(MI) Bill requires ultrasound prior to an abortion -- (They're baaaack!)

[Bozita]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/politics/0505/30/B01-197414.htm

Monday, May 30, 2005

Bill requires ultrasound prior to an abortion

State Senate takes up measure, but the governor doesn't support version.

By Gary Heinlein / The Detroit News



LANSING -- All women seeking abortions would be required to submit to ultrasound procedures under legislation being taken up this week in the state Senate.

The bill, pushed by abortion opponents, is the latest test of lawmakers' personal beliefs on the sensitive issue. It passed the House on a 69-37 vote last week.

Ultrasound would become an additional mandate in Michigan's informed consent law, which requires women considering abortions to receive medically accurate information before ending their pregnancies. A diagnostic technique, ultrasound produces a fuzzy, TV-like image of the fetus inside the mother's womb.

Doctors and nurses would have to offer abortion seekers the opportunity to view these images. The expectant mothers, however, would not be required to look at them.

more...

[lolly]

1. Cost?

I seem to remember my ultrasound sessions costing about 175.00 each (? Insurance paid; I may be off).

Who is going to pay for these?

[Bozita]

2. Why not full body MRIs?

They're not really abortions when only the wealthy can afford them.

[barb162]

3. that's the first thing I thought, adding a lot more money to the procedure

[MidwestTransplant]

6. Let the legislators pick up the cost. By that I don't meant the taxpayers

It's their conviction after all. Certainly they wouldn't mind footing the bill.

[margaritamama]

37. I'm sure

the anti-abortion population would be happy to pick up the bill! HA! That's how they usually work it...So pro life until someone actually needs something.

[Roland99]

8. I guess these "morally righteous" want a return to back-alley abortions

And, besides, who's going to pay for these children or the health costs of the women who have complications from extended labor or childbirth?

[Shallah Kali]

18. eliminating abortion serves 2 purposes - keep the poor impoverished

plus provide newborns for adoption to those who can't have their own. I have heard people rant about abortion saying why don't they have the baby and put it up for adoption I have a sister/cousin/friend who has been waiting years for a newborn. Now I am adopted and feel blessed to have had the adoptive parents I got but this attitude these others have horrify me! It reduces women to broodmares.

[Demit]

4. There's a lot of good (horrifying) info in that item, but look at this--

"Should this bill pass, for the first time the Michigan Legislature will mandate the use of a medically unnecessary procedure."

FORCE women to do something that's medically unnecessary. I doubt it will pass, and I'm glad the governor is outspoken about being against it. But look at the crazy lengths these patriarchs want to go to!

[LeighAnn]

5. What's the point of this?

This is just another money-maker for the establishment. I can't see one good reason to make them do this.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

14. "another money-maker for the establishment"

For the current establishment, that's a big plus. Who cares if it makes a woman's right to an abortion more of a pain in the ass? So what if they play into the hands of the fundy assholes who want to make women feel guilty about considering abortion?

It's all about the $$$.
:grr:

[jmowreader]

33. There's a more sinister intent here

What's an abortion cost? Five hundred? Six hundred? I know they're not inexpensive.

Now, what's an ultrasound cost? Someone upthread said $175. It's 2005; let's assume they cost $200 each.

Add a $200 ultrasound to a $600 abortion and suddenly you've turned what for many women is a barely-affordable procedure into what will be for those same women a completely unattainable procedure.

Look, we all know rich women who have discreet doctors will continue to have their "menstrual extractions" or whatever the hell you call an abortion when you don't want (or can't have, if the Religious Wrong gets its way) "abortion" in your medical records. They had them before Roe v. Wade--the example I keep using is when Mrs. Wormer "vacationed in the tropics" after the Delta toga party in Animal House. The whole object of these kinds of laws is to stop abortion among the poor.

Something occurs to me...all science fiction dystopias rely on sexual control as a means of controlling the population. How dystopic are we getting?

[HockeyMom]

7. Had an ultrasound at 5 weeks

with an ectopic pg. Nothing there to see except a big bloody mess. Sorry, no little "baby". If you are talkin about an early pg (embryo), you will see nothing. At 6 weeks, although the Right to Life LIES about this and show OLDER fetus, it doesn't resemble a "baby" in any shape or form.

[uppityperson]

9. tiny grasping hands and all?

I had a friend encounter some of these people, they gave her a 6 month fetus model and told her it was what her "unborn baby" looked liked at 6 weeks (6 weeks after LMP=3 week embryo). She waited until she was 18 wks before getting her abortion. She is still royally pissed, 20+ yrs later.

[LizMoonstar]

11. Planned Parenthood does ultrasound when using RU-486

It's part of the safety procedure, I was told, and they don't show you unless you ask. I get the impression it's to prevent the sort of thing that happened to my mom - she's had 2 D&Cs for the purpose, but was only actually pregnant one of those times. I believe they implied that if I was not in fact pregnant (and implanted and all, things that you can't see from a blood test), the medications would be a pointless trauma to the body.

However, I don't know any more than that about it as legit science; if this is, as it appears, an attempt to talk people out of abortion, that's silly. In the words of the Dead Kennedys (Will the Fetus Be Aborted?):

Kathy had two
Kids already
And an abortion
Is what she chose
Christian showed her
A bloody fetus
She said "That's fine
I'll have one of those."

lyrics at this link, but they're not hard to find through Google:
http://www.letssingit.com/?http://www.letssingit.com/dead-kennedys-will-the-fetus-be-aborted-qrvjv16.html

[Changenow]

10. Interesting bias, "expectant mothers"

aren't they also pregnant women?

[Shallah Kali]

13. it's all about the fetus. Women are mere walking wombs to host 'em

I recall reading that one RW politician wrote legislation to give medical care to poor pregnant women didn't refer to the women as the patients but as aid for the fetus.

[sarcasmo]

12. My state makes me sick to my stomach. What will they go after next

when Abortion rights groups have nothing else to go after.

[Shallah Kali]

15. I figure their next goal will be mandated reproduction

Instead of China where they require familes to limit their kids they will require a certain number of offspring or else. This article is the reason why I believe this is really on their Christian Taliban wishlist:



Deliberate Childlessness: Moral Rebellion With a New Face
Married couples who choose to be childless are revolting against God's design.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/167/story_16748_1.html


Poll on that page:
Is it OK for married couples to be "childless by choice"?

Yes 69%

No 31%

[AirAmFan]

19. A shared 'culture of ritual misogyny' unites Chinese bureaucrats

and American ultra-right 'Christian' fundamentalists.

[Gormy Cuss]

38. Childless equals Godless

We all know that Godless is unAmerican.

Paging Margaret Atwood.....

[Lars39]

16. Ultrasounds latest weapon in battle for & against abortion

http://tinyurl.com/dxhag

By Mark O'Keefe
___Religion News Service
___WASHINGTON (RNS)--Pregnant and distressed, 23-year-old Rebekah Nancarrow walked in to a faith-based pregnancy center in Dallas "95 percent certain I was going to have an abortion."
___What turned her around was seeing an ultrasound. "She was moving, she was kicking, she had legs," said Nancarrow, who said she promised on the spot, "I will take care of you."

PHYSICIAN Rhonda Kendrick (left), sonographer Kathy Lewandoski (center) and nurse Anne Michael of the Rockville Pregnancy Center in Rockville, Md., conduct an ultrasound exam while a patient reviews images of fetuses similar in age to the one she is carrying. (Susanna Robb/RNS Photo)

___Such dramatic decisions thrill anti-abortion activists, who see detailed ultrasound images as a high-tech way to change minds about abortion. But abortion-rights groups oppose the practice, arguing that ultrasound becomes a manipulative weapon when put in the hands of religious activists trying to persuade pregnant, vulnerable women.

___The two sides are clashing over a $3 million bill, backed mostly by Republicans, that would provide up to half the cost of ultrasound equipment, which ranges from $20,000 to more than $100,000. The money would go only to non-profit centers that do not charge for services. The vast majority of pregnancy centers that fit this description oppose abortion.

___A similar bill went nowhere last year, but its chances are somewhat improved by Republicans controlling Congress.

More....http://tinyurl.com/dxhag

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I couldn't find the article at the Southern Baptist site, but they are pushing this, raising money to buy the machines, too.

[applegrove]

17. Doesn't any sort of scanning harm the fetus a little? Aren't they supposed

to be rare? What about those drug addicted monsters who do crap while they are pregnant and don't want the baby but will keep it for the money?

[no_hypocrisy]

20. Why stop there? Why not amniocentesis? Naming the baby?

[truthisfreedom]

21. let them ultrasound the babies being carried in Iraq. let them see the

limbless, headless forms of the depleted uranium babies they've created.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnester]

23. Thank god I cannot have more children. so I get to become an "Aunt"

Instead of a handmaiden. Or else I get sent to a work camp/executed as an example because my womb is useless.

:sarcasm:

Michigan, stay OUT of the womb business dammit!

[burythehatchet]

24. I wish I had been pregnant

when I couldn't get Kaiser Permanente to do an MRI of my knee for 2 YEARS!!

[elehhhhna]

25. Let's be fair & balanced:

Thes women should also get a spreadsheet showing the cost in time & money, etc.of bearing & raising a child.

[EFerrari]

26. These b@stards are killing and compromising life all over the

world and they don't give a damn about abortion.

Shame, shame, SHAME ON YOU, MENDACITYCENTRAL.

[grumpy old fart]

27. How about requiring lawmakers to view pics like THIS before voting for...

more money for war.

http://mindprod.com/iraq.html

[noonwitch]

28. It will be vetoed

I don't know if the GOP has the votes to override it. If they don't, they'll make it a ballot initiative eventually.

[BrightKnight]

29. Transvaginal ultrasound

Don't they usually use transvaginal ultrasound for very early pregnancies? A state mandated vaginal probe is a bit too invasive in my opinion.

[Megahurtz]

30. Oh give me a

fucking break. This just infuriates me.:grr:
The answer is simple. They just need to stay out of everyone's pants.

[paineinthearse]

31. 4 seats difference?

Didn't I read in a recent John Edwards that the Michigan House has a rethug/dem difference of only 4 seats? If this is true, it appears many of the dems are dinos.

[Strawman]

32. What's next?

Everyone has to watch Tom Coburn's slide show (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/26/AR2005052601747.html) before purchasing any form of birth control at their local pharmacy?

Luckily, the Governor will certainly veto this.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. Say what? Waste of medical resources! Will be struck down on appeal

[Brooklyn Michael]

35. Gov't sanctioned guilt trips....

....just what any woman facing a difficult decision needs.

And I thought it was supposed to be Liberals who had the annoying habit of telling people what was best for them....?

[livinginphotographs]

36. Gee, what could be the reason behind this?

:sarcasm:

Someone else on DU made a great point today, about trusting doctors to be doctors as opposed to trusting politicians to be doctors.

[BrightKnight]

39. Will the state be funding this?

If the state is going to mandate unnecessary vaginal probes it aught to at least pay for them. Poor women that can not afford to get probed will not pe permitted to have safe legal abortions.

Scarce medical resources should be allocated where they are actually needed!

The legislators behind this should go probe themselves!

[Lars39]

40. Southern Baptists' Psalm 139 Project

http://tinyurl.com/5bojs


<snip>
There are many ways to be a Champion for Life, not the least of which is providing a woman in a crisis pregnancy a “window” into the world of the child she is carrying. This is the intent of the Psalm 139 Project—to aid pregnancy care centers in securing ultrasound machines.

We need your help in outfitting centers with ultrasound machines.

100 percent of the gifts received at the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission for the Psalm 139 Project will go to evangelistically oriented centers. Please send your tax-deductible gifts to the “Psalm 139 Project,” c/o ERLC, 901 Commerce St., Nashville, TN 37203. An acknowledgment and proper accounting of your gift will be provided. Contact the ERLC with your questions.

“Increased access to ultrasound technology promises to reduce teenage pregnancies and abortions and to provide women with the information and support to make an informed decision,” Richard says. “From my own statistics showing a 90% decreased rate of abortion with the use of ultrasound, this is an extremely effective means of reducing crisis pregnancies and changing hearts.”

Simply put, it’s all about saving lives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What do you want to bet that federal funds will be turned over to this project for ultrasound machines?