can't store them in a residential area.

However, I prefer to defer tarring and feathering the guy as a criminal until some hard information that he was actually violating laws is published. In fact we cannot be sure that he actually had any live explosive devices, only that neighbors were evacuated as a precaution in case some of the devices were actually dangerous. If so we will find out. If not the story may wither on the vine due to lack of interesting content.

Stories like this often as not turn out to be false alarms.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. Who gives a damn about the guy and whether he was a criminal?
The big story is: live bombs in a residential neighborhood. For that, he deserved to be a criminal, whether or not the law actually criminalizes what he did. However, I just don't believe that what he did was not against the law.

And as noted by another poster, another big story is: something much worse than what the authorities found may have been taken from the house by the murderer.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I'm not convinced he had any live bombs
n/t
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Hey Damnraddem....do you own a propane powered BBQ grill?
If you do, odds are excellent that you have a much larger destructive force sitting on your porch than this guy had in his house....
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. No doubt they'll end up safely in government-sponsored hands
Like those of Otto Reich's friend Orlando Bosch, for instance.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. Bombs don't kill people ~ people kill people.
Oops. :shrug:
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Well, I HAVE seen people explode ...
but as bad as it was, it just wasn't up to the standards of a good bomb. ;-)
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
34. Ah those law-abiding gun lovers
Is there any earthly reason why we should not have strict gun control?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. We have strict gun control
So far nobody has presented any credible evidence that the murder victim was in violation of any laws.
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