Computer Experts Fear Recall Voter Fraud

[arcos]

Computer Experts Fear Recall Voter Fraud

Punch-card ballots from Tuesday's historic recall election are sure to get a going-over by political activists, but some computer scientists think touch-screen voting machines deserve just as much scrutiny.

While punch-card ballots caused headaches for Florida election officials with their "hanging" and "pregnant" chads, 10 percent of the touch-screen machines in California don't produce paper printouts. And no printouts, the scientists say, would make a legitimate recount impossible.

"You can't do a meaningful recount if the question is about the integrity of the voting machines themselves," said David Dill, a computer science professor at Stanford University. He urged voters in the four counties using touch-screen terminals to vote with absentee ballots.

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=511&ncid=703&e=7&u=/ap/20031006/ap_on_el_gu/recall_recount_trouble

[leftchick]

1. Ha! How the hell would she KNOW if there was fraud?

that is the point......

<snip>Officials from one affected county, Riverside County, have "total confidence" in the electronic system used by its 650,000 voters, said Mischelle Townsend, registrar of voters. On election day the county tests all 4,250 touch-screens for logic and accuracy, confirming that a "yes" vote is recorded as a "yes," Townsend emphasized.


"The machines have always been adjudicated to be reliable and accurate," said Townsend, who has supervised 19 touch-screen elections and five recounts since November 2000. "There's never been a single incident of what the scientists fear."
Yada, Yada, Yada....


don't forget to rate the article at the bottom a 5!

[TahitiNut]

12. "It keeps the elephants away."

Walking through the neighborhood park one day, I came upon a man sitting on a bench who was ripping small bits off a newspaper and flinging them into the air. The park was littered with these small bits of newspaper.
I asked him, "Why are you doing this?"
"It keeps the elephants away," he replied.
Bemused by his answer, I noted "But there are no elephants anywhere around here."
"See? It works!" he attested.

Ms. Townsend, apparently insufficiently familiar with computer technology, is "keeping the elephants away." There's almost no possible way any superficial "black box" test of such devices would ever detect the kinds of malfunctions, vulnerabilities, or overt frauds to which they might be susceptible.

[shirlden]

2. This election will have a lot of eyes

The slightest hint of error is going to be pounced on by hundreds.


:kick:

[Flubadubya]

18. This total rethug recall...

is shaping up to be an out-and-out fiasco. In one respect I hope the thing doesn't become an awful kettle of fish, but in another respect I hope it does if it brings attention to the voting fraud issue. Better now than in 2004 general election. Sorry Californians, but everything always happens there first, right?

[mediaman007]

30. This election is the perfect place to evaluate these

machines. Let's hope that there is a thorough evaluation of these machines. These elections should have paper trails. If a company can't provide this, they should not be certified for use in elections.

[RogueTrooper]

3. Don't forget to vote for this article

and keep it at the top.

[teryang]

4. If 10 percent don't produce printouts...

...how is a recount or audit possible? It is the contemporaneous production of a printout that makes a recount possible. Printing out "one percent" later is meaningless.

If state statutes provide procedures for protests, recounts, challenges, etc., and the diebold machines do not provide that capability then they violate due process and the Democratic party should have gotten a permanent injunction restraining their use.

[Dover]

5. The Democratic Party doesn't seem to care one bit.

And THAT is the most suspicious thing of all.

[Matilda]

11. That really amazes me too.

I believe many DUers have sent through the BBV info to their representatives, but I haven't heard of any reaction from Capitol Hill. It's very puzzling, because even someone as computer-illiterate as me can see how easily it can be manipulated. After 2000, they should be moving heaven and earth to make sure it can never happen again.

The Democrats seem to be walking towards extinction with their eyes wide open.

[Cocoa]

15. keep your eyes open for Rush Holt's bill

At least 40 democrats, led by Rush Holt of NJ, have signed onto a bill that would require voter-verified paper ballots, which a lot of the activists consider to be a good solution.

[sandnsea]

27. Here we go again

This was just posted in LBN 2 days ago.

"DNC endorses voter verified audit trail"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=149893

And HR 2239 is being led by House Democrats.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/fair_elections.asp

[loyalsister]

29. Mine does

My county clerk went out there to observe the election. Wanted to check out the equiptment in action before buying any for our voting purposes.
Something that can be overlooked, is that if there is no programming code resident on computers, they cannot be reprogrammed. There isn't on those at the voting booths. They are basically like ATM machines. They accept only input not programming. There may be more room for things to go right than some might think.

[stickdog]

31. Anything that can be programmed can be reprogrammed.

You can even stick an easter egg into the hardware itself.

Or the compiler can insert nefarious code (like an easter egg) into the approved code (not that anyone has actually approved this code in any meaningful way) at the time the code is compiled.

A user verified paper ballot of which truly randomly selected machines and races from every precinct have their vote totals confimed against the paper ballot (with the paper ballot "winning" if there is any dispute in the count) is the only these machines can used with any level of certainty that they are counting votes correctly.

[hedda_foil]

6. Whoops! Great minds think alike. I just duped this accidentally.

Please rate the article a "5" and keep this thread kicked.

[Wednesdays]

7. Done.

:kick:

[barbaraann]

9. Me, too.

I posted it on GD.

[ninkasi]

8. Very important

to keep this issue in the news. Just voted, to add another kick.

[barbaraann]

10. It's the top-rated story on Yahoo!!!

n/t

[wryter2000]

13. California

If the debacle of our recall gets people aware of the problem, then it will have had a benefit. We can live with the musclehead for a few years. We've had dumb actors as governor before. But I'm afraid the country won't survive another four years of Whistle Ass.

[Fridays Child]

14. 5

[leftchick]

16. rate this story!

:kick:

[Pastiche423]

17. Done

Rating stands at 4.46.

[barbaraann]

19. Tin foil hat time.

The possibility of voting machine problems is getting publicity at the same time Arnold is slipping. Do you suppose that the BFEE knows the recall will fail and use voting machine issues to challenge the vote in court? Do you suppose that they could manage to somehow get votes from certain areas where the vote went Dem thrown out or get the election invalidated?

I'm thinking that Arnold is the chosen one for installing fascism in this country on a national level and that they will stop at nothing to get him elected Governor of California, replicating the pattern they used with Reagan.

Whatever happens, I don't think that the GOP will fade into the sunset if they lose on this one.

[Matilda]

33. And after California, what then?

If they could get Bush elected to the White House, they could sure
do it with Arnie too. God forbid!

[spinbaby]

20. What's with yahoo?

That story is rated 4.46 with 443 votes but appears nowhere on the top stories page:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index&cid=1761

[barbaraann]

23. It was there earlier!

That's very strange.

[WillyT]

25. It's At #5 As Of Now...

Link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index&cid=1760

Plus, here's the same story at MSNBC with an internet poll, and a link to the July 24th story about concerns with Diebold ala John Hopkins (which I missed somehow, LOL).

Link: http://www.msnbc.com/news/976511.asp?0cv=CA01

:hi:

[BenFranklinUSA]

21. Have Davis' Lawyers Filed For A Recount Yet?

;)

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nottingham]

22. Great for the Stanford Computer Science Professor

He Knows all the Computer Science in the Nation KNOW!

Computer Voting machined are BOGUS

:bounce:

[laylah]

26. 5

and a :kick:

[4dog]

28. kick

[stickdog]

32. Kick (NT)